IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-07-13
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00:00:25 <Xaroth|Work> iirc there was some kind of option you could use when upgrading
00:00:34 <Xaroth|Work> to keep the train its length
00:04:35 <Dr_Tan> why aren't there one way signs that aren't signals?
00:04:42 <Dr_Tan> those would be handy in some layouts
00:04:57 <Dr_Tan> just do not enter signs
00:06:45 <Xaroth|Work> I can't think of a layout that requires such signs
00:07:08 <Xaroth|Work> good signal placement should compensate
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00:59:07 <Elukka> anyone know if cargodist (which is in trunk, yay!) can now deal with non non-stop orders?
00:59:30 <Elukka> i noticed if a train stops at a station where it's not specifically instructed to it gets an "implicit" order to stop there, which leads me to think the answer is yes
01:01:07 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that was the main intention behind them
01:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but try to avoid situation where a train occasionally misses an inbetween stop (e.g. going to depot behind a station)
01:06:46 <Elukka> not a problem, i don't have maintenance on
01:06:59 <Elukka> and vehicles never expire but i still get messages that they're too old... did i miss a setting to disable those?
01:12:19 <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately, you can only disable all vehicle messages, not the age message individually
01:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause> at least the last time i played
01:23:39 <Elukka> one more in this barrage of questions! did something change in FIRS to make industries process cargo instantly?
01:23:46 <Elukka> i think it used to do it with a limited rate and i preferred that
01:26:04 <Eddi|zuHause> no, FIRS never did that
01:26:19 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you're thinking of ECS or PBI
01:26:48 <Elukka> weird, i was sure it did
01:27:03 <Elukka> in game the industries even have a field for "Cargo waiting to be processed"
01:27:23 <Elukka> an old thread about what it sets out to do mentions it's gonna do this... maybe it was just never implemented?
01:27:29 <Eddi|zuHause> if there was ever anything that did NOT change during FIRS development, it's that andy hates stockpiles :p
01:28:36 <Elukka> "FIRS will be more TTD-ish but eventually it will take a little while for processing industries to process output from input."
01:28:53 <Elukka> release log also mentions a bug fixed relating to cargo processing at some point
01:29:41 <Elukka> i remember the no stockpile thing but this isn't really about stockpiles :P
01:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what you're trying to tell me
01:31:52 <Eddi|zuHause> processing speed and stockpiles are technically very closely related. and even if there was some vague idea in the beginning, there have never been serious plans developed out ot it
01:32:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and the "cargo waiting to be processed" is a misfeature of the industry specs
01:33:27 <Eddi|zuHause> it appears as soon as the production callback is used, and the newgrf has no way to hide it again, when it serves no purpose
01:36:48 <Elukka> it's most likely i just remember wrong
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06:18:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25593 /trunk/src/network/core (3 files) (2013-07-13 06:18:16 UTC)
06:18:23 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: remove a few stale #defines
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06:32:47 <frosch123> more sleepless people :)
06:39:00 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25594 /trunk/src/script/api (3 files) (2013-07-13 06:38:54 UTC)
06:39:01 <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish: some Doxygen warnings/errors for scripts
06:41:25 <andythenorth> Early to bed, early to rise
06:41:59 <frosch123> you have toddlers, you have no power about your wake time
06:42:10 * andythenorth wonders if ogfx has some 1 tile building to repaint for FIRS trading post
06:44:27 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25595 /trunk (5 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-13 06:44:22 UTC)
06:44:28 <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish: move the Doxygen .tag files into objs, so they are automatically ignored and removed upon mrproper/distclean. Furthermore remove the gamedocs folder too
06:44:59 <planetmaker> not sure, andythenorth... maybe the saloon?
06:49:47 <andythenorth> planetmaker: thanks will look later
06:50:42 <frosch123> hmm, never saw the "monthly supply" thingie in the station view
06:50:47 <frosch123> is that a cargodist thing?
06:55:48 <planetmaker> lol, the building I had in mind is the tropical church, andythenorth :-)
07:04:04 <Dr_Tan> are there any grfs that replace food/goods demand from houses with market buildings that appear in cities with large enough populations and demand goods and food?
