IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-11-04
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00:47:06 <Snowfyre> ugh, going from mg lev to steam feels so frustrating X3
00:51:01 <Snowfyre> and turning on infrastructure maintnence costs my game is already looking bleak
01:04:43 <Supercheese> Well, a challenge is nice, no?
01:04:53 <Supercheese> Often OTTD is very easy and sandboxy, which is nice
01:05:07 <Supercheese> but some tough constraints can be fun to overcome
01:11:33 <Snowfyre> yea, im barely survivng with 2 trains dragging water to a small town i cheated in >.> once i wasted away the remaining cheated money i found myself with less money than you start with so im sitting just under max loan with a double track line to the nearest water source
01:12:21 <Snowfyre> infrastructure is costing me $30k a year
01:59:09 <Snowfyre> slowly bringing my loan down
04:47:39 <Snowfyre> steam trains are so slow D:
05:19:23 <Snowfyre> whew, infrastructure costs build up fast
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06:56:21 <NGC3982> I wish the Android app worked right now.
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10:00:39 <peter1138> Arr, mouse batteries dying already :(
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10:18:13 <FLHerne> Try little chunks of apple. They like those :-)
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11:31:26 <MNIM> that's why smart people use mice with tails
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11:45:06 <peter1138> When I look in real shops, they only have crappy laptop-companion mice these days :(
11:46:05 <V453000> eshops sound real enough to me :P
11:46:20 <peter1138> Can't try it out for feel then, though.
11:47:27 <Xaroth|Work> laptop companion mice suck balls for working >1h with
11:47:54 <MNIM> laptop companion mice suck hairy balls to work with, period
11:48:14 <peter1138> G600 MMO mouse... 15 fecking buttons o_O
11:48:22 <Xaroth|Work> if you quickly need to do something I prefer those over a trackpad
11:48:49 <Japa_> Nothing beats a trackpoint, though.
11:48:54 <V453000> I bought Steelseries Sensei RAW Rubberized, superb for the price ... with no extra fecking buttons :)
11:49:22 <Xaroth|Work> even made my boss get me one for work
11:49:47 <Japa_> Incidentally, what's the maturity rating of this channel?
11:50:22 <Xaroth|Work> depends on the time of day, really
11:51:57 <Japa_> Just wondering weather to use TrackPoint™-style pointer, or clit-mouse.
11:53:03 <peter1138> They're not much of an option for a desktop PC.
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11:53:42 <Japa_> Not without a $50 keyboard, anyway.
11:53:42 <peter1138> I'm not willing to waste money on a crappy keyboard just for it.
11:54:00 <Japa_> And yeah, buying online can lead to surprises.
11:54:20 <peter1138> I have a £70 keyboard, heh.
11:54:38 <Japa_> I bought a razor gaming mouse online, and it turned out tiny.
11:54:58 <Japa_> come to think of it, had a similar experience with my girlfriend.
11:55:11 <peter1138> You bought a girlfriend online?
11:55:42 <Xaroth|Work> your girlfriend said it turned out tiny?
11:55:45 <V453000> well razer is cute but stupidly expensive for what they bring imo
11:56:22 <Japa_> I didn't buy her, but I did get to know her online first before meeting her later in person. She barely reaches my shoulder.
11:56:50 <peter1138> Better wait til she's older then.
11:56:54 <V453000> ._. this channel is weird
11:57:07 <Xaroth|Work> peter1138: you were too fast :P
11:57:33 <Japa_> Pecio, she's older than I am.
11:58:00 <V453000> still doesnt mean you are over 15
11:58:14 <Xaroth|Work> ffs, people keep typing faster than me :p
11:58:53 <peter1138> That razer is ... tiny ...
11:59:13 <peter1138> The MS mouse is quite nice while it still works.
11:59:20 <peter1138> Eventually the buttons give up though.
11:59:32 <peter1138> Been through a few of them...
12:00:18 <Japa_> Yeah, when I first opened the box, my reaction was all "the fuck is this shit?"
12:00:33 <peter1138> They seem to be adjustable from very small to a bit less small
12:00:34 <Japa_> I've grown to love it, though.
12:02:52 <MNIM> am I the only one who's perfectly fine with the standard compaq mouse that came with my PC?
12:04:52 <Japa_> MNIM, I buy new mice when old ones no longer function.
