IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-09-30
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00:53:41 <Eddi|zuHause> hm. daylength idea: instead of offering a factor, substitute "month" with "week" or "day"
00:55:49 <Eddi|zuHause> so the setting would be "1 minute ~ 1 month", "1 minute ~ 1 week", "1 minute ~ 1 day", which would roughly be a daylength factor of 4.5 and 30
00:56:14 <Eddi|zuHause> then things like "industry production last month" would say "last week" or "yesterday"
00:57:02 <Supercheese> would that be easier to implement?
00:57:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and instead of yearly statistics you get quarterly statistics or biweekly statistics
00:57:35 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe not "easier" but "cleaner"
00:57:50 <Eddi|zuHause> more strictly designed
01:00:04 <Eddi|zuHause> like instead of changing the daylength, you take 74 ticks as some sort of base unit, but instead of changing over the day, you flip between "1st may - morning", "1st may - midday", "1st may - evening" etc.
01:01:02 <Eddi|zuHause> this may or may not cause other things to more cleanly fit in
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04:51:41 <Supercheese> Oh sweet, in translating OTTD strings I've discovered a new 'hidden feature'
04:51:49 <Supercheese> I should really read the tooltips >_>
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05:03:01 <Supercheese> Admittedly it is mostly a copy from English wikipedia
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05:31:24 <scshunt> go away, whippersnapper
05:32:04 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: anybody was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 18 weeks, 5 days, 17 hours, 35 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <anybody> hello
05:32:20 <Supercheese> No, anybody is not here :)
05:38:20 <cypher_> This is serious, I need help.
05:38:30 <cypher_> I've never been awake at this hour.
05:39:00 <Supercheese> Are you asking for a cure for insomnia?
05:39:57 <Supercheese> What are you asking for?
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05:40:10 <cypher_> I don't know what people are supposed to do at this hour.
05:40:29 <Supercheese> It's 10:42 PM here, I take it you're in another timezone
05:43:42 <Supercheese> Sounds like coffee time
05:44:01 <Supercheese> s'what I'll be doing come 8 AM tomorrow
05:45:19 <cypher_> That is alright. There's a huge difference between 8AM in the morning and 8AM in the evening...
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05:54:25 <Supercheese> Sort by: Available waiting cargo --> Separare: Oneribus manentibus parabilibus
05:54:31 <Supercheese> that phrase makes me giggle
05:55:09 <Supercheese> although I wonder if it should be singular rather than plural
05:57:53 <planetmaker> :-) well, possibly yes
05:58:08 <Supercheese> I honestly don't know the difference in what the filter actually does
05:58:20 <Supercheese> Total waiting cargo vs available cargo...?
05:58:49 <planetmaker> there's a difference? Hm
05:58:58 <Supercheese> Station sort by: stuff
05:59:03 <Supercheese> no clue really :S
05:59:44 <Supercheese> maybe a cargodist-specific thing?
05:59:52 * Supercheese never uses cargodist
06:00:12 <planetmaker> hm, yes, that might indeed: total = everything. And available: cargo which might board your train
06:00:34 <planetmaker> but... it wouldn't know what would board your train
06:00:40 <Supercheese> "cargo" is tricky, it often behaves like a noncount noun
06:00:49 <Supercheese> but then sometimes gets pluralized
06:01:41 <planetmaker> indeed it does. And I can't even give you the rule(s) about that
06:02:35 <Supercheese> Since we're talking about totals of stuff, I've gone with "Total cargo" -> "Summa onerum"
06:03:31 <Supercheese> I should probably test how this looks in-game... hm
06:03:39 <Supercheese> maybe temporary override of some other lang file
06:04:51 <planetmaker> is it really 'summa' and not 'totus'?
06:05:43 <Supercheese> it's open for debate :)
06:06:02 <planetmaker> looks a bit strange to me. Summa has a tendency to judge in my ears
06:06:07 <planetmaker> judge in a positive way
06:06:23 <Supercheese> well, it's the same word as when discussing mountaintops and the like
06:06:49 <planetmaker> sounds even better :D
06:07:05 <planetmaker> Omnia Gallia est divisa ... :-)
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06:09:22 <Supercheese> Yeah, although we're in ablative, accompanying the sorting
06:09:50 <Supercheese> Sort by name --> Separare nomine
06:10:15 <Supercheese> and feel free to suggest a better verb for "sort"
06:10:33 <Supercheese> I considered "collegere"
06:10:46 <Supercheese> but that's more like "gather together"
06:20:23 <planetmaker> hm, maybe, but not sure :-)
06:20:29 <planetmaker> I'm no native speaker :-P
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11:46:06 <DorpsGek> dihedral: I have not seen suu.
