IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-11-18
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03:18:20 <LuHa> hmm, i again lost voice right in .dev :(
03:18:38 <LuHa> planetmaker: I success to your help. thanks
03:18:52 <Supercheese> try to identify with Nickserv
03:19:13 <Supercheese> I had to set up a command to auto-identify upon login to get the voice automatically assigned
03:19:22 <LuHa> (12:16:24) NickServ: (notice) You are successfully identified as LuHa.
03:19:37 <Supercheese> right, if you did that after login, you may need to relog
03:19:51 <Supercheese> I'm not entirely sure how the IRC business works
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05:55:55 <FrenkyPohodar> Hello. I have a question rename it somehow run a dedicated server? : (Me with two servers run under the same name.
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07:43:16 <FrenkyPohodar> Have a nice day (in the morning) when you do not know how to run a dedicated server, enter the server name? So far I have found only one option and that should be corrected before starting openttd.cfg
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08:23:50 <planetmaker> FrenkyPohodar, close down openttd, edit openttd.cfg, restart - like you said
08:25:24 <planetmaker> if you advertize the server, then the name need be known before that is done. So changing that afterwards does not work
08:27:08 <FrenkyPohodar> It would be better-N name server
08:28:08 <planetmaker> why would that be better?
08:28:46 <planetmaker> actually it would allow to start more easily a dos attack on our main server
08:29:59 <planetmaker> the server name also doesn't change with each map you play
08:30:21 <planetmaker> so it's a one-time setup thing
08:34:30 <FrenkyPohodar> Then edit it manually, the problem is that I wanted to run the second server and they then named the same is not possible to make settings (openttd.cfg) for each server separately?
08:35:42 <planetmaker> you need a separate cfg anyway - you cannot run from the same IP *and* port. At least the port it runs on needs to differ
08:35:54 <planetmaker> so yes, each server necessarily needs a separate cfg
08:36:14 <planetmaker> using the same fails on the operating system level
08:36:48 <planetmaker> or network level if you want to be more specific
08:42:52 <FrenkyPohodar> If I'm reading this correctly then it will be enough to add -c setting. cfg server startup
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13:38:09 <Bloody_Mikey> Hi non of my AI that i have downloadet want to work
13:38:49 <Bloody_Mikey> [misc] [squirrel] Failed to compile
13:41:03 <krinn> you have a problem with ottd or all AIs doesn't work
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13:42:26 <planetmaker> Bloody_Mikey, did you use the ingame content download to obtain the AI?
13:43:03 <planetmaker> if not: make sure that you do not only download the AI, but also the libraries and to place those in the proper directory as well
14:05:36 <krinn> the {SKIP} complain about english:16: error: Undefined command 'SKIP'
14:05:51 <krinn> but it seems it still burn arguments like expect
14:08:26 <krinn> or is it because it return a string and string isn't valid value for {COMPANY} : so {SKIP} doesn't work, but ottd ignore {COMPANY} because the param isn't integer ?
14:14:07 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: more likely you're interpreting your problem the wrong way
14:16:10 <krinn> how do i sort out {COMPANY} {COMPANY} no output for 2nd {COMPANY} when value is not a valid company?
14:16:20 <krinn> should i just pass -1 to the 2nd {COMPANY} ?
14:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> you should have a second string with only one {COMPANY}
14:17:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and decide which one to use in the code that pushes the parameters
14:17:32 <krinn> and so define 15 strings for each possibilties
14:19:32 <krinn> i see that {SKIP} doesn't exist anymore from the ref page update you gave me
14:19:46 <krinn> (now i know why the complain against skip)
14:23:04 <krinn> str0 : {COMPANY} str1: {COMPANY} {COMPANY}...
14:23:24 <Eddi|zuHause> STR_CONCAT:{STRING}{STRING}
14:23:34 <Eddi|zuHause> and then nest these
14:23:51 <krinn> can't concat, GS can't do
14:24:03 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you can, with this string
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14:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause> random idea: on web translator a "download this language" button that gets you the output of strgen, so translators can test their changes
14:55:50 <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean?
14:56:14 <krinn> {CURRENCY64} -> € 10,000,000,00
14:56:32 <krinn> {VELOCITY} -> 120km/h or 195mph
14:57:09 <Eddi|zuHause> can you construct full sentences please?
