IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-03-18
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00:03:00 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln___: got a 4096 and a 2048 with 65772 points on my first game
00:32:41 <peter1139> Eh... game ends at 2048 :S
00:32:49 <peter1139> Oh, there's a keep going. Ok.
00:54:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i got a 8192 on the normal one
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01:01:32 <_habnabit> in subtropical, if a city says 'growing every N days' after food/water have been delivered, and a month goes by where the city doesn't get food/water, does the counter for growth reset? or does it count down just on months where the city is watered/fed?
01:01:43 <_habnabit> i'm not entirely sure how city growth happens
01:06:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it stops at the current value and then continues
01:07:38 <_habnabit> just as long as it doesn't reset, haha
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11:45:44 <Eddi|zuHause> weird. i set my wall clock two days ago, and it's running 15 minutes late...
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11:54:02 <__ln___> i think the rest of the world is running 15 minutes early
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13:31:15 <peter1139> How many SEO experts does it take to screw in a light-bulb, bulb, light, eco bulb, lighting, electricity, hardcore, xxx ?
13:32:54 <Eddi|zuHause> "search enginge optimisation"
13:33:11 <Eddi|zuHause> things you do so your page gets first result on google
13:35:46 <Flygon_> brb, getting my site on the first page when googling "Pokemon"
13:35:48 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
14:19:08 <Pinkbeast> Celestar: Spam by any other name would smell as spammy
14:21:29 <NGC3982> SEO is not spam related?
14:21:48 <NGC3982> Although, maybe a tad ambitious.
14:31:42 <Flygon> peter1139: How many SEO experts would it take to get Trainz 2012 running on a desktop PC?
14:31:46 <Flygon> I need to calculate it
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14:56:58 <Flygon> Despite the fact that i have actually drawn art with that exact flaw...
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15:15:35 <Pikka> I also stopped lengthening the vehicles in the horizontal and vertical views. I'm getting used to it. :P plus there's (a little) hope that if newgrf sets are released with correct-length vehicles, a dev might be willing to revisit the issue ;)
15:35:55 <juzza1> rendering some models myself and was wondering if you already found a nicer solution, but i guess i'll go with shortening diagonal views for now
15:36:51 <Flygon> brb $$$ nagging friends to make Vic AUS set that happens to have realistic lengths :B
15:37:46 <Pikka> juzza1; if you're rendering, I'd just do them straight, don't shorten them :)
15:38:41 <Pikka> no sense in doing extra work just to make your sprites look wrong...
15:40:35 * Pinkbeast sees the spectre of mixed stretched and unstretched consists looming
15:41:03 <planetmaker> Pikka: that's actually a good approach. It gives more reason to actually revisit it and renders the argument 'would break everything' less correct ;)
15:41:15 <Pikka> that's my thinking, planetmaker :)
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16:00:38 <juzza1> I found an automated & non-destructive way to shorten the diagonals in blender, so no extra work required. But i'll keep your argument in mind though, if when i actually create something playable :P
16:04:20 <planetmaker> 32bpp seems to be the new kid in town :D
16:05:05 <Pikka> he didn't say he was doing 32bpp ;)
16:06:02 <planetmaker> that's true. But honestly, if you render, it would be somewhat stupid to not include 32bpp at least as well :)
16:06:26 <planetmaker> or so I believe. I've little experience with rendering myself
16:06:44 <peter1139> Oh, the old 28/29/32 length issue...
16:06:52 <peter1139> Yeah, 32 bummed that one up.
16:07:44 <Pikka> true. rendering in 8bpp (a la av8) is a huge pain. :)
16:09:33 <Pinkbeast> Remember I'm the person who built the YAMC YS-11 :-)
16:10:19 <Pinkbeast> Well, actually, I probably built the locomotive equivalent of the YAMC YS-11 but you know what I mean
16:11:36 <peter1139> Hey whatever happened to my RGB company colours patch...
16:12:07 <planetmaker> growing tentacles in a dark corner?
16:13:03 <planetmaker> what did it change?
16:13:24 <peter1139> Free-RGB company colours...
