IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-10-03
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06:46:54 <V453000> seen the ymage I pasted? :)
06:47:16 <planetmaker> yeah, just found it in backlog. Thanks a lot :-)
06:47:29 <planetmaker> ich's exactly what I was hoping for
06:49:45 <V453000> though they are only flatbed
06:50:32 <V453000> hoppers could be easy to get from the heaps on wagons, but tankers would be quite tough :) got no barrels or such, esp not barrels with varying colours
06:50:34 <planetmaker> yeah. But other cargos hardly show up :-)
06:50:55 <V453000> mostly, no, in nuts, always
06:51:02 <V453000> cargoes not showing up is boring :(
06:51:28 <planetmaker> but there it then needs variations in wagons somehow
06:53:01 <planetmaker> yeah, true. Hoppers, too
06:55:47 <V453000> the only problem with those 3 could be that the hoppers probably are smaller as it is only a small heap
06:56:32 <V453000> so perhaps it would make more sense to use flatbed cargoes from some other flatbed I have in the repo :)
06:56:35 <planetmaker> well, yeah. But as explained yesterday, I only want one cargo icon to toy with it for some GUI buttons... so vehicle size is not of interest for me here :-)
06:57:03 <planetmaker> well. or two or three
06:57:17 <V453000> I got a couple more than that :D should be ok
06:57:22 <planetmaker> will need to see how it goes :-)
06:57:39 <V453000> also we found a funny bug :D
06:57:59 <V453000> if basecosts track purchase is at 0, rail conversion fails due to having no tracks to replace :D
06:58:09 <V453000> I dont think it happens always, but definitely does with purr XD
06:58:41 <planetmaker> you mean if building tracks is something which costs no money?
06:59:27 <V453000> frog sez that the convert tool checks for total price, if 0, then it throws no track to replace error :D
06:59:48 <planetmaker> that's my guess, too
07:01:28 <V453000> will try to reproduce and eventually report in the evening :D
07:04:03 <V453000> also, purr will get friends :P
07:04:21 <planetmaker> lol. What will be meow?
07:04:33 <V453000> special train class friendly with purr
07:05:16 <V453000> trains which change stats based on colour of purr, something like red +speed, blue +power, yellow +TE, green +bit of each
07:05:27 <V453000> basically adds a whole new dimension of thinking to building
07:05:49 <planetmaker> will that be in NUTS or separate?
07:06:16 <V453000> the effect will just not apply when purr isnt loaded
07:06:18 <planetmaker> ah, I thought separate as you said 'purr will get friends' :-)
07:06:53 <planetmaker> and was about to suggest to put it into NUTS :-)
07:07:12 <V453000> I was considering to even move purr to nuts
07:07:51 <V453000> most people load both things anyway
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07:09:31 <planetmaker> thinking of it this way it actually *might* even make sense to meow separately. But well.
07:10:15 <planetmaker> As long as NUTS keeps its usefulness w/o PURR it doesn't matter, I guess :-)
07:11:15 <V453000> I dislike having to load many newGRFs
07:11:34 <V453000> so 1 for vehicles and 1 for tracks sounds best to me
07:12:14 <V453000> twould soon be nuts, purr, meow, mooo, duck, farm, asdf, YAWTF, mine, chipnuts, ...
07:12:34 <planetmaker> I like one for each 'concept'/'idea'/'feature' (each of those words can be mis-understood and is up to interpretation, so...)
