IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-07-07
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00:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, i found the original box, and this sheet of paper says 3 years warranty
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02:31:57 <sound> i am facing a sound problem on windows
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07:15:27 <andythenorth> python list comprehensions: how do I drop one specific item from the result?
07:15:32 <andythenorth> based on the value
07:15:46 <andythenorth> if item is 'foo' I don't want it
07:20:37 <andythenorth> oh, it's trivial :P
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08:09:46 <Eddi|zuHause> [x for x in foo if x != bar]
08:20:01 <Alberth> andy is way too fast these days :)
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08:23:53 <frosch123> you were only one hour earlier than me today :)
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09:00:54 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25571 extra/masterserver_updater/src/contentserver/handler.cpp (2013-07-07 09:00:47 UTC)
09:00:55 <DorpsGek> [MSU] -Fix: assertion triggered in contentserver
09:02:19 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25572 extra/masterserver_updater/src/shared/mysql.cpp (2013-07-07 09:02:13 UTC)
09:02:20 <DorpsGek> [MSU] -Change/fix-ish: make order of results from the content server more reliable
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10:29:42 <LordAro> hmm, HD 7770 or HD 7850 ?
10:37:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25573 /trunk/src (lang/slovak.txt network/core/tcp_content.cpp) (2013-07-07 10:37:16 UTC)
10:37:23 <DorpsGek> -Change: make content list appear faster by allowing some window redraws in between
10:41:08 <LordAro> " What arbitrary number to choose is the ultimate question though." hehe :)
10:41:53 <frosch123> he did not pick 85 though
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12:07:12 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25574 /trunk/src (gfx_layout.cpp gfx_layout.h) (2013-07-07 12:07:06 UTC)
12:07:13 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r25570): Trouble with initialisation order of static members of Layouter and FontCache.
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14:40:42 <Alberth> writing an assembler is fun :)
14:41:07 <Wolf01> I did it once, and it was just a logic ic tester
14:41:35 <Eddi|zuHause> not "write in assembler", "write _an_ assembler"
14:42:05 <Eddi|zuHause> as in, the program that transforms assembler code into machine code
14:42:40 <Wolf01> misread, the a and the i are so similar :P
14:43:20 <Alberth> it's a common mistake
14:43:20 <Eddi|zuHause> grfcodec is some sort of assembler
14:43:41 <Alberth> input language is quite easy :p
14:44:22 <Alberth> no labels and constants :)
14:47:41 <Eddi|zuHause> there are jump labels somewhere
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14:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause> man that was aaaages ago
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15:45:17 <alluke> what licence does dutch station set have
15:46:12 <frosch123> does it have a readme or license file?
15:46:44 <alluke> but i modded some platforms for friss and thought id post them to the friss topic
15:46:49 <alluke> without getting trouble
15:48:11 <frosch123> hmm, yeah, it is not properly licensed
15:48:56 <frosch123> XeryusTC: please add a licence or copying file to the repository
15:49:47 <frosch123> oh, untouched since 2008
15:50:30 <alluke> i think noone minds it since quast made the addition set
15:53:52 <XeryusTC> it has no license? :o
15:55:21 <XeryusTC> pm must´ve missed that one when he scolded me for not adding licenses to my projects
15:56:36 <alluke> and who drew the canadian stations brick platforms
15:56:53 <frosch123> does it have a readme?
15:57:43 <XeryusTC> btw, dutch station set´s graphics license are a bit weird, they are mb´s original creation, but modified by Purno to look Dutch
15:58:06 <alluke> graphics by lifeblood and oz
15:58:54 <frosch123> alluke: well, then better don't touch either of those sets
15:59:30 <frosch123> dutch not having any licence at all, and canadian for sure non-free
16:00:29 <XeryusTC> for dutch you better ask on the forums, you´ve got my permission to mess with the code, if you dare ;)
16:11:34 <alluke> ill post the graphics and ask
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17:45:56 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25575 /trunk/src/lang (8 files) (2013-07-07 17:45:42 UTC)
17:45:57 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:58 <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 1 changes by siu238X
17:45:59 <DorpsGek> croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
17:46:00 <DorpsGek> english_AU - 2 changes by mrtux
17:46:01 <DorpsGek> japanese - 32 changes by guppy
17:46:02 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 38 changes by cuthbert
17:46:03 <DorpsGek> slovak - 1 changes by Milsa
17:46:04 <DorpsGek> tamil - 15 changes by aswn
17:46:05 <DorpsGek> turkish - 29 changes by emremeydan
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19:04:44 <andythenorth> FIRS: station names from nearby industry
19:05:02 * andythenorth has to fix missing ones or remove more. Wants opinion.
