IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-03-30
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01:56:03 <Eddi|zuHause> THERE IS AN HOUR MISSING!!!
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02:19:07 <Flygon> Is it evil when you're kind of wanting good buses to be available in a game because a railway would be a pita? D:
03:34:42 <Eddi|zuHause> do not repeat that sentence when andy is around :p
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05:46:56 <supermop> no tram riding today
05:47:22 <supermop> but i will go to a pub named tramway hotel tonight
05:48:54 <supermop> are you in seattle Supercheese?
05:49:38 <Supercheese> it's quite a few hours' drive to seattle
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05:55:30 <supermop> i was not actually aware that the skinny part was inhabited
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08:06:04 <supermop> hi planetmaker im off to the tramway hotel pub
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10:19:45 <planetmaker> welcome back :) that was a quick pub excursion ;)
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10:25:09 <supermop> pub, then went to the grocery store, then came home and made palomas with a home infused jalapeno tequilla!
10:25:36 <planetmaker> but short for pub still. Even shorter ;)
10:25:36 <supermop> the tramway hotel pub has a beer called tramway conductor pale ale
10:26:34 <supermop> well it is a sunday night, and my fiancee has wireframing work to get done on her app
10:26:47 <supermop> and i have... nothing much to do
10:27:03 <supermop> other than make drinks
10:29:26 <peter1138> Temporarily using only one monitor. It feels so constrictive.
10:29:30 <supermop> it's really hard to find metalworkers here
10:29:37 <supermop> i miss my dual monitors
10:29:47 <supermop> last time I had them was circa 2009
10:32:08 <supermop> i think i infused the tequilla too long
10:50:31 <supermop> so what all is going on?
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10:51:37 <andythenorth> voyager 1 has drawn a train
10:52:06 <andythenorth> andythenorth is making breakfast
10:53:32 <peter1138> andythenorth, road types!
10:53:52 <peter1138> So is there anything cool to go with 10cc?
10:54:44 <peter1138> I miss wagon speed limits in it though :(
10:55:43 <peter1138> I dunno, all this optimisation.
10:56:06 <peter1138> Yet there's still our own unique version of tearing, which is... vertical.
10:56:34 <supermop> the roadtype i most want to see is fancy terrazzo pavement pedestrian mall with tram tracks,
10:56:48 <supermop> because apparently that exists downtown in this city
10:57:46 <dxtr> peter1138: Vertical tearing?
10:57:56 <dxtr> How have you managed to achieve this?
10:58:15 <peter1138> It's how ottd draws blocks.
10:59:09 <peter1138> When scrolling the map the parts of the screen update at slightly different times, so it gets a bit... weird.
11:00:32 <dxtr> Maybe I should learn to code gfx :P
11:00:50 <dxtr> I'm one of those pesky people who prefer to do the back-end
11:01:29 <dxtr> Don't ask me why I added a hyphen there
11:04:21 <peter1138> Heh, weird, I have two towns close to each other: Trunthill and Truntfield.
11:05:29 <V453000> wait wait wait dont you want to say you are playing the actual game?
11:07:18 <peter1138> Heh, weird, I'm playing the game.
11:11:16 <andythenorth> peter1138: road types?
11:11:21 <andythenorth> are we saying words again? o_O
11:17:15 <andythenorth> it’s not time for road types yet
11:17:23 <andythenorth> wait until I’ve completely finished an RV set
11:17:27 <andythenorth> then change the spec :P
11:17:36 <andythenorth> that’s the standard way to do it
11:29:58 <planetmaker> feel free to step on his toes :)
11:31:46 * planetmaker is out, grabbing arrows and bow and enjoying the 20Ĉ Sunday afternoon, though
11:32:04 <peter1138> dxtr, no, not _that_ game.