07:04:12 <Dr_Tan> that would make delivering them much less irritating
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07:05:09 <planetmaker> dunno. maybe you draw some?
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07:07:45 <Supercheese> FIRS has food markets
07:08:07 <planetmaker> even the default game has them.
07:08:08 <Supercheese> but of course default houses still want goods/food
07:08:40 <planetmaker> there's a 2x2 building by default which very much looks like a supermarket
07:08:51 <Nat_aS> I was thinking having them always be present in any city above X size
07:09:18 <planetmaker> the water tower is also not necessarily present ;-)
07:09:41 <Nat_aS> well in towns with desert tiles it is
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07:10:09 <Nat_aS> oh yeah, I'm so used to playing built maps
07:10:12 <planetmaker> the tower is an industry. without it present and having water delivered to, a desert town won't grow, though
07:10:28 <planetmaker> but you can create in SE a BIIIIG desert map w/o tower
07:10:43 <planetmaker> possibly even ingame byfunding building construction
07:12:25 <Nat_aS> would be nice if every town had a market for food collection
07:12:36 <planetmaker> make a house newgrf
07:12:40 <Nat_aS> and once it got big enough a shopping mall would be added for goods collection
07:12:53 <planetmaker> or first make the sprites
07:13:00 <Nat_aS> would simplify triatary goods delivery
07:13:16 <Nat_aS> I hate it when towns stop accepting goods because a house got moved
07:30:20 <planetmaker> ah... with k3diff the branch updating works nicer than with vimdiff :-)
07:31:15 <Rubidium> frosch123: rather from the flow logger, but yes... cargodist could be seen as its origin (just like implicit orders)
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07:47:32 <andythenorth> planetmaker: that is a good sprite to adapt thanks
07:48:35 <V453000> andythenorth: are there any other new cargoes other than coffee?
07:49:07 <andythenorth> All others were already in ttd
07:49:33 <V453000> I mean any other cargo new in firs which nuts doesnt support yet
07:49:51 <planetmaker> he meant the new economy "Heart of Darkness"
07:50:01 <planetmaker> other economies didn't change
07:51:04 <andythenorth> Typing on ipad slow
07:51:22 <andythenorth> I binned frvg as well
07:52:19 <V453000> well thats fine, frut is what the ttd tropic one is right?
07:53:36 <V453000> good then that needs no fixing :D
07:54:13 <andythenorth> Bbl -going gromit hunting
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09:05:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25596 extra/masterserver_updater/src/contentserver/handler.cpp (2013-07-13 09:05:11 UTC)
09:05:18 <DorpsGek> [MSU] -Fix [FS#5635]: The content server would terminate the connection after 2 minutes if it weren't sending enough data fast enough to fill the operating system's send buffer. For example the content list fits completely in the operating system's send buffer, and as a result it did nu update the 'last activity' counter which meant it would just close the 'idle' network connection
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09:26:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25597 /trunk/src/network (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-13 09:26:11 UTC)
09:26:18 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5635]: [Content] When the server closed the connection, the client would for eternity try to read a packet and never timeout making it impossible to reconnect
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09:40:31 <Wolf01> strange, when I check the time in the morning is always 11:38, I think is a clear signal to see that movie...
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09:59:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25598 trunk/docs/admin_network.txt (2013-07-13 09:59:09 UTC)
09:59:16 <DorpsGek> -Doc: Implications of the asynchronous processing of the rcon content command on send time of ADMIN_SERVER_ADMIN_RCON and ADMIN_SERVER_ADMIN_RCON_END packets
10:01:14 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: got a situation for that?
