IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-10-20
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06:34:39 <Supercheese> Uh oh, going over the English strings when translating I've found yet another case of non-unified capitalization...
06:35:58 <Supercheese> too sleepy now, I'll report later
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08:02:17 <scshunt> planetmaker: are you finnish?
08:03:01 <Rubidium> if he were, he'd omit the n
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08:05:10 <planetmaker> btw, I just saw last evening, that OpenTTD has a seven page article in the current German linux magazine
08:06:30 <planetmaker> moin andythenorth
08:09:35 <Rubidium> what's "current"? The November one?
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08:09:53 <Rubidium> or am I looking at the wrong Linux-Magazin(.de)
08:13:19 <planetmaker> I just try to find it online, too. it was 11/2013. Maybe the magazine had a slightly different name :-)
08:13:29 <planetmaker> saw it at a friend's house
08:13:37 <Rubidium> linux-magazine.com has one though
08:17:45 <Rubidium> damn... that's quite an article
08:20:40 <Rubidium> so... more notability for wikipedia
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08:26:10 <planetmaker> in any case, it's a nice review article, I think. The choice of used NewGRFs is interesting, though :-)
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08:26:29 <Rubidium> and there are some errors
08:26:44 <Rubidium> Micropolis GPLv3, Simutrans GPL, OpenTTD frei
08:26:54 <planetmaker> yeah, I wonder about their distinction
08:26:59 <planetmaker> probably mixed-up
08:31:28 <planetmaker> hm, should we start our own link page in our wiki, Rubidium ?
08:31:37 <planetmaker> like 'OpenTTD in the press'?
08:32:40 <Rubidium> though the notability thing was more because they once threatend to remove openttd, so I cited everything that they would think of as being a reliable third party source (even though some sources are just plain incorrect)
08:32:53 <Rubidium> (remove it from wikipedia)
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08:45:00 <planetmaker> yeah, I recall. wikipedia admins sometimes have a strange sense of 'notable'
08:48:16 <TinoDidriksen> It is (or was) official Wikipedia policy to require dead tree media to have mentioned something for it to be notable.
08:48:49 <planetmaker> that alone is not sufficient how I experienced a few times. Then I gave up to edit wikipedia
08:53:07 <Rubidium> but openttd is mentioned in dead tree stuff
08:53:30 <Rubidium> namely the proceedings of some papers about an AI ;)
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08:53:41 <planetmaker> even several thesiss
08:54:10 <planetmaker> well. One thesis. Several thesises?
08:54:39 <Rubidium> though that's American
08:55:54 <Rubidium> my dead tree oxford dictionary says the same
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09:12:11 <peter1138> Theses sounds like faeces, hurr
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10:58:57 <frosch123> "dead tree" is an interesting term
11:00:50 <Rubidium> frosch123: thinking about biomass electricity?
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11:21:29 <frosch123> hyro is so obsessed with back seat moderation. when you check topics from 2012 and older, he is moderating everywhere, despite of not being a moderator :p
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11:49:23 <gynter> If I checkout revision 25632 why can't I play in 1.3.2 servers?
11:49:46 <LordAro> because 25632 != 1.3.2
11:49:54 <gynter> (svn r25632) -Release: 1.3.2
11:50:24 <LordAro> you need to build the branch, rather than trunk
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13:22:16 * andythenorth just found a sensible way to cut 50 classes / subclasses down to 7
13:22:34 <andythenorth> as getting stinky
13:22:42 <V453000> I found the way to cut all day classes down to beer years ago
13:23:02 <V453000> took serious effort finding out
13:23:43 <andythenorth> Alberth: simple dict vs. a little property holding class....what's a good reason for latter? o_O
13:23:50 <andythenorth> currently I am favouring dict
13:23:59 <Alberth> V453000: and lots of continuous training :)
13:25:29 <Alberth> andythenorth: documenting meaning of data, deriving new values by combining values, perhaps easier syntax(?)
13:28:52 <andythenorth> @property decorator
13:29:31 <andythenorth> trying to have less architecture :)
13:35:40 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25887 trunk/src/core/pool_type.hpp (2013-10-20 13:35:35 UTC)
13:35:41 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Ignore NULL pointers in delete operator of PoolItem.