14:57:31 <krinn> those are example given in the url i have just post
14:58:02 <Eddi|zuHause> what does that have to do with anything?
14:58:38 <krinn> nothing, it's just for saying something
14:59:34 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, file a feature request for the WT3 project so that it won't be forgotten. It's a good idea
14:59:48 <planetmaker> But no idea which can be dealt with quickly
15:02:21 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: on devzone? there's only a wt2 on flyspray
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15:02:56 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, WT3 is part of 'website' project
15:06:58 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, hi :-D
15:10:13 <Rubidium> also, the OpenTTDDevBlackBook should be blacklisted
15:10:39 <krinn> Rubidium, it should move company order when display if i get it right, so not that
15:11:24 <Rubidium> what parameters do you set exactly, and what kind of strings do you want to create?
15:11:28 <krinn> it's to have a string with : {COMPANY} {COMPANY}...{COMPANY} that is fill with company names, but when not all 15 are present, empty the missing ones
15:11:30 <Rubidium> one thing... {SKIP} is BAD
15:12:37 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: so have a string with: {STRING} {STRING} ... {STRING} and push either STR_COMPANY or STR_EMPTY
15:13:03 <krinn> and STR_EMPTY can just be... empty ?
15:13:28 <Eddi|zuHause> STR_COMPANY:{COMPANY}
15:13:41 <krinn> but {STRING} is not {COMPANY}
15:14:03 <Rubidium> though that won't work with 15 companies as you only have a limit of 20 parameters
15:14:14 <Rubidium> even then, you'll have all kinds of intermittent spaces
15:14:26 <krinn> but when i use {SKIP} except the complain it seems to work
15:14:58 <krinn> it display company1 company2 and no "invalid or missing" message
15:15:13 <krinn> but the log put the {SKIP} is not a valid thing
15:15:46 <Rubidium> you can also use {KRINN} to get the exact same result
15:16:20 <krinn> look at The White House displaying companies
15:16:35 <krinn> with -> STR_AWARD_OWN_MULTI : Own by {NUM} compan{P y ies} : {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY}
15:18:01 <krinn> Rubidium maybe, but i would prefer a "don't bug the log" solve
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15:19:04 <Rubidium> then just use 15 {COMPANY}s
15:19:17 <Rubidium> looks like the fail safe is to not draw anything when the company doesn't exist
15:19:42 <krinn> ah so i could pass integer -1 ?
15:20:15 <Rubidium> well, I'd use COMPANY_INVALID or so
15:20:42 <krinn> ok, will do with COMPANY_INVALID
15:24:19 <krinn> great, no complain in log, and output is the same
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17:00:18 <NGC3982> Yeah, better keep that milk safe.
17:08:43 <planetmaker> seems like a armoured transport which transports milk
17:09:00 <planetmaker> mice milk most likely
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17:24:52 <krinn> what is the url to push @ devzone with ssh ?
17:26:08 <planetmaker> ssh://hg@hg.openttdcoop.org/PROJECTNAME
17:26:34 <krinn> thank you planetmaker (should be put with the readonly message)
17:26:40 <krinn> (should also be put in my mind of course)
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18:03:23 <NGC3982> Isn't there a bunch of people from Moldovia in this channel?
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18:12:48 <Eddi|zuHause> anybody have an idea how i run ntfsresize on a qemu disk image?
18:13:54 <zydeco> you'd have to resize the file first, probably
18:14:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i have run qemu-img resize
18:14:38 <Eddi|zuHause> now i can either use the windows tools in the vm or the linux tools on the raw file to resize the disk
18:15:00 <Eddi|zuHause> where the former is probably tricky as it's the system partition
18:15:24 <planetmaker> make a backup of the file and try :-)
18:15:38 <Eddi|zuHause> plenty of backups :)
18:15:55 <zydeco> sounds like it should work if it's a raw file
18:20:50 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... fdisk doesn't want to do as i want
18:21:08 <Eddi|zuHause> this is the existing partition:
18:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
18:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause> windowsxp/disk0-clone.raw1 * 63 16755794 8377866 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
18:21:28 <Eddi|zuHause> but when i delete it and create a new one, it wants "start" as minimum 2048
18:21:34 <Eddi|zuHause> so i can't input 63
18:21:55 <^Spike^> if all else fails blame windows.... :)
18:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that's tricky if windows isn't running :p
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18:22:27 <^Spike^> windows can break without it running :D
18:22:31 <^Spike^> it's the special powers it has :D
18:22:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but still, this is linux fdisk
18:23:09 <^Spike^> you're trying to overrule my theory! :)
18:36:13 <Bloody_Mikey> how do i activate a setting in midgame whitour restating the server
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18:43:07 <aditsu> hi, which stations affect a town's growth?
