IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-06-02
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10:57:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it took me some time to learn how to quit vi
10:58:02 <V453000> I have no idea what is vi
10:58:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it's like gvim, just without g, but probably with m anyway
10:59:07 <V453000> I perfecly know what you are talking about
11:01:59 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is that the people who know vi expect you to just know vi as well
11:02:31 <Eddi|zuHause> which makes the learning curve steeper than it ought to be
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11:04:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i know the solution: they should add a little paperclip that pops up "looks like you're trying to quit this program, can i help you with that?"
11:06:44 <Eddi|zuHause> to this day the only vi commands i know are "save and quit", "quit without saving", "search" and on a good day "replace using regexp"
11:07:31 <Eddi|zuHause> occasionally "undo" and "delete n lines"
11:07:55 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i wish i knew copy-paste, but then i'm never bothered enough to find out...
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11:17:44 <planetmaker> that sounds about like my vi knowledge, Eddi|zuHause ;)
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12:06:31 <LordAro> 'u' is undo, funnily enough
12:09:31 <planetmaker> the ominous undo-knob? :P
12:25:49 <Eddi|zuHause> for the record, i think the way refitting was "resolved" is wrong(tm). it should display all subtypes of all wagons, but only refit the ones that offer the specific subtype selected
12:27:15 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the way subtypes are implemented is suboptimal...
12:31:38 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, and then only refit the engine (which has a 1 envelope-sized mail compartement) instead of the bulkd wagons
12:32:17 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes. why not?
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12:34:11 <planetmaker> and why is that the more correct behaviour?
12:35:51 <V453000> any way to tell train sets that YETI cargo is meant to be transported in some horrible ratio in compare to the cargo capacity? (e.g. goods get double capacity by default) ... like if I would like a 30-unit cargo wagon to get only 2 units of YETI cargo?
12:36:10 <V453000> OR do I need to make YETI newGRF disable itself when it doesnt have NUTS around? XD
12:36:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not "more correct" it's "i would expect this situation to be more common"
12:37:20 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i would rather select a subtype that refits only half the wagons, instead of selecting each wagon idividually to apply the refit
12:37:39 <Eddi|zuHause> wagons may be mixed in a weird way
12:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and you cannot select non-continguous wagon chains
12:39:41 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: besides the builtin mail/goods factors? not sure but i don't think so
12:39:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and train sets often ignore these factors
12:40:05 <V453000> NUTS ignores it entirely for example
12:40:23 <V453000> give YETIs simply TONS? :D
12:40:41 <V453000> 30t of yetis = 2 fat basterds
12:41:07 <Eddi|zuHause> make a spec that gives a cargo "weight units", "area units" and "volume units", and wagons get a capacity for each, whichever is hit first limits the capacity
12:41:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that wouldn't be very hard
12:42:37 <Eddi|zuHause> but possibly you should allow for fractional ratios, instead of 1-2-4...
12:43:40 <V453000> well for now I will just make yetis come in ton units :D
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16:13:29 <frosch123> i expected the food processing plant to process 2 pieces of yeti into 30 bags of yeti
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16:48:04 <V453000> nice one frosch123 :D
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17:08:25 <MTsPony> anyone know why ttdur (Urban renewal) New Stations never made it into BaNaNas?
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17:37:27 <Eddi|zuHause> cause nobody went into the jungle and turned the banana straight
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18:18:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26625 /branches/1.4 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2014-06-02 18:18:35 UTC)
18:18:44 <DorpsGek> [1.4] -Backport from trunk:
18:18:45 <DorpsGek> - Fix: First send packages about new company, then clients joining it to admin port [FS#6025] (r26616)
18:20:00 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26626 /branches/1.4 (5 files in 3 dirs) (2014-06-02 18:19:54 UTC)
18:20:01 <DorpsGek> [1.4] -Update documentation
18:23:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26627 /tags/1.4.1 (10 files in 4 dirs) (2014-06-02 18:23:04 UTC)
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18:58:27 <andythenorth> apparently infrastructure sharing is best thing since sliced
18:58:36 <andythenorth> has anyone tried it?