12:06:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i had a microsoft mouse once, it broke after half a year, and the warranty replacement a year later. then i switched to logitech
12:06:49 <Eddi|zuHause> ... which i had to warranty-replace after 2.5 years again
12:06:52 <peter1138> I find the non-slip pads come off eventually.
12:07:07 <peter1138> And then the plastic wears, and then it wobbles.
12:07:24 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, the pseudo-leather thing around the mouse wheel
12:07:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it dissolves into tiny particles which block everything on the inside
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12:16:46 <MNIM> peter1138: pretty much, but slightly newer and blacker. (2008)
12:17:18 <peter1138> Gosh, you must be a keyboard-warrior for a mouse to last that long :)
12:19:32 <frosch123> both my keyboard and mouse are from around 2000
12:20:08 <Tulitomaatti> i had my first mouse last me from around 2002 to 2010 or so
12:20:14 <Tulitomaatti> 'first' as in first optical
12:20:14 <frosch123> the mouse once had some gumming, but it got lost over the years
12:20:16 <Eddi|zuHause> now can one endure a mouse without wheel?
12:20:26 <frosch123> it kind of has the shape of my hand now :p
12:21:11 <frosch123> wasn't there a xkcd about people not using mouse wheels?
12:21:16 <peter1138> Hmm, I've got a dual-optics mouse somewhere.
12:21:31 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i think there was
12:22:32 <Eddi|zuHause> in ~20 years of computer usage i had like 10 mice
12:22:52 <Eddi|zuHause> some longer, others shorter
12:23:51 <frosch123> yeah, that was the case before i got the first generation of optical mouses
12:25:46 <frosch123> actually, most likely the cause was that i also bought a ps/2 wire extension
12:25:57 <frosch123> so that the wire had actually a sufficient length
12:27:01 <frosch123> (mind that i tried wireless before, but it turned out crap)
12:27:50 <Eddi|zuHause> early wireless was crap, but nowadays it's good
12:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause> just the rechargable batteries don't last very long
12:29:40 <Eddi|zuHause> non-rechargables were advertised to last about a year, but they were empty after about 3 months. and i'm not buying batteries that often
12:30:35 <frosch123> yeah, batteries were always empty when i needed the mouse the most
12:30:45 <frosch123> today i avoid any battery powered devices
12:31:07 <frosch123> sadly there are only battery powered cell phones
12:31:22 <Eddi|zuHause> empty batteries refresh your skills in keyboard-accessibility :p
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12:32:11 <Eddi|zuHause> well, rechargables are fine, i just switch them with the ones in the DECT phone
12:32:49 <MNIM> also, I have a wacom tablet which I use(d) for most mouse duties
12:32:57 <Eddi|zuHause> just the warning that the batteries get empty is sometimes not working
12:33:01 <MNIM> sadly that one has died on me this year.
12:33:34 <peter1138> Dunno where the mouse for my Wacom has gone, but it doesn't have a wheel anyway :(
12:33:55 <peter1138> Also, it's awkward using a mouse with a fixed surface.
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13:03:49 <Thurak> what settings would be good to make for a harder difficulty
13:05:28 <V453000> everything cheap, let everyone get tons of trains
13:10:49 <Thurak> well, lots of rivers will be harder
13:11:00 <frosch123> Thurak: just in case: there is no point in trying to make ottd harder with money. all income in ottd grows exponential with how much you are building
13:11:12 <frosch123> so, higher costs only make the early game slower and boring
13:11:18 <frosch123> but they change nothing overall
13:11:45 <frosch123> you cannot make ottd "hard", you can only make it "interesting"
13:11:58 <frosch123> by providing non-money challenges or non-money goals
13:11:59 <Thurak> what makes it more interesting then
13:12:22 <Thurak> oh, like fill in the ocean or something like that
13:12:32 <frosch123> mountains, no terraforoming, short bridges and tunnels
13:12:57 <V453000> e.g. have a large network with many trains transporting a lot of cargo while making it look nice
13:13:15 <Thurak> just making a rail look nice is a challenge for me atm..
