IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-01-01
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03:28:40 <Japa> Sjr, it's a mod that made it into the main game, that makes passengers and other cargo actually have a destination in mind when they set out, and are willing to swap whatever trains they need to to get there.
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04:08:37 <Flygon> I must have too many boats
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11:43:14 <Alberth> hello all, and happy new year
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13:44:17 <planetmaker> and I should also say happy new year everyone :)
13:58:47 <Flygon> It was New Years Day yesterday :p
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17:47:44 <secure_> would anyone here like to start a multi-player map with me
17:48:14 <planetmaker> did you try to join any of the many existing multiplayer servers?
17:49:00 <secure_> yeah, kinda looking to make a new friend and have a go
17:49:26 <Alberth> aren't most players in #tycoon ? (no idea really, I never go there)
17:49:58 <secure_> is this room for devs?
17:50:13 <planetmaker> nah, this is the channel for everything around OpenTTD
17:52:05 <Alberth> there not a lot of players active here
17:52:10 <planetmaker> looking for players is a bit uncommon, though. No idea, maybe in #tycoon indeed there's some players, too
17:54:05 <secure_> okay, well i've started my own server. perhaps i'll make friends better this way
17:55:22 <Alberth> you know how many servers there are, and how many players are online, right? :)
17:56:32 <secure_> yeah, I find most people to be aggressive players and very good at the game, I just hope to meet somebody who is willing to co-operate
17:56:42 <planetmaker> while the user base seems to be reasonably large, most seem to prefer single player.
17:56:52 <planetmaker> have you tried the #openttdcoop servers, secure_ ?
17:57:00 <planetmaker> notably the welcome server?
17:57:52 <secure_> no i haven't yet, sorry to be so naive but where will i find those?
17:58:47 <planetmaker> in your server list (hopefully) :)
17:58:58 <planetmaker> when you try to join a multiplayer server. you need 1.4.0-beta1
17:59:24 <planetmaker> it uses always the latest release, including release candidates and betas
17:59:38 <secure_> ohh, I am just using 1.3.1
18:00:27 <secure_> I guess the apt repository is out of date. perhaps I should compile from source instead
18:00:59 <planetmaker> online play usually is only successful, if you use the current stable release. Or like described testing release
18:01:10 <planetmaker> you could simply download pre-compiled binaries...
18:01:26 <planetmaker> www.openttd.org/download-testing (or download-stable or download-trunk)
18:01:57 <secure_> I only see releases for 1.3.3
18:05:21 <secure_> how do i find the co-op server? I don't see any options to choose server types
18:06:22 <Alberth> #openttdcoop - Welcome Server (www.openttdcoop.org) 3 / 255 8 / 15 1.4.0-beta1
18:07:04 <Alberth> there is a search box iirc, just type 'welcome' :)
18:08:26 <Alberth> oh, the 0.6.3 server is gone :)
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18:45:19 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26193 trunk/src/lang/german.txt (2014-01-01 18:45:12 UTC)
18:45:20 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:21 <DorpsGek> german - 1 changes by Jogio
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19:14:06 <andythenorth> have to choose the checkbox to activate the controls for a row
19:14:10 <andythenorth> it's just weird :)
19:16:03 <Alberth> yellow dropdown boxes like the advanced settings make more sense
19:16:26 <Alberth> I am missing what the colour columns actually mean
19:16:48 <andythenorth> 1st and 2nd company colours
19:17:16 <andythenorth> I wonder if this is a hangover from TTDP or something, where people just had to know what stuff meant
19:17:22 <Alberth> yeah, but there is no header
19:17:27 <andythenorth> anyway, I think it's a candidate for a quick win :)
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19:17:53 <andythenorth> without any discussion of liveries for individual vehicles, or by vehicle group, or any other fancy stuff
19:18:15 <Alberth> the station window has this problem too, it just displays cargo amounts without further explanation :)
19:20:09 <andythenorth> the one that lists all stations?
19:20:13 <andythenorth> or the per-station window?
19:20:41 <andythenorth> what am I looking for? o_O
19:20:46 <andythenorth> I see '6 tonnes of clay'
19:24:08 <Alberth> it doesn't say it is cargo currently waiting the station
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19:25:34 <andythenorth> oh yeah, that + thing
19:25:56 <andythenorth> I was looking in stable, not nightly
19:26:09 <Alberth> it's clickable, and unfolds details of where cargo want to go, or comes from
19:26:20 <Alberth> ie sort of a tree node
19:28:08 <Alberth> if you switch to "ratings" you'll see a nice caption what the numbers mean
19:28:27 <Alberth> I expect something similar in this window too
19:29:52 <andythenorth> where did my implicit order go? :O
19:30:01 <andythenorth> it just got gardened out of the order list whilst I watched
19:30:22 <Alberth> the train did pass that station this time?
19:30:33 <Alberth> it gets dynamically updated
19:30:51 <andythenorth> I'll just not worry about that :)
19:32:28 <andythenorth> station just removed all waiting cargo
19:32:36 <andythenorth> never seen that before
19:33:03 <andythenorth> I switched to a view that hides all the cargo
19:33:33 <andythenorth> so what is 'Station' and 'Amount'
19:34:03 <andythenorth> there is a drop down in the station window
19:34:08 <andythenorth> some of the options hide the cargo
19:34:15 <andythenorth> I don't understand what they are showing me
19:35:34 <Alberth> oh, that. It's the sorting order of the window
19:36:09 <Alberth> never used it, I think
19:36:57 <Alberth> but I guess you can put the station with the biggest amount of waiting cargo at the top, so you know what route needs fixing
19:37:02 <andythenorth> interesting that sort order hides cargo
19:37:13 <andythenorth> kind of a multi-purpose control
19:37:56 <Alberth> there are 2 or 3 different forms of cargo
19:38:44 <andythenorth> did you have any ideas for the station window? I can't work out what it actually does, so have no suggestions :D
19:38:52 <Alberth> stuff that has a route or not, stuff that is allocated to a vehicle or not
19:39:50 <Alberth> not yet; I was working on the ratings, and found a caption which I was then missing at the cargo display
19:40:23 <Alberth> did you know the ratings also display exclusive transport rights in its area?
