IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-02-01
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01:13:29 <Aristide> email to Sytral sended \o/
01:14:05 <Aristide> On webpage about tramway line T5, Sytral website show a T5 extension map, but with ... T2 line name x)
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01:29:15 <Tirili> Is there a way to save your standings in an online game and continue with your company one day later?
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01:30:16 <Elyon> Tirili: just save your game?
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01:31:13 <Tirili> But when I reload in some days later, what will happen to the other players? Being taken over by ai?
01:42:03 <Elyon> oh, like that. No, they should still be in there
01:42:26 <Elyon> assuming they have their own companies, the companies will persist and continue existing
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09:07:06 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 10 hours, 18 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <Pikka> psh. PBS is all you need!
09:07:21 <andythenorth> upside down land
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10:41:57 <Elyon> another day, another nfo nightmare
10:53:29 <andythenorth> it's ok, I can do sums with fudge
10:53:57 * andythenorth currently toddler wrangling
10:54:08 <Pikka> incidentally, I just doubled the running costs for my trains (by increasing the multiplier by 1) ;)
10:57:09 <Pikka> I just realised I should put the vehicle I'm working on in a separate grf, rather than spend five minutes recompiling the whole thing every time I want to see my changes in-game...
10:58:46 <peter1138> just change the ini file
11:01:45 <andythenorth> Pikka: same problem in FIRS, there's a compiler flag I use to get one industry
11:01:53 <andythenorth> otherwise I have to drink a lot of coffee
11:02:10 <andythenorth> let's have a non-compiled newgrf format :P
11:02:43 <Alberth> users just type the newgrf bytes
11:02:58 <andythenorth> I would love writing code in xml :P
11:03:03 <andythenorth> that would be super
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11:03:11 <planetmaker> and we send sheets of ascii characters which they need to type in? cool :)
11:03:24 <Pikka> locomotion is xml... yuck.
11:08:32 <andythenorth> <node>0F 0A 02 16 FA FF 0C 20 10 1A FF FF</node>
11:11:34 <planetmaker> sounds totally legible
11:14:56 <andythenorth> ran out of battery and shut down
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11:19:43 <Alberth> shouldn't it be like <node><byte base="16">0F</byte> <byte base="16">0A</byte> <byte base="16">02</byte> <byte base="16">16</byte> <byte base="16">FA</byte> <byte base="16">FF</byte> <byte base="16">0C</byte> <byte base="16">20</byte> <byte base="16">10</byte> <byte base="16">1A</byte> <byte base="16">FF</byte> <byte base="16">FF</byte></node> ?
11:21:25 <andythenorth> dunno, doesn't seem as user friendly as my suggestion
11:21:33 <andythenorth> I think they key here is user friendliness
11:22:01 <andythenorth> I could probably have the parser split on whitespace, write new nodes into the xml tree for the format you're suggesting
11:22:10 <andythenorth> in fact we could have a compile step for it
11:23:35 <andythenorth> Fast and Power I actually need to provide values for per vehicle?
11:25:30 <Pikka> yeah, they're the controls... if you leave them all the same, you'll get a progression of vehicles based on the year, but everything will be middle-of-the-road
11:25:53 <Pikka> you can dial down power to get a shunter, dial up fast to get an express loco, etc.
11:26:19 <andythenorth> I already have some fuel_run_cost_factor and fixed_run_cost_factor
11:26:24 <andythenorth> which is copied from shipses
11:26:38 <andythenorth> maybe I can put that into your formula
11:26:46 <andythenorth> fixed_run_cost_factor = number of crew :P
11:27:05 <andythenorth> where is the realism?
11:27:58 <Alberth> andythenorth: I used a substitution expression s/\([0-9A-F][0-9A-F]\)/<byte base="16">\1<\/byte>/g
11:28:12 <andythenorth> Alberth: I like that
11:28:20 <andythenorth> ideally we need more / and \ characters
11:28:26 <andythenorth> can we escape escapes?
