IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-09-28
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07:38:52 * Rubidium desperately needs that day length patch, or rather a year length patch
07:40:09 <Rubidium> too bad I haven't been able to port it to real life yet :(
07:41:24 <Supercheese> If you manage that, sign me up :)
07:42:33 * Rubidium would vote for increasing the number of days in a month. That seems most benificial; more months == more monthly payments for rent and such
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09:10:46 <Malinux-> is there a tool to edit newgrfs? I use the DACH Train set 0.3.0 and want to reduce running costs as they in my opinion is too high
09:10:55 <Malinux-> there is no paramenter for running costs
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09:17:19 <AndreasB> Malinux-: Dont make enough on the trains?
09:17:34 <AndreasB> I see trains that make 2-300 000£ per run
09:20:16 <planetmaker> Malinux-, in that case, simply use a base cost newgrf which allows you to generally change costs for various things
09:20:26 <planetmaker> alternatively get the source code, modify, and re-compile
09:20:51 <planetmaker> the source code of the DACH set that is. But... for this, I'd not recommend that
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09:22:33 <Malinux-> planetmaker: I could check out base cost newgrf, but don't think I can change running cost specially for that trainset
09:22:59 <planetmaker> you can generally change running costs for trains
09:23:59 <Malinux-> planetmaker: yeah, in general ,but I don't want to change for the other trains, as their running costs is not a problem
09:24:40 <AndreasB> Malinux-: how high is it?
09:24:56 <Malinux-> If I make a train with length 20 and sbb-live-stock wagon the running cost pr. year is 3,699.900$ pr. year
09:25:23 <AndreasB> and how much does the train make?
09:25:36 <AndreasB> 20 000 000$per year?
09:25:55 <Malinux-> not sure yet, I will check it out. I have tried earlier as the wagons have high capacity and noticed it was a lot of minus
09:26:18 <AndreasB> Try not making them that long before you need it? idk :3 good luck anyways
09:26:40 <planetmaker> bad luck, if you don't want to change them generally, can't change it on the others and don't have the source. you can de-compile, modify hex codes and re-compile. But... good luck there :-) Otherwise... just live with it :D
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09:26:49 <Malinux-> one wagon has running cost of 88436$ pr. year
09:27:06 <AndreasB> But.. The question is
09:27:11 <AndreasB> How much can that one wagon make?
09:27:22 <AndreasB> If it costs 1 dollar, and makes 14
09:27:22 <Malinux-> planetmaker: yeah. I think it's impossible for me to edit hexcode as it's like doing thing as blind I guess
09:27:38 <AndreasB> if it costs 90 000 and makes 900 000
09:27:39 <Malinux-> AndreasB: I can make one such train and check out what it generates :)
09:48:08 <Malinux-> from transfer station to factory: running costs: 669000$ income 1098000$.
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09:48:52 <Malinux-> running cost for both directions combined will be about 1338000$ making total income negative
09:57:15 <Malinux-> hm.... I found the source :D
09:58:11 <Malinux-> that was one direction including income
09:58:26 <AndreasB> but considering it has to return
09:58:37 <Malinux-> yeah... that made it go to negative
09:58:45 <Malinux-> it was som delay too because of high trafic
09:58:46 <AndreasB> you dont think running costs are higher when loaded?=
09:58:55 <AndreasB> There is no such thing asz hgih traffix
09:59:01 <AndreasB> only too little tracks/stations
09:59:14 <Malinux-> well. it was trafic jam, as I have done some stupid things, but is fixed now
10:00:19 <Malinux-> In source code, I found this:
10:00:34 <Malinux-> running_cost_factor:210;
10:00:50 <Malinux-> how does those numbers work? Can I just lower the value?
10:00:56 <Malinux-> and then build from source?
10:01:53 <Malinux-> looks like each model is represented in source code with their own running_cost factor and different values
10:03:35 <Malinux-> so how does the value work?
10:03:43 <Malinux-> what cost does 0 represent?
10:05:06 <AndreasB> I guess theres a base cost
10:05:08 <Malinux-> I found something when googling
10:05:41 <Malinux-> description: multiplier to the base running costs
10:06:03 <juzza1> well the calculation is somethin like this for a diesel train: running cost = (running_cost_factor * 5200 * 2^(basecost multiplier)) / 128
10:06:24 <juzza1> basecost multiplier for default trains is 0
10:06:52 <juzza1> (for the set you are using it's probably something different)
10:06:54 <Malinux-> ah.. juzza1 thanx. That clears things up :)
10:07:22 <Malinux-> in the source I see values as 150 and higher
10:07:59 <Malinux-> now I have to identify the car I want to change the values for :)
10:08:43 <Malinux-> or just put all to 0
10:09:03 <juzza1> you could also search for the basecost value in the source
10:09:39 <juzza1> PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_STEAM, PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_DIESEL, PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_ELECTRIC
10:10:07 <juzza1> the wagons probably use one of those, since there is no separate value for wagons
10:11:02 <juzza1> basecost multiplier, rather
10:11:20 <AndreasB> Malinux-: What would..
