IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-06-18
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06:10:21 <V453000> planetmaker is now officially in the yeti army
06:11:51 <planetmaker> nah, I'm not that slimy! :P
06:12:01 <V453000> is probably the best one
06:12:24 <V453000> fat, lazy, furry, slow with bad coordination but good physical strength
06:13:31 <V453000> probably not going to be furry, dont want one yeti to have 100mb in source size :)
06:14:21 <planetmaker> you just need a furry texture there, I think, no?
06:14:28 <planetmaker> not actually bumpy-furry
06:14:51 <V453000> most likely some displacement yes but idk, will see what skin will they get
06:15:13 <V453000> for now they will probably look rather robotic as that will be their base bone structure
06:15:24 <V453000> the model can be enhanced to look more organic later
06:15:42 <planetmaker> I just got a bit wtf when reading forums. I asked for a savegame. I got a rar archive of the whole openttd folder and like "didn't yet create one, but all is ready and configured to create one"
06:16:12 <planetmaker> I'm unsure on how to reply...
06:16:50 <Supercheese> The stupid thread called "Maclev trains" always bugs me. It's supposed to me Maglev, dangit
06:17:15 <ST2> maybe he rar'd the game running... hoping was included too :)
06:17:38 <planetmaker> you're right, Supercheese. Fixed title
06:17:53 <Supercheese> whew, much improved :)
06:17:57 <V453000> I still think forum style of expressing self makes something like a square root of everybodys IQ
06:18:06 <V453000> "everybody" except some
06:20:01 <planetmaker> V453000, alberth is right, the higher crops make it look somewhat more interesting
06:20:14 <planetmaker> looking at them in comparison
06:21:15 <planetmaker> and I agree, a silo would also be more boring than the existing barrels. They're a nice expression of dis-order
06:21:29 <planetmaker> A rusty machinery or so somewhere would be awesome
06:27:57 <Supercheese> I almost always see elevated fuel tanks on farms
06:28:10 * planetmaker has never seen one
06:28:39 <planetmaker> just normal ones, but not prominently around either. It's not the typical thing imho
06:29:04 <Supercheese> perhaps it's more of a US thing
06:29:30 * Diablo_D3 quit playing openttd again
06:29:32 <Supercheese> those suckers are all over here
06:30:01 <Supercheese> cylinder with legs
06:30:23 <planetmaker> let's not make it easy for V :P
06:30:37 <planetmaker> this is the advanced class, not the beginner one .P
06:31:40 <Diablo_D3> is it possible that openttd isnt fun?
06:33:20 <Diablo_D3> people do all this neat shit for openttd
06:33:28 <Diablo_D3> and then no server uses it
06:34:22 <planetmaker> as server I only use stuff which is found on bananas
06:34:49 <Diablo_D3> well like, all the popular servers are ran by btpro.nl
06:35:24 <Diablo_D3> and they all use pretty vanilla stuff
06:35:40 <planetmaker> seems to be their and your problem. Not OpenTTD's
06:36:10 <planetmaker> play elsewhere where the game and the newgrfs suit you
06:36:32 <Diablo_D3> well, yes, I could play single player
06:36:35 <Diablo_D3> but its kinda boring
06:36:43 <planetmaker> play on other servers...
06:37:11 <Diablo_D3> there arent really any
06:37:15 <Diablo_D3> no one plays on them
06:40:34 <V453000> Alberth: planetmaker: I had the same feeling but couldnt decide
06:40:53 <V453000> rusty machinery would work for me :D
06:41:06 <Diablo_D3> theres other stuff like
06:41:12 <Diablo_D3> I'd love to play at native res
06:41:23 <Diablo_D3> but the UI elements are too small
06:41:54 <Diablo_D3> and on top of that, the GL blitter patch was never committed to upstream
06:52:38 <Diablo_D3> I dunno, I have a really bad love/hate relationship with openttd
06:52:48 <Diablo_D3> like, I'll not play it for a year
06:52:54 <Diablo_D3> then have a really bad craving for it
06:53:02 <Diablo_D3> play it for two weeks
06:53:09 <Diablo_D3> and then remember why I dont play it anymore
06:55:31 <Diablo_D3> like, the scale of items are kind of... weird.