07:12:35 <V453000> the list would get long :P
07:12:50 <V453000> yeah well problem is when different features interact :P
07:13:25 <planetmaker> it's not a black&white thing. But that's why you can check for other NewGRFs :-)
07:13:27 <V453000> though e.g. canadian stations influencing snow line is total wtf
07:16:16 <planetmaker> That's about the point: It need remain intuitive what a NewGRF will give you. And not influence / add stuff which is unexpected
07:16:56 <V453000> -> every newGRF should add slugs
07:17:05 <planetmaker> And thinking of people liking different things, it's good to split big things so that people with different ideas possibly could cherry-pick the modules they like. But the modules need remain reasonably in size. Or it's hell
07:17:28 <planetmaker> we don't want to add each vehicle, tree and landscape tile separately, either :-)
07:18:39 <V453000> tbh splitting big things should be done through parameters
07:18:51 <planetmaker> Well... the idea to separate that is not bad. But I guess with industries it's quite hard. And its requirement to make some things in certain order is not always helpful
07:19:00 <planetmaker> nah, really depends
07:19:01 <V453000> parameters are extra effort for setting up, but the default is done by 1 click of adding the newgrf
07:19:58 <planetmaker> with industries I'd do it with parameters. rails + trains I'd always do separately in NewGRFs. Also it makes e.g. no sense to combine HEQS with another vehicle grf. It's just a separate idea
07:21:09 <V453000> well of course, separate that much, yeah
07:21:31 <V453000> was talking more like about e.g. if each train class of nuts had its own newgrf, or idk, cargo/pax trains had one
07:21:39 <V453000> like newGRFs which fit together
07:22:52 <planetmaker> no, that'd be nUtS of course ;-)
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10:47:02 <__ln__> technically yes, if you are in denial of the daylight saving time.
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13:32:55 <Malinux-> is there a way to get a higher rating than 67% with oil tankers?
13:33:26 <frosch123> buy smaller faster tankers
13:44:45 <Malinux-> I can't get faster tanker than the one with max speed of 40Km/h
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13:49:06 <Xaroth|Work> always have a tanker loading?
13:51:28 <V453000> use proper vehicles (trains)? :)
13:53:10 <frosch123> hmm, some yogscast member started a ottd let's play series
13:53:38 <frosch123> increasing downloadrate since 2013-09-20
13:54:33 <Malinux-> Xaroth|Work: I have several tankers waiting ;)
13:55:10 <Malinux-> V453000: Don't think train is useful in the ocean
13:55:33 <Xaroth|Work> depends on how much money you have to spend tbqfh
13:56:56 <V453000> looks useful enough to me
13:58:27 <Malinux-> Xaroth|Work: fair enough, but it looks ugly with a trainline out to a oil rig
13:59:09 <V453000> and a good reason to use oil wells instead
14:00:28 <Belugas> canada (i'd say Quebec but whatever...) salutes yu back sir frosch123 :)
14:01:23 <Belugas> well... don't formalize yurself, it's just an internal matter ;)
14:01:36 <frosch123> someone compared the voting results from east and west germany, noting the difference after 23 years of reunification
14:01:51 <frosch123> someone else mentioned the difference of canadian vorting results compared to quebec, after 150 years :p
14:02:41 <frosch123> (relativating the relevance of 23 years :p)
14:03:00 <Malinux-> Xaroth|Work: Anyhow. Your answeer dosen't answeer my question :) sure it's possible to build a train line out to a oil-rig.
14:05:25 <Malinux-> that's more of a work around
14:18:42 <peter1139> answeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer
14:19:53 <Malinux-> peter1139: I don't think you can demand an answer like that :)
14:21:04 <frosch123> depends on the dose
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14:28:04 <Pinkbeast> frosch123: Or England and Scotland, 350-odd years after King James I and VI
14:45:25 <Belugas> frosch123, the more years passing, obviously, the less differences in the voting. The separatist feeling is shrinking since peple start to realize there is nothing to gain, apart a national pride that does not bring any food to the table. All in all, the only ones who would gain anything are the politicians, and they are not lasting 23 years ;)
14:47:50 <Belugas> and thanks to today's access t inernet, i can correct all that i did wrong at the time hehehe
14:49:34 <frosch123> hmm? is there more bandwith for canada since us powered off?
15:36:09 <peter1139> Hmm, quite a few 7:3 monitors around now...
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15:47:51 <Belugas> frosch123: i wrote the last part on the wrong channel :( sorry
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16:08:46 <peter1139> That CyberClean stuff...
