IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-02-16
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00:04:36 <Eddi|zuHause> when february the 29th falls on a friday the 13th?
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10:04:42 <Taede> can a gamescript be disabled once the game is running?
10:12:33 <planetmaker> I believe it's made such that they cannot be removed after map generation
10:43:46 <Tazsam> need some help, My ottd don't work, noone can join. Any idea?
10:44:31 <DorpsGek> LordAro: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
10:45:04 <Tazsam> i tried everíthing with that dlink di-524. But for something it's not work
10:50:36 <__ln__> the standard list of procedures for fixing any network related problems that involve any D-Link products: 1. get rid of the D-Link product 2. end of list.
10:53:17 <planetmaker> obviously the connection is also a bit unstable :)
11:10:47 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: that's what skynet must have thought
11:11:43 <__ln__> true, D-Link products are by far not reliable enough to take over the world
11:17:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26341 trunk/src/linkgraph/linkgraphjob.cpp (2014-02-16 11:17:17 UTC)
11:17:24 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5902]: Reroute cargo when automatic distribution is switched off.
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13:25:04 <frosch123> planetmaker: dave is no bot
13:26:01 <frosch123> i am refering to your complanis about so many spam bots in the brithday list
13:26:33 <frosch123> when there are two moderators in it today :p
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14:15:29 <michi_cc> MJP: GetTileType(Town::Get(whatever)->xy) will almost always be of type MP_ROAD in fact. The very first step when growing a town is placing a road on the central tile.
14:21:27 <MJP> so I can only hope there are some houses around, I wonder if there is something else I could do with tile ownership.
14:31:39 <Eddi|zuHause> make a hashtable of all town locations, and check whether the tile is in that list?
14:34:03 <MJP> like the thing used by vehicles? it's worth the try
14:38:42 <Alberth> wouldn't that explode?
14:39:05 <Eddi|zuHause> why? there are usually fewer towns on the map than vehicles
14:40:06 <Alberth> you don't store tiles?
14:40:10 <MJP> only town "centers" would be stored
14:40:18 <Alberth> a quad tree may be useful
14:43:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: the problem at hand is, given a random tile, find the nearest town. currently that loops over all towns, which may be slow when many towns are on the map. the idea was to make a circular tile search (up to a maximum radius) instead
14:43:34 <Eddi|zuHause> but whether a tile is a town center is not stored on the map
14:44:46 <Eddi|zuHause> (we could also just reserve a "town center" bit on MP_ROAD tiles, and also use that to prevent destroying that tile)
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14:56:49 <frosch123> the town center is already today not necessarily a road tile
14:57:01 <frosch123> the growth algorithm checks multiple tiles for road around the center
14:57:19 <planetmaker> it would still be the town center?
14:57:53 <frosch123> wrt. the nearest town thingie... my todo list contains an item to add a cache-style map array, which is not saved, but contains stuff that can be recomputed on load
14:58:08 <frosch123> it also contains stuff like nearest town for all tiles (not only houses or roads)
14:58:08 <michi_cc> frosch123: On map-creation it usually is, though.
14:58:15 <frosch123> which could then also be used for railtypes
14:58:38 <frosch123> yeah, on map creation it is
14:58:43 <frosch123> but eddi did not make that restriction
14:59:02 <planetmaker> what about newly funded towns then?
14:59:44 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the tricky part is funding a town on a map where the condition that all other town centers are on road tiles (legacy maps) is violated
15:00:25 <Eddi|zuHause> but i assume that funding a single town is not performance critical
15:00:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so it could always fall back to the town list algorithm
15:11:19 <Zuu> There are a bug on FS about funding lots of towns in-game using a GS can give high memory usage. However the reporter says that you need his specific openttd.cfg to reproduce the bug.
15:12:34 <Zuu> I don't know if this bug is only in the GS interface or related to town funding. Though the reporter has not been able to find similar issues with other GS APIs.
15:13:02 <planetmaker> would be first nice to be able to reproduce it?
15:18:31 <Zuu> Yes that's the one I had in mind.