13:45:56 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25888 /trunk (5 files in 2 dirs) (2013-10-20 13:45:50 UTC)
13:45:57 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Add a smallstack type.
13:46:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25889 trunk/src/core/smallstack_type.hpp (2013-10-20 13:46:14 UTC)
13:46:21 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Add forgotten file.
13:47:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25890 /trunk/src (station.cpp station_type.h) (2013-10-20 13:47:11 UTC)
13:47:18 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: define a smallstack for station IDs
13:48:04 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25891 /trunk/src (7 files) (2013-10-20 13:47:58 UTC)
13:48:05 <DorpsGek> -Feature: Use smallstack to allow for multiple next hops when loading and unloading.
14:01:16 <NGC3982> What do you people think is the best way for me, if i want to add -everything- in the online content to my Ubuntu server?
14:04:56 <peter1138> Definitely not using the in-game content downloader. That would be *far* too easy.
14:05:09 <Xaroth|Work> why the hell do you want -all- the content?
14:06:19 <NGC3982> Well, "everything" was a stretch. All the NewGRF's would be nice.
14:06:21 <peter1138> Xaroth|Work, cos then you can set up a game with your client, upload it to the server, and now worry about having the GRFs local.
14:06:42 <Xaroth|Work> waste of hdd space tbqfh
14:06:43 <peter1138> NGC3982, seriously, fire up the daemon, and type "content" on the server.;
14:07:08 <Xaroth|Work> NGC3982: you know he's trolling you, right?
14:07:27 <NGC3982> Xaroth|Work: No, i did not. It sounded perfectly logical. :(
14:07:42 <peter1138> [2013-10-20 15:06:48] - Query, select and download content. Usage: 'content update|upgrade|select [all|id]|unselect [all|id]|state|download'
14:07:48 <NGC3982> I'm being trolled about being trolled.
14:08:01 <peter1138> There actually is a magic "all" there...
14:09:47 <NGC3982> I'll look into it. Thank you.
14:10:43 <peter1138> Xaroth|Work, as if I would :p
14:14:46 <andythenorth> Alberth: passing config objects in parameters ftw :)
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14:27:42 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25892 /trunk/src (station_base.h station_cmd.cpp) (2013-10-20 14:27:36 UTC)
14:27:43 <DorpsGek> -Fix: off-by-one error in GetVia prevented certain flows from getting picked
14:31:21 <NGC3982> How big is the complete online-content?
14:31:46 * NGC3982 downloads everything.
14:33:09 <FLHerne> NGC3982: Don't do that :P
14:33:42 <Xaroth|Work> because it's stupid
14:33:43 <FLHerne> If nothing else, it's no good for BaNaNaS hosting
14:34:18 <Xaroth|Work> hosting of bananas is gifted mostly
14:34:24 <FLHerne> And every time you want to use a file in your game you'll have to look through a list of hundreds of things you never cared about
14:35:08 <FLHerne> You can't use more than 64 NewGRFs, 15 (?) AIs, one heightmap or scenario and one gamescript at the same time anyway
14:36:22 <V453000> seriously if your server doesnt have everything it can be huge pain in the ass to add those newGRFs when loading game
14:36:40 <V453000> I even think it would be nice to have the option to download older versions of newGRFs to server
14:36:43 <NGC3982> Well, if it hurtz BaNaNaS, ill stay out of it. Though, the reason for downloading everything is so that i don't have to bother with downloading NewGRF's to the server, each time i export a new save game to my server.
14:36:59 <V453000> how should downloading hurt bananas if it is made for it ...
14:37:35 <NGC3982> I guess i could rsync the local NewGRF catalogue with the server one..
14:37:44 <Alberth> NGC3982: that's a false assumption, things get updated
14:37:48 <NGC3982> Or simply have a click fest.
14:37:56 <NGC3982> Alberth: Yes, and that's also an issue.
14:38:08 <NGC3982> This feels like more work than fruit.