13:13:18 <V453000> level 2, invent something interesting how to make the network
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13:13:40 <V453000> well then consider if you running a server is a good option :P
13:13:45 <V453000> perhaps learning something first is a good idea
13:14:39 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> mountains, no terraforoming, short bridges and tunnels <-- and steep slopes
13:14:51 <Thurak> normally i start with something like a few truck networks, once i get a resonable amount of money i make a few long distance rails
13:14:58 <Eddi|zuHause> then early newgrf (ca. 1850)
13:15:11 <Thurak> i started this one on 1800
13:15:13 <V453000> steep slopes can be massively abused on downhills Eddi :P
13:15:43 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: we need to model braking power for that :)
13:15:53 <Thurak> i have a newgrf that would allow me to start in 1700, but that would leave me using the same 4 horse truck for 120 years
13:16:18 <Eddi|zuHause> low braking power => massively reduced speed limit downhill
13:16:34 <V453000> that sounds rather dumb
13:16:41 <V453000> you want your train to accelerate on the downhill :)
13:16:56 <V453000> increasing steepness would then only hurt uphill for no gain on downhill
13:16:58 <V453000> now it is nice balance
13:17:06 <Thurak> i see nothing wrong with a steam engine going 300mph down a near vertical slope :)
13:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause> for certain values of "nice" and "balance" :p
13:22:11 <Thurak> can you turn off the warning messages for vehciles making a loss?
13:22:59 <Thurak> these horses move at 13kmh, takes just over a year to make a £330 trip, but they cost £37/year, making a large profit but some years they wont have quite made a delivery, so the game says im losing money from them
13:23:30 <V453000> perhaps start the game in some intelligent date like 1920 for most newGRFs
13:24:13 <juzza1> go to advanced settings - vehicles - warn if a vehicle's income is negative
13:24:39 <Thurak> thx, and date wouldnt help much because when i have faster things i will have them go further :P
13:24:49 <Thurak> i often have trips that last over a year, large map size
13:25:14 <V453000> enjoy the large map size then
13:25:47 <V453000> honestly having things go 100-200 tiles is about maximum reasonable for start
13:26:06 <V453000> 512*512 is more than enough for anything :)
13:26:18 <Thurak> what about vacuum rails
13:26:25 <V453000> when I play alone I generally stay in an area within 256x256
13:26:36 <V453000> trains that travel so fast I can barely see them? why
13:26:48 <V453000> I would rather use a smaller map I can actually fill, lags less, and is more fun
13:27:28 <Thurak> ah, my notebook is fast enough i dont get lag on this size
13:27:36 <Thurak> at least i dont get, i might if i had lots more stuff on it
13:28:06 <MNIM> my road vehicle income is just as large as my train income.
13:28:13 <V453000> well making more things on smaller space is more interesting anyway
13:28:21 <V453000> e.g. building a long straight line is just plain dull
13:29:21 <V453000> make 500 trains on 256x256, much more entertaining and interesting
13:29:54 <V453000> or 1000, idk how much you feel like :)
13:30:52 <Thurak> isnt that where you start turning the map into a circuitboard of rails?
13:31:54 <Thurak> i think the most i have got to so far is 2 rails each way
13:32:45 <V453000> doesnt mean you cant get further :)
13:33:16 <Thurak> thats as far as the industry grew
13:33:58 <Thurak> not sure if passengers would be better
13:34:14 <V453000> well you need many industries for sure :P
13:34:32 <Thurak> yes, that was my main one tho as it had been growing since i started
13:34:37 <V453000> cant say I would consider 1 industry a "network" :)
13:34:44 <Thurak> think ill try build up some citys
13:44:36 <Thurak> why am i getting 'autorenew failed on vehicle xx (money limit)
13:44:42 <Thurak> the renew cost is about £1000, i have £100,000
13:45:46 <juzza1> by default you need 200k for the renew to work, you can change it in the settings
13:46:20 <Thurak> i guess thats to stop you accidently spending everything you have
13:46:48 <V453000> autorenew is worthless if you have breakdowns off (which you honestly should)
13:48:15 <Thurak> i was replacing with faster vehicles
13:48:21 <Thurak> but the message still calls it autorenew
13:49:26 <V453000> well disabling those messages is also a good idea :D
13:51:47 <Thurak> seems to be replacing as i go over 100k
13:52:02 <Thurak> when my money drops below 100k it rails upgrade
13:52:22 <Thurak> well its almost done them now anyway
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14:12:13 <Thurak> is there a limit to the size a city can grow
14:15:51 <V453000> simply the point where houses start dying the same speed as growing
14:16:44 <Thurak> i was thinking it was 2147483647 as thats the limit of 32bit numbers
14:24:00 <NGC3982> Can someone hilight me, please.
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14:40:07 <Xaroth|Work> NGC3982: you know that's asking for trouble right?
14:40:19 <peter1138> When I need to know the limits of this game, I don't look at the source code, I ask V453000...