15:19:48 <frosch123> mjp wrote something about some cache
15:19:54 <frosch123> but i don't know which cache
15:20:24 <MJP> well, I should have used the right word: Pool
15:20:58 <MJP> wait... I'm not sure... doing too many things at the same time
15:22:08 <frosch123> GenerateTowns resets persistent storage (which i have no idea why that should be affected by founding towns), and it clears the layouter cache
15:22:20 <MJP> FS#5870 and r26310 are "linked"
15:22:23 <frosch123> but those caches are also cleared during the regular game loop
15:22:57 <frosch123> oh, so that code is new
15:23:31 <frosch123> why is the persistent storage affected by funding towns though?
15:23:56 <Zuu> IIRC I placed GenerateTownName so that it will always be called due to some reason. Possible that removing the custom name should give a generated name or that it is done the same in some other part - at least at the time of implementing this API.
15:24:12 <MJP> the problem in GS interface in this case is to call GenerateTownName() when it should not but this is not the real memory problem
15:24:17 <frosch123> yes, calling generatetownname in all cases is intentional
15:27:00 <frosch123> at least now i know that the call of ClearPersistentStorageChanges in GenerateTowns is new :)
15:27:36 <frosch123> i was grepping for those yesterday, and really wondered who put it there :p
15:30:50 <MJP> why force the GenerateTownName() call when a name is provided?
15:31:02 <frosch123> you can reset custom names
15:31:12 <frosch123> and it's a bit silly if all gs funded towns have the same name
15:32:33 <MJP> even though CmdRenameTown() checks IsUniqueTownName()... weird
15:33:04 <MJP> hmmm, reset is the key word here
15:33:46 <frosch123> names are not really guaranteed to be unique
15:33:51 <frosch123> when it comes to renaming and resetting
15:34:23 <Zuu> If there is a bit free somewhere or a town parts value that is guarenteed to not be used, I guess generating the town name parts could be delayed until a user reset the town name.
15:34:38 <frosch123> for most of the stuff in the game that is not possible anyway, since vehicle names and such are translated
15:35:10 <frosch123> Zuu: i don't think that is necessary. no normal script generates thousands of towns
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15:35:52 <frosch123> working on ottd deal with it better is nice, but i think adding a flag for "generate name later" is a bit over the top, isn't it? :p
15:36:03 <Zuu> Only if the script tries to implement town + industry generation for games where the user is asked to set default town/industry generation to low/none.
15:37:01 <Zuu> I think allocating more memory for that flag is over the top, unless bits for it has already been reserved.
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16:15:38 <MJP> frosch123, yes, your diff fixes the memory problem exposed in FS#5870 (at least on my system)
16:16:39 <frosch123> ok, thanks for testing :)
16:24:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26342 trunk/src/thread/thread.h (2014-02-16 16:24:41 UTC)
16:24:49 <DorpsGek> -Add: A mutex locker class.
16:25:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26343 /trunk/src (core/smallstack_type.hpp station.cpp) (2014-02-16 16:25:18 UTC)
16:25:24 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Rewrite SmallStack so that it doesn't use a pool and is reentrant.
16:31:23 <frosch123> definitely safety frist
16:31:36 <frosch123> ideally glue the cargo to the wagon
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16:44:00 <Pikka> is that strapped-down gravel, Rubidium?
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16:57:25 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, at normal vision, which text size (in cm) should one be able to read from 3m distance?
17:01:11 <Japa> The text on my IRC window right now is about 3-4mm tall
17:01:15 <frosch123> with ideal light conditions only though
17:01:36 <planetmaker> I'd guess around 1cm?