10:01:28 <planetmaker> rcon content update
10:01:50 <Xaroth|Work> k, will check later today
10:01:51 <planetmaker> rcon content select *
10:01:56 <planetmaker> rcon content download
10:02:00 <planetmaker> would do as well, I guess
10:02:10 <planetmaker> snytax might slightly vary. written by heart
10:02:51 <Xaroth|Work> but that still outputs to rcon packets? :o
10:03:38 <Xaroth|Work> as the RCON_END packet is sent after the redirect is reset to normal
10:14:05 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r25599 /branches/1.3 (24 files in 9 dirs) (2013-07-13 10:13:55 UTC)
10:14:06 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.3] -Backport from trunk:
10:14:07 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: [Admin] End-of-rcon data could not be determined reliably for any rcon command [FS#5643] (r25598, r25588, r25587)
10:14:08 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: [Content] When the server closed the connection, the client would for eternity try to read a packet and never timeout making it impossible to reconnect [FS#5635] (r25597)
10:14:09 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: [Script] Changing the script difficulty level in-game would also change the settings using the default even though they were not allowed to change in-game [FS#5644] (r25592)
10:28:42 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25600 /trunk/src/lang (38 files in 2 dirs) (2013-07-13 10:28:31 UTC)
10:28:43 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
10:28:44 <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 8 changes by siu238X
10:28:45 <DorpsGek> japanese - 287 changes by guppy
10:28:46 <DorpsGek> russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
10:28:48 <DorpsGek> tamil - 6 changes by ganesh
10:29:12 <NCG3982> My god, the eye tracking documentation for the Galaxy S4 is horrible.
10:37:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25601 /branches/1.3/src/lang (6 files) (2013-07-13 10:37:17 UTC)
10:37:23 <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Backport from trunk: language updates
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10:40:04 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25602 /branches/1.3 (6 files in 4 dirs) (2013-07-13 10:39:57 UTC)
10:40:05 <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Prepare: for 1.3.2-RC2
10:45:57 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25603 /tags/1.3.2-RC2 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2013-07-13 10:45:52 UTC)
10:47:52 <Eddi|zuHause> eye tracking is a really dangerous thing... the first thing that will come is that advertisments get paid only if they were seen, the next thing the popups will appear where you're currently looking at, and it can only get worse from that....
10:48:31 <Eddi|zuHause> imagine google glass: "you looked at this woman's ass, want to look her up on facebook?"
10:49:35 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly, but you will notice how often you really look at women's asses.
10:49:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and what if your gf/wife has an app that gets this notice from your app?
10:51:26 <Eddi|zuHause> or imagine: "this person looks at kids a lot, alert the authorities that he might become a child molester"
10:51:54 <NCG3982> Eddi|zuHause: Oh god, true.
10:52:29 * Rubidium was rather thinking about: "you saw crime XYZ happening and did nothing, you are an accomplice"
10:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause> or in general "this guy is 98% likely to commit a crime"
10:54:49 <Eddi|zuHause> there was an american supermarket chain which noticed things like "if a woman buys unscented body soap, and a month later buys vitamin pills, it's 99% probability she's pregnant" and then sent out congratulation letters
10:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> and then a guy complained that his 14 year old daughter got such a letter
10:55:30 <Rubidium> ... which was incidentally pregnant as well (?)
10:55:58 <Eddi|zuHause> the father turned really quiet the next day :)
11:00:15 * Rubidium is happy they don't seem to be doing such things here
11:00:47 <Rubidium> generally they are harshly frowned upon when they do such things
11:01:11 <Eddi|zuHause> you really think they're not doing that?