06:55:38 <Diablo_D3> like, towns feel too small
06:55:45 <Diablo_D3> and industries feel too small
06:59:37 <Diablo_D3> its mostly stuff that cant be fixed because its set in stone
07:24:37 <peter1139> Go play Arma if you want scale.
07:25:09 <Diablo_D3> peter1139: I dont mean like that.
07:25:21 <Diablo_D3> its just that either the vehicles seem too big or the buildings seem too small
07:26:14 <planetmaker> can you phrase what you want in positives "I want things to work / be like..." instead of "not like ..."
07:26:49 <Diablo_D3> planetmaker: no, because Im not requesting it to be fixed because I realize how much of a shitstorm it would cause
07:27:14 <Diablo_D3> I think this is why I was banned from here a long time ago
07:27:28 <Diablo_D3> I asked if it would be possible
07:27:36 <Diablo_D3> and some chanop got pissed off and banned me
07:28:03 <peter1139> Some of those things are not "broken" to be "fixed"
07:28:22 <Diablo_D3> peter1139: well, the gui element problem is broken and does need to be fixed
07:28:40 <Diablo_D3> someone made a grf that fixes it, so it can be done, but you have to apply it on the server
07:28:48 <Diablo_D3> its not something you can optionally use
07:29:23 <Diablo_D3> not last time I tried it =/
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07:54:14 <planetmaker> Diablo_D3, Download opengfx big-gui and enable it in your newgrf selection. Then exit openttd. Open your openttd.cfg for editing
07:54:43 <planetmaker> copy the line containing like 52577801|20B5D8122F2B4AD74ADDA30E44BA8233|opengfx_biggui-2.0.0/ogfx-biggui.grf = 1
07:54:43 <planetmaker> from the [newgrf] section to the [newgrf-static] section
08:01:02 <peter1139> Could do with a UI for that ;)
08:02:01 <Diablo_D3> yeah it'd be nice to get a ui for that
08:02:04 <Diablo_D3> and have it built in
08:02:23 <Diablo_D3> it'd make openttd more accessable
08:03:46 <peter1139> For the very few people who use it.
08:04:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i think last time we had a discussion about it, we came to the conclusion that an action14 flag for static-ability would be useful
08:06:27 <peter1139> Just scan the GRF :p
08:06:42 <planetmaker> peter1139, that's definitely a catch22. Nobody knows about it, so no-one uses it
08:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1139: the scan would happen anyway, as the flag can't be trusted, but the scan only has to happen on activation, whereas the flag can be used as a filter for unactivated GRFs
08:08:42 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise you'd have to do the scan for all grfs at startup
08:09:11 <Eddi|zuHause> or you'd have no filter for GRFs that are static-able, making the GUI more complicated than it needs to be
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08:52:48 <planetmaker> V453000, one of the things which could lay or stand around could be like a pitchfork. Yeti like manual labour, do they?
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09:23:36 <Diablo_D3> Eddi|zuHause: so will the flag be added?
09:29:43 <Diablo_D3> btw, you know what I would find interesting?
09:30:05 <Diablo_D3> the whole forrestry thing should actually be eating a forrest
09:30:34 <Diablo_D3> like not a 4 by 4 block of identical trees
09:30:45 <Diablo_D3> but an amorphous blob of trees that can grow and contract
09:30:53 <Diablo_D3> and leave behind cut down tree stumps
09:39:44 <Diablo_D3> thats what a city should look like
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10:18:55 <V453000> they very much do planetmaker :D question is whether pitchfork is too tiny
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10:49:23 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 36 weeks, 3 days, 10 hours, 30 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
10:52:00 <DorpsGek> peter1139: I have not seen tron.
10:52:06 <DorpsGek> peter1139: darkvater was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 9 weeks, 1 day, 23 hours, 14 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <Darkvater> good ol' days :)
11:10:49 <planetmaker> V453000, it needs a yeti-sized pitchfork which is suitable to handle the giant weed which grows on that plantation
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12:12:05 <peter1139> Not to be confused with a tuningfork.
12:15:01 <DorpsGek> __ln__: I have not seen tuningfork.
12:26:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that would be fun, a mob of villagers with tuning forks...