15:09:19 <Rubidium> @calc 2046*2046*2/3*255
15:09:45 <V453000> congratulations you got a high number :D
15:10:12 <Rubidium> ^ that is the maximum a town can grow, although maybe you can get it slightly further if you can bring the road density down even more
15:10:34 <Rubidium> no, it's more a theoretical maximum
15:10:46 <V453000> above 2-3m, houses are just replaced, population stops increasing :)
15:10:53 <V453000> is theoretical any useful? :P
15:11:18 <adf88> theoretically there can be no roads
15:11:39 <Rubidium> adf88: true, but then they don't grow and die pretty quickly
15:11:45 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 1067459580
15:11:52 <V453000> nuff sed :D me goes home
15:12:02 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 1068503295
15:12:05 <Rubidium> ^ that's the number in that case ;)
15:13:07 <Rubidium> V453000: I agree, lets go home ;)
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15:13:21 <frosch123> V453000: your observation restricts the number of houses
15:13:34 <frosch123> you still need a house sets which sets population to max for each house
15:17:51 <Snowfyre> is there any way to remove a city?
15:19:26 <adf88> only in scenario editor
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15:24:37 <George> Hi. I'd like to ask about FS#5588
15:25:07 <George> It's time after time I return back to this fnctionality
15:25:21 <George> And miss it again and again
15:25:31 <George> Is it that hard to do?
15:25:42 <George> Could someone please do it?
15:26:13 <George> All I need is a possibility to disallow refit
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15:47:52 <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> @calc 2046*2046*2/3*255 <-- if you have parallel roads every 4th tile, you have 3/4-epsilon. just have to remove stump roads all the time
15:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> (epsilon is for the connection between the roads, preferably through the town center)
15:52:17 <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't want to remove the stump roads, you can have 3x4 grids, so 12 houses out of 20 tiles, meaning 3/5 (assuming "better roads")
15:52:58 <Eddi|zuHause> on 4x4 you don't get houses on the middle tiles
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15:56:15 <nickshanks> I am trying to compile on Mac OS X 10.9 and getting linker errors for functions under std::string:: Has anyone been able to compile on Mavericks yet?
15:56:38 <Eddi|zuHause> try an older SDK
15:56:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the newest SDK misses some 8-bit colour functions
15:57:30 <nickshanks> I #if'd those out but can't seem to get past the linker
15:58:09 <Eddi|zuHause> then i don't know
15:58:14 <nickshanks> how would I change the SDK anyway?
15:59:09 <nickshanks> Xcode 5 comes with 10.9 and 10.8 SDKs, nothing older. both of those use libstdc++.6.0.9.dylib
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16:59:46 <planetmaker> iirc you can get the older sdk from the apple site, nickshanks
17:02:00 <__ln__> but since a lot of people have successfully compiled OpenTTD on 10.8, i don't see why using 10.8 SDK wouldn't work.
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17:43:32 <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of which, anyone considered a "--without-8bpp" configure switch?
18:00:04 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25938 trunk/src/object_cmd.cpp (2013-11-04 17:59:58 UTC)
18:00:05 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5798] (r25876): Don't mistake a lighthouse for a transmitter and vice versa
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18:45:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25939 /trunk/src/lang (japanese.txt latvian.txt) (2013-11-04 18:45:15 UTC)
18:45:23 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:24 <DorpsGek> japanese - 1 changes by guppy
18:45:25 <DorpsGek> latvian - 15 changes by Parastais
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18:52:45 <nickshanks> planetmaker: i've just looked and don't see anything on developer.apple.com/downloads/ nor in the downloads tab of the Xcode prefs. I cannot connect to connect.apple.com at the moment (ironically)
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18:58:30 <planetmaker> you might need to login to apple and you can get XCode and SDKs to at least 10.4 backwards
19:00:09 <planetmaker> sometimes they're bundled with an old version of XCode
19:01:14 <nickshanks> agh, well i have various macs with older Xcode's on them, can I just copy over the SDK bundles? I presumed i had to get ones that were specific to Xcode 5
19:01:39 <planetmaker> obviously it's not possible to provide links to SDKs directly
19:02:15 <planetmaker> SDK and XCode are different stuff really. For OpenTTD you don't need XCode at all
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19:02:24 <nickshanks> are you a/theresident mac developer?
19:02:49 <planetmaker> I'd not call myself that
19:03:15 <nickshanks> who would be the name to look out for in this channel?