11:29:53 <andythenorth> Pikka: is 'fast' relative to other locos at the time, or is it a pure dibble?
11:29:53 <Elyon> \\\c\\\a\\\n\\\ \\\w\\\e\\\?, you mean?
11:30:25 <Pikka> relative to other locos at the time
11:31:19 <Japa_> is this some kind of automatic train grf generator?
11:31:39 <Pikka> train stat generator, Japa_
11:32:07 <Japa_> it should generate graphics
11:33:04 <andythenorth> that has been doen
11:33:13 <andythenorth> I have an automatic truck set generator
11:33:17 <andythenorth> but it was boring
11:33:21 <Pikka> andy: "chep" is a cost debuff for trains below the tech level. It was a control, but it's now just an intermediate calculated value.
11:41:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i have crude boxy generated sprites
11:44:17 <andythenorth> some are better than crude?
11:44:22 <andythenorth> I saw some wagons somewhere
11:49:03 <Eddi|zuHause> everything that's better than crude is hand drawn
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13:04:58 <andythenorth> Pikka: does this look right for chep? :P
13:04:58 <andythenorth> return (2-(fast+power), 1)[fast+power<=1]
13:05:19 <andythenorth> you may point out that I have given you no language context :P
13:05:32 <Pikka> it looks about right :P
13:05:45 <andythenorth> (False, True)[test]
13:06:58 <andythenorth> output numbers look right
13:07:07 <andythenorth> I'm calculating wagon running costs too :P
13:07:29 <Pikka> I used much simpler calculations for wagons :P
13:08:08 <Pikka> particularly since I don't have any generations, so statting by year is out
13:09:28 <andythenorth> my buy numbers are coming out differently now
13:11:14 <Alberth> fast+power<=1 is 1 if at least one of them is true, right? fast|power is also true if at least one of them is true
13:12:21 <Alberth> perhaps s/|/ or / if you're talking python
13:12:35 <andythenorth> does a value >1 still evaluate to True?
13:13:16 <Alberth> although I am against use of boolean values :)
13:13:59 <Alberth> but "fast or power" is just false or true
13:14:56 <Alberth> hmm return 2-(fast or power) should work too
13:17:50 <Elyon> is there something I should know about building sprite indices when using advanced sprite layouts? I've tried both the +42D approach, the \d0 approach, and the \d80000000 approach, all I get is random game sprites instead of the custom sprites I've loaded
13:21:46 <Elyon> it was the +42D approach plus the \dx80000000 approach
13:30:16 <efess> Any admins here from tt-forums.net?
13:33:55 <Alberth> if you don't have login problems, usually, the easiest way is to press the ! button, and type them a pm
13:35:23 <efess> email activation isn't working :(
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14:04:44 <andythenorth> Pikka: HP - calculated? o_O
14:04:58 <Pikka> everything is calculated
14:05:08 <Pikka> except the fast and power controls :P
14:05:22 <andythenorth> that makes sense
14:05:28 <andythenorth> I didn't notice that at first :P
14:06:20 <Pikka> and the introduction year
14:06:28 <andythenorth> it's appealing to me because I'm lazy
14:06:34 <andythenorth> but Dan likes to specify specific HP
14:06:41 <andythenorth> so I might hack at the formula a bit more
14:06:54 <Pikka> you can wiggle the power control until you get the hp you want
14:07:01 <Pikka> if you're targetting a particular hp
14:07:06 <andythenorth> I am +1 to this, deciding stats is boring :P
14:07:11 <Pikka> and it will adjust the costs, weights, etc, accordingly
14:07:34 <Pikka> and you can wiggle the fast control if you're targetting a particular mph :P
14:07:56 <andythenorth> I might steal this for SomeTruckSet
14:08:12 <Pikka> do you want my spreadsheet for someothertruckset to look at?