16:13:40 <Eddi|zuHause> weird shades of green and pink
16:14:55 <planetmaker> still useull, I recon
16:15:14 <peter1139> gotta love that van's offsets...
16:15:51 <planetmaker> the train also has interesting ones
16:15:51 <Xaroth|Work> that truck looks attached to the train as well
16:16:00 <peter1139> Yeah the train's offsets are wrong too.
16:16:01 <Pikka> I *suppose* if I make a base set, I should use recolour masks
16:16:46 <peter1139> Good luck with the edges...
16:17:14 <peter1139> Also I see I still suck at UI design... those colours sliders :p
16:17:55 <planetmaker> it misses adjacent or beneath the sliders a field where I can enter explicitly the colour value
16:18:17 <peter1139> And even a label...
16:20:51 <peter1139> Bah, still not 4096 in that game...
16:21:09 <peter1139> Yeah, 2048's hard enough.
16:22:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not that hard if you can follow your strategy, but at certain points it forces you to make a move against this strategy, and then you're screwed
16:23:51 <SpComb> what? It's exactly the same gameplay mechanic :)
16:25:43 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: how many years does this take? :p
16:26:22 <SpComb> if 2048 is 2 minutes then 9007199254740992 would be somewhere around 16000 years
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16:30:33 <planetmaker> 4096 size, peter1139?
16:31:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i think there's a 16384 wobbling about in there now
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17:11:10 <peter1139> planetmaker, nah, just carrying on past 2048.
17:11:24 <peter1139> Though there's an 8192 one that's the same size... must be hard :S
17:14:17 <Eddi|zuHause> not that hard, just licky
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17:25:06 <peter1139> 13 months of commits...
17:28:17 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody touched GUI code :p
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17:37:06 <peter1139> Yeah, right, let's see if this builds...
17:37:20 <peter1139> Probably should've test-compiled each rebase fix.
17:37:29 <peter1139> Gotta live dangerously :D
17:38:08 <Eddi|zuHause> put the rebases into a higher level versioning system :p
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17:45:16 <peter1139> Hmm, WindowDescs not longer const.
17:49:53 <peter1139> I remember when ottd took 15 seconds to compile on this machine :S
18:00:25 <peter1139> You know you've done good when it all compiles. And then fails to link.
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18:13:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r26412 /branches/1.4 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2014-03-18 18:13:33 UTC)
18:13:40 <DorpsGek> [1.4] -Change: We have a new titlegame (Fleashosio)
18:36:20 <Eddi|zuHause> you've had the same machine since the C++ port?
18:45:25 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26413 /trunk/src/lang (luxembourgish.txt polish.txt) (2014-03-18 18:45:17 UTC)
18:45:26 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:27 <DorpsGek> luxembourgish - 2 changes by Phreeze
18:45:28 <DorpsGek> polish - 1 changes by xaxa
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19:16:45 <Lacsap> Does anyone know why music doesnt work on ottd for mac?
19:17:06 <Lacsap> Everuthing else work even sound FX so I really don't get it
19:18:08 <andythenorth> Lacsap: which OS X?
19:18:26 <andythenorth> not working for me either
19:18:38 <andythenorth> but I'm sure it works on my wife's mac when our toddler plays
19:19:28 <Lacsap> hmm thats really weird, I tried to download all music sets but none of them works
19:19:41 <Lacsap> But all sounds FX works
19:22:07 <andythenorth> what ottd version?
19:22:54 <andythenorth> ok it works for me if I compile my own
19:23:00 <andythenorth> but not with a pre-compiled binary
19:23:31 <Lacsap> Seems to be a bug reading the sounds volume value from the forum I checked
19:23:49 <Lacsap> When you get in a game just click the music icon and move the music volume slider
19:25:17 <andythenorth> Lacsap: just won't play for me
19:25:21 <andythenorth> playback doesn't start
19:25:29 <andythenorth> might be a different issue :P
19:26:43 <Lacsap> andythenorth Did you click the play button after moving the slider?
19:28:29 <Lacsap> Hmmm then I really have no idea what it could be:/
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19:36:49 <Phreeze> anybody uses mirc ? Mine's asking for registration...is there a free skinnable good alternative ?
