IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-06-06
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00:53:19 <mist> NGC982: if i want to leave someone at a station and pick up another, what do i need to set the orders to on that station?
00:55:10 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't do that
00:55:17 <Eddi|zuHause> you'll load the same person again
00:55:37 <Eddi|zuHause> enable cargo distribution if you want the person to have an opinion on where to go
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00:57:46 <mist> perhaps i was a bit unclear
00:57:55 <mist> i want to leave grain at a station and pick up coal
00:58:15 <mist> but when i try to do this and there is still grain on the station, i will start picking it up again
00:58:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. you cannot leave the grain
00:58:43 <Eddi|zuHause> or you cannot pick up coal
00:58:50 <Eddi|zuHause> you cannot do both
00:59:01 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you use cargodist
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01:13:05 <mist> ok so i'm using 2 trains instead
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06:44:44 <V453000> the static water is a bit odd, but having water without borders is not very normal either :)
06:44:58 <V453000> might animate it someday(tm)
06:45:44 <Supercheese> presumably it's not animated
06:45:50 <Supercheese> from the .png we can't tell
06:46:09 <Pikka> I don't see any water though :)
06:46:10 <planetmaker> V453000, water has always been without borders :)
06:46:31 <V453000> Pikka: the glass-like box at the end of the belt/start of the slide
06:46:35 <V453000> it has the glowing ball in it
06:46:55 <planetmaker> I like how the balls are then piped around to the storage box :)
06:47:11 <planetmaker> though it actually might be funny to do the whole thing reverse
06:47:22 <planetmaker> sucking-in the spheres and spitting out cubes
06:47:25 <V453000> myeah :D perhaps on some april fools edition pm :P
06:47:28 <planetmaker> and the powa things is for cooling
06:48:57 <V453000> what is great is that I can now make an iron ore mine made of mainly boxes :D
06:49:15 <V453000> -> easy, nice, special
06:51:56 <Pikka> you should make an irony ore mine
06:52:48 <Pikka> like the opposite of what it is, obviously
06:54:39 <V453000> pond with a frog in the middle?
06:54:43 <V453000> with a slug riding a boat?
06:55:55 <Pikka> that's more of a non-sequitur mine, I would have thought
07:18:20 <Supercheese> Not sure about that first question
07:18:26 <planetmaker> sounds like a nice theme, V453000 :)
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07:18:33 <Supercheese> I don't think the NML vars are quite there
07:18:53 <V453000> what do you mean pm? :)
07:19:13 <planetmaker> a pont with a frog and a slug in a boat :)
07:19:16 <Supercheese> I don't think vehicles have a current-slope variable
07:19:24 <planetmaker> just wonder what industry it is, but it sounds good :)
07:19:32 <planetmaker> maybe an alternative farm :P
07:19:34 <V453000> Pikka suggested irony mine
07:19:50 <V453000> hm yeah I could make fish pond :D
07:19:59 <V453000> fruit/vegetables is boaring
07:20:20 <Supercheese> Orchard & Piggery is boaring
07:20:43 <planetmaker> wild life refuge might provide boaring ;)
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07:22:58 <Supercheese> Would go well with Irony Mine
07:28:35 <planetmaker> Alternatively the Irony mine is an easter egg... produces flies which can be delivered to towns. Or food factories. The meads add extra proteins, thus increase production ;)
07:29:13 <planetmaker> or it produces midgets. Which make yeti work harder. As only when they stay in motion they won#t be stung
07:33:07 <V453000> I will just say I will think about easter eggs like that later :P
07:40:33 <Supercheese> Requires: Bunnies
07:41:16 <planetmaker> delivers: eggs and bunny meat? :D
07:41:44 <planetmaker> but does it really require bunnies? Not rather grass. Or weed? :P
07:43:18 <Supercheese> dunno, maybe it requires puns? Punnies?
07:43:35 <planetmaker> fits the irony mine
07:43:44 <planetmaker> punny rabbits can be dug up there
07:43:57 <V453000> planetmaker: so the RVs -could- be sloped when going up/downhill?
07:44:26 <Supercheese> Wonder how that code would go
07:44:28 <planetmaker> hm... though... that only works for articulated
07:44:34 <Supercheese> not for single vehicles?
07:44:40 <planetmaker> maybe there's another way. Dunno right now
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13:33:33 <NGC982> When using the -G flag on a dedicated Linux server, does the flag (random seed) replace the defined value in the config, if a certain config is used with -c?