17:02:32 <Japa> So for text to look the same at 3m, it'd have to be about 2cm
17:02:34 <frosch123> Japa: you are quite close to the screen
17:02:46 <Eddi|zuHause> the numbers i have are about 8mm high, and if i lean backwards 30cm more, they become blurry
17:03:00 <frosch123> i cannot touch my screen by reaching out with my arm
17:03:35 <Japa> I'm on my laptop, on which I am typing, and it has a pretty high dpi screen
17:04:00 <Japa> If I reach out my arm, the screen is midway between wrist and elbow
17:04:03 <frosch123> well, there is some variety on how much i lean it
17:04:05 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r26344 trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp (2014-02-16 17:03:58 UTC)
17:04:06 <DorpsGek> -Change [FS#5907]: Do not flood shores of type MP_TREE needlessly (MJP)
17:04:09 <frosch123> so, yeah, i can touch it when i want to
17:04:40 <Eddi|zuHause> "blurry" as in "you can make out words, but individual letters become problematic"
17:05:19 <Japa> Anyway, yeah, back to the original question, I wouldn't want to read smaller than 2cm text at 3m generally. I'd be able to read smaller, but not something I'd want to use for general use.
17:05:51 <Japa> 1cm text would be a 'pause what you're doing and pay attention to see what's being said' kind of thing
17:06:04 <Japa> rather than a 'casually glance at to get the meaning' kind of thing.
17:07:06 <frosch123> my font seems to be around 3mm as well for around 1m distance
17:07:30 <frosch123> i like small fonts, but my brother messes up my browser settings whenever he uses my computer :s
17:07:51 <frosch123> but well, i have no normal vision
17:07:56 <Eddi|zuHause> give him a different user :p
17:07:59 <Japa> I just tested, and the text on this screen right now, I can read upto 2m away
17:08:54 <frosch123> well, at around 1.5m i would rather put on my glasses
17:09:10 <V453000> Rubidium: I haz worse :P see chameleon hoppers
17:09:11 <frosch123> (which i usually do not wear at home)
17:09:25 <frosch123> V453000: what, you tie animals to wagons?
17:09:38 <frosch123> i thought they would enter on your own
17:09:47 <V453000> animals aint hopper ... bulk cargoes are in "bricks" there
17:10:07 <V453000> the bastards are on drugs and then forced to enter
17:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, that font i can read on smaller sizes than the other one...
17:11:44 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i should try white background
17:12:11 <frosch123> hmm, ReduceLineCache is not that expensive to call
17:12:32 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, is there an easy way to "invert" the current X output?
17:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean colour invert
17:14:50 <Eddi|zuHause> black->white etc
17:15:20 <Eddi|zuHause> my b/w laptop from 25 years ago had this feature :)
17:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause> (i think it actually had 4 greyscales which it used to interpolate 256 greyscale values)
17:16:34 <frosch123> yeah, i also had a b/w crt with that feature
17:16:46 <frosch123> though i have no clue why, it was usually painful to watch
17:16:58 <frosch123> maybe it was meant the other way around: turn a mostly white screen into a black one
17:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> well for the laptop it was sort of a power save feature: black costs more power than white, so the usually black terminals would be inverted by default, and when it switched into a graphics mode, it switched off inversion by default
17:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the theory to be tested was: "bright text on dark background is harder to read from a distance than dark text on bright background"
17:25:31 <bolli> I have the desync issue again
17:25:47 <bolli> to the point that when somebody joins a company it immediately kills all the connections
17:30:01 <planetmaker> bolli, you got a savegame, and when you load that it happens again? That kind of reproducable?
17:30:43 <bolli> But it goes through a period of about 15 minutes of doing as soon as it unpauses then stops doing it
17:30:57 <bolli> I've got a save of when it was doing it
17:31:02 <bolli> but I haven't yet tried loading it
17:33:03 <Eddi|zuHause> usually you need a save from slightly before it starts doing it
17:33:04 <planetmaker> the point about desync is it starts to go wrong *somewhen*
17:33:25 <bolli> yeah, but I don't use autosave on the server due to lack of disk space...
17:35:58 <LordAro> lack of disk space? how low are you?