11:40:37 <supermop> bedtime in melbourne
11:48:25 <peter1138> Skin sofa, skin sofa, urgh urgh urgh urgh urggghh
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13:05:06 <maddy_> oh dear, I am wondering if I can efficiently merge the 4 lines which come from 2 stations into my 2 mainline tracks...or do I have to add a 3rd track to the mainline
13:06:47 <maddy_> the trains come from 2 lines initially to the stations, so in theory they should only need 2 outgoing lines too
13:07:28 <maddy_> my current 4-to-2 merger is somewhat a bottleneck
13:16:05 <V453000> expand the parts which are bottleneck
13:16:14 <V453000> if 2 lines arent enough, there you have your answer - you need 3
13:16:40 <V453000> if 2 lines are enough for entrance, 2 should be enough for exit in general, then the merger is probably not doing a good job
13:20:18 <maddy_> is it good/bad idea to first do a 4-to-3 merger, and then later another 3-to-2?
13:20:54 <maddy_> I am looking at openttdcoop wiki for some examples
13:24:25 <V453000> if you can do 3->2 then there is probably no reason to have 3 lines before it - if 2 are only needed
13:24:35 <V453000> expand what breaks/is bottleneck
13:28:41 <V453000> if you want to learn quicker, just join some of the servers :) people there are helpful
13:31:33 <maddy_> thanks, I might try it one day
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16:19:53 <Phreeze> anybody know where to by really thin Torx Bits in europe ?
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17:22:43 <andythenorth> frosch123: can you think of any quick hacks I could make to SV for variety?
17:22:58 <andythenorth> I need to play a game to test newgrfs, bored of existing GS
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18:45:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26437 trunk/src/lang/belarusian.txt (2014-03-30 18:45:12 UTC)
18:45:25 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:26 <DorpsGek> belarusian - 1 changes by Wowanxm
18:45:52 <planetmaker> uh... nightly now one hour later, eh?
18:46:09 <planetmaker> §$)&!§)? daylight saving time
18:46:53 <__ln___> solar time nightlies \o/
18:49:27 <Wolf01> stupid dst, just move the clock of half an hour and keep that forever
18:50:15 <planetmaker> one or the other would do. Actually normal time would do well. As then the sun is above horizon the same time before and after noon
18:53:16 <Phreeze> all the "pros" for DST don't work anyway, like light on roads
18:53:43 <planetmaker> the change from or to dst has a proven detrimental economic effect even
18:53:50 <planetmaker> due to reduced productivity
18:54:25 <maddy_> I am going to publish my small patch for station 'efficiency rating'
18:54:44 <Phreeze> i slept 5 hours...problem was: party, then dst, then get up early to move somebodys stuff...
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19:30:37 <planetmaker> maddy_, I believe your patch fails badly for a station which provides more than a single cargo
19:31:09 <planetmaker> thus for every farm. And most stations in towns which also supply mail
19:32:16 <planetmaker> and don't you think that the existing cargo rating at a station is a much better - and already existing - proxy to whether that cargo needs more attention at that station?
19:33:07 <maddy_> planetmaker: yes, it has some shortcomings, which is why I said it's quick-and-dirty :)
19:33:58 <maddy_> cargo rating has some problems, for my purpose
19:34:33 <rubidium> agreed planetmaker, we should opt for a time system where noon is exactly between sunrise and sunset. That'll be fun ;)
19:35:15 <planetmaker> rubidium, on average that's the case at the reference meridian of the time zone ;)
19:35:24 <maddy_> for one, I need to see all the values for all stations at one glance, without opening individual station dialogs
19:36:10 * rubidium will be happy when local time and UTC are the same ;)
19:36:18 <planetmaker> maddy_, that's a bad argument for inventing yet another measure. It's rather an argument for using it ;)
19:36:25 <maddy_> secondly, the scale is small and is not precise enough, a cargo rating of 72 might be fully served, but a 68 might need additional train
19:37:03 <maddy_> thirdly, as far as I know, cargo rating only shows if you do not have enough trains, but does not penalize for having too many
19:37:23 <planetmaker> it does not do that, yes
19:40:30 <maddy_> but I realize this is a very crude way of doing it, and only works for specific game type / play style, which is why I was a bit hesitant about publishing it at all
19:41:22 <planetmaker> hardly ever wrong with publishing it. Though not everything can go into trunk :)
19:42:18 <planetmaker> Trunk concepts need to work for a few more cases, I'm afraid
19:43:15 <planetmaker> not to deter you. If it helps you - that's totally fine.