19:03:32 <planetmaker> But I'm the only OpenTTD developer who acknowledges to possess apple hardware, a (meanwhile very old) macbook
19:03:39 <Alberth> nobody, there isn't a resident mac developer
19:03:57 <Alberth> we are still looking for one
19:04:01 <nickshanks> okay, well once i am up and running I don't mind being that person.
19:04:10 <planetmaker> I said that once, too ;-)
19:04:17 <nickshanks> i am a the resident mac developer on FreeCol
19:04:17 <Alberth> plenty of open issues to fix :p
19:04:28 <planetmaker> It started to annoy me that apple breaks things on an annual basis
19:04:34 <LordAro> didn't michicc fix most of them?
19:05:11 <planetmaker> he fixed some. But without access to apple hardware
19:05:17 <__ln__> nickshanks: 19:02 < __ln__> but since a lot of people have successfully compiled OpenTTD on 10.8, i don't see why using 10.8 SDK wouldn't work.
19:05:19 <nickshanks> i just got myself a retina MBP with 16 GB of ram and an SSD (my first machine with one)
19:06:04 <nickshanks> __ln__: thanks for repeating: i had just left the office at that time, so didn't catch the message
19:06:16 <nickshanks> how does one switch SDKs with ./configure + make
19:06:33 <__ln__> you specify the SDK to use in the CFLAGS
19:07:12 <nickshanks> agh, i was messing about with LDFLAGS trying to fix the linker :)
19:07:43 <nickshanks> why when i type ahh does OS X keep changing it? hmm, another mystery of Apple
19:09:16 <LordAro> planetmaker: which makes it all the more impressive :)
19:11:32 <planetmaker> nickshanks, you might need to provide also a different isystem=...
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19:12:08 <nickshanks> 3 questions with that, what is -i, what is system, and what valid values are there?
19:17:27 <nickshanks> i googled for ./configure cflags macosx sdk and am now compiling with -mmacosx-version-min and -isysroot
19:17:27 <planetmaker> right... I need to start recalling the details
19:18:06 <nickshanks> does CXXFLAGS have to match CFLAGS?
19:18:41 <nickshanks> same linker failuer
19:18:45 <planetmaker> well, not 100%. But the differences are defined in config.lib
19:18:57 <planetmaker> the rest better be the same usually
19:19:00 <nickshanks> i will try copying an older sdk
19:20:07 <planetmaker> they go in /Developer/SDKs
19:20:12 <planetmaker> but you likely know that :-)
19:20:26 <nickshanks> they co in /Applications/Xcode.app/
19:21:01 <nickshanks> I've been a Mac programmer for 19 years. you'd think i'd be good at this :D
19:21:10 <__ln__> correctomundo, they don't use /Developer anymore at all
19:21:35 <planetmaker> see, then you know all that stuff much better than me
19:21:52 <__ln__> nickshanks: what have you been doing if you've never needed to specify the SDK to use in 19 years?
19:22:15 <nickshanks> never need to specify it with makefiles
19:22:35 <nickshanks> either used ProjectBuilder/Xcode or SDKs did exist
19:22:39 <planetmaker> well. You usually don't here either. As the makefile will find the appropriate one
19:23:16 <planetmaker> But if you want the non-default, thus an older one... :-)
19:23:20 <andythenorth> what are we doing? Compiling on Mavericks? o_O
19:23:42 <LordAro> nickshanks: in case you haven't noticed, configure/makefile is hand-written - nothing is likely to be entirely 'normal' ;)
19:23:46 <andythenorth> kerno(?) worked it out
19:23:53 <andythenorth> link to the 10.8 SDK
19:24:05 <andythenorth> and turn of lzma and something else
19:24:09 <andythenorth> and set some flags
19:24:13 <andythenorth> it's all in the logs from last week or so
19:24:15 <planetmaker> while that's a workaround, that's not a good solution in the mid-term
19:24:31 <planetmaker> why turn-off lzma? That's a totally different 3rd-party lib?
19:24:36 <nickshanks> andythenorth: where can i read those logs?