14:38:13 <FLHerne> Perhaps something that extracted the MD5sums from a savegame and compared against the grf folder would be handy
14:38:28 <Alberth> my guess is you don't need about 80% of the newgrfs
14:48:13 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25893 /trunk/src/core (random_func.cpp random_func.hpp) (2013-10-20 14:48:08 UTC)
14:48:15 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Document RandomRange and change misleading parameter name 'max' in random functions.
14:50:42 <Taede> so from an admin-port app point of view, how does one download the necessary grfs to load a particular savegame?
14:51:47 <Eddi|zuHause> is there a parameter to the "load" command?
14:52:14 <Eddi|zuHause> like "load <file> --download-missing"?
14:52:32 <V453000> possible but I dont know about it (yet) :)
14:53:22 <Taede> not listed on the openttd wiki if there is
14:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> then write it :)
14:53:48 <Eddi|zuHause> ca. 10 LOC, i see your patch in an hour, ok? :p
14:54:32 <Taede> i'll just use the autopilot way for now
14:54:46 <Eddi|zuHause> how does autopilot do it?
14:55:01 <Taede> content update, select all, upgrade, download
15:06:56 <NGC3982> Not being that familiar with Linux and programs. I have installed 1.3.2 by downloading the package from the site, and installing it with dpkg. If a new version comes along, should i simply download it and re-do the procedure?
15:07:46 <Eddi|zuHause> or you find a repo for your package manager that contains the update
15:09:07 <Alberth> that package doesn't include the baseset, afaik
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15:09:46 <NGC3982> I guess i forgot an update or something, but downloading via apt-get installed 1.4.0 or something.
15:11:43 <Alberth> of what? OpenTTD 1.4 stable has not been released yet
15:12:26 <Alberth> yeah, it would be interesting to know what we will implement :p
15:15:47 <LordAro> that's approximately 7 years old
15:16:08 <LordAro> what linux distro do you have?
15:16:10 <NGC3982> Please take the "or something" as the main part of this situation.
15:16:31 <NGC3982> It's on Ubuntu 12.04.
15:17:10 <LordAro> that would be 1.1.4 then ;)
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15:17:18 <LordAro> still, 2.5 years old now
15:17:22 <Eddi|zuHause> 0.4.0 was only available for a week :p
15:17:52 <Eddi|zuHause> it was immediately replaced by 0.4.0.1
15:17:58 <NGC3982> Why isn't aptitude updated?
15:18:02 <NGC3982> Or did i missunderstand this.
15:18:22 <LordAro> only security fixes are backported
15:18:37 <LordAro> you want to upgrade to 13.10 to get (almost) latest
15:18:50 <LordAro> s/13.10/ubuntu 13.10/
15:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe with 1.4.x it meant lightles?
15:19:37 <Alberth> with ubuntu, I'd guess that's an option :)
15:20:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you're jumping to conclusions without all necessary data
15:20:43 <LordAro> wait, now i'm confused
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16:33:07 <Supercheese> Aww, there's no ship disasters in OTTD, I wanted to translate "Shipwreck" as "Naufragium"
16:33:14 <Supercheese> one of my favorite Latin words
16:33:43 <FLHerne> Supercheese: Do the mysterious subs count?
16:34:23 <Supercheese> I don't think any ship actually is destroyed though
16:35:30 * FLHerne would quite like a 'realistic disasters' setting
16:35:42 <Supercheese> __ln__: definitely
16:35:58 <Supercheese> "Add this feature to the game, for the Latin translation would be awesome"
16:36:02 <Supercheese> best reasoning ever
16:36:24 <FLHerne> So shipwrecks, mine collapses, maybe something shiny like tornadoes or fires but not the stupid UFO things
16:36:40 <Supercheese> mine subsidences are already in game
16:37:05 <frosch123> shall we replace the ufos with unicorns?