18:58:54 <Alberth> the forum is full with those people :)
18:59:17 * planetmaker once developed it ;)
18:59:17 <andythenorth> I am not -1 to it
18:59:29 <planetmaker> s/developed/rewrote/
18:59:37 <planetmaker> the 2nd-to last instantiation
19:00:06 <andythenorth> so I could just build tracks and you could just run the trains?
19:00:13 <planetmaker> it's nice to have if for some colaborative things.
19:00:21 <planetmaker> yeah, that's what we did
19:00:48 <andythenorth> and I could run trains down the AI tracks (if any)
19:00:50 <andythenorth> and then stop them
19:00:52 <Alberth> I'll build the left track, you do the right one :)
19:01:18 <planetmaker> andythenorth, no, you couldn't. It required explicit permission granted by the companies
19:01:40 <planetmaker> so before you could use my tracks, I'd have to allow you to use my rail tracks
19:01:52 * Alberth grants rights to andy for building the right track
19:01:54 <planetmaker> once they were three separate switches
19:02:41 <planetmaker> and each had a price tag attached to it
19:02:54 <planetmaker> but I'm not sure whether that's not too fine-grained control
19:03:21 <planetmaker> and the same for roads, docks and airports, too
19:03:28 <Alberth> stations seems legit to me
19:04:41 <planetmaker> it was actually fun to play with one infrastructure company and several transport ones :)
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19:05:38 <planetmaker> we had news which announced rental price changes which took effect a game year later (or something like that).
19:06:01 <planetmaker> and of course the same for other sharing - related things which affected your company
19:09:40 <frosch123> today you just use purr to colour tracks differently :p
19:11:45 <Alberth> you know different colours have different properties?
19:13:00 <frosch123> heffer: blathijs: new release \o/
19:13:17 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.4.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices"
19:14:33 <LordAro> frosch123: clearly DorpsGek should automatically update the topic
19:15:41 <LordAro> of course it's worth the time, don't be silly
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19:17:03 <frosch123> usually only svn and git fail :p
19:17:28 <planetmaker> hg.o.o works for me?
19:17:58 <frosch123> maybe it just oom-cycled or something :p
19:19:47 <frosch123> there is nothing weird when software is involved
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19:22:55 <frosch123> v posted it this morning
19:23:07 <LordAro> i found it on reddit last night :p
19:27:33 <frosch123> how long did you search for ✔ ?
19:28:48 <LordAro> "unicode tick" -> wikipedia -> c&p
19:30:49 <frosch123> ah, i thought you have a fancy ċȯṁṗȯṡė key
19:31:42 <LordAro> i've never properly worked out how to do unicode in linux
19:31:52 <LordAro> it seems to depend on which program/distro
19:32:32 <frosch123> you just go into your X settings and assign compose to caps lock
19:32:54 <frosch123> there is also plenty of stuff on altgr+shift
19:37:28 <planetmaker> ðough not displayed on the keyboard. I wonder why :)
19:37:49 * Alberth uses kcharselect to select non-ascii characters
19:38:20 <frosch123> kcharselect is good if you only have the name of a char, but do not know how it looks like :p
19:39:07 <Alberth> hmm, please someone build OCR for unicode characters :)
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19:49:08 <Rubidium> that'll be a nightmare
19:55:18 <frosch123> i guess with a sufficient small font size you can do everything with braille chars
19:59:35 * Rubidium would use block chars
20:01:05 <andythenorth> 4.30am was not pretty
20:02:01 <Rubidium> but... it's only 16:01
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20:04:20 <frosch123> pm pressing ctrl w again :p
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21:46:57 <heffer> gnah. could you please stop changing the tarball name scheme for every release.
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21:48:02 <heffer> that's rather... inconvenient for the packagers
22:00:04 <Rubidium> it's been produced by the same process for years
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22:09:01 <Xaroth|Work> Rubidium: but the number, it changes!