19:05:51 <alluke> theres error in firs finnish translation
19:06:09 <alluke> lumber yard and sawmill have same names
19:06:20 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause ¿ ^^^ I trust your opinion, even if I don't always agree
19:06:35 <Alberth> andythenorth: seems somewhat useful to me
19:08:07 <andythenorth> there are 45 missing strings and 38 outdated for Finnish
19:08:53 <Alberth> and at least 1 wrong translation :p
19:10:31 <alluke> why are ä and ö converted to √§ and √∂ ?
19:10:54 <frosch123> select utf-8 encoding in your browser
19:11:36 <frosch123> "menu->view->character encoding->unicode utf-8" for me
19:11:45 <Alberth> and please also in your editor
19:12:21 <alluke> ye converted it to utf
19:12:47 <Alberth> huh? it was already utf-8 :)
19:14:56 <frosch123> nah, what albert meant is: the file was already utf-8, and you did not convert it, but you changed the interpretation of the file on your side
19:15:20 <frosch123> basically you switched your os from dos 1990 compatibility to a year 2000 (?) standard
19:17:41 <frosch123> oh, actually unicode is way older
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19:18:59 <andythenorth> does anybody care about cargo payment rates?
19:19:10 <andythenorth> before I spend too long obsessing about them :P
19:19:56 <Adson102> I've opened OpenTTD on android 4.0 tablet... and i have question, is there any possiblity to open cheat window without using ctrl alt c? Cuz i dont have this buttons ! XD
19:20:05 <frosch123> impressive, utf-8 is from 1993
19:20:35 <frosch123> so even more hillarious how certain os still default to 8 bit latin-x encodings
19:21:00 <glx> frosch123: don't you mean 1250 ?
19:21:32 <Alberth> alluke: if you really converted the file, you would now have a broken file (as in doubly encoded)
19:23:02 <Alberth> alluke: probably a good step, you don't want to save an utf-8 file under another encoding
19:23:09 <glx> so utf8 opened as latin1 then saved as utf8 is totally broken
19:28:38 <alluke> must i add the missing strings to the file manually
19:33:10 <Adson102> Can i open cheat window using a command ?
19:33:32 <andythenorth> weight and capacity multiplier of coffee cargo? 1.0 for both?
19:34:05 <andythenorth> coffee is pretty light
19:34:24 <andythenorth> then there's the whole volume / weight / units shenanigan :P
19:34:29 * andythenorth needs a collaborator
19:34:43 <frosch123> what kind of coffee?
19:34:56 <glx> Adson102: we don't support the mobile version
19:34:57 <andythenorth> coffee beans, unit is sacks
19:35:03 <frosch123> still green, or already "baked"?
19:35:53 <frosch123> use something between grain and fruit?
19:36:03 <Adson102> Thx ;D so i must play fair o/
19:36:08 <frosch123> i would think coffee is lighter than grain
19:36:11 <frosch123> but heavier than fruit
19:36:39 <andythenorth> grain + fruit both have weight 1 and cap. multiplier 1
19:37:53 <alluke> when will firs get nicer oil refinery and aore mine graphics?
19:37:57 <andythenorth> why does rubber set liquid class only?
19:38:06 <frosch123> alluke: wrong question
19:38:56 <frosch123> andythenorth: because packaged cargo is boring to transport
19:41:25 <andythenorth> I doubt it's the actual cause :)
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20:04:32 <andythenorth> I think I'll leave cap and weight at 1 :P
20:06:32 <frosch123> oh wait, it was "bags" right?
20:06:38 <frosch123> then weight should be less :)
20:07:23 <andythenorth> slight difference
20:08:12 <frosch123> doesn't ttd also use bags for mail, instead of sacks?