19:25:04 <nickshanks> crap, can't type yet on this new kbd
19:25:16 <planetmaker> did they also re-arrange keys? :D
19:25:25 <nickshanks> yes, they are further apart
19:25:37 <andythenorth> we should wiki that :P
19:26:31 <andythenorth> zydeco worked it out iirc
19:26:44 <andythenorth> I tested it on my wife's mac
19:27:14 <nickshanks> i disabled lama, and #if'd out the 8 bit stuff, but am stuck at the linker issue
19:28:09 <andythenorth> iirc, I edited nothing
19:28:12 <Rubidium> just install ubuntu. It already got 10.10
19:28:20 <andythenorth> just set flags on configure and make
19:28:32 <andythenorth> but it's all in those logs :)
19:28:55 <nickshanks> zydeco used LDFLAGS="-stdlib=libstdc++"
19:29:02 <nickshanks> that'll be the fix i need
19:29:04 <andythenorth> planetmaker: the lzma is unrelated to 10.9, but I couldn't get a valid version on a clean-installed mavericks
19:29:18 <andythenorth> I tried brew. I refuse macports. It was easier to ignore it
19:32:01 <planetmaker> andythenorth, I refuse brew. I read their instructions and they are as safe as rm -rf /*
19:32:17 <andythenorth> it's written in ruby, what could go wrong? :P
19:32:21 <andythenorth> famously high standards
19:32:32 <andythenorth> planetmaker: that leaves us with no decent package manager on OS X :(
19:32:38 <andythenorth> macports is a world of shame
19:35:28 <nickshanks> compiled, linked, running
19:35:50 <nickshanks> where might i find the development graphics sets?
19:36:13 <nickshanks> I will update the wiki (if "the public" have such permission)
19:36:28 <andythenorth> nickshanks: thanks :)
19:36:34 <nickshanks> anyway, much go sort out screaming baby
19:36:48 <andythenorth> must have the same life as me
19:37:37 <andythenorth> so did I miss anything?
19:41:45 <andythenorth> frosch123: I was thinking about the simple suggestion for tech levels (just use a fake date)
19:42:09 <andythenorth> I like the simplicity, but I wonder if it makes it hard to do 'level up'
19:42:20 <andythenorth> the GS might advance from 1951 tech to 1953 tech
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19:43:44 <DJGummikuh> Is there ANY way (hacks will do) to connect the openttd ingame chat to an irc channel?
19:44:00 <planetmaker> obviously yes. At least two
19:44:17 <DJGummikuh> huh? I did some googling and turned up nothing
19:44:20 <planetmaker> the old deprecated way is to use a wrapper like ap+
19:44:38 <Alberth> oh dear, google is missing some information!
19:44:38 <DJGummikuh> and the new, shiny way?
19:44:48 <planetmaker> and the new and supported way is to interface the admin port with a bot which can transfer the chat between game and IRC
19:44:52 <DJGummikuh> Alberth: haha, jus wanted to state that I did not try google first :)
19:45:08 <DJGummikuh> err that I DID try google first
19:45:25 <DJGummikuh> planetmaker: is there documentation on that?
19:45:41 <planetmaker> are two implementations
19:45:49 <__ln__> and the third way is to hire someone in india to manually type messages back and forth
19:46:02 <DJGummikuh> __ln__: are you offering yourself? ;)
19:46:04 <Alberth> or hire someone to do it for you
19:46:26 <__ln__> DJGummikuh: sorry, never been to india
19:46:29 <planetmaker> __ln__, distinctly doesn't look Indian
19:46:45 <DJGummikuh> well fiji will do :)
19:47:44 <DJGummikuh> oh how brilliant... grapes is java <3
19:48:15 <DJGummikuh> We're planning on building up a community with several games with their chats all linked to each other cross-game
19:48:24 <DJGummikuh> being a java programmer, grapes suits my needs perfectly
19:48:27 <DJGummikuh> thanks for the help
19:49:08 <planetmaker> DJGummikuh, if you want to develop based on grapes, I'm sure the author will happily accept patches or collaborate
19:50:50 <planetmaker> he's the author of the python lib which soap is based on
19:51:17 <Xaroth|Work> all the pull requests Taede makes
19:51:31 <planetmaker> :) He's quite industrious
19:51:45 <Xaroth|Work> speaking of which, is soap in use already?
19:51:49 <Xaroth|Work> or in test still?
19:52:25 <planetmaker> it's not yet in production use. Though I actual plan to do that rather sooner than later
19:52:39 <planetmaker> we're kinda beta-testing it now
19:54:00 <DJGummikuh> ah by the way one thing that always bothered me since I first played transport tycoon - why are the planes so friggin slow and only sped up by option?
