IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-08-20
⏴ go to previous day
00:53:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
01:32:55 *** MTsPonyZzZzZZ has joined #openttd
01:32:55 *** MTsPonyZzZzZZ is now known as MTsPony
02:45:22 *** KWKdesign has joined #openttd
03:49:36 *** MTsPony is now known as Guest1322
03:49:36 *** MTsPonyZzZzZZ has joined #openttd
03:49:36 *** MTsPonyZzZzZZ is now known as MTsPony
03:52:37 *** MTsPony is now known as Guest1323
03:52:37 *** MTsPony has joined #openttd
04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
06:24:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
06:26:04 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
07:32:24 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
07:53:06 <Eddi|zuHause> 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 002 002 036 Pre-fail Always FAILING_NOW 4045
08:10:56 *** Pikkaphone has joined #openttd
08:12:01 *** Midnightmyth has joined #openttd
08:18:39 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd
08:25:04 *** Nemoder has joined #openttd
08:27:43 <Nemoder> Is there any possibility of openttd being packaged for steam? All I can find searching is very old threads about issues with the GPL but the are at least a couple GPL games on steam already
08:28:27 <Nemoder> not something the community wants or some other reason?
08:29:28 <Eddi|zuHause> even if GPL was possible, it'd be too much hassle, expecially with issuing updates
08:31:17 <Nemoder> heh I always felt that was the case with linux distributions packaging it
08:31:23 <Pikkaphone> although since it is gpl, you could always fork openttd for steam yourself. :) If indeed a gpl project can meet valve's requirements
08:32:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Nemoder: the difference is that the linux distributions pull this stuff themselves, the developers don't have to push it
08:33:12 <peter1138> More importantly, can Valve meet the GPL's requirements.
08:33:45 <Nemoder> I was looking at Steel Storm (q2 engine) and Evolution RTS (SprintRTS) but perhaps they are in gray water themselves
08:35:09 <Pikkaphone> I'm not sure what openttd would gain from being on steam
08:35:42 <Nemoder> just publicity from friends seeing what their friends are playing i suppose
08:35:49 <peter1138> OpenTTD has steam in it :D
08:35:58 <planetmaker> oh, it might gain some more downloads and exposure to gamers
08:36:11 <peter1138> You can do that by setting up a launcher shortcut in steam :p
08:36:19 <planetmaker> but the biggest step is that *someone* always has to take care to upload releases also to steam and actually maintain that
08:36:41 <planetmaker> in principle I do believe it would be a good thing. Practically it's tedious
08:36:53 <V453000> does steam allow open source licensing?
08:37:16 <Nemoder> I didn't used to think so until I started seeing GPL games appear
08:37:38 <peter1138> V453000, I don't think it cares, however I don't think it has a way to make the source available, or otherwise meet GPL requirements.
08:37:48 <planetmaker> I think they don't care much about the license
08:37:58 <peter1138> Pretty much like the Apple app store situation.
08:38:03 <V453000> well if they can link to openttd source, they still have to host the source themselves?
08:38:24 <Pikkaphone> planetmaker: expect a hundred requests for steam-based multiplayer matchmaking, too
08:38:41 <peter1138> Also apparently there's a fee to be on steam.
08:38:59 <peter1138> Yeah, steam api is never going to happen with open source.
08:40:06 <peter1138> Preparing to replace openttd 1.4.2~RC1-0 (using openttd-1.4.2-linux-debian-wheezy-amd64.deb) ...
08:40:07 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: they have to host the source themselves, linking does not suffice for GPL
08:40:21 <Eddi|zuHause> (in a strict sense)
08:40:35 <Nemoder> I dont think you have to host it, just provide it when requested
08:41:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Nemoder: no, that only applies when you ship physical disks with a written permit
08:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Nemoder: if you offer download, you must offer the source as equivalent download
08:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Nemoder: since you cannot make a written offer with a download
08:41:45 <peter1138> god fucking damn that start up game is fucking noisy
08:42:07 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: replace it with the nightly title game :p
08:42:17 <planetmaker> yeah... 1.4.x has a *very busy* starting screen
08:42:49 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the next voting round needs to come with the sounds for the first few seconds after startup :)
08:43:25 <Eddi|zuHause> with fancy html5 tags and stuff :)
08:44:04 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, so still nobody will hear it :p
08:44:12 <planetmaker> sure Eddi|zuHause :) (I'm awaiting your web template for that :P )
08:44:51 <Nemoder> heh, trying to configure all the mod options in the gui while listening to that mess was painful
08:44:54 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: can't be that difficult :=)
08:45:08 <Pikkaphone> perhaps we just need a "mute sounds in menu game" advanced option. Or whatever advanced options are called these days.
