IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-10-25
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18:51:20 <andythenorth> does anyone understand the FIRS primary industry supply boost code?
18:51:31 <andythenorth> there is a bug report in forums which looks plausible
18:52:56 <andythenorth> for reference SUPPLY_BOOST_QUADRUPLE is 84
18:53:09 <andythenorth> and the bug is that boost occurs for > 84, but not for == 84
18:54:09 <Alberth> change it to 83? (or 84-1)
18:54:16 <Taede> supply_boost_quad = constant?
18:54:23 <Taede> if so, change > to => ?
18:54:52 <andythenorth> is that a comparison operator, or is this bit shifting?
18:54:58 <andythenorth> I can't read this code :)
18:55:01 <kero> oh, I'm not the only one not understanding this code ? :)
18:55:18 <kero> (i'm the keoz of the report)
18:55:23 <andythenorth> I wanted to refactor it a long time ago to use the production multiplier, but I can't understand it
18:55:35 <Taede> ive never read pnml before, but it seems to be an inline-if
18:56:00 <andythenorth> if it used production multiplier then in theory game scripts could manipulate production independently of newgrf (they have no ability to this, but the theory is nice)
18:57:49 <Alberth> good point Taede, the two > at line 24 may be changeable to >= to fix the problem
18:58:35 <Taede> if >= quad then store 3, if >= double then store 1, else store 0, thats how i read that line
18:59:29 <andythenorth> someone try it and compile?
18:59:35 <andythenorth> compiling takes 4 mins :)
19:00:05 * Taede will leave that to someone who has newgrf compiling set up
19:05:37 <kero> I'd be willing to try, but i'll need to install all the weird dependencies
19:09:15 <Alberth> it has weird dependencies? :o
19:25:21 <alluke> there seems to be a bug in ecs vectors
19:25:53 <alluke> coal mines decrease all time even if theres continuous demand
19:26:11 <Supercheese> you may have to feed the mines some supplies or whatnot
19:26:38 <alluke> other industries can keep the 100% without supplies
19:27:14 <alluke> cheated two coal mines to 100 and theyve dropped to 76 now
19:31:28 <Alberth> do shorter trains work?
19:31:43 <kero> mmh, nml wants PIL, but on my system there already is Python-Pillow (a fork), both are in conflict. Would nml use pillow ?
19:32:31 <alluke> why would theymy coal trains carry 1288-1344 tons at once
19:34:03 <Supercheese> Well, tonnes must be larger, it has more letters :P
19:34:30 <Alberth> Pillow is supposed to be a drop-in for PIL
19:36:58 <Alberth> alluke: shorter trains -> more visits -> higher station rating -> happy industry
19:37:31 <alluke> now that doesnt make any sense
19:37:54 <alluke> i prefer bigger and fewer trains because less trains
19:38:07 <Alberth> ever read the game mechanics wiki page?
19:38:40 <kero> mmh and nml wants setuptools, but the setuptools in Arch repositories doesnt support python 3 ...
19:38:59 <kero> Ok, this is becoming boring. I'll try another time.
19:39:00 <alluke> but thats the most stupid feature ive heard for a while
19:39:27 <kero> WARNING: Sorry, python 3.0 or later is not yet supported. Some parts may not work.
19:39:46 <Alberth> and it will run without actual install
19:40:34 <kero> mmh. All of this is quite cryptic
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19:41:35 <Supercheese> Seems like you have low station ratings, despite trains always loading
19:41:39 <Taede> try python2 setup.py install?
19:41:53 <Taede> so that itll use python 2.x provided its installed
19:42:34 <kero> python 2 is installed, as is python 3
19:42:40 <alluke> that station is rated 68%
19:43:34 <kero> Taede : i have still the same error : "ImportError: No module named setuptools"
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19:45:01 <Supercheese> ECS wants ratings higher than 68% for max production
19:45:34 <Alberth> just run it uninstalled :)
19:46:17 <kero> Anyway, I dont like installing as root not repositories-material
19:46:20 <andythenorth> one day I'll write down a bomb-proof way to get nml
19:46:36 <Supercheese> My first time trying to install nml dependencies was a disaster too
19:46:41 <andythenorth> it's a cluster fuck :)
19:46:44 <Supercheese> I eventually got it working
19:46:58 <Alberth> kero I have a soft-link from my ~/bin to the nml main program
19:47:12 <andythenorth> most python packaging is a cluster fuck
19:47:18 <kero> ok, now let's go for chameleon/markdown (? :/)
19:47:26 <andythenorth> once setuptools is fixed / replaced (which is happening) life gets better
19:47:29 <planetmaker> apt-get install python-markdown
19:47:36 <planetmaker> apt-get install python-chameleon
19:47:51 <Alberth> oh, firs source code :D
19:47:52 <andythenorth> everyone has their own methods :)
19:48:03 <kero> Alberth : what is it the main ? just nmlc ?
