IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-10-10
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08:32:46 <planetmaker> hey :-) How's life?
08:33:09 <Taede> cold, but sunny outside
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10:38:32 <__ln__> i'm operating within normal parametres
10:44:49 <__ln__> peter1139: you're american now?
10:44:58 <peter1139> No, it's just how parameters is spelled.
10:47:21 <bon> I still haven't found any suggestion online if you two don't mind me asking again: is there a length limit to locomotive sprites?
10:50:51 <bon> nomially roughly how far would you go before you should break it into sections?
10:52:40 <peter1139> If it's longer than 8 in-game units, then it needs to be split.
10:53:02 <peter1139> Which is the regular vehicle length.
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10:54:54 <bon> 8...mm ok I understand now thanks
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11:08:34 <bon> is there an overview of the variable runcosts or I'll just have to check different individual newgrf pages to figure out how it works?
11:09:44 <juzza1> or do you mean how it actually works ingame
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13:08:36 <planetmaker> could be either or. Whatever feels more appropriate
13:12:20 <planetmaker> probably with a tendency towards "-Doc: Descriptions for some station GUI functions was insufficient"
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13:41:09 <V453000> something like 10 is still feasible bon :)
13:42:30 <bon> v453000 heh. I was just wondering about how to draw a few particular locomotives I needed that had long chassis
13:43:02 <bon> one similar example is the PRR GG1 .. I'm thinking that thing probably would had been split in the middle in a grf
13:44:34 <Eddi|zuHause> if you worry about longer sprites :)
13:47:11 <Eddi|zuHause> (WARNING: lots of magic!)
13:47:27 <bon> whats the extra angles for tho?
13:47:31 <Eddi|zuHause> that is the length of 9
13:51:17 <bon> hmm so its going farther than overhanging the curve then abruptly turn 45 degree with nothing inbetween?
13:52:21 <V453000> yeah but who would like to draw that many sprites :)
13:53:15 <V453000> what is that, 24 views instead of 8?
13:53:20 <V453000> that is insane amount of sprite work
13:53:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it's "just" triple :)
13:53:35 <V453000> would probably make sense to do it with rendered images though
13:54:04 <V453000> nuts already has barely bearable amount of sprites with just 8 views per vehicle, I cant imagine doing it x3
13:55:08 <bon> heh I'm with you v453000 :)
13:55:34 <V453000> anyway, for the longer sprites, just try things out and see what glitches (too much) for you
13:55:51 <bon> yeah I'll probably be getting to the small things first so that may take a while ^_^
13:55:57 <V453000> obviously 8/8 is safest
13:56:17 <bon> at least I could think of angled tunnel portals and maybe train sheds but otherwise like you said I guess
14:01:58 <Eddi|zuHause> concerning airdrag for wagons: a new vehicle property "additional_air_drag" with a range of 0..1?
14:02:30 <Eddi|zuHause> value will be summed up for all wagons and cached in the front engine
14:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that makes it possible to model streamlined high speed trains which reduce the air drag at the gaps between wagons
14:03:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and for dummy articulated parts like in CETS you just set it to 0
14:05:26 <bon> v453000 there is one other thing tho. can powered wagons accept any kind of negative values or theres a limit to this?
14:06:22 <V453000> why would you have negative power
14:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> don't use powered wagons...
14:07:52 <V453000> powered wagons alone are ok? :d
14:08:01 <V453000> the livery override is a bit wtf but well
14:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the whole thing smells of "we hack this into TTDPatch because we can't do it fully flexible (yet)"
14:10:10 <bon> v453000 heh was just wondering about reenacting steam heating n diesel slug without having to duplicate things in the buy list. but this is just a note now tho, still waiting to see what friend thinks
14:10:20 <planetmaker> what is 'fully flexible' in this context, Eddi|zuHause ? :-)
14:11:05 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: like, varaction2 that checks the front vehicle, or putting engines behind other engines
14:11:21 <bon> v453000 I meant actual slug units...not slug aka animals :->
14:11:40 <bon> thats what usa call them, I still don't know what the term would be outside north america (if there were any)
14:14:01 <bon> v453000 well it was a cheap way to get more traction at the con of much lower top speed and more
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14:16:41 <bon> don't ask me why but they call these cow-calf .. then again the calf always follows its mother! :)
14:18:09 <V453000> well the question is if you want them to be purchaseable as two (would be very wtf imo) or one engine
14:18:52 <bon> v453000 well what you would do for an usa set I imagine is to just have one single vehicle with two ids...