08:45:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Nemoder: most modern keyboards come with a "mute" button :)
08:45:31 <Nemoder> I didn't want to mute my voice app or music player
08:46:04 <planetmaker> Pikkaphone, even when they contain (nearly) all settings, they're still advanced ;) :P
08:46:22 <Eddi|zuHause> in really fancy environments (*cough* pulseaudio *cough*) you can mute individual apps
08:47:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't seriously used modern windows in ages
08:48:00 <Eddi|zuHause> at least not with anything involving sounds and stuff
08:48:06 <peter1138> Although on Linux I remapped my mute + volume buttons to be play/pause and prev/next track buttons.
08:48:24 <peter1138> Cos they were more useful :S
08:48:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i have those buttons on my keyboard as well
08:48:44 <peter1138> Yeah. Mine doesn't.
08:49:21 <peter1138> Still not bothered to remap the calculator button, heh.
08:49:33 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's totally weird, on my previous keyboard they were in the opposite place. so now i constantly hit start/stop when i want volume down and stuff...
08:50:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and currently i can't hear music, because it's on the failing disk and causes too many wa cycles to produce a continous stream :(
08:51:37 <peter1138> That's a problem with massive drives... so much stuff to backup or move around.
08:51:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it's even the smallest drive i have...
08:51:57 <Eddi|zuHause> and also the newest
08:52:05 <peter1138> Hmm, my smallest is the SSD.
08:52:09 <Eddi|zuHause> fucking seagate...
08:52:19 <Eddi|zuHause> well, except for the SSD
08:52:38 <peter1138> ... which is still several times larger than some of the server drives in use at jbex.
08:52:41 <Eddi|zuHause> my SSD is 128GB, this drive is 250GB
08:53:52 <Eddi|zuHause> but at the rate it's copying right now it'll barely be done when my just ordered disks arrive in 2 days :p
08:56:34 <Eddi|zuHause> 80% wa... i'm surprised the system is even reacting to my input :p
09:04:29 <V453000> mechanical keyboards ftw
09:04:39 <__ln__> so.... how will the independent Scotland be implemented in OTTD?
09:05:06 <Eddi|zuHause> did they make the referendum yet?
09:05:36 <planetmaker> __ln__, just like the Euro... introducing a new currency in 2015
09:06:08 <planetmaker> and probably adding yet-another English translation :D
09:08:30 <Pikkaphone> planetmaker : so why is there no auto changeover from pounds to dollars in 1966 for the Australians? Feeture request!
