IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-06-18
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08:06:10 <planetmaker> Jomann, all services should be up again
08:06:26 <planetmaker> thanks for the notification as well
08:12:17 <NGC3982> Seriosly, that Xbox One thing is quite the poop deck.
08:16:57 <Jomann> yeah thank you planetmaker
08:20:09 <Jomann> I wanted to test some high traffic junctions and lines... but without wiki :/
08:23:06 <Jomann> at which year is monorail time?
08:26:17 <Jomann> wow, this chat seems to be read as ingame chat ;)
08:29:01 <Xaroth|Work> and not everybody is looking at this all the time
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09:14:38 <peter1138> hmm, to make white labels on some black key caps, should i use paper or tippex?
09:15:22 <peter1138> i don't have a white pen :(
09:25:56 <se5a> so I've got a train going round a circular track, but it doesnt seem to be collecting anything
09:26:07 <se5a> I did have a train going around the same track before and it was working
09:26:14 <se5a> then I added another train, but they crashed
09:26:29 <se5a> so after the pileup was cleaned up I re-added one train
09:27:21 <se5a> the stations are all three tiles long, the train is 4 carages+ enging
09:27:40 <se5a> I did extend some stations thinking that might be the reason
09:32:49 <Pinkbeast> se5a: The space bar and Enter are not interchangeable. Does it have orders to stop? To pick up cargo?
09:34:31 <se5a> it has goto orders for each of the stations around the loop
09:36:45 <Pinkbeast> And loading orders? Is it refitted to carry the right cargo?
09:37:51 <se5a> loading orders are just the default, and yes it's got the right carrages
09:38:08 <Pinkbeast> But are they refitted to carry the right cargo?
09:38:27 <Pinkbeast> Try adding an explicit load order where you expect it to load.
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10:45:38 <NGC3982> When trying to duplicate a train, i get "Train too long"
10:45:44 <NGC3982> With an allready existing train
10:45:51 <NGC3982> No configuration changes has been made.
10:48:00 <NGC3982> The size of the Flatcar in NARS simply changed.
10:48:50 <planetmaker> and unexpected. Should be a new wagon then
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14:18:43 <Eddi|zuHause> that was the test whether glx is here?
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19:01:29 <HolyDragoon> Hello... let me check if I get this right.
19:01:47 <HolyDragoon> To keep extracting industries going, I must spam them with transports?
19:02:16 <Alberth> that delays the closure
19:03:16 <HolyDragoon> Hmmm... makes sense, but doesn't make sense at the same time. I guess it's a matter of investment/upkeep vs. total income from the hauls.
19:03:17 <Alberth> production fluctuates randomly, but with a negative trend for extractive industries (ie to simulate them running out of stuff to extract)
19:03:34 <planetmaker> eh... Alberth mines never close, if served well
19:03:40 <planetmaker> only temperate oil wells close
19:03:46 <planetmaker> (assuming default industries)
19:03:47 <HolyDragoon> That explains the 500+ ton coal mine, then.
19:04:20 <planetmaker> you described ecs behaviour, Alberth ;-)
19:04:59 <HolyDragoon> ECS... is that the GRF that makes everything... twice as complex?
19:05:08 <Alberth> good, now I can fake to believe HolyDragoon was talking about another industry set :p
19:05:40 <Alberth> HolyDragoon: depends on your point of view, others find it twice as much of a challenge :)
19:05:44 <HolyDragoon> I check mods around, but I must admit that after all this time, the only thing I'm good at is passenger transports... and even that is doubtful.
19:06:13 <HolyDragoon> True, I haven't got the hang of it. Probably worth another peek, though.
19:06:26 <Alberth> you may want to try FIRS too
19:07:09 <Alberth> recommended to begin with a basic economy, or you'll drown in the number of industries and connections
19:08:16 <planetmaker> yeah. If you're new, don't yet start with changing industries. Use industry NewGRFs when you want something new after you know the default ones
19:08:46 <Alberth> or if you want a slightly changed but not too different industry set, opengfx+industries
19:08:58 <HolyDragoon> I got the hang of the chains, is just on the transport part that I kind of suck.
19:09:46 <planetmaker> yeah... opengfx+industries allow to arbitrarily select chains from all climates
19:09:53 <Alberth> you could post a savegame of an attempt and ask for feedback about problems you experience
19:11:06 <Alberth> planetmaker: including toyland? :o
19:11:42 <Alberth> toyland industries in temperate might be fun :)
19:12:29 <HolyDragoon> My biggst grip with it is the range of useable stuff.
19:13:12 <Alberth> planetmaker: last weekend I discovered the alpine climate in opengfx+landscape, much better than the grey/brownish default opengfx ground tile set
19:13:35 <Alberth> HolyDragoon: "usable stuff" ?