11:46:10 <DorpsGek> dihedral: zuu was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 0 days, 21 hours, 7 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <Zuu> Alberth: It could just be a tar with the scenario + specialized GS from a technical point of view. But in practice it will make it easier to upload and with an own category to find.
11:48:24 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> Omnia Gallia est divisa ... :-) <-- i have a feeling asterix isn't as popular amongst americans :p
11:48:48 <dihedral> oh - i have a feeling that guys nose is displaced
11:49:13 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, it's not that I learnt that with asterix. I actually read the Bellum Gallicum in the latin original
11:49:40 <planetmaker> not that I always enjoyed it :-P
11:50:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know latin at all :)
11:50:12 <planetmaker> and I do actually would believe that supercheese read it, too
11:50:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and i rather doubt you'd learn a lot of latin from asterix :p
11:52:13 <planetmaker> but well, who knows. Maybe it was rather Ovid... Ars Amatoria
11:52:22 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, sufficient for some posing :-P
11:53:08 <planetmaker> dihedral, it's not about 'displaced noses'. But about a Latin translation of OpenTTD ;-)
11:53:21 <planetmaker> And if supercheese wants to make it, I'm all in favour of it
11:54:05 <Flygon> The Gauls spoke Latin?
11:54:18 <planetmaker> and it was just some input on how to translate "total (cargo amount)"
11:54:23 <Flygon> I forgot what language the Gauls spoke
11:54:32 <planetmaker> Flygon, some, yes. But that quote is from Julius Caesar: Bellum Gallicum
11:54:59 <planetmaker> yes... Celtic before Caesar invaded
11:56:42 <V453000> openttd in latin? lol
11:57:10 <V453000> does latin even have a word for train
11:58:27 <Flygon> Train basically means "Multiple objects coupled together"
11:58:52 <Flygon> Given how many different contexts the word 'train' is affixed to in English..
12:00:47 <planetmaker> there seems to be a word. I don't recall. But supercheese knows :-)
12:26:07 <Eddi|zuHause> latin has a similar problem like hebrew, how do you make up for several milennia of missing loanwords and language development?
12:27:18 <Eddi|zuHause> (hebrew was 'revived' as the language for modern israel)
12:28:13 <Eddi|zuHause> after the jews couldn't decide wether to use russian (eugh, coommunists!) or jiddish (eugh! german!!) as language
12:30:31 <__ln__> the global reviving of latin is going to happen through openttd.
12:30:44 <Flygon> Should have chosen Australian
12:30:55 <Flygon> We bastardized practically every other language on Earth anyway
12:31:32 <Flygon> Australian translation of OTTD will call trains "Chugga Chugs", named after our national heratage of chugging beer
12:33:06 <planetmaker> Flygon, the Australian translation of OpenTTD *does* exist...
12:33:25 <Flygon> Which state derivative? :P
12:34:16 <Flygon> I'm a bit surprised British En- oh right
12:34:31 <Flygon> I admit I'm actually a tad surprised someone translated it into Australian...
12:34:40 <Flygon> It's practically the exact same thing as British
12:34:53 <planetmaker> well, a US translation also exists
12:35:07 <Flygon> Yeah, but the US don't understand what the letter u means
12:35:14 <Flygon> Going by how much they chop it out of words :p
12:36:19 <Flygon> Do you mind if I ask a really silly question?
12:36:20 <Eddi|zuHause> we had that discussion yesterday :p
12:36:43 <Flygon> The silly question, or the US not understanding what the word "Colour" is?
12:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they do exactly know that the latin "color" does not have an u
12:37:39 <Flygon> Screw Latin, I'm Australian. Stop the Boats! Or... something :U
12:39:17 <planetmaker> hehe, you might have been using the Australian translation then without knowing it (unless your system is not set to Australian locale or you modified OpenTTD defaults) :D
12:39:51 <Flygon> I'd find out, but I can't be stuffed booting my desktop :P
12:41:33 <Flygon> Still needs a English (Vic - Bogan) translation though
12:56:20 <Xaroth|Work> does OpenTTD have a pirate translation yet? :o
12:58:21 <__ln__> Xaroth|Work: yeah, the english original is pirated from TTD.
13:02:44 <planetmaker> copyright violation on the words "train", "ship" and "plane"!
13:04:49 <roboboy> Can anyone point me to a GRF that uses the CB23 extra text feature?
13:05:29 <Eddi|zuHause> plenty of grfs do that
13:06:33 <roboboy> UKRS1 doesn't seem to and the ones I am interested in using are probably too old for the feature. Also the GRF needs to work in TTDP
13:07:18 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i certainly can't help with the latter...
13:07:39 <Eddi|zuHause> but i do think NARS did this
13:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause> stuff that says "used for passenger trains" etc.