14:08:57 <Pikka> let me prettify it a little first
14:10:28 <andythenorth> might ignore that for now
14:10:42 <Pikka> it just adds a little to the running cost, it's fairly ignorable
14:12:00 <andythenorth> negative running costs
14:12:17 <andythenorth> I am not using calculated stats, it's breaks it :P
14:12:31 <andythenorth> speed and power disagree with your table currently
14:12:41 <Pikka> if you turn the knobs too hard it breaks, for sure
14:12:54 <Pikka> prototypical HPs might be out of range
14:13:13 <Pikka> real trains are way too powerful for TTD, trains which reach top speed half a tile out of the station and just stay there are boring :P
14:13:43 <andythenorth> I think it's the wagons :)
14:13:51 <andythenorth> they all have the same calc applied
14:14:05 <andythenorth> anyone know how to uncrash python? o_O
14:14:15 <andythenorth> ctrl-c is not worky
14:15:07 <andythenorth> nah, it's runing a script
14:15:18 <andythenorth> the error handling crashes horribly
14:15:46 <Alberth> you don't want a stack dump or so?
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14:24:11 <andythenorth> Alberth: gtg, but I'll paste something later ;)
14:24:21 <andythenorth> somebody broke the error handling in python somehow
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15:50:05 <planetmaker> Alberth, in which package do I find g++ on fedora20?
15:50:31 <Alberth> ccache-3.1.9-4.fc20.x86_64
15:51:36 <Alberth> just install all c/c++ development stuff :)
15:52:05 <planetmaker> I installed gcc as package description said it has also g++... but... well :)
15:53:05 <Alberth> it probably does, ccache sounds like it's just caching complilations
15:55:49 <TinoDidriksen> Yeah, ccache merely depends on gcc-g++
15:58:20 <planetmaker> package names are a bit strange at times. But the system runs out-of box quite nicely
15:58:43 <planetmaker> only custom partitioning didn't didn't work out on install
16:04:50 <Alberth> upgrading to the next version also fails for me, I normally just re-install the OS from scratch
16:05:55 <planetmaker> it wasn't upgrade. Virgin hard disk, no 'old' disks connected which could confuse it
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17:45:01 <peter1138> "i.e. a Factory can accept: Steel, Copper (rafined from Copper Ore), Aluminium (rafined from Bauxite), Lumber, Rubber, Plastic, Paper to produce goods"
17:45:06 <peter1138> cos "Metal" is too complex?
17:47:44 <Alberth> to make one big central do-everything factory :)
17:50:02 <slee> ugh, i just realized you can't remove these antennas
17:51:03 <frosch123> it's their only purpose
17:52:14 <Sacro> I need path based presignals
17:52:27 <Sacro> I want a train to reserve through multiple signals
17:52:57 <Alberth> how is that different than one long block?
17:56:49 <Sacro> Alberth: can get a shorter headway
17:57:49 <Alberth> I don't understand, if a train has to reserve through 5 blocks, it cannot move until it has a path through 5 blocks, right?
18:01:51 <slee> reading up on stand alone(dedicated) server for openttd...i can't find whether or not map size is still limitted to 2048x2048....can you make the map bigger on a server? i'm thinking of setting up a personal server on my mythbuntu box
18:02:41 <Sacro> but the train behind can go when it has cleared the first block
18:02:50 <Sacro> not wait for it to clear the 5th
18:02:58 <frosch123> Sacro: i believe there are two patches for that
18:03:48 <Alberth> how is the 2nd train going to reserve the block with the first train ?
18:06:08 <glx> slee: dedicated is just a client without video
18:06:20 <Sacro> Alberth: you wouldn't have as many as 5 really
18:06:21 <glx> all calculation are done on both
18:06:25 <Sacro> more like 2/3 on the entry to a station
18:07:31 <Sacro> frosch123: thanks, but i'm fed up with patching
18:07:49 <Sacro> I want infrastructure sharing, daylength, timetable seperation
18:07:54 <Sacro> and it to not desync constant
18:08:32 <frosch123> at least you do not want copy&paste :p
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18:22:52 <slee> i installed the north american roads set and dropped one of each bridge to see what they looked like, the wooden bridge graphics are flawed..anyone experiencing that?