13:36:06 <NGC982> I run my public servers with a defined restart_year and reload_cfg. Since the config is defined by -c, the server restarts the map with the exact seed in the config file.
13:36:34 <NGC982> It would be nice if it changed it itself, or used a random seed when the server automaticly restarts.
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16:18:01 <frosch123> V453000: can you fit in a guano mine or something?
16:18:18 <frosch123> and a factory which processes guano into luxury goods or so
16:24:43 <Alberth> playing with nuts 0.7.1 in sub-tropical is really a joy, such beautiful loading stages of the rails wagons
16:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't guano like bat shit?
16:43:29 <frosch123> TrueBrain: blathijs: heffer: what's your experience with projects using cmake to generate makefiles? in the purely hypothetical case that ottd would replace its configure script with cmake: would you party, scream, shake heads? or just moan on having to invest work into changing something just for the sake of changing it?
16:44:58 <TrueBrain> I wouldnt care one way or the other; as long as ./configure && make works, I am fine
16:45:45 <TrueBrain> I would only be terribly sad that after 5+ years my custom written configure would die a silent death ...
16:45:45 <planetmaker> cmake && make would be the replacement or similar
16:45:52 <TrueBrain> it has been so awesome .....
16:46:13 <TrueBrain> at least allow me to say a few words before you commit such thing!
16:46:16 <frosch123> planetmaker: well, there could still be a configure script which just calls cmake :p
16:46:36 <frosch123> TrueBrain: answer to fs#6036, if you have a proper answer :)
16:46:51 <frosch123> only contact with cmake i have is widelands
16:46:56 <frosch123> but they also use bazaar :p
16:46:57 * LordAro hears cmake, becomes intrigued
16:47:12 <TrueBrain> owh, you arent writing the cmake patch
16:47:14 <TrueBrain> that changes things a bit
16:47:30 <TrueBrain> you have to examine every target we support (or silently support) for proper funcitonality
16:47:33 <TrueBrain> that might be rather tricky
16:47:46 <frosch123> that's as much as i figured :) lots of work
16:47:50 <planetmaker> I'm not too intruiged by such change. But in all honesty, most of that comes from the fact I'd have to learn cmake while I understand the current one
16:47:55 <TrueBrain> not only patch wise ..
16:48:05 <TrueBrain> and in the end, you then have to wonder if the effort is worth the gain
16:48:12 <frosch123> yup, all farms, all distros, ...
16:48:25 <TrueBrain> mostly platforms like DOS and win9x
16:48:31 <TrueBrain> would they still work?
16:48:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like something that would have a hard time being worth anything
16:48:51 <TrueBrain> but, in all honestly .. the current system is fucked up retarded (and yes, I wrote it, so I can say that)
16:48:55 <TrueBrain> fully custom written
16:49:00 <Eddi|zuHause> but nobody ever propeerly introduced cmake to me
16:49:02 <TrueBrain> it is not really ... friendly
16:49:30 <TrueBrain> some of his points are invalid btw
16:49:42 <TrueBrain> like the "make mrproper" point
16:49:46 <planetmaker> if he wants cmake, he should make a patch. But I also understand, we should give an indication whether we would lean more towards or against such change, if he wrote it
16:50:20 <TrueBrain> it will take him a lot of time to proof it works on all our current targets; I wonder if he is willing to invest that time
16:50:27 <Eddi|zuHause> like, when i get a source package of some kde stuff, which generally has more stuff in it than i actually want to change/compile i can't really figure out how to compile only the part that i want changed
16:50:39 <frosch123> planetmaker: i value the opinion of package maintainers and people maintaining the compile farm higher than anything :)
16:51:19 <planetmaker> fair enough reasoning
16:51:37 <TrueBrain> it will be a long road to walk
16:51:54 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: it's perfectly normal to think "wtf was that idiot thinking?!?" when you read 5 year old code from you :p
16:52:10 <TrueBrain> even 1 week old code triggers that
16:52:11 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it's not perl at least
16:52:15 <TrueBrain> (yes Xaroth, I am beating you to that punchline)
16:52:52 <TrueBrain> I think the most important question to ask: if a target doesnt support CMake, than what?
16:54:02 <planetmaker> keep that in ./configure? :)
16:54:11 <TrueBrain> double-configure system?