09:09:20 <Eddi|zuHause> the game also misses half a dozen german currencies :p
09:09:55 <V453000> paying with beer was never official Eddi
09:10:16 <planetmaker> Pikkaphone, good question :)
09:10:32 <Eddi|zuHause> no, but especially the east germans struggled a long time with how to actually name their currency
09:10:56 <Eddi|zuHause> they started with DM, then it was MDN, and then they ended up with just M
09:11:09 <V453000> while it should have been B all the time
09:11:28 <planetmaker> B wie Blechmark? Yeah :P
09:11:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i know Biermarken
09:11:52 <V453000> actually I dont know why do we use czk instead of beer, everybody buys beer for it anyway
09:12:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i had a Biermarke just a few weeks ago
09:12:17 <V453000> at least it would make decisions like "pay rent or have 100 beers" easier
09:12:55 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: drinkable currency makes for one epic deflation :p
09:14:41 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: but think of the consequences. making beer currency would mean all breweries except for a handful of state certified ones become illegal
09:14:53 <Pikkaphone> that's why you use bottlecaps
09:15:13 <Pikkaphone> drinking makes you richer
09:15:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikkaphone: you can get money for empty bottles :)
09:16:23 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany it's currently 8¢ or 15¢ for glass bottles, and 25¢ for plastic bottles and cans
09:17:52 <Eddi|zuHause> it's kinda bizarre, you get more for returning throwaway bottles than reusable bottles
09:18:28 <Pikkaphone> because they want to discourage throwing them away
09:18:59 <Eddi|zuHause> well the official reason was to reduce the number of produced throwaway bottles
09:19:23 <Eddi|zuHause> which i don't know whether they succeeded, but beer cans almost completely disappeared
09:20:35 <Eddi|zuHause> on the flip side they created all this overhead for collecting the empty bottles/cans
09:20:49 <Pikkaphone> glass bottles are heavy, so they're environmentally unfriendly due to
09:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause> because now the shops are responsible for that instead of the garbage collectors
09:20:59 <Pikkaphone> transport costs etc
09:21:38 <Pikkaphone> we should all just drink tap water
09:21:55 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody drinks tap water in germany
09:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> copying 150k files at 2 files per minute, how long will that last? :p
09:38:28 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
09:40:40 <Pikkaphone> seven and a half weeks
09:41:33 <Pikkaphone> cheap at half the price
09:43:06 <Eddi|zuHause> oh it jumped from 135 to 402
09:55:45 <Eddi|zuHause> so, california gets rain about every 5 years?
10:04:02 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd
10:10:06 *** zeknurn has joined #openttd
10:11:46 *** looptrooper has joined #openttd
10:19:34 *** zeknurn has joined #openttd
10:39:51 *** DerLoetkolben has joined #openttd
10:40:25 <DerLoetkolben> Addition to yesterday: it works like a charm with the latest trunk
10:43:31 *** zeknurn has joined #openttd
10:55:16 *** trendynick has joined #openttd
11:16:28 *** Pikkaphone has joined #openttd
11:16:39 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
11:32:18 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest1363
11:32:19 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
11:36:02 *** Klanticus has joined #openttd
12:09:32 *** KWKdesign has joined #openttd
12:13:31 <Eddi|zuHause> @base 10 16 85900656661
12:13:31 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 1400140015
12:37:50 <Eddi|zuHause> @base 10 16 253965711205637
12:37:50 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: E6FB00006505
12:38:11 <Eddi|zuHause> @base 16 10 E6FB
12:38:28 <Eddi|zuHause> @base 16 10 6505
12:46:59 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, so apparently i do have an installation of TTO, with files dated 20.10.1994
12:48:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and savegames dated 1999/2000/2001
12:52:38 *** zeknurn has joined #openttd
12:53:59 *** SylvieLorxu has joined #openttd
12:55:27 <Eddi|zuHause> dbg: [misc] German Townnames are buggy (-1317974696) <-- someone should possibly reimplement the original town name generator :p
12:56:46 <Eddi|zuHause> oh yeah, that was the savegame where i made a one-way network without one-way signals :p
12:58:20 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, which german townname set is that?
12:58:38 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: this is a TTO savegame
12:59:29 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd has always issued this warning also for TTD savegames, because the town name generators do not match
13:10:10 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: TTO style
13:19:23 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, you know how it goes with patches :P
13:25:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. i don't finish them.
13:52:13 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i have a bunch of midi files, and some of them fail to set instruments correctly... but i do remember them playing properly in the (distant) past
14:26:56 <ATS63> without alt clt c, is it possible to starve/kill off an industry? Building in the way of my railway yo
14:28:14 <Pinkbeast> ATS63: Not at all reliably. Tunnel under it? :-/
14:31:45 <Eddi|zuHause> ATS63: unserved industries may close after some years, but a newgrf may prevent this
14:35:54 <ATS63> Yea, unservicing doesn't seem to always work. Yet not delivering cargo often enough does. Weird
14:38:00 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a protected period of like 5 years and after that it is random
14:43:50 <ATS63> o right. That makes sense
14:47:47 <Eddi|zuHause> at least in TTO, unstable economy actually meant it closes serviced industries
14:47:58 <Eddi|zuHause> in OpenTTD it doesn't do that
14:49:06 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
14:49:06 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
15:02:41 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
15:30:02 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
15:47:16 *** Progman has joined #openttd
15:54:40 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
15:58:21 *** Sheogorath has joined #openttd
15:58:55 <Sheogorath> is it posible to integrate IRC to openTTD?