19:54:00 <planetmaker> well. Use on the #openttdcoop servers
19:54:18 <Xaroth|Work> because planes are otherwise overpowered as boot
19:54:36 <DJGummikuh> huh? how so? Expensive as hell and limited cargo hold
19:54:53 <planetmaker> planes are no-brain money. Even more than anything else. No need to make them no-brain mega-money
19:54:59 <DJGummikuh> having a 20 car train running all across the map is way way more profitable than 40 planes
19:55:06 <andythenorth> planes print money
19:55:17 <andythenorth> ok so no-one bit on tech levels :(
19:55:20 <Alberth> DJGummikuh: try a smaller map
19:55:22 <andythenorth> I also had an actual GS idea
19:55:46 <Xaroth|Work> DJGummikuh: try having airports on either sides of the map
19:56:09 <DJGummikuh> and my planes always break down before making a single trip xD
19:56:12 <Xaroth|Work> the bigger the map, the more vastly more money they accumulate
19:57:47 <planetmaker> there's simply absolute no challange in setting up an air route
19:58:29 <DJGummikuh> still I like planes :)
19:58:37 <planetmaker> anyway, you got the option to set speeds for all vehicles identically. So... no problem. Just use the setting
19:58:46 <planetmaker> for people like you we have it
19:58:55 <DJGummikuh> yeah but up until now I did not understand why this isn't default. now I doo
19:59:02 <DJGummikuh> I must admit I'm really a fan of this channel...
19:59:10 <DJGummikuh> You ask a question and get a helpful awnser
19:59:25 <planetmaker> must have found the happy hour here ;-)
19:59:30 <DJGummikuh> not this" omg you n00b moron idiot you should do this and that instead of what you are intending because you are an idiot and I'm soo leet"
20:00:32 <DJGummikuh> happens especially often in Minecraft channels )
20:00:48 <Xaroth|Work> that's because the average age in here is 20-ood years above that of the average MC channel...
20:00:51 <V453000> just dont say realism and you are rather safe
20:01:00 <Xaroth|Work> and I'm not claiming our average age is high
20:01:10 <planetmaker> hehe, Xaroth :-) yeah
20:01:20 <DJGummikuh> V453000: :) btw what do you think about that "Transport Tycoon" you can buy for android?
20:01:32 <planetmaker> though for a game channel it actually might
20:02:17 <planetmaker> And I don't think about that TT. I don't own a device which could run it
20:02:32 *** nickshanks has joined #openttd
20:02:34 <DJGummikuh> well my phone can run openttd for sure
20:02:49 <DJGummikuh> I just don't see any TTD in the transport tycoon you can buy there
20:02:55 <V453000> then play openttd because it is probably endlessly better than that thing you just mentioned
20:03:05 <Tulitomaatti> damn mental hilights.
20:03:32 <DJGummikuh> V453000: what I love most is that you can play on PC servers :) I mean which commercial game offers that?
20:03:54 <DJGummikuh> none I could think of
20:03:56 <V453000> which commercial game runs on mac? :D
20:04:12 <DJGummikuh> well mac and android are two different things [citation needed]
20:04:17 <Tulitomaatti> sc2, most blizzard games (up to snow lion)
20:04:41 <Tulitomaatti> eve, i guess wow does as well. many source engine games.
20:04:56 <nickshanks> all Bungie games up until Halo :)
20:05:19 <DJGummikuh> yeah but as said, android is a completely different thing. because you usually don't have keboard and mouse there, which gives you either an advantage or an disatvantage
20:05:27 <Tulitomaatti> anything there is supposed to work.
20:05:38 <Tulitomaatti> though i'm still kinda mad at apple for removing rosetta stone support
20:05:42 <V453000> supposed to is good wording
20:05:44 <Tulitomaatti> that makes running old blizzard games a PITA
20:06:08 <nickshanks> mac games: feralinteractive.com macplay.com aspyr.com are all my old friends and/or ex-employers
20:06:08 <Tulitomaatti> V453000: all the ones i've tried work.
20:06:52 <Tulitomaatti> though i do have a couple of cursewords reserved for the os x port/version keeping up/matching with the pc version (multiplayer issues)
20:06:53 <V453000> then you have a slight more objective advantage over my research over my 0, but that still does not stop me from random whining \o/
20:07:43 <Tulitomaatti> i shall go acquire foodstuffs
20:07:43 <nickshanks> sorry i had to dash earlier, but can someone give me a link to where i can get the graphics for SVN builds?