14:19:11 <bon> first unit bought is the default cab unit .. but a second one added to it changes to the cabless sprite
14:19:16 <V453000> has no meaning for a game
14:19:49 <bon> (then again I think pikka already did the same thing to NARS .. cue the EMD F units changing sprites depending on multi-loco consists
14:20:02 <V453000> yes something like that happens there indeed
14:20:38 <V453000> I personally think that is the best way to do it, just visually, no extra train IDs
14:20:56 <bon> mm..thanks re the sprite length thing btw. I kinda need to go out for a while now tho
14:21:06 <bon> and yeah no extra ids I agree...anyway bye till another time :p
14:23:27 <Belugas> cool... saving before compiling... saved not only the sruoce code but my nerves as well :)
14:23:42 <Belugas> since.. compiler crashed!
14:25:15 <Belugas> Delphi4 has sometimes this habit of unexpectendly just.. vanish
14:25:27 <Belugas> yeah, i know... it's DElphi and it's 4 and it's old...
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16:13:44 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, why don't we put the version string in the savegame and display it on load error?
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16:37:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not what you usually say :p
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16:47:49 <Belugas> nope, he wold say : i ha(ve)d a patch for that ;)
16:49:26 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I see no reason that can't/shouldn't be done
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19:22:55 <V453000> yeah got reported just today :)
19:23:36 <Alberth> the famous "I get two of the same bug reports shortly after each other" hits again :)
19:23:42 <V453000> [is already fixed, coming in 0.6.1]
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19:29:14 <Thurak> whats a resonable starting date if i want to have a long game
19:29:32 <Thurak> but i dont want to be in the stone age either
19:33:47 <V453000> you will need newGRFs which support "long game" obviously
19:34:43 <Thurak> ive got the hover vehicles
19:34:52 <Thurak> i think they are introduced around 2080, give or take
19:35:17 <Thurak> also some planes which i think are spread out across all timeframes, and vacuum railways
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19:45:36 <andythenorth> newgrf tech forum has some interesting threads today :)
19:45:39 * andythenorth likes interesting
19:54:16 <Supercheese> more air drag shenanigans
19:59:09 <Thurak> when do you get the first thing that has a helipad
20:00:23 <Supercheese> 1963, with no newgrfs
20:01:07 <Thurak> ah, i was a bit confused as the wiki says the first helicopter is 1957, and im at 1958 with no helipad
20:01:37 <Supercheese> Newgrfs can change that, e.g. Opengfx+ Airports has an option to enable all airports regardless of current date
20:03:10 <Thurak> think ive got that one, tho i havent touched options
20:07:05 <andythenorth> newgrfs can change airport date? o_O
20:07:39 <Supercheese> years_available [start year, last year]
20:08:02 <Supercheese> I should know, I contributed that patch to OGFX+ airports ;)
20:08:14 <andythenorth> that is interesting
20:08:19 <andythenorth> airport dates bug me
20:08:27 <Supercheese> They bugged me as well
20:08:35 <Supercheese> enough I wrote a grf to fix it
20:08:49 <andythenorth> with AV8, I want to use a much greater range of airports, and rely on the newgrf design to make planes interesting
20:08:51 <Supercheese> but then I merged it with OGFX+, to save a grf slot
20:27:49 <Thurak> setting up railways annoys me..
20:27:54 <Thurak> so many things get in the way
20:28:12 <frosch123> like other rails? :p
20:28:35 <Thurak> and i need to lay down 2 tracks
20:46:26 <Thurak> are Av8 airships any good to use?
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21:17:52 <andythenorth> don't understand my own code :)
21:18:56 <Supercheese> Thurak: Av8 airships are great
21:20:50 <Thurak> which ones are great? zeppelin is making me a loss atm
21:22:04 <andythenorth> why isn't this recursing?
21:22:13 <andythenorth> I should have an unpleasant loop running
21:22:26 <andythenorth> my code should be buggy but isn't :P
21:22:32 <andythenorth> this is disturbing
21:23:23 <Thurak> should be buggy but isnt?
21:23:27 <Thurak> thats a rare thing to hear
21:23:49 <Supercheese> Thurak: planespeed modifier set to 1/1?