16:37:06 <Supercheese> In fact, I'm translating that string right now ;)
16:37:14 <FLHerne> Supercheese: I know that ;-)
16:37:40 <Supercheese> "Ignotus volans unicornis"
16:37:55 <__ln__> FLHerne: floods that destroy railways and roads would be quite r*********
16:38:02 <FLHerne> Supercheese: What I mean is that additional realistic disasters would be nice instead of (or inaddition to for the crazy people) the silly ones would be nice
16:38:08 <Supercheese> Floods in game too
16:38:18 <Supercheese> but of course only due to bad terraforming :P
16:38:27 <FLHerne> Supercheese: Yeah, that doesn't really count
16:38:53 <FLHerne> You have to do something ridiculously stupid to cause any real damage by flooding
16:39:58 <FLHerne> Occasional flooding from rivers would be neat, perhaps
16:40:04 <FLHerne> Don't build on floodplains :P
16:42:50 <Supercheese> Hmm, I need accusative town names...
16:43:00 <Supercheese> but I very much doubt town name grfs provide accusative forms
16:43:22 <Supercheese> well, maybe the Latin one does :P
16:43:40 <Supercheese> genitive forms would be nice too
16:46:14 <__ln__> how about just "civitam Townname", or does the name need to flex even in that case?
16:46:21 <Supercheese> I wonder if the base town names even have cases...
16:46:31 <Supercheese> Well, "Oil refinery explosion near {TOWN}!"
16:47:00 <Supercheese> I'm not sure how to construct a translation only using a nominative there
16:47:28 <Supercheese> the most direct route is obviously "... apud {TOWN.acc}!"
16:48:26 <Supercheese> other adverbs/prepositions would work too
16:49:43 <__ln__> other languages would also benefit from accusatives of townnames
16:49:59 <Supercheese> Inspecting the Greek translation, they do not use accusatives in these strings, which is interesting
16:50:20 <Supercheese> perhaps the translator just said, "well, town names don't provide cases so there's nothing I can do"...
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17:05:49 <Supercheese> Hmm, station names also need to be accusative in many instances...
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19:06:19 <andythenorth> this editor supports folding
19:07:08 <Rubidium> how often can it fold the same piece?
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19:11:02 <andythenorth> passing a string because the thing I want to refer to doesn't exist yet :P
19:11:14 <andythenorth> why can't python predict the future?
19:15:17 <Xaroth|Work> you can import antigravity though
19:19:22 <andythenorth> I hope I haven't left too many default values behind in get()
19:19:32 <andythenorth> otherwise my compile is failing silently :P
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19:33:35 <frosch123> does anyone use code folding?
19:33:48 <frosch123> i have seen many editors which support it, but never anyone using it
19:34:07 <Xaroth|Work> very occasionally
19:38:03 <andythenorth> I am using it today
19:38:14 <andythenorth> it's probably a sign of too much stuff in one file :P
19:39:18 <frosch123> do you use it more often than conditional orders in ottd?
19:40:33 <Japa> Code folding is when you smaller-ize parts of the code, right?
19:40:41 <Japa> I use that... um... not often
19:40:51 <frosch123> yes, collapsing if-else and such
19:45:33 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25894 trunk/src/order_gui.cpp (2013-10-20 19:45:27 UTC)
19:45:34 <DorpsGek> -Change: Unify behaviour when clicking on different items in the goto dropdown list when giving orders (adf88)
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21:42:50 <Supercheese> I gathered from your username :P
21:42:54 <__ln__> who would have guessed, indeed
21:43:01 <help_please> that was the point
21:43:13 <Supercheese> explain your problem
21:43:41 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Don't ask to ask, just ask
21:43:45 <help_please> when i start an openttd server it says could not start server
21:44:12 <LordAro> i doubt that's all it says...
21:44:15 <help_please> how do i fix this?
21:44:31 <help_please> thats all i get in a red error box message
21:44:58 <Supercheese> I know very very little about multiplayer stuff, sorry
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21:45:25 <help_please> does anyone else know about multiplayer stuff?
21:46:51 <LordAro> the string "could not start server" does not appear anywhere in the source code
21:47:03 <LordAro> but, are you using a different language (other than english) ?