15:59:23 <Sheogorath> We started our IRC network and now starting an OpenTTD server
15:59:25 <planetmaker> yes. OpenTTD features an admin port
15:59:40 <planetmaker> you can use that to create a 2-way bridge
15:59:41 <Sheogorath> I've seen that there is ab bot
15:59:55 <planetmaker> One implementation for that is soap, a plug-in for supybot
16:01:56 <Sheogorath> that I ws searching for :)
16:02:22 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
16:02:38 *** JerikTelorian has joined #openttd
16:09:02 <Sheogorath> Is it possible to link ingamechat and channel, too?
16:12:47 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be chat message forwarding in there somewhere
16:13:01 *** shirish has joined #openttd
16:13:45 <planetmaker> Sheogorath, yes, it (can) link(s) both ways
16:14:25 <planetmaker> you can watch that in action at the #openttdcoop servers or at the #/r/openttd reddit servers
16:21:59 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd
16:31:45 *** Midnightmyth has joined #openttd
16:47:10 *** DerLoetkolben has joined #openttd
16:48:56 <DerLoetkolben> It seems like Xorg is using most of the CPU when playing OpenTTD, does anybody have an idea why ?
16:50:18 <Alberth> lots of moving pictures?
16:50:29 <Alberth> or perhaps not enough trains and boats in the game :p
16:50:52 <Rubidium> maybe because Xorg is emulating thing
16:52:19 <Rubidium> for example, older graphics cards have support for certain things like animation via changing the palette, but newer ones do not have that anymore in the hardware. As a result the very old software implementation that was implemented because very very old cheap graphics card did not have that feature are now again used because your new graphics card does not have the feature either
16:53:16 <Rubidium> since OpenTTD based on there mid 1990s technology, it is not easy/trivial/efficient to straight migrate it to newer methods
16:53:44 <Rubidium> mostly because we would need new graphics and as a result lose all backward compatibility with graphics, NewGRFs and the likes
16:56:26 <frosch123> DerLoetkolben: try a nightly version, and see whether it makes a difference
16:57:09 <DerLoetkolben> i'm playing right off the SVN tree
16:57:25 <Rubidium> what video driver is used?
16:57:30 <Rubidium> might it be allegro?
16:58:14 <DerLoetkolben> xf86-video-radeon directly from GIT
16:58:27 <DerLoetkolben> allegro isn't installed
17:07:02 <Alberth> openttd video driver was intended, most likely
17:07:52 <DerLoetkolben> Alberth: Sorry it's SDL
17:11:41 <frosch123> try the "support8bpp" setting in openttd.cfg then
17:12:00 <frosch123> it should default to "none", but you can also try "system" and "hardware"
17:15:11 <DerLoetkolben> frosch123: Both didn't change a thing
17:15:43 <frosch123> then you can also try command line option "-b 8bpp-optimized"
17:15:45 <Alberth> you modified and saved without openttd running right? ending openttd overwrites the cfg file
17:18:30 <DerLoetkolben> frosch123 : openttd cannot find the 8bpp-optimized blitter
17:20:02 <frosch123> really, how is that possible, openttd --help should list it
17:20:50 <DerLoetkolben> --help still lists it
17:21:04 <frosch123> well, if you did not make a simple typo, i have no idea
17:21:30 <DerLoetkolben> triple checked on the spelling
17:45:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26752 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2014-08-20 17:45:28 UTC)
17:45:36 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:37 <DorpsGek> korean - 1 changes by telk5093
18:15:26 *** TrueBrain_ has joined #openttd
18:15:40 *** TrueBrain_ is now known as TrueBrain
18:18:45 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:27:14 <andythenorth> did anyone figure out how liveries should be done in newgrf?