12:26:45 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe works against ice monsters :)
12:38:45 <Eddi|zuHause> "You have died of Dysentery"
13:03:43 <UukGoblin> on PC, when I click a rail station construction, and hover my mouse over the game area, I see white squares and blue squares showing me where exactly the station will be before I click it. Same with placing rails and other things. However, on android, this is missing - when I hover my mouse, I see nothing, and the stuff appears in a hard-to-predict location only after I click the mouse. I can't find any settings that would affect it, can you help?
13:05:06 <peter1139> It's on the station build window.
13:05:07 <Eddi|zuHause> check the android topic in the development forum
13:05:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the android port is inofficial
13:05:38 <peter1139> "Coverage area highlight"
13:06:15 <peter1139> If no highlight appears at all, then yeah, what Eddi|zuHause said.
13:06:18 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1139: no, the android port likely does weird things with mouse positioning, so the tile highlighting will never happen
13:06:39 <UukGoblin> peter1139, yeah, it's On, but doesn't appear
13:07:48 <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, thanks, looking around now
13:07:55 <planetmaker> then report it to the person maintaining the android port. e.g. in the android topic at tt-forums.net
13:08:23 <UukGoblin> it sort of makes sense when you use the touchscreen normally, however I much prefer the laptop mode provided by libSDL - where you use the touchscreen as a laptop touchpad and move the cursor with it
13:10:46 <UukGoblin> (also, I have a bluetooth mouse)
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13:37:05 <NGC982> Hey, i need some inspiration for a new ttd server
13:37:24 <NGC982> I currently have a USSR, UK, Japanese and American server running.
13:37:29 <NGC982> And i need something funky.
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15:03:29 <UukGoblin> how can I check production (and % transported) of an oilfield?
15:03:58 <Alberth> click on the oilfield
15:04:32 <UukGoblin> I then get the stats for the station
15:04:39 <UukGoblin> so I see what's waiting there and what it accepts
15:04:48 <UukGoblin> (a gray window rather than orange one)
15:05:08 <Alberth> an oilrig, you mean then?
15:05:21 <UukGoblin> have to click in a bit different place
15:05:31 <Alberth> yeah, click at a different spot :)
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15:17:34 <toobored`> NGC982: a large european map with mediterean and the north coast of africa (egypt,libya etc!
15:21:00 <__ln__> even hitler failed with that big a map
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15:22:10 <toobored`> __ln__: byzantium worked kind of... for a while
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15:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> well there was wwottdgd
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16:14:42 <UukGoblin> if I have a lot of cargo waiting on a station that accepts this cargo, can I force-accept it?
16:14:50 <UukGoblin> (I had "transfer" in orders accidentally)
16:15:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you have to have a vehicle pick it up and drop it again
16:28:49 <Eddi|zuHause> "with 250.000 simultaneous peers, this season finale of Game of Thrones is the most shared file in the history of filesharing"
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18:34:43 <Tramvai> Tonight I return with a new question... what causes a cities population growth to come to a standstill? A city won't grow over 12k for some reason.
18:35:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the speed of house closing increases when there are more houses, but the speed of house cronstruction is constant (or decreases, when the roads have dead ends)
18:35:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so there is an equilibrium
18:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause> but where this equilibrium is depends on many factors, like number of stations served, road layout chosen, house set used, ...
18:37:24 <Tramvai> So, my roads could be the cause?
18:37:35 <Tramvai> Not exactly long and straight... :)
18:38:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the original layout is one of the least effective
18:38:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the roads are too close to each other, if they are spaced out more, more houses have space
18:39:00 <Eddi|zuHause> also, construct a 5th station, and make sure each of them is serviced regularly
18:39:17 <Tramvai> A station... What should that be?
18:39:56 <Eddi|zuHause> the number of station signs count, and that a vehicle loads or unloads there every 20 days
18:41:50 <Tramvai> Would love to get it to atleast 20,000.
18:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> there have been reports of towns up to 1M and cities up to 3M
18:44:43 <Tramvai> That sounds ridiculous
18:45:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i think 40k should be possible for a town like this
18:45:52 <Eddi|zuHause> especially if you tweak the roads a bit
18:47:12 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea what that even is
18:47:59 <Wolf01> I was hoping to get "batman" in 4 or 5 steps
18:49:44 <Alberth> Wolf01: hmm, without telling us the goal? that would be a challenge :)
18:52:00 <Tramvai> Adding a few stations did improve the growth, cheers.