19:39:57 <Lacsap> On my windows machine I'm using HexChat which is pretty nice but it's a lot different from Mirc
19:49:46 * Pinkbeast fails to comprehend "skinnable good"
19:51:59 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26414 /branches/1.4 (13 files in 4 dirs) (2014-03-18 19:51:54 UTC)
19:52:00 <DorpsGek> [1.4] -Update: documentation
20:01:08 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26415 tags/1.4.0-RC1/ (2014-03-18 20:01:02 UTC)
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20:16:59 * andythenorth choosing truck names
20:20:41 <andythenorth> Albert is on my list :
20:20:51 <andythenorth> coincidentally :P
20:20:59 <andythenorth> maybe I should name a roster after devs
20:21:22 *** Alberth is now known as notadev
20:22:17 <andythenorth> notadev: you should have changed to notatruck
20:23:00 <notadev> andythenorth: nah, that's too close to your acronyms :p
20:24:49 *** notadev is now known as Alberth
20:33:28 <V453000> thoughts about making everything purchaseable in nuts 1-tile long?
20:33:36 <V453000> e.g. 2 or 4 articulated wagons
20:34:01 <V453000> losing-wagons-during-autoreplace-to-longer-engines not anymore ?:D
20:34:05 <andythenorth> I don't use nuts much, but it would make sense
20:34:42 <V453000> it makes a lot of sense :d
20:34:59 <V453000> only thing you lose is amount of flexibility and freedom to get e.g. 1.5 tile worth of engines (3)
20:36:25 <andythenorth> I'm not your best source of feedback though :)
20:36:33 <andythenorth> not being a dedicated user of NUTS...
20:36:54 <V453000> sane logic is enough you dont have to use things to logically think
20:37:27 <V453000> nobody uses n.5 tile trains anyway
20:38:08 <Alberth> not sure, I usually add wagons until it looks alright :)
20:38:51 <frosch123> V453000: i don't think it is needed
20:38:51 <planetmaker> V453000, not 1-tile but 0.5 tile
20:38:54 <V453000> but that until can be even simplier
20:38:58 <frosch123> when do you autoreplace to a different engine class?
20:39:00 <planetmaker> otherwise everything is articulated...
20:39:12 <V453000> obviously pm, things would indeed be articulated to 1 tile
20:39:12 <frosch123> it's only important that vehicles of the same class have the same length
20:39:27 <planetmaker> and the one-wagon composition for e.g. supplies or mail doesn't work too well then either
20:39:33 <V453000> its not frosch123, once you autoreplace to any 1-tile train, you cant go back to 0.5 tile train without missing oen wagon
20:39:38 <frosch123> and i don't want a small engine to be one tile long :p
20:39:54 <V453000> pm, that can be solved by giving the engine capacity - or to some engines
20:40:10 <V453000> small engine can be articulated with a tender for example
20:40:32 <andythenorth> are they all 0.5 or 1 tile currently?
20:40:34 <Alberth> just don't care about the 0.5 tile :)
20:40:56 <planetmaker> I never found it difficult to the the length right with 0.5-tile vehicles
20:41:03 <planetmaker> it only gets ugly for other lengths
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20:41:06 <frosch123> andythenorth: nuts specifically assembles short wagons to 0.5 tile long articulated units
20:41:22 <frosch123> which is an incredible nice way to make autoreplace work with wagon length
20:41:38 <frosch123> and makes every train grf from before nuts look like shit
20:41:42 <V453000> pm I know, not difficult there, the autoreplace is bigger part ... and clicking 2 times instead of 5 is just convenient
20:41:55 <frosch123> it was the most attonishing feature i noticed when first playing with nuts
20:42:12 <andythenorth> I am +1 to that feature, I have seen it
20:42:19 <andythenorth> maybe I could persuade Dan to do it in in IH
20:42:25 <V453000> I agree, it is one of the greatest ones tbh
20:42:31 <andythenorth> but I think the 10/8 vehicles are here to stay in IH
20:42:33 <V453000> you just need 4/8 wagons
20:42:43 <V453000> make it 16/8 I do that too
20:43:11 <frosch123> V453000: i am worried about the trailer of animal trains
20:43:13 <andythenorth> 20/16 doesn't work
20:43:21 <andythenorth> when do 10s and eights converge?