18:27:32 <andythenorth> all in the buy menu?
18:33:35 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
18:34:23 <Alberth> find a random newgrf with liveries?
18:34:56 <andythenorth> I wondered if there was an accepted answer
18:35:01 <andythenorth> I have my own: don’t bother
18:35:37 * Alberth likes the automagic solution by nuts
18:35:41 <andythenorth> so needs a way to provide all the liveries
18:37:52 <Alberth> vehicle set design is not the same as "draw every real bus/train/ship you can find", in my view
18:38:06 <Alberth> you probably share that opinion :)
18:38:10 <planetmaker> an extremely common fallacy
18:38:27 <Rubidium> Alberth: it could be, but then only allow *one* bus of that drawn instance
18:39:30 <Alberth> nah, the exact same number as driving around in city/country X :p
18:39:35 <Rubidium> needs higher dpi images though, otherwise you can't read the license plate
18:40:18 <Alberth> I really wonder about the "trains in nml" thread what they are going to do with the zillion vehicle sprites :)
18:40:46 <Alberth> on the other hand, it would be quite easy to make a "steam forever" newgrf
18:42:49 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd
18:44:22 <andythenorth> I guess there’s nothing wrong with making an enthusiast’s set
18:44:27 <andythenorth> it’s not something I’d do
18:44:31 <andythenorth> but the game is open
18:45:27 <V453000> with good functionality it could be great
18:45:32 <V453000> just imagine nuts with all engines being steam
18:51:29 <Alberth> V453000: The idea is to make a newgrf for a single railtype for the entire game, ie you have 3-4 newgrfs. With parameters you set when a railtype becomes available and when it disappears. You can customize your game that way
18:56:50 <Alberth> I invented it. So far I haven't seen anyone else mentioning the same idea although I didn't really look for it. Minor issue is that I can't draw :p
18:57:12 <andythenorth> loads of GPL sets out there....
19:00:31 <V453000> the idea isnt bad though :)
19:01:03 <V453000> I was kind of considering it to make NUTS classes parameter-controllable too, but if it just works, it is just fine :P
19:03:06 <Alberth> the unlucky 13 engine is always breaking the steam era in my games
19:05:24 <V453000> use meow -> solved? :)
19:07:53 <Alberth> that works indeed, but it's a bit later iirc
19:08:08 <Alberth> in my last game I switched to the fast double headed engines
19:08:16 <Alberth> I had a lot of distance to cover :)
19:08:32 <Alberth> and lots of cargo due to the gang-ho mode of firs :p
19:09:38 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd
19:10:46 <Alberth> (if you are interested)
19:34:17 <ATS63> Well thats a little better... my big station is now 15 platforms, 175 trains, on maglev 3
19:34:37 <ATS63> 3 different inbound/outbound tracks
19:34:57 <ATS63> Most the mines that feed it are "ultimate" production level
19:39:40 <ATS63> Wonder what'll happen when I upgrade to vac tube
20:30:11 <NGC3982> Does autoclean_novehicles work even if autoclean_companies is set to false?
20:30:21 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz
20:30:34 <NGC3982> I want to autoclean companies without vehicles, and not for any other reason.
20:40:41 <frosch123> you need to enable both
20:41:52 <frosch123> autoclean_companies always must be enabled
20:42:13 <frosch123> then you can enable/disable autoclean_novehicles, autoclean_unprotected and autoclean_protected
20:46:24 <NGC3982> Oh. How do i disable unprotected/protected? Does the config support "false" instead of the default number?
21:15:35 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
21:31:02 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
21:31:28 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd
22:00:52 *** KWKdesign has joined #openttd
22:17:20 *** shirish_ has joined #openttd
22:21:27 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
22:30:48 *** DieWelt has joined #openttd
22:41:54 *** glx is now known as Guest1441
22:41:54 *** KritiK_ has joined #openttd
22:45:28 *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK
22:46:44 *** funnel_ has joined #openttd
22:47:36 *** funnel_ is now known as funnel
23:33:47 *** Midnightmyth has joined #openttd
23:34:45 *** Midnightmyth has joined #openttd
23:37:23 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