18:53:00 <Alberth> try sub-tropical, there towns do not grow if they are in the desert :)
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21:03:59 <andythenorth> all my big pax stations have 3k-4k pax waiting
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21:17:18 <freeagy> how can i install openttd
21:18:17 <freeagy> i need the original game?
21:18:54 <planetmaker> openttd is the original game :)
21:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> for various values of "original"
21:19:36 <planetmaker> well, for mine :)
21:20:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i think your value of "original" is quite far on the outskirts of the bell curve :p
21:20:39 <freeagy> whats the difference Download stable (1.4.1) Download nightly (r26654)?
21:20:51 <planetmaker> I forged those statistics myself. It's right the median ;)
21:20:54 <Supercheese> Well, no offense to any OGFX artists, but the original graphics are way better
21:21:03 <Eddi|zuHause> freeagy: nightly has experimental features, which may contain more bugs than usual
21:21:16 <frosch123> nightly means "1.5 alpha"
21:21:25 <frosch123> so, if you are new, start with 1.4.1
21:22:05 <Eddi|zuHause> or if you want to play multiplayer, also start with 1.4.1
21:22:30 <Prof_Frink> Nightly will explode, burn your house down and eat your cat.
21:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no warranty that stable won't do that either
21:23:15 <frosch123> Supercheese: no offense to any artists, but the ogfx graphics are actually nicer once you get used to both
21:23:43 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: Stable usually only does one of the three.
21:24:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Prof_Frink: but there is still no warranty
21:24:25 <planetmaker> full refund for your purchase, Eddi|zuHause !
21:24:51 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you can't say that either, because there may be people out there who paid actual money
21:25:45 <planetmaker> I didn't see any of that. No refund for transaction fees
21:25:47 <Diablo-D3> [05:20:54] <Supercheese> Well, no offense to any OGFX artists, but the original graphics are way better
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21:26:00 <Diablo-D3> the original graphics have that retro hand pixel drawn look
21:26:21 <Diablo-D3> the new ones are that 90s cgi look
21:26:25 <Diablo-D3> I never cared for it tbh
21:26:27 <Eddi|zuHause> ogfx is probably fine, but i hate the rails and the maglevs
21:26:34 <Diablo-D3> what I really wish, btw
21:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the rails look like they've been rendered out-of-focus, and the maglevs are just plain terrible
21:27:32 <frosch123> Diablo-D3: don't confuse ogfx with zbase though
21:27:46 <Prof_Frink> I never liked the TTD monorails/maglevs. TTO monorails all the way!
21:28:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and then there's the general darker tone of everything
21:28:07 <Prof_Frink> Or even better, TTO monorail bridges. Bewdiful.
21:28:07 <frosch123> i have no idea what maglev looks like
21:28:23 <frosch123> i cannot remember building maglev the last time
21:28:28 <planetmaker> maglev looks... not like maglev but like a bob track
21:28:30 <frosch123> probably a decade ago
21:28:42 <glx> Prof_Frink: not will but can :)
21:28:53 <planetmaker> but that goes for TTD and OpenGFX alike
21:28:54 <Diablo-D3> maybe Im thinking of zbase then
21:29:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i don't really like the TTD maglev either, but the ogfx maglev is an order of magnitude worse
21:30:42 <planetmaker> maybe I will replace it somewhen by smits
21:30:51 <Eddi|zuHause> then there's this "transrapid track" with the terribly done fake elevation
21:30:51 <planetmaker> but that's a bit coarse, too
21:31:18 <Diablo-D3> well what I want is
21:31:22 <Diablo-D3> bigger buildings in openttd
21:31:28 <Diablo-D3> like huge skyscrapers
21:31:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i actually like smits, but for a base set it might not be the Right Thing (tm)
21:31:39 <frosch123> Diablo-D3: use ttrs
21:31:48 <frosch123> but personally i consider skyscrapers extremly ugly
21:32:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i want less skyscrapers
21:32:14 <Diablo-D3> and having even smaller houses would be nice too
21:32:15 <frosch123> default won't change
21:32:21 <Diablo-D3> frosch123: yeah thats the problem
21:32:23 <frosch123> the point of default is being default
21:32:30 <Diablo-D3> if default doesnt change, then servers will never take it up
21:32:49 <frosch123> that's the problem of the servers
21:32:57 <frosch123> or maybe of the user interface
21:33:11 <frosch123> but with bananas grfs there should be no problem
21:33:52 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe if it actually downloaded the bananas grfs on join without further interaction?