16:54:16 <TrueBrain> sounds like a horrible idea :P
16:54:32 <TrueBrain> it is the reason this is written in bash btw
16:54:39 <TrueBrain> to ensure even strange targets can be supported
17:06:07 <Alberth> in my experience cmake mostly targets package builders rather than developers, you don't have "make clean", config variables are a mess, simple things like toggling a debug build are very hard to do unless you know the magic word exactly
17:06:33 <LordAro> you can relatively easily add your own make targets though
17:07:32 <Alberth> but you hardly ever need to do that
17:08:09 <LordAro> oh, i'm not defending cmake :p
17:08:10 <Alberth> ie it targets package builders rather than its regular users
17:09:11 <LordAro> it's relatively horrid to write anything other than simple stuff with it
17:09:19 <Alberth> and so far its easy cross platform support didn't bring a windows executable of freerct
17:09:34 <LordAro> but it's the "best" cross-platform stuff out there
17:09:44 <LordAro> Alberth: that's not due to the cmake ;)
17:09:57 <LordAro> the cmake is fine, windows is the issue :p
17:10:20 <Alberth> isn't cmake supposed to handle that differences?
17:10:49 <LordAro> it can't handle the fact that windows doesn't support posix properly
17:10:50 <planetmaker> it can't solve the missing package manager for you, I guess
17:10:52 <Alberth> ie it claims to be cross platform
17:11:34 <planetmaker> But then, everything else also supports standard make rather unmodified
17:11:56 <Alberth> didn't people have trouble with sdl libraries? clearly a compiler configure problem, it seems to me
17:11:57 <planetmaker> the same configure script works on linux, bsd and osx really
17:13:19 <LordAro> i've not tried it myself
17:25:23 <mist> Is there an easy way to replace old railroad with new?
17:25:45 <mist> as in railroad->mono->maglev
17:26:39 <frosch123> using an universal railtype
17:26:59 <mist> is there such a thing? =O
17:27:13 <frosch123> in newgrf there is every nonsense
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17:45:56 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26631 /trunk/src/lang (6 files) (2014-06-06 17:45:44 UTC)
17:45:57 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:58 <DorpsGek> catalan - 57 changes by juanjo
17:45:59 <DorpsGek> english_AU - 1 changes by mrtux
17:46:00 <DorpsGek> german - 1 changes by planetmaker
17:46:01 <DorpsGek> hebrew - 24 changes by oofnik
17:46:02 <DorpsGek> italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
17:46:03 <DorpsGek> russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
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18:47:36 <andythenorth> and some translations
18:47:54 <andythenorth> nothing saying “ships with multiple cargos” :O
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18:51:43 <Wolf01> I want submarines with threads
18:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like something V453000 would make
18:56:54 <blathijs> frosch123: I usually frown at cmake - on one hand because I simply do not know much about it, but also because it's not very easy to work with if you don't know much about it
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19:01:50 <andythenorth> is there an objection to ships with multiple holds? And if not, should there be? o_O
19:03:50 <Supercheese> "it requires lots of coding work"
19:06:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the question is wrongly asked.
19:06:41 <andythenorth> ask it better then...
19:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> like "is there an objection to world peace"
19:07:09 <andythenorth> but there are people working on world peace
19:07:33 <andythenorth> also, what are the gameplay benefits of world peace?
19:07:45 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to have an idea, a concept, and an implementation
19:08:17 <Eddi|zuHause> each of these can and will have objections against them
19:08:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the work on overcoming these objections is equally important as the work on the idea/concept/implementation itself
19:10:27 <andythenorth> what’s the difference between idea and concept? o_O
19:10:46 <Alberth> the suggestions forum versus the development forum?
19:11:16 <andythenorth> ok so I have no real concept for multi-cargo ships
19:11:27 <andythenorth> but the idea has come up from multiple people
19:11:34 <Alberth> the problem is where to put the extra holds
19:11:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: idea: "i should go to new york", concept: "i should reserve a hotel and buy a plane ticket"
19:11:50 <Alberth> aircraft only work due to the shadow sprite, afaik
19:12:27 <andythenorth> well I wonder, 2 holds, or n holds?