18:44:02 <aditsu> haha, I mean, it seems they have to be within a certain distance of the town center?
18:44:25 <aditsu> or what's the criterion?
18:44:41 <planetmaker> you can check which land belongs to a town with the land query tool
18:44:50 <planetmaker> yes, they need to be in the influence area of the town
18:45:18 <planetmaker> usually the stations then have a name like "{TOWN} central" or "{TOWN} Mine"
18:45:35 <planetmaker> though... they have that, too outside... hm. But land query tool is clear :-)
18:45:46 <aditsu> I have an airport that doesn't seem to be considered
18:45:59 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26035 /trunk/src/lang (7 files) (2013-11-18 18:45:49 UTC)
18:46:00 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:01 <DorpsGek> belarusian - 1 changes by KorneySan
18:46:02 <DorpsGek> catalan - 1 changes by juanjo
18:46:03 <DorpsGek> dutch - 1 changes by habell
18:46:04 <DorpsGek> french - 28 changes by glx
18:46:05 <DorpsGek> german - 1 changes by planetmaker
18:46:06 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 7 changes by Trond
18:46:07 <DorpsGek> spanish - 2 changes by Terkhen
18:46:21 <aditsu> local authority? or what should I look at?
18:46:25 <planetmaker> the tile under the station sign matters
18:47:04 <aditsu> ahaha, that corner has "none", the rest of the airport is on town's tiles
19:06:33 <andythenorth> I miss yesterday's visitor
19:08:31 <andythenorth> I can only recommend the logs for this time yesterday
19:09:13 <planetmaker> the godwin invoker?
19:09:23 <andythenorth> who then pm-ed me a few times asking what happened
19:09:34 <andythenorth> I think it was 100% legitimate, not a bot
19:09:52 <planetmaker> yeah, you were not the only one as I heard
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19:35:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26036 trunk/src/gfx_layout.cpp (2013-11-18 19:35:06 UTC)
19:35:10 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5809]: multi line text was handled incorrectly causing glitches
19:36:53 <LordAro> "const char *&str" looks wrong in my (inexperienced) eyes
19:37:00 <LordAro> what's it actually pointing to?
19:37:52 <rubenwardy> One of my towns reach 10,000! What do yours look like?
19:40:07 <Rubidium> LordAro: it's a reference to a pointer
19:41:37 <LordAro> right. and can that not be represented by "const char str" (i know it can't, but my "understanding" of '*' and '&' is that they're somewhat opposite of each other)
19:42:12 <frosch123> no, they are most right-associative
19:42:25 <Kjetil> That's in C. C++ in its infinite wisdom reused a lot of the tokens from C in new ways
19:42:36 <frosch123> LordAro: basically, everything that you can mess up with c syntax, is messed up
19:42:53 * LordAro sticks to smart pointers in c++ :p
19:42:59 <frosch123> & and * are only some of ther worst syntaxes
19:43:25 <Kjetil> Don't you just love struct constructors ? :P
19:43:25 <Alberth> adding parentheses can and does help in these cases :)
19:43:26 <frosch123> LordAro: you should still learn & though
19:43:33 <frosch123> specifically const &
19:43:35 <LordAro> yes, i think i understand that
19:43:58 <frosch123> const-references are important, esp. when using smart pointers
19:44:38 <andythenorth> presumably the articulated vehicle ID limit is some limitation due to word-sized vars or something?
19:44:47 <andythenorth> and not easy to increase?