18:24:10 <planetmaker> known issue. newgrf bug
18:24:57 <slee> wasn't sure if maybe i had conflicting grfs(i'm a noob to openttd)
18:45:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26288 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2014-02-01 18:45:14 UTC)
18:45:23 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:24 <DorpsGek> polish - 1 changes by wojteks86
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18:59:04 <Pikka> always the same problem with creating newgrfs
18:59:33 <Pikka> you get about 60% done, then you just sit there watching the trains go by
19:00:19 <Alberth> that also happens to me when playing an OpenTTD game :)
19:01:35 <Pikka> isn't that what you're supposed to do when playing an OpenTTD game? :P
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19:16:27 <planetmaker> that sounds very familiar, Pikka :)
19:18:57 <Pikka> I suppose it has been a fairly productive couple of weeks, though :)
19:25:24 <Pikka> with 32bpp/ez becoming mainstream, the people who load up every newgrf they can find are going to find themselves running out of memory :)
19:26:55 <Taede> remember theyll want to play on 2048x2048 maps, or bigger
19:32:20 <FLHerne> Pikka: Not really, OTTD uses far less memory than most other things these days
19:33:07 <FLHerne> I suspect the 'every grf' mindset may carry over into hardware, too
19:39:42 <planetmaker> Pikka, there's at most 4GB of sprite memory which OpenTTD allows to allocate. And you can limit it further (but slowing things down)
19:40:45 <Pikka> so I should be aiming to make a 4gb newgrf, is what you're saying?
19:42:16 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: even on the x64 builds?
19:42:42 <planetmaker> Xaroth, yes... that's the max OpenTTD will try to allocate
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19:49:48 <FLHerne> I keep making silly design mistakes in my hobby-project that make it eat GBs on a whim :-/
19:50:21 <FLHerne> I guess designing things that don't need million-element arrays of things is one of those important coding skills :P
19:52:09 <planetmaker> @calc 60000 * 256*128*4 / 1024/1024
20:12:23 <frosch123> Taede: map size is irrelevant to memory usage compared to graphics
20:12:46 <frosch123> and i think we do not support more than 2GB of sprite cache
20:12:52 <frosch123> its all signed integeres or so :p
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21:15:09 <Alberth> V453000: are you supposed to have 2 Educated Horses after each other? (nuts 0.6.2) there is a hole between them in -- direction
21:16:54 <Taede> i believe that is intentional, so that each engine is either half or full tile
21:17:12 <Taede> so that you are never stuck with fractional trains (eg, 2.7 length)
21:21:52 <Alberth> ah, makes sense, although I don't mind "weird" lengths
21:22:09 <Taede> its to do with cornering speed as well
21:23:13 <Taede> afaik a train with lots of short wagons, will corner a lot slower than an equal lenght train of longer wagons
21:24:21 <Alberth> higher train mathematics :)
21:25:39 <Alberth> sounds like something he may get annoyed with :)
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21:31:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought it went faster because there are more wagons between the bends
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22:09:44 <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 7 hours, 45 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <andythenorth> somebody broke the error handling in python somehow
22:24:38 <Tirili> At which year does building planes start in openttd?
22:27:45 <Pikka> unless you're using a newgrf which changes that
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23:48:21 <slee> does anyone know off the top of thier head when the first update for egrvts start? i started in year 1800...wondering if i started waaaay to early
23:50:58 <slee> or is there a url that lists what years vehicles update? vanilla and egrvts
23:53:50 <slee> ok, what is a good year to start?
23:58:06 <slee> nm, i see the first steam train starts in 1925, that'll work
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