19:43:23 <planetmaker> Others also might find it helpful
19:43:49 <planetmaker> And it at least helps to serve as nice demonstration on how one can get started
19:44:55 <maddy_> that's the purpose, if anything, to see if anyone else needs it (or something similar), it's not intended for trunk really :)
19:46:19 <planetmaker> but I don't know. I toyed with other patches before
19:49:17 <planetmaker> all I wanted to say: my first patch in trunk was much smaller ;)
19:49:30 <planetmaker> and solved much less :)
19:49:47 <frosch123> what did you pay smatz for it? :p
19:50:05 <planetmaker> possibly a cookie. Or the promise to not bother him for another day or so :P
19:50:23 <frosch123> ah, the usual treat :p
19:50:38 <frosch123> "if you don't solve my problem, i'll ask you again tomorrow" :)
19:50:59 <planetmaker> :) yeah. We were indeed playing then on the PublicServer with some boats as far as I recall
19:51:06 <planetmaker> It was a very serious problem ;)
19:51:31 <glx> pathfinding taking too much ressources ?
19:51:39 <planetmaker> no, building aqueducts :P
19:51:45 <planetmaker> taking too much time :)
19:52:31 <maddy_> I also think most players do not care to optimize their train counts to the level I do, so I am not sure this would be 'trunkable' even if cleaned up, fixed, etc
19:52:52 <planetmaker> important is that yu have fun, maddy_ :)
19:53:06 <frosch123> maddy_: that's no problem. we always make fun of people who have more tracks than trains
19:53:50 <maddy_> no but you introduced an interesting thought for me, should I make quick-and-dirty patches that I use myself, or should I try to make more polished stuff which could be included in trunk one day
19:54:09 <frosch123> always do the one which is most fun for you
19:54:24 <glx> quick-and-dirty even for personal use only is never a good idea
19:54:50 <frosch123> yeah, but i guess you have to learn that yourself :p
19:54:53 <planetmaker> well. It can serve the purpose to teach yourself something, glx :)
19:58:13 <maddy_> and the cargo rating itself, that might use some work too :) I am doing the best I can but I got 70 :) damn station guys want fresh new trains and a statue in their town to be happy
19:58:37 <planetmaker> well, getting 100 is about a thing near-impossible, yes
19:58:58 <frosch123> you just need 200ikmh trains
19:59:01 <planetmaker> it's a bit weired. The statue thing... well...
19:59:28 <planetmaker> yeah. have a new maglev train come and pickup things every 3 days
20:01:54 <planetmaker> I remember one game on a competitive server where some guy started to annoy me
20:02:20 <planetmaker> But I knew how to convince him to not compete for the industries I served :)
20:02:31 <planetmaker> two stations, both better rating then than him ;)
20:02:55 <maddy_> by using the statue trick?
20:03:02 <planetmaker> on station a road station, transfering the stuff to the 1-tile distant train station ;)
20:03:11 <planetmaker> that, too. But he had that, too
20:03:34 <planetmaker> and I autoreplaced the trains every two years or so
20:03:50 <planetmaker> by equivalently appropriate engines. So they were new
20:08:31 <planetmaker> the thing to really know when competing is that only the two highest-ranked stations get any cargo at all
20:08:35 <planetmaker> all others go empty
20:08:55 <planetmaker> that can shut-down services really fast and soundly :)
20:11:40 <maddy_> yeah, detailed knowledge of the game mechanics sure is handy in some situations
20:17:16 <maddy_> yeah night for me too, bye
20:21:22 <planetmaker> good night then :)
20:23:01 <Eddi|zuHause> you have too fiew jerrys
20:32:48 <planetmaker> lol, Eddi|zuHause :)
20:33:06 <planetmaker> not sure it's still popular with today's youths
20:34:07 <andythenorth> due to the violence
20:39:16 <andythenorth> wonder if these trucks are under-powered
20:39:31 * andythenorth needs to play a test game :P
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21:14:57 <supermop> coffee time in melbourne
21:20:51 <FLHerne> tea-and-then-bed time here
21:21:52 <supermop> those sound like conflicting activities
21:24:08 <planetmaker> without the 'then' they are
21:24:39 <FLHerne> Meh. Given my level of caffeine addiction, one mug won't make the slightest difference :-/