10:11:37 <AndreasB> whats the fun in that? :D
10:16:25 <Malinux-> juzza1: yeah. I found it
10:16:54 <Malinux-> AndreasB: is 0 no running costs at all? I will have running costs, but not very high
10:17:01 <Malinux-> maybe 1 means multiplied with 1?
10:17:09 <AndreasB> [12:06:11] <juzza1> well the calculation is somethin like this for a diesel train: running cost = (running_cost_factor * 5200 * 2^(basecost multiplier)) / 128
10:17:15 <Malinux-> and 0 will be multiplied with 0 means none :S
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10:19:08 <juzza1> the value 5200 is also different depending on PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_XXX used, 4800 for steam, 5200 diesel and 5600 for electric
10:19:37 <juzza1> actually the other way around, 5600 steam and 4800 electric
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10:22:21 <AndreasB> how is distance calculated
10:22:30 <AndreasB> It is computed by adding the differences in x and y tiles (manhattan distance), not straight-line distance
10:22:48 <AndreasB> So there is smart rail design, and wasting time design, right?
10:23:03 <AndreasB> to achieve same distance
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10:25:48 <AndreasB> There is no point in making the train go up to edge, then north? Because going straight across diagonally would yield the same distance?
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10:47:46 <AndreasB> its way too heavy lol
10:48:48 <AndreasB> Went down to 18kmh because of a little hill :S
10:54:13 <frosch123> livestreaming ottd :p
10:54:32 <Alberth> oh, that's still visibly moving :)
10:55:19 <Malinux-> wow. it eh, it works :D
10:55:41 <AndreasB> Do you think 2 locos will do it?
10:55:50 <Malinux-> running costs is 8038$ pr year, pr. wagon
10:56:29 <Malinux-> or 564390$ pr. year.
10:58:51 <AndreasB> I dont think 2 locos is enough lol
11:08:57 <AndreasB> Are there any differences in having loco in front/rear?
11:12:17 <frosch123> somewhat, usually the engine is heavier than a wagon, so if they directly follow each other, they are more likely to be on a slope at the same time
11:12:37 <frosch123> thus increasing effective weight of the train
11:12:55 <AndreasB> but does openttd take that into account?
11:13:07 <frosch123> the weight on a slope counts yes
11:13:10 <AndreasB> should I move the 2 extra locos to the back?
11:13:17 <frosch123> you can see that your trains slows down when reaching the slope
11:13:24 <frosch123> but gets faster again once the engine has passed it
11:15:12 <AndreasB> so it should be faster with them distributed properly
11:19:19 <Dozer> Wait, you can have more than 1 loco on a trainset?
11:23:33 <V453000> soooo andythenotrh how is steam for ships going :)
11:23:50 <andythenorth> it's bollocks :P
11:23:56 <andythenorth> I stopped asking for ponies a while back :)
11:24:26 <andythenorth> there was a conversation that went something like this...
11:24:30 <andythenorth> "can I have steam for ships"
11:24:34 <V453000> go see new STEAMING ships in nuts :P
11:24:35 <andythenorth> "probably, what's the spec"
11:24:43 <andythenorth> "yes but what's the spec"
11:25:17 <andythenorth> I'd like to see you do two funnels :P
11:26:47 <andythenorth> nothing so interesting :P
11:28:06 <V453000> oh like fucking chimney
11:29:10 <AndreasB> o.O I didnt expect tha trmany people to join my server lol
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13:23:11 <AndreasB> Im trying to do rcon <pass> move 226 6
13:23:50 <frosch123> rcon <pass> "move 226 6"
13:28:28 <AndreasB> how do i reset entire company? o.O
13:28:50 <frosch123> stopcompany <number>
13:29:16 <AndreasB> resetengines doesnt work
13:29:34 <frosch123> resetengines is likely not allowed in multiplayer
13:29:44 <frosch123> and it would do something completely different anyway :p
14:23:33 <Takumo> Dumb Question that I've not found an answer for: Has anyone developed a Web interface for the OpenTTDd?
14:24:07 <Alberth> nobody published one as open source project afaik
14:24:22 <AndreasB> Whats the point of elextric vs diesel?
14:24:27 <AndreasB> It costs more, but doesnt go faster
14:24:50 <Takumo> The server hasn't got any form of API does it? So I'd have to pull some tricks with the console wouldn't I?