11:01:27 <planetmaker> they're harshly frowned upon when someone makes it public that they do such things
11:01:32 <Rubidium> they're doing it to some extent
11:01:33 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe not sending out personalized letters, but reorganizing store layouts and stuff
11:02:13 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but that is generally datamining without getting personal information like address and name
11:03:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: think of what kind of data they collect to determine your credit rating
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11:04:21 <Rubidium> I know of one time when they willingly broke the rules and weren't punished for it. Someone was putting rat poison into some food, so everyone that bought food they had a suspicion of containing rat poison was contacted by the supermarket (which is IMO the right use of such data)
11:05:01 <planetmaker> that's somewhat different, yes
11:05:09 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: here all debs are registered at some organisation, including whether you paid them on time or not
11:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i mean things like "this guy bought a cheaper brand of cigarretes than he used to"
11:20:04 * Zuu_ got no customer card for groceries, though I usually pay using thr same card, so if they record a token based on my card Id they could track me whithout me getting any bonus. :p
11:26:29 <Eddi|zuHause> about half the time i pay in cash, but that probably doesn't help a lot either
11:27:04 <planetmaker> they likely do that, Zuu_ :-)
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11:35:09 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it's recorded under "the guy that pays in cash"
11:36:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure if you're running a basic pattern matching algorithm over a bunch of cash paid bills with the items that were bought, you can easily split them up between individual people. assuming they buy there regularly
11:42:26 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that only works if there are two guys with very similar license plates :)
11:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause> oh crap, tiny insect season has begun
11:48:21 <frosch123> get more big insects
11:50:29 <Eddi|zuHause> or just don't open the window for the next 6 weeks
11:50:31 <zooks> brr, thinking of the enormous bugs in my room in Zimbabwe
11:51:15 <Eddi|zuHause> we had a rather big bug while picking cherries last week
11:51:29 <Eddi|zuHause> about this long <---------->
11:51:51 * frosch123 switches to 320x200 resolution
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11:52:34 <Eddi|zuHause> lack of comparison :p
11:53:03 <Eddi|zuHause> but unicorns are usually described as bright white :)
11:53:24 <frosch123> zooks: that looks like 20 cm
11:53:33 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: most are rainbow
11:53:57 <zooks> frosch123, with antennas I'd estimate it on 15cm
11:54:32 <Eddi|zuHause> wait, you didn't actually get a ruler out?
11:54:39 <Xaroth|Work> oeh, grats on r25600
11:54:58 <zooks> no, I squashed it with a large book
11:55:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the poor thing :(
11:58:37 <zooks> Is it true that the tour the France is being denied by the German media?
11:58:57 <planetmaker> "there is no tour de France"? :-P
11:59:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes-ish, but that has been going on for years now
12:00:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know how it is this year, but one of the previous years when the doping scandals stacked up, channels stopped the live broadcast
12:00:32 <planetmaker> who cares anyway?
12:00:46 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably still on eurosport
12:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and they still report highlights and stuff
12:01:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't watched in years
12:01:54 <zooks> Some German riders are doing very well, so I was wondering whether they would be acknowledged in Germany
12:02:10 <planetmaker> it's reported, yes
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14:12:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25604 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2013-07-13 14:12:14 UTC)
14:12:22 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5550]: Only the front engine's date of last service was updated
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15:03:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25605 trunk/src/script/api/script_rail.cpp (2013-07-13 15:03:42 UTC)
15:03:49 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5641]: [Script] If a NewGRF returned station type that could not be built by an AI via callback 18, an unknown error would be thrown instead of falling back to the default station
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16:19:02 <V453000> does an univ railtype newGRF need to redefine the other railtypes in order to be compatible with them?