20:43:30 <V453000> frosch123: just articulate a couple more =D
20:44:19 <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
20:44:39 <V453000> many of them are 1-tile already in fact
20:45:09 <V453000> making wagons 1-tile (double-articulateld in compare to what there is now), is just for convenience when purchasing but isnt necessary at all
20:49:58 <planetmaker> well. Maybe it would work. Dunno :)
20:50:09 <planetmaker> newgrf parameter! :P
20:50:19 <V453000> this is way too brutal for a parameter imo :)
20:50:40 <V453000> I will add a parameter to have only universal wagons and not the other 3 flatbed/hopper/tanker, that yeah
20:50:58 <V453000> but changing length of trains :D idk
20:53:40 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r26416 trunk/src/company_gui.cpp (2014-03-18 20:53:34 UTC)
20:53:41 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5947]: Shares button state was not appropriately updated when switching setting or company (frosch)
20:57:00 <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.4.0-RC1, 1.3.3
20:57:00 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.4.0-RC1, 1.3.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices"
21:01:24 <planetmaker> but I really really like the NUTS overview of vehicles
21:01:40 <planetmaker> and the clear structuring into sections / use cases
21:02:06 <planetmaker> not used too often :P
21:02:07 <V453000> btw I made it work with expiring vehicles already
21:02:22 <V453000> only the bottom line of final choice remains in late years
21:02:33 <V453000> the purchase menu started getting a tad fat :D
21:03:00 <V453000> best part is anybody can turn that off :)
21:03:06 <V453000> or even in running game and resetengines
21:03:53 <frosch123> nuts engine overview always makes me think about chemistry :p
21:04:24 <V453000> makes me think about drugs
21:05:04 <V453000> I guess there is no way to make articulated engine also double-headed eh :D
21:05:21 <V453000> suppose I could make them wagons simply look as an engine head at the rear, solved
21:07:02 <V453000> pm I said that to about everybody, draw a scheme before making a newgrf, if it makes sense, it might be useful ... but shit can you do :)
21:09:51 <dxtr> Can I compile openttd without graphical libraries if I intend to run it on a dedicated server?
21:10:32 <Alberth> compiling is not problem, running it, is :)
21:11:06 <Alberth> or do you mean video drivers with "graphical libraries" ?
21:11:09 <Phreeze> cool set, but all look the same ^^
21:11:26 <Alberth> if you do, yes you can, there is a null video driver
21:12:57 <Alberth> not sure how much you will gain, having a bit of unused video code shouldn't hurt much
21:13:12 <V453000> looks amazing andythenorth
21:14:13 * Alberth ponders about a truckname generator
21:15:11 <frosch123> is that related to the aroai name generator?
21:15:28 <dxtr> Alberth: The issue being that I don't have X or a monitor connected
21:15:43 <dxtr> And therefore I don't have SDL or <insert library name here> installed
21:15:52 <dxtr> And I just assumed I needed SDL
21:16:02 <frosch123> dxtr: configure --enable-dedicated
21:16:19 <frosch123> that's as few dependencies as it gets
21:17:14 <frosch123> but you will need the base graphics nevertheless due to weird histerical reaons
21:17:51 <dxtr> I don't like weird hysterical reasons :/
21:18:10 <frosch123> i believe there is a minmal set "nogfx" or so :)
21:19:03 <planetmaker> I'm not sure there is :)
21:20:01 <frosch123> there is a branch, no idea whether it works
21:20:26 <frosch123> but well, it is only disk space
21:21:01 <frosch123> without blitter no spritecache, and thus no actual sprites loaded
21:21:15 <frosch123> only the weird ones :)
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22:05:10 <andythenorth> Alberth: what would your truck name inputs be?
22:06:03 <frosch123> just pick some children series
22:06:09 <frosch123> and same them after the characters
22:06:18 <frosch123> muppets or something
22:06:22 <Alberth> truck name fragments, just like the town name generator?
22:06:49 <frosch123> little pony may be weird for "trucks" though :p
22:07:12 <andythenorth> Alberth: so all same graphics?