19:40:56 <andythenorth> no I didn't know that :)
19:41:06 <andythenorth> I have been playing ottd for at least 6 years I think
19:41:18 <andythenorth> it has more rabbit holes than photoshop
19:41:54 <Alberth> worse, they move and new ones get added all the time :p
19:42:51 <andythenorth> interestingly we now have a localisation settings section
19:42:57 <andythenorth> which took me a while to find, but is good
19:43:36 <andythenorth> but lang, speed, currency and drive side are still localised in 'game options'
19:44:08 <andythenorth> which also still contains screenshot format (really, is that even something that players need as a UI option?)
19:44:51 <andythenorth> and also town names, unless I want to use a newgrf for those
19:45:07 <planetmaker> hey ho andythenort h
19:45:13 <andythenorth> this is stuff I might actually be able to help fix, if I make some time
19:45:27 <andythenorth> I can probably learn enough UI code without breaking too much :P
19:45:32 <Alberth> hmm, given the alternatives of the screenshot format, I'd say it can be safely hidden:)
19:47:00 <andythenorth> where did the costs and such go? Those I can't find :)
19:47:13 <planetmaker> andythenorth, even with newgrfs, you need to set the town names here in the options
19:47:31 <andythenorth> Alberth: running costs and such, I found them
19:48:00 <Alberth> oh, the old dificulty window
19:48:45 <Alberth> yeah, let's make the other 118 or so windows disappear too :p
19:48:53 <Alberth> handwaving is sufficient :)
19:48:56 <andythenorth> maybe just try and have 99?
19:49:22 <Alberth> good and more realistic intermediate goal :)
19:49:39 <andythenorth> I don't mind the number of windows :)
19:49:52 <andythenorth> we could just solve it all with one super-window if that was the problem :)
19:50:40 <andythenorth> there is a known problem with fixing flow of setting up a game, which me and planetmaker had a solution to ~2 years
19:50:44 <andythenorth> pictures and everything
19:50:55 <andythenorth> and then there are all these little odd things that don't make sense
19:51:26 <andythenorth> like why land generator isn't an advanced setting?
19:51:37 <andythenorth> it's not like there are loads of alternatives
19:51:49 <Alberth> hackalittlebit also made a redesign
19:52:11 <Alberth> not sure how it differs from your design
19:53:06 <Alberth> :o I found your company colours window. I never realized the icons at the top had new sub-selections :p
19:53:28 <Alberth> cc is very non-interesting?
19:53:51 <andythenorth> it's because trains have a crapload of their own special settings, whereas the other transport types just get a few
19:54:09 <andythenorth> so if you put them all in one window (the obvious choice, no?), there's too much train stuff
19:54:33 <Alberth> of course, you are not supposed to use the other types of transport, don't you know?
19:54:53 <andythenorth> to be reasonable, they are just all the default types
19:55:04 <andythenorth> but coaches get special treatment, freigh wagons don't?
19:55:42 <andythenorth> you should get a rating bonus for changing the colour within last 6 months :P
19:55:46 <Alberth> looks like a good candidate for a tree
19:56:07 <andythenorth> it's definitely a good candidate for removing the check box :)
19:56:22 <Alberth> someone will implement an automagic repainter :)
19:56:29 <andythenorth> I think the reasoning was probably 'omg, what if I want to turn off my colour selection'
19:56:55 <andythenorth> it's also really fun that I have to visit the top of the window to make the choice
19:57:00 <andythenorth> instead of the dropdowns being in each row
19:57:25 <Alberth> weren't there limits on the number of drop downs or the number of widgets or so?
19:58:18 <Alberth> iirc I read somewhere that they changed that for the news settings window
19:58:51 <Alberth> in the good old days when widgets had hard-coded positions, all manually entered :)
19:59:29 <Alberth> and a window was a struct with function pointers :)
20:00:20 <andythenorth> ok that makes sense :)
20:01:05 <andythenorth> the airport building window is ugly
20:01:10 <andythenorth> it has no box padding
20:01:22 <andythenorth> (the controls run hard to the window edge)
20:01:41 <Alberth> currently the rotation arrows are at the wrong place too
20:02:18 <andythenorth> it also has some behaviour that really annoys me, but I've forgotten what
20:03:15 <Alberth> hmm, I can select small airports, and then not some airport, both are disabled
20:03:36 <andythenorth> found the behaviour
20:03:48 <andythenorth> it doesn't remember by last selection when opening
20:04:12 <andythenorth> which is tedious, because often I have to go use the land terraform tools while trying to build airports
20:04:42 <andythenorth> rail station build window seems to handle this much better (stays open while terraforming for starters)
20:05:14 <andythenorth> it varies depending on newgrf or default station :o
20:07:44 <andythenorth> I guess build station and build newgrf station are different functions, returning different behaviours to UI?
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22:15:55 <Eddi|zuHause> you can get rid of the checkboxes if you have a "use default" entry in the dropdowns
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22:22:19 <andythenorth> or just let the player restore to default themselves?
22:22:27 <andythenorth> or is there some issue I haven't realised there?
22:22:39 <andythenorth> I guess if you change the default...
22:22:58 <andythenorth> ...you don't want to have to go re-set all the others
22:26:53 <andythenorth> complexity != complicated mess
22:30:52 <andythenorth> also, bedtime :)
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