22:11:07 <heffer> Rubidium: 0.2.4: nml-0.2.4.src.tar.gz, unpacks to nml-0.2.4; 0.2.5: nml-0.2.5-src.tgz, unpacks to nml-0.2.5-src; 0.3.1: nml-0.3.1.r5242-f6a3ae1163ab.tar.gz, unpacks to nml-0.3.1.r5242-f6a3ae1163ab
22:11:18 <Xaroth|Work> heffer: that's not openttd, that's nml
22:11:36 <heffer> oh sorry, i thought i mentioned above
22:11:44 <heffer> actually i now see i didn't :D
22:11:46 <Xaroth|Work> you should kick whoever does nml builds :P
22:12:27 <heffer> especially 0.3.1 is extremely annoying as i also have to manually change the svn release and git commit hash every. single. time.
22:12:43 <heffer> before that it was just bumping the release number and we're good to go :D
22:13:03 <heffer> but i just noticed i'm whining about something i have to do maybe twice a year
22:13:14 <Rubidium> funnily the rXYZ of nml isn't a svn revision
22:14:23 <heffer> whatever it is it doesn't seem to correlate to the version number in any way. also it seems it can't be deducted from the version number
22:14:52 <Rubidium> it's datediff(day-of-release, 20010101)
22:15:29 <Rubidium> uhm.. datediff(day, day-of-release, 20000101)
22:15:48 <heffer> i wonder how this information is even relevant for a release tarball? i would figure if i tag a release in git it should have all the related info in it then.
22:16:07 <heffer> i'm not complaining actually. just trying to understand
22:17:33 <Rubidium> I kinda agree that such information is not useful in the tarball name or the folder for stable releases; for automated builds it's kinda useful to know the order (the rxyz) and the actual revision (in this case a mercurial hash)
22:18:40 <heffer> also: opengfx changed from tar.xz+tar.gz in 0.4.7 to tar.gz only in 0.5.0 and then to tar.xz only in 0.5.1
22:19:05 <heffer> openttd itself and grfcodec have been nice and stable though :D
22:19:50 <Rubidium> don't forget opensfx and catcodec (although they're effectively dead)
22:21:48 <heffer> we don't carry those in Fedora because of us being licensing nazis
22:22:05 <heffer> sampling plus is for some reason a non-free license
22:23:46 <Rubidium> but yes, I can imagine that the release process of nml + opengfx should be more automated, or at least the source tarball part of the whole effort
22:24:06 <Rubidium> it's also non-free in Debian, which is why it's in non-free in Debian
22:25:20 <Rubidium> the main problem is that there aren't many samples that are free; if only someone had a decent sound recording device and interest to sample everything from scratch ;)
22:25:32 <Rubidium> a number of samples are public domain though
22:26:23 <heffer> yeah so in fedora it would need to go in RPMFusion. but i didn't bother doing that because you can easily download the SFX from the ingame downloader if you really want
22:28:16 <Rubidium> hmm, looks like the opensfx 'Makefile-source' has been changed significantly since the last release
22:28:57 <Rubidium> but then again, the only reason to release is a few more translations which is kinda not worth the effort for everyone redownloading a couple of MB
22:35:09 <Rubidium> planetmaker: how does 15-11-2014 (check the rXYZ to know why this date) sound as a day for a workshop to get some sane, stable and unified versioning plus archiving for (at least) source tarballs for opengfx, opensfx, openmsx, nml and possibly grfcodec/openttd?
22:35:28 <Rubidium> although... that quite a bit in the future
22:35:57 <Rubidium> but then, I wonder how many releases are done/needed before then anyhow; it'd be mostly for extra trunk sprites
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22:43:24 <MTsPony> Question, if a map was made on a windows client and then running it on a dedicated linux server compiled with the same trunk, does this cause any issues?
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22:44:33 <Eddi|zuHause> but if you copy your .cfg to the server, you might need to replace \ by /
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23:58:04 <Eddi|zuHause> is there an arabic or chinese version of braille?
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