17:36:09 <LordAro> save games are rarely more than 10MB each
17:36:30 <bolli> Well, I prefer not to use it
17:36:44 <bolli> but I use the server for other stuff too
17:36:52 <planetmaker> lol 34GB available? that's not low
17:36:57 <LordAro> just up the autosave limit to 100, or something
17:37:11 <planetmaker> that doesn't apply to desync debugging, LordAro
17:37:22 <planetmaker> bolli, then, try to get really useful data
17:37:28 <planetmaker> debug_level desync=3
17:37:35 <bolli> I had it at that for a while
17:37:38 <planetmaker> load filename.sav
17:37:45 <bolli> as soon as I did that it stopped
17:37:58 <planetmaker> and when the desync happens, then gather filename, command-out.log and dmp*sav for analysis
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17:42:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26345 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2014-02-16 17:42:28 UTC)
17:42:36 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup (r26310): Spawning towns does not touch persistent NewGRF storage. ClearPersistentStorageChanges is a dangerous/magic function which should not be called without reason.
17:44:29 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: maybe it was meant to initialize the town storage?
17:45:30 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26346 /trunk/src (town_cmd.cpp townname.cpp) (2014-02-16 17:45:24 UTC)
17:45:31 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5870]: Call Layouter::ReduceLineCache from GenerateTownName in all cases.
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18:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, something about bright background looks either weird or just unaccustomed
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18:43:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r26347 /trunk/src/linkgraph (4 files) (2014-02-16 18:42:59 UTC)
18:43:16 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5898]: Make sure link graph jobs can delete themselves after SLA_NULL.
18:45:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26348 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2014-02-16 18:45:28 UTC)
18:45:40 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:41 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 3 changes by Stabilitronas
18:45:42 <DorpsGek> polish - 4 changes by wojteks86
18:45:43 <DorpsGek> russian - 3 changes by Lone_Wolf
18:45:44 <DorpsGek> swedish - 5 changes by spacejens
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20:45:24 <frosch123> "please press any button except the power button"
20:45:31 <frosch123> sounds like the fix to a ln bug report
21:06:28 * Rubidium votes for the reset button
21:06:48 <Rubidium> or... the button on the PSU changing 110v <-> 220v
21:09:01 <Rubidium> although... scrolllock might be interesting as well
21:09:18 <frosch123> just keep away from the microwave
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21:16:45 <Eddi|zuHause> how about the button for the outside power supply, when it has been raining all day?
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21:18:26 <andythenorth> where is pikka AI to?
21:20:42 * andythenorth experiments with using 'original' terrain generator
21:20:54 <andythenorth> the results of that are piss poor :(
21:27:28 <frosch123> i don't like the firs poll results :p
21:28:02 <frosch123> i want to vote for a small economy, but i have not played it enough to know which one is better. i am just annoyed that the big one is winning :p
21:28:30 <planetmaker> hm, so let's vote for heart of darkness...
21:28:35 <planetmaker> I haven't voted yet
21:28:54 <planetmaker> heart of darkness is at least the best by name :D
21:29:30 <planetmaker> The others should be renamed :D
21:29:37 <planetmaker> andy always has fancy names for stuff
21:30:29 <planetmaker> it's not 'full production' but 'gung ho' or something :D
21:30:46 <planetmaker> takes a bit getting used to. But definitely makes it unique and adds to flair
21:31:15 <Alberth> standard european industries? :)
21:32:09 <Alberth> all industries you imagined
21:32:53 <Alberth> k, time to call it a day; good night
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21:37:18 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26349 /trunk/src/thread (5 files) (2014-02-16 21:37:05 UTC)
21:37:19 <DorpsGek> -Add: Optional recursive locking of mutexes.
21:47:05 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26350 /trunk/src/thread (thread_os2.cpp thread_win32.cpp) (2014-02-16 21:47:00 UTC)
21:47:06 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26349): Silly bugs are silly.
21:49:50 <andythenorth> manual dist for freight
21:52:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't voted on the FIRS thread because i have not played with any of the economies
21:53:09 <Eddi|zuHause> only with really ancient ones
21:57:28 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26351 trunk/src/video/sdl_v.cpp (2014-02-16 21:57:22 UTC)
21:57:29 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Protect all VideoDriver_SDL methods with the _draw_mutex.
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