13:08:22 <roboboy> HM US Set might do it then
13:09:45 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe Snail's french narrow gauge test set, but i have no idea whether that works in TTDP
13:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause> but CETS certainly won't work :p
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13:14:35 <roboboy> hmm, maybe I should chase OzTrans to build me a single train GRF that has a realong string for extra text as he asked for TTDP's window to be extended by a few lines
13:15:05 <roboboy> or I could download CanRail or whatever it's called
13:27:55 <Eddi|zuHause> compile with "grfcodec -e -c -p1 -g2 EP5.grf ."
13:28:22 <roboboy> I think I will try CanRail first
13:28:28 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you need to remove some vehicle IDs though, as it might use "high IDs" not possible with TTDP
13:28:44 <roboboy> Will take note of those links as well
13:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea whether it works, or how much/little is needed to make it work. these were taken out of CETS
13:29:55 <Eddi|zuHause> they contain only one single engine
13:37:00 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: what would probably be useful in there as a test case is that the string contains lots of newlines
13:37:58 <roboboy> well I don't realy want to keep working on it now as it's 11:35 PM
13:38:14 <roboboy> will look into it more tomorrow
13:39:47 <planetmaker> if you use NML 0.2.x you could as well take one of the regression test 'newgrfs' which ship with NML
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13:40:20 <planetmaker> as that builds grf v7 NewGRFs they're supposed to work with TTDPatch, but well... nobody really knows :-)
13:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, grfv8, i really forgot about that
13:40:51 <Eddi|zuHause> is there a grfcodec switch about that?
13:41:27 <planetmaker> grf version is not container version (the latter could be changed be re-encoding)
13:41:34 <planetmaker> But language translations don't happen
13:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> then you're probably hopeless with my excerpts above :)
13:42:24 <Eddi|zuHause> just implement grfv8 in ttdp :)
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13:48:09 <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 16 hours, 2 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <andythenorth> bye
13:48:11 <AndreasB> I have a question :D
13:48:20 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: #openttd.notice for commit notices
13:48:48 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask
13:49:22 <AndreasB> If you consider map as a square, with NE being point A, SE B etc. If you move oil from A to B, then to D
13:49:42 <AndreasB> Will it consider the oil to be moved from A to D, or A via B to D
13:49:49 <planetmaker> manhatten distance between A and D are relevant for payment
13:50:06 <AndreasB> even if you transfer via another station?
13:50:08 <planetmaker> it's no gain, only loss, to ship it around the world
13:50:22 <AndreasB> So basicly A to C, and B to D is most money
13:51:12 <AndreasB> The manhattan distance, is that from the first station?
13:51:23 <AndreasB> The one next to the primary industry
13:51:42 <planetmaker> first pickup to final delivery. That distance
13:51:53 <planetmaker> between station signs
13:51:59 <planetmaker> check wiki: game mechanics
13:52:29 <AndreasB> Ok, so moving cargo south to an hub station is idiotic
13:52:38 <AndreasB> since its extra distance you dont get paid for
13:53:39 <planetmaker> yes. It's similarily idotic as to eat NZ butter here in Germany
13:53:48 <planetmaker> It's done. And there are reasons which make it viable
13:55:02 <AndreasB> What I mean is, there is no reason to create the hub station as far south as you can get it
13:55:29 <AndreasB> Moving cargo south, then to bring it north.. better if you bring it a little bit north to the hub station
13:57:52 <DanMacK> A central hub is more efficient
13:58:09 <AndreasB> Smack in the middle?
13:58:18 <DanMacK> using your example, yes
13:58:36 <AndreasB> Why not let the trains run the entire length themselves
13:58:43 <DanMacK> depends on the industry length
13:58:43 <AndreasB> makes as much sense as central hub?
13:59:03 <DanMacK> just doing point A-D if it's a single cargo, yeah
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13:59:27 <AndreasB> Just create 8 rails from A to D
13:59:28 <DanMacK> if you have multiple producing industries, then a central hub makes more sense
14:00:08 <DanMacK> depends on your gameplay style I guess
14:00:29 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want to build a feeder system, the hub should be rather close but equidistant to the producing industries
14:00:56 <Eddi|zuHause> then you have short runs between producer and hub, and long runs between hub and delivery
14:01:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the long runs are more efficient because you get higher amount of cargo in shorter times
14:01:35 <AndreasB> Producer -> Hub A -> Hub C -> Factory -> Hub C -> Hub A -> City (Goods)
14:02:09 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't really need hub for secondary cargo (unless you do distribution between cities)
14:02:34 <Eddi|zuHause> so hub C is mostly useless
14:02:52 <AndreasB> Well, you dont want 20 square trains going to the factory, now do you?
14:03:21 <AndreasB> Why have hub at A, if you arent going to have it at C ?