14:25:49 <Alberth> there is an API, and there are a few frameworks that make that api easier available afaik
14:26:53 <Takumo> Well maybe that can be my TimeWasteProject number 3.
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14:26:58 <Takumo> Will check that out frosch123
14:27:16 <Alberth> Takumo: please consider contributing to something existing
14:28:28 <Takumo> I will do, I didn't know if there was anything existing out there
14:30:51 <Takumo> That said what does exist doesn't look so great, might have to start a new project, preferably on an easier-to-access platform
14:31:20 <Takumo> that said if there is an API, knocking up a neat little Rails app or something to interface with it shouldn't be too hard
14:33:23 <frosch123> but, well, there are existing libraries for at least python and java
14:33:33 <frosch123> irrc even one for c/c++
14:33:44 <Takumo> and if it doesn't exist I'll work on a Ruby one :)
14:33:59 <frosch123> i don't remember anyone using ruby
14:34:08 <Taede> i think someone thought about starting one
14:34:16 <Taede> not sure if it ever got started
14:34:31 <Takumo> Well a Ruby OpenTTD Library should be faily straightforward
14:34:46 <Takumo> package it as a Gem that works with Rails, build an interface around it with authentication and such
14:35:32 <frosch123> i think you are the first one in this channel to mention ruby in a positive way :p
14:35:42 <andythenorth> nothing wrong with ruby
14:35:55 * Taede has no experience of ruby
14:35:55 <Takumo> Nothing wrong with most languages, except Visual Basic :P
14:36:22 <andythenorth> it's not one of those 'argue about code pointlessly' days :)
14:36:36 <frosch123> yup, today is a day of esports trolling
14:36:44 <Takumo> Javascript is O.K. I don't get all the people wetting themselves over Nodejs though
14:37:18 <frosch123> Takumo: play-ttd.com
14:37:34 <andythenorth> "nodejs allows even incompetent programmers to write high-perfomance apps"
14:37:55 <frosch123> andythenorth: sounds like a huge target group
14:37:56 <Takumo> I link to think of myself as a competant polygot programmer
14:38:12 <Takumo> and my javascript code sucks, hard.
14:40:54 <Takumo> I thought all the incompetant programmers used Java, because it pays well and Eclipse can fix all your mistakes.
14:41:24 <andythenorth> there's loads of fun trolling around node
14:42:08 <Takumo> andythenorth: Don't forget to troll the noder's tools of choice
14:42:22 <Takumo> i.e. MongoDB (CSV File on a network share much?)
16:17:40 <andythenorth> it's like old times
16:44:21 <andythenorth> V453000: drawing these pixels takes bloody ages
16:44:32 <andythenorth> I made tea, started fixing a ship, now the tea is cold :P
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17:45:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25800 /trunk/src/lang (english_AU.txt korean.txt) (2013-09-28 17:45:15 UTC)
17:45:24 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:25 <DorpsGek> english_AU - 5 changes by mrtux
17:45:26 <DorpsGek> korean - 5 changes by telk5093
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18:26:33 <andythenorth> pikka's grf apparently contains random code
18:26:44 <andythenorth> if the code is random, the grf probably isn't savegame safe
18:38:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: when i open the off-topic forum, it comes up with random glibberish
18:38:44 <andythenorth> I think #tycoon does the same
18:38:57 <andythenorth> maybe it's just my client handling unicode badly or something :P
18:39:40 * andythenorth wonders where that pony thread went
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20:18:32 <__ln__> btw, seems that Apple has dropped GCC from Xcode 5, gcc and g++ are just aliases for clang(++).
20:53:16 <__ln__> configure --help --> "--with-liblzma[=liblzma.a] enables liblzma support"
20:54:14 <__ln__> but configure tries to execute the provided argument and says it is invalid. no shit.
20:54:49 <__ln__> so how does that switch actually work?
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21:31:46 <Supercheese> Hmm, I wonder if there are any other games translated into Latin I can borrow translations from...
21:32:03 <Supercheese> I found Legend of Zelda in Latin, but I was hoping for more computer-related terms
21:35:46 <Rubidium> what kind of computer terms do you need?
21:35:56 <Rubidium> you can always translate words literally ;)
21:36:30 <Rubidium> yields awful words though, at least in Dutch
21:37:15 <Supercheese> Well, if someone had translated e.g. Age of Empires into Latin (which I'm surprised I haven't found to have happened yet), it would be very helpful
21:37:44 <Supercheese> __ln__: gratias tibi!
21:39:04 <Supercheese> I'm particularly interested in what others have translated "click and drag" to
21:39:12 <Supercheese> I went "deprime traheque"
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22:29:37 <Supercheese> Hmm, I disagree with the heavy use of first-person conjugations there
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