19:48:06 <Supercheese> smells like linux
19:48:24 <planetmaker> yes. just nmlc in binary path suffices
19:48:31 <kero> planetmaker : i have mardown but not chameleon on Arch
19:48:45 <andythenorth> I don't want to throw in confusing advice, but I now do zero python without a virtualenv. ymmv. just saying
19:50:16 <kero> mmh for markdown: do I need the python implementation ?
19:50:27 <Alberth> frosch123: eints update reverted my plural form changes on coratian and brazilian in firs
19:50:32 <kero> community/python2-markdown 2.3.1-2
19:50:44 <planetmaker> ^ sounds about right
19:51:03 <planetmaker> and indeed. I'd welcome an addition which allows an easy install of nmlc
19:51:10 <planetmaker> current procedure is rather painful
19:53:22 <Alberth> more immediate problem might be dropping of python2
19:53:33 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I tried before, but it got mired
19:53:42 <andythenorth> there are a few fundamental blockers :)
19:54:08 <planetmaker> how immediate is that, Alberth ?
19:54:23 <andythenorth> (1) the only solution I know of is Buildout (there are others). Buildout is... strange
19:54:32 <andythenorth> (2) there was disagreement about the purpose and aims :P
19:55:30 <planetmaker> well. I pondered about that some time ago. The conclusion I arrived at basically is: options are so many, that it probably is best to support one or two ways to properly install it. Buildout maybe. And maybe another... not sure which
19:55:58 <V453000> do I just put this like randomly anywhere, or? :D sort(<feature>, [<ID>, <ID>, <ID>...]);
19:56:20 <andythenorth> I think last conversation went something like:
19:56:28 <andythenorth> - only andythenorth wants a single simple install
19:56:43 <andythenorth> - everyone else installs system-wide using ${magic linux package managers}
19:56:50 <andythenorth> - there is a windows binary for luser
19:57:06 <planetmaker> yes, that's some time ago
19:57:08 <Alberth> lies, I don't install at all :p
19:57:30 <planetmaker> But as we want to offer people possibly an easy way to "install" also nightlies, it might be good to make that easy
19:57:36 <planetmaker> and nightlies are not in linux packages
19:59:34 <andythenorth> installs node.js and other non-python crap too
19:59:35 <alluke> imho stations should be rated via how much stuff gets moved to the vehicles
19:59:52 <alluke> if the stuff gets piled up on to the station you should get worse ratings
20:00:15 <planetmaker> setuptools probably is the other option which might be handy
20:01:37 <alluke> because carrying big loads at once is more economical
20:01:42 <kero> andythenorth : to compile FIRS, a simple "make" should be enough ?
20:01:54 <andythenorth> if you have the deps yes
20:01:56 <planetmaker> the result should be a tar file
20:02:03 <planetmaker> (and a grf file, too)
20:02:12 <planetmaker> but tar with everything for easier distribution
20:02:22 <kero> on which dependency i'm wrong ? :o
20:02:41 <frosch123> alluke: what was reverted?
20:02:48 <frosch123> committed? in eints?
20:03:35 <planetmaker> kero, can you run make _V= and paste output?
20:04:21 <planetmaker> hm :-) Not too long anymore
20:05:02 <V453000> guys how do I use the vehicle sorting? like where do I put this sort(<feature>, [<ID>, <ID>, <ID>...]);
20:05:12 <planetmaker> I do believe so, V453000
20:05:18 <kero> mmh, can it come from the fact that I have python 2 and 3, and it may be confused ?