19:45:14 <frosch123> it's limited by the cb result
19:45:21 <frosch123> and if you hit it, you are doing something wrong :)
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19:46:57 <andythenorth> frosch123: we'll probably hit it with Iron Horse. And I'm probably going to be watching a huge compile :(
19:47:49 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26037 trunk/src/gfx_layout.cpp (2013-11-18 19:47:43 UTC)
19:47:50 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26036): there was a reason they weren't references...
19:48:51 <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.3.2, 1.3.3-RC1
19:48:51 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.3.2, 1.3.3-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices"
19:49:10 <andythenorth> more releases :)
19:49:53 <andythenorth> so we (can't remember who) talked once about some kind of grf container format
19:50:03 * rubenwardy now has a triple track
19:50:11 <andythenorth> so bananas etc would see one package, but it would be implemented as multiple grfs
19:52:01 <andythenorth> one grf would be nominated as the master for the package, and provide action 14 stuff
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19:52:27 <frosch123> didn't you once said 10 engines are enough?
19:53:01 <andythenorth> he must have 6th sense :)
19:53:55 <andythenorth> DanMacK: so how many 'sets' are we thinking for IH?
19:54:09 <andythenorth> (worth talking about here, not on pm)
19:54:25 <DanMacK> I dunno, I've got a few in mind
19:55:26 <DanMacK> Def want to do a Chinese inspired, Russian, Ireland, NA (US and Canada), Aussie, New Zealand...
19:55:50 <andythenorth> and each set uses 500 (or 1,000) IDs
19:55:51 <DanMacK> a "light rail" type that has small stuff for island shuttling use
19:56:04 <DanMacK> how many have we got to play with?
19:56:04 <andythenorth> and we (probably) want them all in one grf
19:56:15 <andythenorth> -1000 for 'stuff'
19:56:17 <DanMacK> I was thinking separate - pick and choose
19:56:34 <DanMacK> or one - see what happens
19:56:51 <andythenorth> any other opinions here? One Iron Horse grf with params, or lots of Iron Horse grfs?
19:58:23 <andythenorth> from a playing p.o.v I dislike managing lots of grfs
19:58:39 <andythenorth> from a 'well nml is slow' p.o.v. I like separate grfs :P
19:58:57 <Rubidium> andythenorth: use eddi-nml?
19:59:08 <andythenorth> it's unsupported I believe :P
19:59:14 <andythenorth> the author gave me that impression :)
20:09:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26038 trunk/src/script/api/script_info_docs.hpp (2013-11-18 20:09:09 UTC)
20:09:16 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Doxygen syntax.
20:13:19 <frosch123> andy is a mistery to me :)
20:14:06 <frosch123> some month ago he complained about huge purchase lists, when 10 vehicles would be enough. and now he wants to code a grf with 500 purchase list items or more
20:14:32 <frosch123> definitely go for separate grfs imo
20:14:42 <andythenorth> and I want one set of these vehicles enabled at once
20:14:53 <andythenorth> I think 30 is about right, depending on game length
20:15:11 <andythenorth> I don't think it's much work to compile separate grfs from one codebase
20:16:10 <andythenorth> I guess I can test that :)
20:16:23 <andythenorth> also I won't be staring into a future with 10 minute compile time :)
20:29:42 <montalvo> can anyone tell me where crash logs are sent to on os x?
20:30:33 <planetmaker> ~/Documents/OpenTTD/crash*
20:30:45 <montalvo> i've been getting a pesky crash :(
20:31:15 <planetmaker> you tried our new release candidate 1.3.3-RC1?
20:31:25 <montalvo> yeah that's the one i'm on
20:31:29 <montalvo> i think it might be the AI crash again?
20:32:35 <montalvo> essentially, the game crashes on os x as soon as an AI starts play
20:33:09 <glx> any AI or a specific one ?
20:33:45 <montalvo> i'm trying to dig up the bug report for you
20:35:04 <montalvo> i *think* i got around it by compiling my own version of one of the newer nightlies
20:36:14 <montalvo> anyway yeah i just started a game on 1.3.3-RC1 without AIs and it runs fine
20:36:21 <Rubidium> sounds like gcc is broken or so
20:36:41 <Rubidium> too bad the CF uses a really ancient version of gcc
20:36:52 <montalvo> i compiled my own version with gcc and it ran fine i think
20:37:14 <Rubidium> but your gcc != the gcc on the compile farm, I'd reckon
20:39:55 <montalvo> i just went back to my self-compiled version of one of the nightly builds and that seems to crash for some other reason. it used to run fine on mountain lion so presumably it's an issue to do with mavericks
20:44:53 <LordAro> Rubidium: switch to clang ;) (on osx)
20:45:27 <Rubidium> LordAro: and how does one do that?