22:07:17 <andythenorth> just randomise some stats?
22:07:59 <Alberth> euhm, how are trucknames related to graphics or stats?
22:19:33 <andythenorth> Alberth: once you've made names, you have to make a grf :)
22:19:38 <andythenorth> it's only a small step from one to the other
22:19:44 <andythenorth> names are the major part of the work ;)
22:20:50 <Alberth> perhaps do it the other way around? then you have stats to find a fitting name :)
22:22:56 <V453000> if you pick names by songs, you get WAY more names than you could possibly use :D
22:23:10 <V453000> I am most limited by "amount of functionally useful models I thought of"
22:23:19 <V453000> which is about 45 atm :D
22:23:51 <Alberth> most songs are about love, which is a lovely topic as well
22:24:19 <V453000> I dont have songs about love in nuts.
22:27:55 <Alberth> being in love is being nuts in a good way :p
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22:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> thoughts about making everything purchaseable in nuts 1-tile long? <-- for short (2 or 3 tiles) trains it may be bad for gameplay if you have to "waste" a whole tile for the engine
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22:53:40 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: if the engine has thesame amount of capacity as one wagon, it doesnt change a thing :)
22:54:01 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: then what's the point of wagons?
22:54:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but they are "realistic" :p
22:54:26 <V453000> still have double the capacity per tile, and have no power
22:54:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i find the idea weird.
22:54:47 <V453000> probably even more than doble, I wont give trains full 1 wagon of capacity, only to some
22:54:54 <V453000> the idea is functionally perfect
22:54:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you mix two things that shouldn't be mixed
22:54:59 <andythenorth> V453000: don't bother with wagons and engines
22:55:07 <andythenorth> powered, with cargo capacity
22:55:19 <V453000> that is functionally less interesting
22:55:30 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: "shouldnt" says who :P
22:55:49 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: my software engineering lecture
22:56:10 <V453000> I dont think that has anything to do with train able to load coal? :D
22:56:36 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: it's all software
22:57:18 <V453000> so please how is allowing trains to carry cargo (pax trains almost always do that btw) a problem software-wise? :D
22:57:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think "it goes against my core beliefs" will stop you :p
22:57:59 <V453000> is loading pax/mail/valu/diam/gold against your core belief? :D
22:58:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i actually have an engine like that (minus the pax) :p
22:59:01 <V453000> how is coal different
22:59:12 <V453000> just another cargo label software wise
22:59:37 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: the point was, if you focus on gameplay instead of "realism", why have the difference between wagons and engines at all?
23:00:14 <V453000> because one gives power, one doesnt :)
23:00:19 <V453000> more trains or more wagons
23:00:38 <V453000> plus it obviously is aesthetically nice
23:01:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think either of us are going to be convinced tonight :p
23:01:46 <V453000> no, probably not :D ps, can engine have more than 32k power? I am unable to feed nml more than 32k :d
23:01:56 <V453000> but I believe 65k should be max
23:02:42 <V453000> I didnt put that there
23:02:52 <V453000> I just put 40 000 and it broke :D
23:03:16 <V453000> how do I add the units to it if it is by a switch?
23:03:22 <V453000> power: magice4_wetrail_power_switch;
23:04:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you can use units in switches
23:04:59 <V453000> is there a way to append it before the ";" in the power definition somehow?
23:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, callback results are 15 bits, not 16 bits
23:05:18 <V453000> so the only thing is that I cant define it by callback?
23:05:35 <V453000> so it has to be done in the item property thing?
23:05:38 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, should work as property
23:05:46 <V453000> thanks, will try right away
23:08:46 <V453000> btw Eddi I will make an exception for you and leave one of the engine classes as 8/8 not 16/8 :P
23:09:34 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds useful. assuming people generally autoreplace within the same class
23:09:48 <V453000> well it is a logic engine so they cant autoreplace to it :D
23:10:19 <V453000> I knew you would appreciate the exception!
23:10:25 <V453000> anyway the power thing works, thanks very much :)
23:11:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the bill is in the mail :)
23:11:33 <V453000> what does that mean? :D
continue to next day ⏵