14:04:33 <AndreasB> Theres a limit to how much you can pick up at producer, but you can deliver all cargo from 20 producers at 1 factory
14:04:48 <AndreasB> Didnt think of it like that
14:04:57 <AndreasB> That would save a lot of time.. Hmm
14:08:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you need to think about a hub C if you deliver like more than 20000 units of cargo per month :)
14:09:47 <Eddi|zuHause> because the factory cannot produce goods any faster than that, so the extra cargo will be accepted, but you get no goods out of it for further profit
14:10:26 <Eddi|zuHause> this depends on the size of the industry, so it's more for oil refineries and less for sawmills
14:10:41 <Eddi|zuHause> exact numbers are written somewhere
14:11:07 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 12*255*256
14:11:07 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 783360
14:11:12 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 522240
14:11:21 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, no that's not it
14:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause> each tile can produce 255 items during each production step, there are 8 to 9 production steps in each month, and there are 12 tiles in a factory
14:13:13 <AndreasB> and there are 12 tiles in a factory
14:13:16 <AndreasB> what does that mean?
14:13:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the factory occupies 12 tiles (3 2x2 blocks)
14:14:15 <Eddi|zuHause> the oil refinery is 4x5, so 20 tiles
14:14:36 <Eddi|zuHause> sizes can vary depending on industry layout
14:14:37 <AndreasB> but is 1 unit of oil = 1 unit of goods?
14:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause> 1.000l is one unit of oil, and it produces 1 unit of goods (reduced by your station rating, so you won't get 100% out of it)
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15:25:02 <DorpsGek> DanMacK: Bad_Brett was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 16 hours, 38 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Bad_Brett> hmm i might have accidently found the error
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15:59:13 <juzza1> Didn't he have a big newgrf in the making? hope he comes back
16:11:11 <DanMacK> I'm talking with him about borrowing and modifying some stuff to TTD style
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16:19:46 <DanMacK> I really need to get the steam done for the FTS :P
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18:50:34 <andythenorth> so Dan just told me about this...
18:50:56 <andythenorth> how do I compile the C file?
18:51:08 <andythenorth> I am helpless without a makefile :)
18:53:00 <DanMacK> it's a command line interface IIRC
18:55:07 <andythenorth> exe no worky worky on Mac
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18:55:47 <planetmaker> gcc -o file file.c
18:56:34 <Pinkbeast> On a Mac that looks like it should just compile with a straight compiler invocation.
18:59:32 <andythenorth> DanMacK: is it pcx only?
18:59:45 <andythenorth> ever tried a png?
19:03:40 <DanMacK> I think it's pcx only, not sure
19:04:09 <Ristovski> planetmaker: OpenGFX's hg repo seems to be down, can you check?
19:05:03 <Ristovski> "abort: HTTP Error 504: Gateway Time-out"
19:15:20 <Ristovski> Dayum fix yo intertubez
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19:27:36 * DanMacK slaps andythenorth around a bit with a large fishbot
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19:28:32 <andythenorth> wasn't me that did it
19:56:26 <Ristovski> andythenorth: y u do dis
19:56:45 <Ristovski> andythenorth: fix hg pls
19:56:59 <andythenorth> ok I'll get right on that
19:58:47 <Ristovski> andythenorth: what was the problem
20:00:17 <andythenorth> do you know how to fix it?
20:00:34 <Ristovski> "abort: HTTP Error 504: Gateway Time-out"
20:00:40 <Ristovski> andythenorth: no idea
20:00:48 <Ristovski> andythenorth: try restarting the service?
20:00:56 <andythenorth> what does that error mean?
20:01:29 <Ristovski> "The 504 Gateway Timeout error is an HTTP status code that means that one server did not receive a timely response from another server that it was accessing while attempting to load the web page or fill another request by the browser."
20:01:37 <Ristovski> andythenorth: my guess is hg server is bork
20:01:46 <Ristovski> and nginx just throws that error
20:02:01 * DanMacK looks around for the admins
20:02:10 <andythenorth> did we turn it off and on again?
20:02:17 <Ristovski> andythenorth: try that
20:03:27 <andythenorth> Ristovski: have you tried restarting your computer?
20:03:36 <andythenorth> or reinstalling the OS?
20:03:45 <Ristovski> I installed windows 8.1 now
20:04:29 <andythenorth> Ristovski: I have to admit I am trolling you
20:04:34 <andythenorth> I have no idea how to fix hg either
20:04:38 <andythenorth> but I can't push
20:05:00 <andythenorth> when planetmaker has time, he'll figure it out
20:05:08 <andythenorth> meanwhile, we sit tight :)
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20:07:37 <Ristovski> andythenorth: do you have enough permissions to restart hg on server?
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20:08:25 <andythenorth> I deliberately don't have ssh
20:09:35 <andythenorth> I don't trust myself
20:09:53 <andythenorth> and I would get asked to server admin
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21:31:55 <AndreasB> Oilfield doesnt go over 67% ?
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