20:45:41 <Rubidium> or rather... please provide a cross compile environment ;)
20:45:43 <LordAro> in the same way that you tell the CF to use an old version of gcc?
20:46:44 <planetmaker> LordAro, you really want to know?
20:47:24 <planetmaker> rubi was faster than me :D
20:48:00 <Rubidium> also... we were never able to create a working CF with newer gccs than the one mentioned there
21:07:17 <LordAro> Rubidium, planetmaker: but, i do not see what the problem may be. obviously cut out the gcc part, and provide configure with "CC=clang"
21:07:46 <planetmaker> LordAro, the obvious problem is to compile the compiler
21:07:58 <planetmaker> a cross compiler working on linux, compiling an osx binary
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21:08:25 <planetmaker> and the other parts of the toolchain which it might need as well
21:09:20 <LordAro> "Clang/LLVM is natively a cross-compiler..."
21:09:43 <LordAro> obviously, i don't know all that much about compilers (or cross-compiling) but.. that seems helpful :)
21:10:13 * planetmaker adds a bookmark to that page
21:10:31 <Rubidium> LordAro: gcc is a cross-compiler itself as well
21:10:42 <aditsu> planetmaker: hey, so after growing that city for a while, it seems that it counts my airport now, but the station tile still has no local authority
21:12:34 <LordAro> Rubidium: but it seems not to work correctly? besides, it's pretty much deprecated on osx
21:12:52 <Rubidium> LordAro: and has clang already worked?
21:13:33 <LordAro> obviously not, but at least it's not 8 years old
21:13:39 <LordAro> it can't hurt to investigate a bit
21:13:57 <planetmaker> many things don't hurt :D
21:14:10 <Rubidium> i.e. spend 100+ hours trying to figure out whether you can create something that might compile
21:14:27 <LordAro> i'll let you have that point ;)
21:15:08 <LordAro> if i get sufficiently bored, i may investigate myself (y'know, funsies), but obviously i don't have access to a mac
21:15:27 <LordAro> or the libraries sdks contained within
21:15:44 <planetmaker> you can get the sdks for not more than registering with apple.com
21:17:31 <Rubidium> LordAro: you think TrueBrain had when he did create the cross compiler?
21:18:17 <LordAro> but he does mention copying the libraries across from a mac
21:18:43 <glx> LordAro: because it's easier than to try to open a dmg ;)
21:18:52 <Rubidium> yeah... begging for those files via IRC
21:19:05 <Rubidium> glx: 7z now opens dmgs, so that shouldn't be a problem anymore
21:20:50 <Rubidium> and you have to hope that everything to compile a proper compiler for OS X is available in the clang you find on the clang website
21:21:10 <Rubidium> I suspect that the clang apple uses is a significantly modified variant
21:21:33 <LordAro> if i understand the clang link above, i shouldn't have to compile clang specially
21:23:58 <LordAro> glx: according to the internet, 7z(ip) opens dmg files
21:24:26 <glx> Rubidium: like they did for gcc ?
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21:25:18 <Rubidium> LordAro: oh, you definitely have to
21:25:26 <LordAro> apple is a major contributor to clang, they have no reason to, really
21:25:37 <LordAro> (yes, i know that doesn't mean anything :L )
21:29:25 <LordAro> Rubidium: you sure? that documentation page doesn't mention it
21:30:03 <planetmaker> easiest way: test and prove :-)
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21:33:55 <Rubidium> LordAro: clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-arch x86-apple-darwin9'
21:34:12 <Rubidium> yet... -arch is the one to select a target to compile for
21:34:36 <LordAro> not according to that documentation page
21:35:23 <LordAro> you want "-target x86-apple-darwin" i think
21:37:13 <LordAro> my `clang --help` says otherwise
21:37:21 <LordAro> arch is not there, target is
21:39:24 <Rubidium> compiling cctools fails well... basically immediately
21:44:37 <Rubidium> oh joy... still need the proper SDK I fear
21:44:53 <LordAro> i'd be surprised if it was otherwise :)
21:46:10 <Rubidium> so, who fancies giving me the latest xcode dvd dmg?