19:13:55 <HolyDragoon> The... uh, does 'Rolling Stock' describe it accurately?
19:14:23 <Alberth> if you mean the vehicles, yes it does :)
19:14:36 <juzza1> i noticed the alpine too recently... before that i tried to use blunck's ancient alpine newgrf with bad results :D
19:14:41 <HolyDragoon> Yeah, the vehicles.
19:15:05 <Alberth> do you care for realism, or do you just want a good set of vehicles so you can build without worrying too much about the vehicles?
19:15:24 <Alberth> if the latter, I recommend to try NUTS
19:15:50 <HolyDragoon> I'm a bit of a train person, so I don't mind too much about few cars, but I like my game with several trams and trains.
19:16:21 <HolyDragoon> I find the Dutch Tram Set very cool for that, it's a bit of a change form the vanilla ones.
19:17:13 <planetmaker> Alberth, indeed, toyland chains are not mixed in opengfx+industries yet
19:17:20 <planetmaker> I guess that's a missing feature really
19:17:33 <planetmaker> And I'm happy that you like the alpine climate :-)
19:18:46 <HolyDragoon> Oh, that looks nice, thanks!
19:18:55 <planetmaker> Alberth, I assume you played with a recent head version of opengfx+landscape. Any... issues?
19:19:36 <planetmaker> If I don't get to give it a more thorough spin soon, I'll simply tag head as 1.0.0 and release it ;-)
19:20:01 <planetmaker> not before next Tuesday, though
19:20:11 <Alberth> other than a big lack of useful version indication in random downloaded opengfx+landscapes? :)
19:20:40 <planetmaker> I probably should name the files inside the tar
19:20:41 <Alberth> nope, no issues as far I can remember
19:21:07 <Alberth> the directory would be my preference
19:21:32 <Alberth> ie then you can do "unzip -x landscape.zip"
19:22:07 <Alberth> if only you could have two "landscape.zip" files in one directory :p
19:24:46 <Alberth> ogfx-landscape.tar.zip <-- apparently, unzip :)
19:25:14 <Alberth> I don't unpack tar files if possible
19:26:56 <planetmaker> ok, indeed there's no reason to do so
19:27:14 <planetmaker> ok... so... maybe the zip should simply contain a dir wherein the tar resides
19:27:19 <planetmaker> that would suffice, right?
19:28:02 <planetmaker> it would also suit me... as I usually build only bundle_tar during development... and that could still all be the same. Which then allows a simple "reload_newgrfs"
19:28:33 <planetmaker> (I know, not a good reason really)
19:35:55 <Ristovski> planetmaker: who the hell uses tar.zip
19:38:10 <planetmaker> .zip doesn't confuse windows people
19:38:25 <planetmaker> and .tar needs no unpacking for openttd
19:42:19 <Alberth> the zip has a dir around the tar? I'd prefer without that
19:42:59 <planetmaker> so no directory which is unzipped? Hm
19:43:10 <planetmaker> so a named tar filename... hm...
19:43:57 <Alberth> what about a date instead of a revision?
19:44:35 <planetmaker> well. Then better revision. The only reason I do use same filenames is that it's overwritten upon rebuild - without need to clean :-)
19:44:49 <planetmaker> thus the behaviour is mostly a result of my lazyness
19:46:12 <planetmaker> as openttd reloads the newgrf from the same file when you use "reload_newgrfs"
19:46:22 <Alberth> just (re)generate a link with a fixed name in a search directory at the end of the build?
19:46:24 <planetmaker> thus for the ease of development that's... VERY helpful
19:46:27 <Supercheese> Unless yer on Windows :(
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19:48:15 <Alberth> or more naughty, a rename of the directory ;)
19:49:03 <planetmaker> well. the cleanest solution likely would simply be like ogfx-landscape-r212.tar, right?
19:51:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25425 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2013-06-18 17:45:30 UTC)
19:51:48 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:51:49 <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 50 changes by siu238X, ww9980
19:51:51 <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 7 changes by siu238X
19:51:52 <DorpsGek> croatian - 32 changes by VoyagerOne
19:51:53 <DorpsGek> english_AU - 2 changes by mrtux
19:51:54 <DorpsGek> german - 9 changes by Jogio
19:51:57 <DorpsGek> Commit by fonsinchen :: r25426 trunk/src/station_gui.cpp (2013-06-18 19:32:58 UTC)
19:51:59 <DorpsGek> -Fix: highlight the right entry in the sorting selector in station view window
19:55:37 <Alberth> I'd like that, but it may break with evolve
19:56:41 <Alberth> revisions are starting to become meaningless :)
19:56:52 <planetmaker> oh. yes. they are
19:57:27 <planetmaker> ogfx-landscape-135:9b89d8a8cfcb.tar :-P
19:58:19 <Alberth> although... it gives a hint of order :p
19:58:29 <planetmaker> yeah, that was the reasoning behind
19:58:55 <planetmaker> but... looks quite ... hm, ugly
19:59:29 <frosch123> Alberth: nice explanation of the banking crisis
20:00:35 <Alberth> if all crisises with banks were that simple... :)
20:00:47 <Zuu> planetmaker: Not to mention that a colon in the name is problematic in windows (assuming you are going to publish that file)
20:00:48 <HolyDragoon> Oh, there's an active translator? nice.