20:09:00 <frosch123> sounds like timber and lumber to me :p
20:10:39 <andythenorth> herp, now I need to set town effects
20:10:55 <andythenorth> copper ore: none
20:11:38 <frosch123> actually, goods is a silly town effect
20:11:42 <frosch123> no real town effect
20:12:09 <andythenorth> all town effects are a bit zilly imo
20:12:14 <andythenorth> still, we are where we are :)
20:13:17 <andythenorth> frosch123: would you remove TE from goods? o_O
20:13:42 <frosch123> te is abused for 3 different purposes
20:14:11 <frosch123> pax/mail te affects what is shown in town gui statistics (no gameplay effect at all)
20:14:21 <frosch123> water/food is actual gameplay
20:14:30 <frosch123> goods affects subsidy generation
20:14:49 <frosch123> i think the goods thingie is most likely to be dropped at some point, if it actually isn't already
20:15:01 <frosch123> i recall terkhen doing stuff around there
20:15:12 <andythenorth> I didn't know goods affected subsidies
20:15:19 <andythenorth> and I have been playing for....some time :)
20:15:31 <frosch123> andythenorth: never mind, it was already fixed
20:16:12 <andythenorth> so FIRS sets TE water for cargo Goods
20:16:18 <andythenorth> which is pleasing :)
20:16:19 <frosch123> so, goods effect is basically non existent
20:17:44 <andythenorth> there are two properties for colour :)
20:17:58 <andythenorth> so station list and cargo chains and payment chart can diverge
21:10:00 <andythenorth> changelogs in markdown?
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21:49:40 <alluke> why did ai sell its profitable trucks
21:49:58 <Zuu> because some condition told it to sell them
21:50:17 <Zuu> Eg. it may have detected a possible congestion
21:50:51 <alluke> i buit a highway for its vehicles
21:51:21 <Zuu> But to get a better answer, you need to tell us which AI you use and probably ask the author of it along with a savegame.
21:51:52 <alluke> and no, i wont bother him with this crap
21:53:33 <__ln__> perhaps the ai hired Elop as the ceo
21:55:19 <alluke> sucks that you cant change ai settings ni-game
21:56:08 <alluke> lets hope ai_developer_tools = true works
21:56:52 <Zuu> alluke: You can change AI settings in game.
21:57:12 <alluke> no, they were all greyed out
21:57:35 <Zuu> Use the '?' menu to the far right in the game
21:58:14 <Zuu> Did you first click on the AI "tab"?
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21:58:28 <Zuu> (Those button that has the company colour)
22:00:49 <Zuu> Note that AIs and GSs can per setting set a flag if the setting can be changed in-game.
22:02:15 <Zuu> In trunk, I "fixed" that GS settings can be opened in-game via the normal settings window, however after that I noticed that AI settings can't be viewed in-game via the settings window. So its somewhat on my list to also fix the AIs so that you don't need to find the AI debug window to change settings of an AI when the developers has told OpenTTD that settings _can_ be changed.
22:04:09 <Zuu> IIRC, the default is that a setting cannot be changed in-game. For my AIs/GSs, I have enabled that for 99% of my settings. The only case when I haven't is when there is a real reason to dissalow it.
22:05:20 <Zuu> But if the author of other AIs don't see the point of allowing users to change settings, then it will be disabled.
22:05:49 <Zuu> CluelessPlus, PAXLink, IdleMore and TownCars
22:11:20 <Zuu> Aditionally, many AIs use SuperLib which is a library with a common base that I use for most of my AIs/GSs. It is a quite fat library with everything from simple helpers up to building a bus stop in a town. (but of course misses a lot of things others may want because they want to do something else than what I did)
22:32:45 <alluke> zuu you must have had fun while writing cluelessplus
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22:33:24 <Zuu> yes, otherwise I wouldn't have released almost 30 versions of it :-)
22:33:59 <alluke> those debug texts.....
22:34:23 <Zuu> Hmm, anything that stands out?
22:34:42 <Zuu> Other than it calling everything a 'bus' even if it is an aircraft or a truck?
22:36:11 <alluke> "the ai is so happy with the new hq that it cant think about anything else for a while.."
22:36:38 <Zuu> Ah.. that string is printed if you have the 'slow AI' setting enabled in its settings.
22:37:17 <Zuu> It adds some artificial delays after certain actions. Most noticable while building road. The HQ also has a delay and that debug message :-)
22:37:49 <alluke> whats with the station naming
22:37:59 <Zuu> It stores data in the station names
22:38:09 <alluke> cant it be stored somewhere else
22:38:18 <Zuu> Not as robust as in the station names
22:39:01 <Zuu> CluelessPlus do not store anything in the save game other than the data it store in station and vehicle names. This way, if the AI crashes, I can save the game and reload from that point.
22:39:39 <Zuu> There doesn't need to be any special recover in that case, just normal save/load.
22:41:20 <Zuu> Btw, the smiley at the end of the station name is not data - only some random letters to make the name unique :-)
22:43:45 <alluke> why not stations default name?
22:45:03 <Zuu> Station names are limited to 31 chars. The default name wouldn't always fit. Also, I'm quite unsure if the AI can get the default string in a such way that it can combine it with another string and set that as station sign.
22:45:16 <Zuu> Also, I find the smiley solution more fun.
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