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16:47:31 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25809 trunk/src/script/api/script_event_types.cpp (2013-10-03 16:47:24 UTC)
16:47:32 <DorpsGek> -Fix: [Script] Decoding JSON data with an empty array from Admin port failed
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17:45:29 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25810 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-10-03 17:45:20 UTC)
17:45:30 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:31 <DorpsGek> czech - 2 changes by retro
17:45:32 <DorpsGek> korean - 5 changes by telk5093
17:45:33 <DorpsGek> portuguese - 106 changes by vesgo
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18:20:53 <V453000> in what form does the website URL for bananas needs to be?
18:22:36 <Supercheese> Isn't that the website embedded in the newgrf, not Bananas?
18:22:58 <Supercheese> name : string(STR_GRF_NAME);
18:22:59 <Rubidium> V453000: ^ ought to give you clues why it is broken there
18:23:00 <Supercheese> desc : string(STR_GRF_DESCRIPTION);
18:23:01 <Supercheese> url : string(STR_GRF_WEBSITE);
18:23:51 <Supercheese> just like I copy/pasted
18:28:43 <Zuu> Supercheese: The URL is both given in the bananas entry and in the content itself.
18:29:11 <Supercheese> Zuu: yes, but the Visit Website button in the linked image is the embedded-in-grf version
18:29:30 <Zuu> The URL given in the bananas entry is used for the download content dialog. The URL in the content itself is used when you work with actual downloaded content.
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20:45:00 <__ln__> who is in charge of the configure script?
20:48:45 <__ln__> i would like to ask nobody what this is supposed to mean in --help: "--with-liblzma[=liblzma.a] enables liblzma support"
20:49:22 <frosch123> i have been wondering about that for the past 5 years
20:49:30 <frosch123> never figured it out, but it usually works anyway
20:50:45 * Zuu just released yet another GS that for the change doesn't do anything on its own but allows Admin Port clients to remote control the GS
20:50:46 <__ln__> as far as i can see, it is not expecting a path to liblzma.a as the =parameter... rather it is expecting some kind of an executable that returns the proper paths given proper arguments.
20:51:13 <frosch123> yes, some script which is compatible to pkg-config
20:51:22 <frosch123> but prints more useful stuff than pgk-config usually does
20:51:34 <frosch123> sometimes pkg-config just reports non-sense
20:52:00 <__ln__> so why the "[=liblzma.a]"? i demand an answer from nobody!
20:52:25 <scshunt> __ln__: it means you can tell it that the library has a different name
20:52:53 <__ln__> scshunt: no it doesn't
20:53:18 <frosch123> __ln__: it does mean that, it's just lieing
20:54:18 <__ln__> i don't like configure scripts that are lying
20:56:27 <Alberth> it suggests a perhaps usable name?
20:58:10 * andythenorth watches the Gromit auction
20:59:21 <andythenorth> Gromit Lightyear selling for about £70k
20:59:26 <__ln__> Alberth: whatever is given after the '=' the script will try to execute. static libs are not executable.
21:04:27 <glx> inside [] is the default value IIRC
21:06:02 <__ln__> well fair enough, that's what i also agree it is *supposed to mean*. however, it obviously doesn't mean that.
21:06:22 <peter1139> It's pretty pointless as it stands.
21:09:17 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: obviously you aren't supposed to type the []
21:09:35 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: [] means you can leave this part out
21:11:44 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: but i can't because OS X doesn't come with liblzma
21:12:12 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: --without-liblzma?
21:12:57 <frosch123> maybe just switch to steamos?
21:15:15 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: then i can't load some stuff like savegames. but the real point is, the help text in my opinion implies you could provide a path to liblzma.a, but that is not the case. if you enter --with-liblzma=/blabla/liblzma.a, the script will attempt to execute /blabla/liblzma.a and fail.
21:16:57 <glx> or ask the one that added it to config.lib
21:17:07 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it's the same issue with all config options
21:17:17 <frosch123> but i never had a clue what to really put there :)
21:18:07 <peter1139> Really it should be a base path to the library/includes...