20:02:28 <frosch123> Alberth: they were too afraid to close down the company, so they just kept pulling interest
20:04:55 <HolyDragoon> Strange, FF keeps saying it can't find the server.
20:05:25 <Zuu> I had to press ctrl+R for it to show
20:31:09 <Ristovski> planetmaker: hmm, the no data from server for X seconds dialog is annoying, since for the every new second, the dialog reopens with the updated value
20:31:15 <Ristovski> instead of just updating the value
20:33:08 <Ristovski> also, doing "refresh server" logs it as connecting and then disconnecting
20:33:38 <Alberth> planetmaker: is opengfx+landscape supposed to have alpine-ish climate in toyland? version 0.2.3
20:37:26 <planetmaker> in that version I allowed to use it everywhere I think. I think I changed it only afterwards
20:37:37 <planetmaker> especially funny in tropical :-)
20:38:50 <NGC3982> Who ever had this idea and went trough with it, shalt' have a thousand kisses.
20:40:48 <NGC3982> While playing with ECS or FIRS, it makes everything so, so much easier.
20:40:50 <Alberth> tbh, I got tired of being completely lost with finding industries that produced or consumed some cargo type in FIRS, so I fixed that
20:41:40 <Alberth> in fact, FIRS is the sole reason that window exists at all ;)
20:42:10 <V453000> honestly FIRS is very easy to get the hang of as it is very systematical
20:42:15 <V453000> unlike ECS for example
20:42:57 <Alberth> I don't play enough to see the system in FIRS :)
20:43:39 <Alberth> although the current decreased rate of changing could make that possible now :)
20:43:53 <Zuu> Lately I tend to get back to mostly playing with the original industries so that I can spend time playing the game rather than figuring out how the industries work.
20:45:23 <Alberth> yeah, I also play a lot with default industries, or with opengfx+industries which is not too different
20:48:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't actually played in quite a while
20:48:22 <V453000> well, those are also best :P
20:50:42 <Ristovski> Btw guys, is it just it Linux, or does OpenTTD not mute itself when minimized?
20:51:24 <frosch123> does ottd even notice that it is minimised
20:51:34 <frosch123> also, why should it mute if not paused?
20:52:42 <frosch123> i always disable sound in about every game; is it actually common to mute on minimize?
20:52:53 <frosch123> i would not know why it should do that in the firs tplace
20:53:08 <frosch123> sound effect muting makes no sense imo. that stuff is only muted when pausing
20:53:15 <frosch123> and mutnig music makes even less sense
21:01:36 <Ristovski> frosch123: what if you are just waiting for stuff and are afk
21:01:53 <Ristovski> frosch123: would be nice if you could minimize the window and it would stop the sound
21:02:03 <frosch123> i would not know why one would wait for stuff in the first place
21:02:11 <Ristovski> Alberth: what if you are waiting for something in-game
21:02:26 <frosch123> what are you wiating for in game?
21:02:58 <Ristovski> frosch123: zooming in on a empty area of the map works tho
21:03:12 <Ristovski> since it makes sound for thing only displayed on the screen
21:03:19 <frosch123> if you have to wait for money, you shuold start with a higher loan
21:03:49 <frosch123> leaving a game running unwatched is quite pointless, isn't it?
21:04:18 <frosch123> well, unless you do an ai competition
21:04:37 <Ristovski> perfect example on why to leave the game running
21:06:13 <MNIM> You could just mute the game through your OS
21:06:33 <Ristovski> MNIM: I don't know a way of doing that on linux
21:07:31 <MNIM> right click the speaker icon, go to sound settings and look for a tab called 'applications'
21:07:38 <MNIM> at least, that's how I do it in my distro
21:08:03 <Ristovski> but I need gnome/mate for that
21:08:38 <Ristovski> lemme copy the gnome-sound-applet from my ubuntu VM
21:09:29 <Ristovski> nvm, it's in my repos, and yes, that does work MNIM, but kinda time-wasting
21:15:12 <Ristovski> there isn't a way to uninstall online content, is there
21:40:15 <planetmaker> but I uninstall myself now from channel monitoring temporarily. good night ;-)
21:43:15 * NGC3982 notices how pm.exe get's stuck in Norton.
21:54:40 <Eddi|zuHause> "If you can read this something went wrong :("
21:55:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you didn't consider someone disabling javascript, you fuckwits
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