21:34:55 <Diablo-D3> games have had that for the past 15 yeas
21:34:59 <Diablo-D3> openttd should have it
21:35:22 <planetmaker> Diablo-D3, you whine about 'servers', but from what you tell, you only ever play on one...
21:35:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not an expert in game psychology
21:35:41 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: I play on the btpro.nl ones
21:35:44 <Diablo-D3> they have like 10 or w/e
21:35:50 <Diablo-D3> and its usually the only populated ones
21:36:30 <planetmaker> I refute that statement
21:36:52 <planetmaker> it only says that you play on one server. But don't look elsewhere
21:40:26 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: I dont play on the goal-less ones
21:41:07 <planetmaker> that still makes your statement wrong
21:41:24 <planetmaker> but limits the amount of other available servers slightly
21:43:31 <planetmaker> but if you want something like "exactly like this except..."... go start your own or talk to the server owners and get involved there
21:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause> if there are 5% of servers using goals, and 5% of servers using newgrf, then "servers that use goals and newgrfs" is a diminishing fraction (assuming both variables are independent, which they probably are not)
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21:43:48 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, both% are much bigger
21:43:57 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: /me shrugs
21:44:09 <Diablo-D3> I mean, I could start a server, but I doubt anyone will play on it
21:44:19 <Diablo-D3> if people liked multiplayer newgrf, all the servers would be doing it by now
21:44:31 * planetmaker considers an ignore for whiners
21:44:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: i think you are wrong.
21:45:06 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: well, on this, I'd like to be wrong
21:45:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: no matter how easy you make changing the config, the majority of people will use the default config
21:46:06 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: /me shrugs
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22:57:49 <toobored`> does anyone play with the metro trains of 2cc set instead of buses?
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23:01:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't prevent you from using busses
23:05:33 <Supercheese> perhaps there is a "as the primary intracity transport method" missing
23:05:44 <Diablo-D3> Ive always wanted to do metro trains
23:05:53 <Diablo-D3> but they always seemed more expensive and problematic than bussses
23:05:54 <Supercheese> time for shameless plug
23:05:58 <Supercheese> Fake Subways newgrf
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23:06:21 <Diablo-D3> btw, I guess subways will never make it into openttd
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23:06:42 <Supercheese> It attempts to combine the best of both worlds within current OTTD limitations
23:07:01 <Supercheese> Visuals that look like subways but are actually coded as road vehicles
23:07:56 <Supercheese> Pros and cons are listed in the post there
23:08:06 <Diablo-D3> yeah Im reading that now
23:11:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm usually using trams
23:11:34 <Supercheese> which are essentially above-ground subways :P
23:11:49 <Supercheese> as oxymoronic as that phrase is
23:12:00 <Eddi|zuHause> or on-rail-busses?
23:12:38 <Supercheese> Indeed, setting the parameter to make fake subways trams, they behave nearly identically except for speed, capacity, etc.
23:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause> or on-road-ish-trains?
23:13:06 <Supercheese> still waiting on roadtypes
23:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe they are on-ground-planes?
23:13:12 <Supercheese> so I can abuse the crap out of them
23:13:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: they would still miss a tram-subway-connector piece
23:14:01 <Supercheese> Yeah, only depots could do that
23:14:23 <Supercheese> and even then visual-only I suspect
23:14:36 <Supercheese> unless powered roadtypes could change with cargo subtype
23:15:21 <Supercheese> trains don't have that callback currently, it seems
23:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you can only change the power, not the powered-state
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23:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause> which would confuse the hell out of the pathfinder
23:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause> powered-ness is a property of the railtype, not the vehicle, anyway
23:17:22 <Supercheese> ah, yes, just seeing that now
23:17:55 <toobored`> I see. I hit a nerve..
23:18:18 <toobored`> I like having the metros as hauling shit btw very close stations of different cities
23:19:40 <toobored`> sth like of a small suburban train with a max distance of 10/15/20 or sth like that... still haven't figured out the correct math
23:20:09 <toobored`> but some of my best metro routes do sth like 2m/year on fully developed cities
23:22:02 <Supercheese> seems coding required
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23:30:23 <toobored`> Diablo-D3: will give that a 3
continue to next day ⏵