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21:36:16 <DorpsGek> __ln__: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 2 days, 3 hours, 25 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> GPL should only be used on code, nothing else :)
21:37:18 <Supercheese> No GPL graphics? Odd...
21:37:32 * Supercheese doubts he was being serious, of course.
21:37:51 <TrueBrain> Graphics should NEVER be licensed under GPL
21:37:56 <TrueBrain> so no, I was rather serious
21:38:08 <Supercheese> too bad for OpenGFX then
21:38:25 <Supercheese> and numerous grfs
21:38:48 <Eddi|zuHause> but that wasn'T the actual question )
21:39:08 <frosch123> is tb licensed under gpl
21:39:20 <TrueBrain> you can patch me any dy ;)
21:39:46 <Eddi|zuHause> the question was what is this nonsense in configure supposed to mean :)
21:40:21 <frosch123> that's a useless question
21:40:30 <frosch123> you should rather ask what there should be instead
21:41:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the question is whether we want to change the behaviour or the help text
21:44:12 <__ln__> i vote for changing the behaviour, because there cannot be assumed to be a pkg-config nor a pkg-config compatible script to run for a particular library on a particular platform.
21:44:25 <frosch123> good luck with that
21:44:32 <frosch123> you need at least path to lib and path to include
21:44:37 <frosch123> sometimes also cflags
21:45:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and today's earworm sponsored by www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AWS8IcJPvE
21:46:40 <__ln__> frosch123: so both options have drawbacks.
21:47:30 <Eddi|zuHause> "--with-library=path:/blah,include:/blah,cflags:blah"?
21:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause> "--with-library=pkg-config:/blah"?
21:48:41 <__ln__> i don't see how that would be more difficult than writing a script for returning those.
21:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea, but i thought we were trying to find a solution
21:53:20 <__ln__> yes, and i was supporting your proposal and questioning frosch's doubts about it being impossible.
21:56:36 <__ln__> so does anyone actually currently give a parametre to --with-liblzma anyway? (except for myself).
21:57:23 <frosch123> and they are most likely to have a script
21:57:24 <Eddi|zuHause> we don't know, but my proposal could be made backwards compatible by checking whether there is : in it, and give a deprecated warning
21:57:26 <Zuu> Oh the custom bridge head patch is only 34977 lines long :-)
21:58:30 <Zuu> I wonder why it is that long
21:59:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: contains "new map array" with potentially huge refactorings
22:00:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: i'm fairly sure there are smaller steps in there :)
22:00:39 <Supercheese> He has a patch queue
22:00:51 <Supercheese> ehm, somewhere at least
22:01:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not like he never wrote a patch before...
22:02:07 <Zuu> Yep, I'd not be surprised if he got a patch queue somewhere.
22:03:09 <Supercheese> seems like he didn't post the queue for recent revisions
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22:58:22 <pure> Is there anything currently in the game for sharing infrastructure?
23:00:01 <Supercheese> Not in trunk, but There's a Patch for That™
23:03:22 <pure> Out of interest, can you set someone else's station as a destination?
23:03:36 <Supercheese> Probably, when using the IS patch
23:05:17 <pure> I'm tempted to start an OTTD server, but not sure if people will want to mess around with patches and stuff
23:05:20 <Supercheese> only time something like that can work is with oilfields/fishing grounds
23:05:33 <Supercheese> then, since they are not owned by anyone, any company can send vehicles there
23:06:44 <pure> I haven't played OTTD in ages >_>
23:06:57 <Supercheese> Those come from newgrfs
23:07:12 <pure> Was thinking it might just be 'cus I only play temperate.
23:07:22 <pure> Do you still need newgrf for trams?
23:07:35 <Supercheese> although if planetmaker has his way, that may change :)
23:08:21 <pure> I suppose I could build ottd and distribute the binary.
23:10:56 <Eddi|zuHause> don't bother with patches unless you have a very close circle of friends playing
23:12:15 <Eddi|zuHause> even with newgrfs, the servers that use them are more empty than others.
23:12:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i think because once people start using newgrfs they have their own special opinion on which ones are good, and then servers always use a "bad" one
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