21:46:53 <Rubidium> oh sorry, not newest... the 4.6 one
21:47:39 <michi_cc> I don't think there is any, new(er) Xcode are Mac App Store downloads.
21:48:09 <planetmaker> michi_cc, but you can download those w/o appstore from developer site
21:48:16 <planetmaker> including xcode 5
21:49:19 <Rubidium> I only think that going for a newer SDK also means dropping support for many older ones
21:49:21 <planetmaker> offers also Xcode 5.0.2
21:49:35 <planetmaker> oldest I see there is SDK 10.4
21:50:27 <Rubidium> oh, so the wikipedia page isn't telling the whole story
21:50:30 <planetmaker> and Xcode 2.3 and Xcode Tools 1.0
21:51:30 <Rubidium> anyhow, I can't be bothered to enter like 50 fields to sign up for something I don't actually want
21:51:32 <Eddi|zuHause> anybody solved my fdisk problem yet?
21:51:50 <Rubidium> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda ?
21:53:05 <Eddi|zuHause> the disk partition is set as "start=63" but if i delete it and create a new partition i can only enter numbers >=2048
21:56:05 <michi_cc> Rubidium: I have a Xcode 3.2.6 image somewhere
21:56:26 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, there's an "expert" mode that lets me move the beginning
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22:04:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Successfully resized NTFS on device '/dev/loop2'. that sounds promising
22:09:47 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, something isn't working
22:11:19 <Rubidium> michi_cc: I found some other way to get the dmg
22:17:27 <Rubidium> oh splendid... 7z can't handle it anymore :(
22:18:33 <LordAro> i assume you have a version that's less than 5 years old?
22:24:20 <LordAro> Rubidium: hmm, yes, same
22:24:50 <LordAro> hmm, in the 9.29 alpha "- DMG support was improved"
22:26:47 <LordAro> peazip claims it has full support for dmg, try that?
22:27:55 <Rubidium> that ain't in Debian :(
22:31:48 <Rubidium> oh... hidden away 64 bit
22:32:31 <Rubidium> ah, that seems succesful
22:32:51 <Rubidium> except that it needs a password
22:34:22 <Rubidium> so no OS X CF based on 4.6.3 by me
22:36:11 <LordAro> there's nothing (obvious) mentioned about it on the internets
22:36:23 <LordAro> is that the sdk download?
22:36:26 <Rubidium> well, I reckon OS X's finder has the key
22:39:37 <Rubidium> but this, again, shows that Apple doesn't fancy cross compiling to OS X
22:40:02 <LordAro> of course not, doesn't mean it's not possible
22:40:10 <Rubidium> and it doesn't allow running it on anything but OS X hardware
22:40:29 <Rubidium> and it doesn't have rack mounted hardware
22:40:29 * LordAro is in no way defending the idiot policies of apple
22:41:10 <Rubidium> so, I guess we're back to just dropping support for gcc < 4.4 ;)
22:41:27 <LordAro> i wouldn't say no, personally
22:41:52 <Rubidium> although... < 4.6, after all 4.5 isn't supported anyhow
22:41:58 <LordAro> other than the apple CF, you'd only lose people who use strange OSs, like amiga
22:42:38 <Rubidium> dropping support is more like "not supporting it for creating binaries"
22:43:11 <Rubidium> but sadly enough it doesn't really work, because then $random person is going to post binaries on the forum
22:43:29 <LordAro> could you not "support it for creating binaries" in that pm or someone similar builds it themselves and uploads it to openttd.org ?
22:43:49 <Rubidium> LordAro: *every* night?
22:43:59 <LordAro> obviously not for nightlies
22:44:00 <planetmaker> oh hell, please no
22:44:09 <glx> for releases that's possible
22:44:10 <LordAro> releases and candidates
22:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause> what do linux console people use for hex editing?
22:44:28 <planetmaker> then it gets less testing, more buggy releases etc
22:44:42 <LordAro> quite a few of the people who use nightlies on osx can compile themselves anyway
22:44:52 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: hexedit?