20:05:32 <V453000> thats wtf :D but lets try
20:05:44 <V453000> and I use numeric or string IDs?
20:05:48 <planetmaker> hm, maybe, what's your default python, kero ?
20:05:49 <frosch123> at the end, after you defined the vehicle ids
20:06:40 <frosch123> aww, devzone ssh won't fix itself :(
20:07:02 <planetmaker> kero, try make PYTHON=/path/to/python2
20:07:24 <kero> I searched for a such variable but there isn't
20:07:47 <planetmaker> I hope it exists... FIRS might be a bit peculiar...
20:08:46 <V453000> frosch123: do I use item(FEAT_TRAINS, item_C4T01, 730) iem_C4T01 - OR - 730 as ID?
20:09:14 <kero> i think it's not a python version problem, because the error is the same
20:09:31 <frosch123> V453000: i guess it's the same, but i would use item_c4T01
20:09:50 <Alberth> kero: it is, likely, python 3 does print("foo")
20:10:17 * andythenorth checks that FIRS isn't broken
20:10:36 <Alberth> kero: what's the first line of nmlc?
20:11:17 <Alberth> make it #! /usr/bin/env python2
20:11:50 <andythenorth> UK joke, quite out of context :P
20:13:33 <andythenorth> virtualenv is your friend
20:14:14 <kero> planetmaker : do you think it would be dangerous to change my /usr/bin python symlink to version2 instead of 3 for a moment ? :)
20:14:14 <kero> Alberth : I did, but works still not. I think the problem doesn't come from python version
20:14:38 <planetmaker> kero, for this experiment it would
20:14:43 <andythenorth> FWIW, FIRS builds for me
20:14:48 <planetmaker> if you remember to revert it :-)
20:15:17 <kero> planetmaker : i'll have a lot of thinks to revert. Starting with uninstalling all strange dependencies :)
20:17:12 * andythenorth has 10 pythons :)
20:17:23 <V453000> you must construct additional pythons
20:17:55 <Alberth> as well as enough cages to keep all these animals
20:19:25 <andythenorth> 6 of them are caged
20:20:37 <Supercheese> Whoah, Polish apparently has different plural forms for 4 things and 5 things
20:21:48 <andythenorth> which is useful when your project include 2.4, 2.6, 2.7 and 3
20:22:23 <andythenorth> and Apple python is unstrustworthy
20:23:30 <Supercheese> And the woman said, "The python deceived me, and I ate of the Apple."
20:23:41 <frosch123> Alberth: i guess there is something wrong with make_langfile at least
20:24:07 <frosch123> hmm, even with the language info
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20:24:14 <Alberth> Supercheese: actually, the apple is deceiving probably :)
20:24:29 <Supercheese> Well, the Apple does have a bite out of it ;)
20:24:42 <Alberth> frosch123: did I make that?
20:25:42 <frosch123> Alberth: whatever you commit, it does not matter
20:25:57 <frosch123> eints gets the data from webtranslate/newgrf/language_info.py
20:26:29 <frosch123> but make_langfile uses some other struct
20:26:37 <frosch123> it's no LanguageData apparently
20:26:40 <Alberth> I thought it uses the data from the translation file
20:28:14 <Alberth> hmm, that cannot be correct; the language_info file has the plural form I changed it to. If you use that form, some strings are broken
20:28:21 <frosch123> hmm, or does that only matter for new languages?
20:28:56 <Alberth> if you make a new language, it uses the plural form of the language_info file, as it has no other source
20:29:15 <Alberth> but in principle, the newgrf author decides
20:29:32 <Alberth> although that may be a bad idea :)
20:29:37 <frosch123> where is the Language class defined?
20:29:47 <planetmaker> yeah. Languages are defined by OpenTTD rather than NewGRFs
20:29:59 <frosch123> it's a shitty term to grep for :)
20:30:57 <frosch123> <language langid="56" name="hr_HR" plural="0"> <- ok, so it is saved in the project
20:31:28 <Alberth> ok, perhaps it's not copied on an update then
20:32:41 <frosch123> anyway, upload_languagy.py does not look like it would copy #plural from the uploade data
20:32:48 <frosch123> yeah, what you said :)
20:32:53 <frosch123> it copies the skeleton
20:32:58 <frosch123> but not the meta data
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20:35:24 <alluke> my 32 tile ore train dislikes hills
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20:40:46 <Supercheese> Sounds like you need to Try More Power™
20:41:09 * andythenorth tests this FIRS fix
20:41:22 <andythenorth> what a ball ache FIRS is
20:42:16 <kero> oh, you are testing it ?