19:13:13 <Alberth> 32 should be sufficient :p
19:13:42 <Eddi|zuHause> 640k ought to be enough for anybody
19:14:16 <andythenorth> as long as you have it over and over again
19:14:48 <andythenorth> 2 is enough for aircraft
19:14:49 <Alberth> having a flat 32 bit address space is very useful at times :p
19:15:05 <Alberth> aircraft are not that long in the air
19:15:08 <andythenorth> 2 output cargos is enough for industries
19:15:20 <Eddi|zuHause> aircraft are horrible
19:15:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know why people like them so much
19:15:39 * andythenorth hates having no argument
19:15:43 <andythenorth> especially when it’s Eddi|zuHause :(
19:15:50 <Alberth> it's quite likely that if you can do 2, you can do n
19:16:11 <andythenorth> likely != desirable :P
19:16:38 <Alberth> sure, it was "can" in the technical sense :)
19:16:49 <Alberth> just like you can have 4096x4096 maps
19:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> weren't there like patches for 16kx16k out there?
19:18:33 * Alberth has no doubt there are
19:19:55 <andythenorth> my concept is 2 cargos per ship
19:19:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it'd be pretty easy to use the articulated parts callback for cargo holds. but then you have a problem with refitting, because in the current system, articulated parts can only be refitted as a whole
19:20:28 <Eddi|zuHause> if you use articulated parts, then there is no reason to limit it to 2
19:20:42 <andythenorth> are they real parts, or just virtual?
19:20:52 <andythenorth> i.e. do they have a sprite chain
19:22:23 <Eddi|zuHause> they would naturally have a sprite chain, but the program could suppress it if it wanted to
19:22:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but you could use them for cargo graphics
19:23:08 <frosch123> maybe do not load the cargo, but just just the cdist link graph for an estimate what to unload :p
19:23:38 <frosch123> sometime you lose stuff, sometimes you find stuff
19:23:51 <frosch123> noone knows what's loaded
19:24:41 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i'm pretty sure there is huge amount of logistics data on which container is currently on which ship in the world
19:24:46 <andythenorth> I wondered about storing the cargo in the map
19:25:07 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: then you have no idea what "the map" is and how it works
19:25:33 <frosch123> andythenorth: colonization does that
19:25:41 <frosch123> at least with units
19:25:57 <frosch123> if you overtake another ship with an empty one, you take over the units loaded on the other one
19:26:11 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: cargo is stored in the cargo pool. the vehicle has pointers into this cargo pool
19:26:12 <andythenorth> keep the cargo on a tile, mark it as owned by a vehicle
19:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: only pirate ships take over cargo
19:26:50 <frosch123> i mean the case when both ships are yours
19:27:25 <Eddi|zuHause> erm, yes. old civilization-type games had that behaviour
19:27:36 <frosch123> the first ship that leaves the tile just takes the first units
19:27:50 <Eddi|zuHause> because the command of the other units is "go along with the next ship that passes by
19:28:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i think they changed that in civ3
19:28:38 <Eddi|zuHause> at least civ4 has "board this ship" commands
19:28:47 <frosch123> yes, civ3 has those
19:31:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and civ5 doesn't have transport ships anymore
19:32:30 <frosch123> how do you play islands?
19:32:35 <Eddi|zuHause> each unit turns into a ship when it enters a water tile
19:32:50 <Eddi|zuHause> (spending all its remaining movement points)
19:33:16 <frosch123> you can just scout with a worker or something?
19:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you have to research shipbuilding first
19:33:47 <Eddi|zuHause> and astronomy if you want to go on ocean
19:34:32 <frosch123> yeah, that hasn't changed since civ 1 :)
19:34:40 <Eddi|zuHause> a worker on water can actually defend itself
19:34:41 <frosch123> except in civ1 it was attached to unit types
19:35:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it still is. warships come in "coast-only" and "ocean-going" varieties
19:39:44 <andythenorth> we should research astronomy in openttd
19:39:58 <andythenorth> also we should put some kind of pay-to-play crap in
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19:40:32 <Eddi|zuHause> weren't you like "ocean speed for ships is a BAD FEATURE" a few weeks ago?
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19:42:35 <andythenorth> I can’t remember
19:42:42 <andythenorth> like the weather
19:44:21 <LordAro> different channel, but o/ :)
19:44:37 <Zuu> I didn't got voice over there. ;-)
19:45:39 <Zuu> I did but too late. Maybe that's why.
19:46:06 <Zuu> Anyway TTF has arrived to a bahnhof :-p
19:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause> why would you bring a car to a train station?
20:04:51 <Zuu> No bahnhof is my network name.
20:06:39 <Zuu> planetmaker has been missing it.
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