16:19:32 <V453000> cause I made a railtype with compatible_railtype_list: ["UNIV", "RAIL", "ELRL", "MONO", "MGLV", "WETR", "UNI1", "UNI2","UNI3","UNI4","UNI5","UNI6","UNI7","UNI8"] and powered the same, but neither of those tracks are compatible with it
16:21:30 <V453000> UNI1-UNI8 are various new rails but for some reason I cant get any trains to be able to drive on them
16:21:59 <planetmaker> you don't need to re-define them. You just need to list their labels as compatible
16:22:15 <planetmaker> and / or as powered on. Or introduced by / introducing
16:22:30 <V453000> not the introducing ones though
16:22:43 <V453000> but the UNIV rail I have NUTS works without that too
16:24:02 <planetmaker> you might want to go even further. And also add some labels from other railway sets
16:24:37 <V453000> it doesnt work atm so cant do that yet
16:24:40 <planetmaker> universal rail surely needs neither 'introduces railtype XX' nor 'requires railtype XXX being introduced'
16:25:19 <V453000> with only the rail newGRF loaded, no trains from rail,elrl,mono,or mglv can drive on it
16:25:24 <planetmaker> what you *might* set is the 'alternative_railtype_list' - a list of railtypes which it will act as plug-in for, if they are not defined
16:26:18 <planetmaker> you need to set the compatibility of the *other* railtypes to the universal
16:26:28 <planetmaker> so indeed you need to define that property for those
16:27:02 <V453000> right, so I need to re-define all of the railtypes too
16:27:18 <planetmaker> you can really do that very simplistic: only that single property need be set
16:27:48 <planetmaker> no graphics, no knowledge about any other property needed
16:28:10 <planetmaker> just re-defining a single property. :-)
16:28:13 <V453000> will try, question number 2 inc soon :P
16:28:52 <planetmaker> btw, I'd guard that by a check for the railtypes availability
16:32:10 <V453000> nice, re-defining seems to work
16:33:02 <planetmaker> untested and likely buggy, though ;-)
16:34:11 <V453000> I have to admit I dont care about people who add too many railtypes together but hm
16:40:50 <planetmaker> well... but makes it more fail-proof
16:41:02 <planetmaker> with little effort, I'd think
16:41:45 <V453000> I might try to add it after I have something working :)
16:41:58 <planetmaker> that's a good idea surely :-)
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17:03:42 <V453000> which might be the case very soon :)
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17:45:28 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25606 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-07-13 17:45:20 UTC)
17:45:29 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:30 <DorpsGek> german - 5 changes by Jogio
17:45:31 <DorpsGek> japanese - 1 changes by guppy
17:45:32 <DorpsGek> korean - 4 changes by telk5093
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19:16:36 <dihedral> that looks to me like the RCON_END packet is absolutely useless
19:16:59 <planetmaker> yes. no. maybe :-)
19:17:03 <Rubidium> it is for asynchronous stuff
19:17:21 <planetmaker> afaik only when content is called
19:17:31 <Rubidium> but that's effectively two things, and by the looks of things those asynchronous replies are not even sent back via rcon
19:18:04 <Xaroth|Work> and even in the case of async stuff, it's an ack.
19:18:36 <Rubidium> so if you download via rcon you have no clue whether it's down, unless you manage to get the non rcon console stuff
19:18:46 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: snail was last seen in #openttd 13 weeks, 5 days, 20 hours, 33 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <Snail> new japanese anime :p
19:20:35 <dihedral> and just for the reference ... the ping pong patch was mine you had committed. just in case you were looking for the other :-P
19:21:02 <planetmaker> I committed the paste Xaroth gave me
19:21:12 <planetmaker> when all of us talked in the afternoon
19:21:16 <Xaroth|Work> i uploaded patches to the flyspray
19:21:18 <planetmaker> well... 17:xx that day
19:21:42 <dihedral> dih uploaded pasts :-P
19:21:58 <Xaroth|Work> i did a few pastes as well
19:22:01 <dihedral> Xaroth|Work, used 'payload' and public methods, dih used d1 and private methods :-D
19:22:14 <Xaroth|Work> but the final version was sent to flyspray
19:22:22 <dihedral> none the less Xaroth|Work you did good work :-)
19:22:36 <planetmaker> sorry, if I then mis-attributed the patch, dihedral
19:24:02 <planetmaker> you win a beer in two weeks :D
19:26:53 <dihedral> planetmaker, nah - that's fine, i just wanted to point it out, that's all
19:27:30 <dihedral> you never know if there were intentions to commit a patch from one person and accidentially swapped the two patches ;-)
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19:32:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v planetmaker
19:32:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Rubidium
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19:46:37 <dihedral> to be honest, i enjoy the admin port receiving commits :-P
19:46:54 <dihedral> so that alone made my day :-)
19:47:52 <dihedral> planetmaker, you did forget though about the completion of the GameScript patch... but i do think i need to revise it :-P
20:22:07 <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.3.1, 1.3.2-RC2
20:22:07 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.3.1, 1.3.2-RC2 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices"
20:26:04 <planetmaker> good night from here, too
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22:34:43 <Elukka> where do you get old nightlies?
23:02:34 *** Djohaal has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