20:42:33 <andythenorth> if I don't get bored first
20:42:33 <kero> I'm still stuck on my compile error :p
20:43:13 <kero> there's something I don't understand: is it coded in nml, pnml or both ?
20:43:44 <andythenorth> the answer is worse than that
20:43:58 <kero> that's what I was fearing
20:44:15 <andythenorth> python -> pnml -> nml
20:45:32 <Supercheese> Then doesn't it go to nfo before going to grf?
20:45:33 <kero> must have been nice to code :)
20:45:41 <Supercheese> python -> pnml -> nml -> nfo -> grf?
20:47:00 <andythenorth> was faster for a bit
20:47:06 <andythenorth> but nml was improved
20:52:06 <kero> root@kdesktop /usr/bin # ln -s python2 python
20:52:33 <kero> at least, starts working
20:53:29 <andythenorth> kero: >= seems to work for production change
20:53:54 <andythenorth> need to test some more
20:54:03 <kero> I'm gonna testing right now.
20:54:10 <Alberth> probably a change in the order of 2 bits or so :)
20:55:45 * andythenorth got a birthday cake in Yate
20:55:51 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
20:56:20 <andythenorth> kero: working for farms
20:56:25 <kero> Well. Thanks to all which helped
20:56:29 <andythenorth> code is same for other industries -should work
20:58:08 <andythenorth> my hg is sulking :P
20:58:22 <kero> you change it directly on the rep ?
20:58:49 <andythenorth> I changed it in my repo and am trying to push it
20:59:07 <kero> well finally I succeded compiling so I'll already try it
20:59:18 <kero> if I find problems, i'll inform you :)
21:02:05 <kero> by the way, is FIRS supposed better playable changing station rating ?
21:03:00 <kero> (by "better", I mean that it would be nearly unplayable without)
21:03:42 <Supercheese> I believe it is better than "Grim and mean"
21:03:52 <Supercheese> which is a pretty accurate description of default OTTD rating scheme
21:04:09 <kero> I'm mean, I don't change the rating for myself, at least for the moment, but it's not that easy
21:04:09 <Alberth> it makes it simpler in the sense that you can leave a station empty for a while
21:04:56 <Supercheese> As alluke has found out, even with trains constantly loading, often your rating cannot go over 68-ish percent with default algorithm
21:05:09 <andythenorth> FIRS ignores that :)
21:05:11 <andythenorth> I find it boring
21:05:11 <kero> actually, the change is quite big. Even when you always have a train in a station, the rating is greater
21:05:21 <andythenorth> it adjusts some delay period
21:05:28 <andythenorth> can't remember what
21:05:50 <andythenorth> I like small number of trains per station, not 20 waiting :P
21:05:50 <Alberth> you don't need to, it's in the source :)
21:06:00 <Supercheese> Let cool for 4-5 mins before serving ;)
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21:18:51 <alluke> ecs should ignore it too
21:19:09 <alluke> actually, it could be removed from the trunk too
21:21:23 <kero> must not be so difficult to change that
21:23:47 <andythenorth> someone needs to fix my offsets :P
21:23:50 <andythenorth> they are very wrogn
21:25:00 <kero> it's about sprites ? I don't understand anything about graphics
21:28:13 <kero> mmh does the station rating change is activ also for pax/mails ?
21:28:48 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: do your CETS offsets deal with crazy turning angles? I wouldn't be able to copy them
21:29:27 <Eddi|zuHause> just use the "normal" view
21:29:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and the "gui" view
21:30:10 <Eddi|zuHause> and the slices for tunnel stuff, but if you only use 10lu you might even live without that
21:30:41 <andythenorth> are you really doing hill sprites too? :o
21:33:08 * andythenorth was in the CETS repo
21:59:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure i said "it would be easily extendible, but i won't do it"
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