21:23:56 <Supercheese> If it's set lower, they won't turn profits
21:24:14 <Thurak> i havent touched settings like that
21:24:43 <Supercheese> Advanced Settings -> Vehicles -> Plane speed factor
21:25:30 <Supercheese> Av8 should throw a warning if that setting is not 1/1
21:26:24 <Thurak> i dont see that option
21:26:43 <andythenorth> by analysis my code is broken, but it works empriically :P
21:26:53 <Thurak> had to set it to advanced settings at the top
21:27:09 <Supercheese> Yeah, bump that to 1/1
21:27:19 <Supercheese> then your airships will be better :)
21:27:32 <Thurak> the game says default should be 1/4...
21:27:40 <Supercheese> Av8 says it should be 1/1
21:27:41 <Thurak> is Av8 balanced around 1/1 then?
21:27:47 <andythenorth> by analysis, andythenorth is not broken, but is empirically
21:28:00 <Thurak> right, time to not suck then
21:28:16 <Supercheese> IIRC, airships have a more favorable cargo aging factor
21:28:36 <Supercheese> to account for the luxurious travel compared to other early aircraft
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21:32:28 <Supercheese> Too bad there are no more rigid airships
21:32:41 <Supercheese> would be better than cruise shis
21:33:05 <Supercheese> like the Hindenburg, Graf Zeppelin, et al.
21:35:10 <Supercheese> There's one company building a new airship, I hope it'll be commercially successful
21:35:20 <Thurak> whats good about rigid
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21:35:44 <Supercheese> they can be larger, have more interior passenger space
21:38:04 <Thurak> when would it be a good idea to use a train
21:38:10 <Thurak> instead of trucks or planes
21:39:01 <Supercheese> I like how the Aeros company promises a 500 ton payload, although I have my doubts about that
21:40:46 <Thurak> surely carrying a 500 ton payload into air is easy, doing it at a realistic price is the problem
21:40:58 <Supercheese> and with a reasonable operating range
21:41:12 <Supercheese> I have faith in their engineers though
21:41:39 <Thurak> well operating range isnt a problem, just adds yet more to the price :P
21:42:09 <Thurak> hmm.. making a profit, but its very tiny
21:42:20 <Thurak> £1200 per trip, and its costing me something like £1000 per trip
21:42:25 <Supercheese> Yeah, everything does boil down to economy. Unfortunately, they have large government funding, and, well, our government isn't doing so well at the moment
21:42:35 <Supercheese> (to put it mildly)
21:43:03 <Thurak> another way of putting it, is that im richer than quite a few contries, because i have £10 on my desk
21:43:53 <Supercheese> make sure you have full loads in your airships
21:44:05 <Supercheese> they won't turn a profit half-empty, or even 3/4
21:44:15 <Supercheese> longer ranges are also helpful
21:44:16 <Thurak> full load any cargo set on both ends
21:44:30 <Supercheese> short hops are problematic, because they spend a terribly long time circling before landing
21:44:30 <Thurak> its going... about 100 tiles
21:44:40 <Supercheese> very poor landing pattern
21:45:12 <Supercheese> airships have very long range, use that to your advantage :)
21:46:01 <Thurak> thats better, £9200 gained from a trip
21:46:22 <Thurak> would be nice if there was a tool to measure distance
21:46:26 <Thurak> or if there is i dont know what it is
21:47:04 <Supercheese> I think under the ? menu
21:47:08 <Supercheese> there should be measurement tool
21:47:52 <Thurak> the airships are very expensive to buy
21:48:27 <Supercheese> indeed, they are not cheap
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21:49:15 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: Commit by Darkvater :: r6758 /trunk (8 files in 2 dirs) (2006-10-12 15:13:40 UTC)
21:49:16 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: -Feature: Add a measurement tool that will show dimensions and height
21:49:17 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: differences of various draggable tools (inspiration, concept and double
21:49:18 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: checking by MeusH).
21:49:27 <Supercheese> Well, where is it
21:49:53 <Supercheese> I know rail/road construction has it
21:50:15 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Darkvater was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 25 weeks, 4 days, 10 hours, 12 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <Darkvater> good ol' days :)
21:51:03 <Supercheese> Aww, his last post should have been "Nooooooo"
22:27:30 <Supercheese> pardon the long link
22:27:37 <Thurak> ... no airships available anymore and now my airports useless
22:28:11 <Supercheese> airships should expire until after the 1950s
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