20:07:56 <Tulitomaatti> my parmesan and some of it's friends had turned in to science projects in the fridge
20:08:07 <andythenorth> nickshanks: baby drama resolved?
20:08:20 <nickshanks> Weird Al - Livin' in the fridge
20:08:27 <planetmaker> last push or last nightly
20:09:29 <planetmaker> which reminds me.... meh
20:10:11 <planetmaker> oh. missed it. yes
20:10:15 <planetmaker> that's one day newer
20:10:43 * nickshanks wonders what happened 5,056 days ago
20:11:24 <planetmaker> but you should do the math back from the commit date. Though I think it is today. Or yesterday
20:13:42 <planetmaker> nothing notworthy actually happend then. But not few wer surprised by that
20:14:40 <nickshanks> I am copying thr 10.4, 10.5 and 10.6 sdks from an Xcode 3 folder
20:14:58 <nickshanks> will go look for 10.7 in an xcode 4 install later
20:16:32 <planetmaker> btw: FOLDER="v`getdays2000`"
20:17:07 <V453000> there is no folder called v.
20:17:59 <nickshanks> my first job will be to add retina support (aka detection)
20:18:26 <nickshanks> anyway, time to put the kids to bed. thanks for the help.
20:18:38 <V453000> put them to their rest!
20:23:49 <Alberth> Luckily it will take a lot of days before we have several V453000
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20:24:07 <V453000> you better be happy about that
20:27:10 <Taede> Xaroth: its not in use yet (that i know of), but its not far off
20:30:44 <planetmaker> Xaroth, basically we've prepared the server. We just need to switch the DNS to point to the new VM
20:32:22 <Taede> theres a few commands missing (mainly wrt to password-keys and the endgame transfer) for the ps, other than that i think i got most
20:32:51 <planetmaker> Taede, the !transfer command is basically just a shell script being called
20:33:24 <planetmaker> Is there support to add a generic command e.g. by having an identically-named shell script in a scripts folder or so?
20:38:43 <Taede> i may look into that, i just have to work out how those scripts would intereact with active connections
20:38:44 <planetmaker> well, not that important. Only nice-to-have :-)
20:39:01 <planetmaker> don't look into it before we actually start using it. It's v1.5 or 2.0 :)
20:39:13 <Taede> v2 will be more modular
20:39:26 <Taede> but it will be a long time before i get that done
20:39:42 <Taede> v1 is fairly monolithic, but it works well
20:41:13 <planetmaker> that's more important than modular :-)
20:41:39 <planetmaker> modular but not working wouldn't help us get along :-)
20:42:16 <Taede> nop, i just have a lot more to learn to make that work well
20:43:00 <Taede> on a related note: content update currently executes and then immediately sends rcon-end packet
20:43:13 <Taede> can this rcon end packet be delayed untill the content connection is established?
20:44:20 <Taede> or wiht the connection-established being an event within openttd, will this prove difficult?
20:44:27 <Rubidium> not really. All DNS resolution is done in a separate thread as it can take a while before that's done
20:45:00 <Taede> fair enough, not really important anyway
20:45:00 <Rubidium> there is some internal callback somewhere though
21:04:18 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
21:05:46 <andythenorth> not now, but tomorrow if you remind me :)
21:05:54 <andythenorth> unless someone else gets there first :P
21:09:34 *** Snowfyre has joined #openttd
21:20:08 *** Progman has joined #openttd
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21:44:10 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25940 /extra/website (4 files in 3 dirs) (2013-11-04 21:44:04 UTC)
21:44:11 <DorpsGek> [website] -Change: Dissolve the 'links' page into 'development', 'contact' and a new 'community' page.
21:45:14 <peter1138> Is ruby just really slow, or is it gitlab?
21:52:40 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25941 /extra/website (12 files in 7 dirs) (2013-11-04 21:52:33 UTC)
21:52:41 <DorpsGek> [Website] -Update: bananas versions, blacklist
21:52:42 <DorpsGek> [Website] -Fix: https everywhere, erroneously cached pages
21:56:36 *** AndChat-245616 has quit IRC
22:18:55 <Eddi|zuHause> "erroneously cached pages" <-- is that the "login page is in japanese" thing?
22:24:01 <frosch123> i guess it were some attempts about that
22:24:12 <frosch123> anyway, all of that stuff was done months ago
22:24:28 <frosch123> only now committed :p
22:32:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i guessed as much
continue to next day ⏵