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21:50:03 <LordAro> you need a proper nickname ;)
21:50:15 <LordAro> (i'm assuming you are "help_please")
21:50:47 <LordAro> you have exactly the same hostname
21:50:59 <LordAro> that could be the web client however
21:51:02 <Openttd> i use the same computer as him
21:52:25 <planetmaker> quite a presumptious username, no?
21:52:31 <LordAro> either way, "Openttd" is a ...
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21:52:42 <LordAro> ok, i don't believe you anymore
21:54:05 <help_please> help me about my previous question please
21:54:18 <LordAro> "<LordAro> the string "could not start server" does not appear anywhere in the source code
21:54:18 <LordAro> <LordAro> but, are you using a different language (other than english) ?"
21:54:37 <LordAro> we need the _exact_ message to be able to help you
21:55:01 <planetmaker> do you try to start a dedicated or non-dedicated server?
21:55:14 <help_please> i use "english US"
21:55:40 <LordAro> again, the string "could not start server" does not appear, anywhere
21:56:12 <help_please> message "Could not start the server" red error message
21:56:24 <help_please> just opened game and checked
21:56:40 <LordAro> "grep -rni 'could not start server' src" results in no results
21:57:01 <LordAro> again, the string "could not start server" does not appear, anywhere
21:57:03 <Supercheese> "could not start the server", perhaps
21:57:24 <help_please> this problem has gone on all day
21:57:42 <help_please> and i have tried to fix it for hours
21:58:35 <help_please> also after the error message it uses same settings for world gen and leads me singleplayer
21:58:41 <planetmaker> the server will - without the config file telling it otherwise - try to bind to your IP and the default port
21:58:52 <planetmaker> if that is not available, it will fail with the mentioned message
21:59:09 <LordAro> basically, your network connection is screwed up slightly
21:59:27 <help_please> i have seen that file
21:59:28 <planetmaker> chapter 4.2 in the readme tells you where to find it. Depends on OS
21:59:57 <LordAro> if you don't know, it'll probably be in My Documents/OpenTTD
22:00:03 <planetmaker> there are also the network settings. Maybe you also configured a IP address there which you don't own
22:00:09 <planetmaker> (if you edited it)
22:00:31 <planetmaker> or you are not allowed to open ports
22:00:32 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
22:00:50 <help_please> i opened command prompt and typed "ipconfig/all" and entered that Ipv6 ip
22:01:08 <help_please> it uses port 3979
22:02:03 <help_please> ive been using port 3979
22:03:28 <help_please> ive been using port 3979 and my ipv6 ip adress e.g. 192.168.1.xx
22:04:11 <planetmaker> 192.168.1.xx is not IPv6
22:05:13 <LordAro> 192.168.1.xxx is a local ip address too, not an external one
22:05:32 <planetmaker> that, too. But you can create a (local) server then
22:05:43 <help_please> im trying to play with family in same network since im a kid
22:06:21 <help_please> im trying for local play
22:06:43 <help_please> yet every time i try to start server i get that error message
22:06:44 <planetmaker> I would bet that some personal firewall disallows you to start a server by disallowing it to bind to the port
22:06:57 <help_please> it worked before though
22:07:14 <planetmaker> then... what did you change? Undo that change to your system config :-)
22:07:32 <help_please> i never changed the config file
22:08:07 <planetmaker> even though it may feel like, it's not openttd which fails, it's your OS failing to provide the required ressources.
22:09:42 <help_please> so do i change firewall settings?
22:09:44 <LordAro> help_please: suggestion: delete openttd.cfg file, restart computer
22:10:32 <planetmaker> yes, of course you have to configure your firewall to allow starting a server
22:10:48 <help_please> my openttd.cfg file has stuff in it though LordAro
22:11:07 <planetmaker> then you can copy it back later
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22:13:16 <help_please> now to copy the data back
22:13:23 <LordAro> i'm impressed with your restart time
22:13:38 <help_please> i didnt have to restart my computer
22:14:01 <help_please> i had to rename openttd.cfg file and open openttd
22:14:51 <help_please> bye and thank you again
22:15:45 <planetmaker> strange how resetting to defaults fixes the issue, if the defaults were never changed :-)
22:15:55 <LordAro> windows is strange ;)
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