21:25:45 * FLHerne has contemplated switching to coffe instead
21:26:58 <supermop> finished a bag of rwandan from one roaster yesterday and have opened a new el salvadoran today
21:27:21 <supermop> i spend a lot of money on coffee, but really good tea is even more $$$$
21:27:52 <supermop> so i don't have much accoutrement for it here
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21:30:20 <planetmaker> tea usually is needed in smaller quantities
21:30:30 <planetmaker> 500g of tea will get you much further than 500g of coffee
21:32:46 <planetmaker> so from my experience, a good cup of first-grade tea can be made much cheaper still than an equivalently good cup of coffee
21:33:00 <FLHerne> planetmaker: Depends if you're measuring by dry mass or in hot-drink form
21:33:16 <planetmaker> I'm mostly interested in the latter
21:33:25 <planetmaker> for 500g you likely can spend more on tea
21:33:34 <planetmaker> s/for 500g/per unit mass/
21:33:43 <planetmaker> not sure though :)
21:35:11 <planetmaker> and I still do :)
21:37:22 <FLHerne> I don't usually go for anything fancier than I can buy in the local small food-shop, but I'll concede the superiority of the expensive stuff
21:38:04 * NGC3982 spends much money on coffee, but somehow never finds his favourites among the more expencive sorts.
21:38:19 <planetmaker> for the everyday tea I have something cheaper, too :)
21:38:32 <planetmaker> from the common grocery
21:38:41 <supermop> i like yorkshire tea for everyday but it is too $$$ in australia
21:39:05 <supermop> also i don't have a teapot here
21:40:52 <Supercheese> I just buy French Roasts from whatever brand is cheap
21:42:38 * NGC3982 loves the Moka brewer.
21:43:34 <planetmaker> NGC3982, maybe your problem is to use a 'brewer' instead of really hand-making the coffee for good quality :)
21:46:21 <supermop> moka is a great design icon, but yes a simple pour-over drip cone gives you better coffee
21:51:43 <NGC3982> That is incorrect, since "better coffee" does not exist.
21:52:13 <NGC3982> Although, a drip cone is nice.
21:52:26 <NGC3982> I also enjoy the siphon, but that get's a + for flare.
21:54:17 <supermop> im thinking of buying a siphon here
21:54:30 <supermop> but i am not sure if that is going to get approval
21:58:15 <supermop> its a big visually load thing to be taking up space in the kitchen
21:58:36 <supermop> i might be the designer in the house, but I am certainly not the client
21:59:45 <supermop> hmm i can hear the metro trains from here
21:59:59 <supermop> quiet morning i guess
22:00:40 <NGC3982> Metro? Morning? The US?
22:00:46 <NGC3982> It's exactly midnight around here.
22:00:58 <supermop> i moved to melbourne a couple months ago
22:01:45 <supermop> and in nyc it was certainly a subway, not a metro
22:02:13 <supermop> unless you lived by an elevated line you felt it from your kitchen but did not hear it
22:04:04 <supermop> what you really need is a 2-group la Marzocco machine in your kitchen
22:09:18 <supermop> to be serious though, a grinder helps more than any fancy brewing equipment
22:10:00 <supermop> just being able to grind the beans right before you use them is the single best improvement you can make to home brewed coffee
22:10:19 <Supercheese> Grind, cone filter, pour hot water over
22:10:32 <Supercheese> cheap, easy, and excellent results
22:11:02 <supermop> Supercheese: it can get expensive if you keep trying to get a better and better kettle
22:11:45 <supermop> narrower spout, better handle geometry, more temperature precision
22:13:28 <Supercheese> Heh, well, my parents still use the kettle they bought back in Scotland, 24 years ago
22:13:41 <Supercheese> with the weird UK->US power adaptor
22:13:50 <Supercheese> it's worked very well for them
22:14:00 <supermop> i recently got the bonavita variable temperature gooseneck one here
22:14:32 <supermop> but in the us i used a non-electric kettle with a thermometer stuck in
22:15:10 <supermop> for the price of the bonavita i could have got a cheap siphon
22:15:38 <supermop> but at least the other people in the house can use this for tea or french press too
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