22:45:04 <Eddi|zuHause> no such commmand
22:45:04 <Rubidium> LordAro: and a larger amount can't
22:45:13 <Rubidium> but those that can't usually don't show up here
22:45:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and no such package either
22:45:22 <LordAro> but who cares about them?
22:45:32 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: i have it ;)
22:45:52 <planetmaker> LordAro, that's the whole point... so that people can *easily* test it
22:46:35 <LordAro> well, make it a temporary measure while you work on updating/fix the CF ;)
22:47:04 <Rubidium> LordAro: it is extremely tedious to upload a file into the download system
22:47:06 <planetmaker> why should we disable it - for a single bug?
22:47:58 <Rubidium> or isn't that the right word?
22:48:10 <LordAro> faulty, according to google
22:48:37 <planetmaker> fehlerträchtig, I'd assume, Rubidium
22:49:01 <planetmaker> but I don't know exactly what aspect you try to emphasize
22:49:27 <planetmaker> fehlerhaft = buggy; fehlerträchtig = simple to be done wrongly
22:50:30 <Rubidium> the one you mentioned gets mostly 'buggy' as well in translations
22:50:33 <Rubidium> maybe fehleranfällig is better?
22:50:35 <LordAro> there's nothing wrong with suspending auto builds for a platform you can't properly support
22:50:36 <Eddi|zuHause> ah... "ht" i have
22:50:54 <planetmaker> yeah, fehleranfällig ~= fehlerträchtig
22:52:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i never heard the word "fehlerträchtig" before
22:52:59 <planetmaker> you're known to have a particular dialect ;-)
22:53:30 <Rubidium> LordAro: under that premise we should drop OS X and Windows
22:53:51 <LordAro> i think you have at least some windows developers ;)
22:54:15 <Eddi|zuHause> people always tell me i have very little dialect :p
22:54:32 <Eddi|zuHause> (unless i speak english)
22:54:52 <Rubidium> LordAro: take a look at the bug tracker, sort by ID, then from the bottom go though the first 16. Which is more prominent?
22:54:58 <planetmaker> yeah, little for people living near saxony :-)
22:55:49 <Rubidium> having said that, 2/3 OS X issues are probably the broken CF
22:55:53 <Eddi|zuHause> fuck you, fdisk. hexedit works way better...
22:56:17 <Rubidium> 5/5 Windows issues seem to have nothing to do with the CF
23:04:19 <planetmaker> it needs log-in, lobster
23:07:53 <LordAro> ah, that's better, i hadn't registered correctly, apparently
23:08:31 <LordAro> so i don't want xcode 5?
23:08:43 <planetmaker> dunno. what do you want? :-)
23:08:54 <LordAro> i have no idea what i'm doing
23:08:55 <planetmaker> xcode5 is for 10.8 + 10.9 SDKs
23:09:13 <planetmaker> CF uses 10.4u SDK
23:10:12 <LordAro> is supporting ppc really necessary anymore? :L
23:10:17 <planetmaker> it wouldn't hurt to compile two... 10.3.9 ... 10.5. And 10.6+
23:10:40 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: allegedly ppc support is the least problematic
23:10:41 <planetmaker> LordAro, it's the only big-endian OS - CPU combination we support
23:11:00 <planetmaker> thus it's a nice test case for endianess stuff
23:11:15 <planetmaker> could be interesting for some ARM stuff in the future :-)
23:11:29 <glx> we already have 3 windows builds
23:11:58 <planetmaker> 10.6+ wouldn't even need to be universal. just 32bit suffices
23:12:25 <planetmaker> though... 64bit wouldn't hurt; I doubt there's any 32bit OS in 10.6+
23:12:37 * LordAro downloads xcode 4.6.2 for lolz
23:12:49 <NGC3982> The Swedish Aftonbladet (sensationalistic newspaper) just described the "Highly trained monkeys'-error message as a hacker attack.
23:12:51 <planetmaker> 10.4 already started the transition to 64 bit
23:12:59 <NGC3982> My faith in humanity got a mild stroke.
23:13:01 <planetmaker> and supported that somewhat
23:13:36 <planetmaker> 10.5 afaik 'finished' the transition
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