IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-05-31
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01:48:43 <Eddi|zuHause> "the first update to windows 8 will bring back the traditional start button"
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11:17:11 <samu> what is multi-threaded in ottd, is there a list for it, a topic?
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11:22:10 <samu> im trying to test something, to push cpu usage as high as possible with openttd
11:22:37 <samu> i'm able to get 24,99% peak
11:23:58 <samu> autosave + whole map screenshot
11:25:50 <Eddi|zuHause> that is how many cores?
11:26:29 <Eddi|zuHause> you can just press fast forward, you know
11:26:57 <Eddi|zuHause> so you maxed out 2 cores. great
11:27:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think there is much more you can do
11:27:20 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist may help :p
11:27:44 <samu> fastforward shows some kernel time
11:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause> time spent inside the windows kernel
11:28:39 <Eddi|zuHause> probably display stuff
11:28:48 <samu> with some pausing for autosave, red line disapears
11:28:58 <samu> and cpu goes down to 12.50
11:29:30 <samu> hmm not 12.50, apparenlty 14.60% sorry
11:30:18 <Eddi|zuHause> fast forward should probably implement some kind of framedrop
11:30:34 <Eddi|zuHause> so not every frame is drawn, speeding up some stuff
11:31:07 <Eddi|zuHause> that probably depends on the graphics driver
11:31:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and card capabilities
11:31:48 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of 2D acceleration like 8bpp palette animation is taken out of cards, because not much stuff uses it anymore
11:32:41 <samu> it's maybe windows aero?
11:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what that is
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11:41:40 <samu> it's the transparency effects on windows borders, the blurr when 2 windows are on top of each other, the preview-animated screen when hovering minimized applications
11:42:10 <Eddi|zuHause> kernel is driver stuff
11:42:16 <samu> when i hover on openttd minimized, i see it animating
12:03:03 <samu> hold down windows key, then tab to circulate
12:04:11 <samu> very funny to see, and every window is live-previewing
12:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> so basically it's windows' version of compositing
12:16:08 <samu> yes, I don't know what compositing, but i guess so
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12:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause> well, basically, every application writes its output to its own virtual screen, so the compositing manager can combine these outputs any way they want (mini-previews, transparency effects, wobbly windows, ...)
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13:24:59 <samu> but not the kind of crash that creates crash files
13:28:49 <samu> OpenTTD has stopped working
13:32:39 <samu> oops, sorry colosed windows by mistake
13:34:52 <samu> wait, i post a screenshot
13:36:14 <samu> it appears to have crashed during autosave
13:39:09 <planetmaker> make it reproducable, samu
13:39:28 <samu> OppenTTD has stopped working
13:39:30 <planetmaker> the "show us" should then happen in a bug report
13:39:42 <planetmaker> "has stopped working" doesn't qualify as show us
13:39:49 <samu> A problem made this program to stop working correctly
13:39:52 <planetmaker> it needs a step-by-step guide on crashing it
13:40:05 <samu> Windows will close the program and warn u if there's a possible solution available
13:41:10 <samu> I see a still image, it was autosaving
13:41:28 <samu> i see a newspaper, some AI celebrating stuff
13:41:45 <samu> which savegame do I provide u?
13:42:03 <zooks> crash.sav crash.log and crash.png would be a good start
13:42:26 <samu> I have autosave0 to autosave15
13:43:09 <samu> yes, but they're from 29th, it was the crash I reported 2 days ago
13:43:45 <zooks> which version are you using?
13:44:06 <samu> OpenTTD 1.3.1-RC1 for windows 64-bit
13:44:36 <zooks> so if you open autosave, it crashes?
13:46:18 <samu> the last autosave is exactly the same date as the crashed still image
13:46:27 <samu> should load the previous one?
13:47:31 <samu> nop, didn't crash either
13:47:51 <zooks> if you can not reproduce then it is hard to fix
13:48:55 <samu> i set up a game on arctic 2048x2048 with 15 AIs and fastforwarded
13:49:11 <samu> when I came back windows came up with the error
13:51:08 <samu> doesn't windows create a dump file?
13:51:34 <zooks> I don't know anything about windows. I never use it
13:56:59 <samu> i can't open skydrive... grrr my internet is too slow
14:03:02 <samu> windows events logged something
14:03:19 <samu> Nome da aplicação com falha: openttd.exe, versão: 1.3.1.25249, carimbo de data/hora: 0x51968462
14:03:33 <samu> Nome do módulo com falha: openttd.exe, versão: 1.3.1.25249, carimbo de data/hora: 0x51968462
14:04:13 <samu> Código de excepção: 0xc0000005
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14:13:55 <samu> there's another log, sec...
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14:43:43 <samu> do you know what is Event ID: 1000? then Event ID: 1001?
14:44:12 <samu> i'm trying to search on internet
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14:48:15 <samu> meh nevermind, think it's not related
15:03:13 <V453000> you seem to be a man of endless trouble :D
15:03:34 <Sacro> someone call for endless trouble?
15:03:36 <samu> yes, I was trying too look for a list of error codes
15:09:49 <samu> do you know what the error means?
15:10:01 <samu> I'm still unable to open skydrive to upload... :8
15:11:23 <planetmaker> samu: bug reports belong into the bug tracker. not line by line here
15:13:34 <planetmaker> ehm. if you have 111MB to upload... something's wrong
15:14:09 <planetmaker> an autosave of 111MB?!?!
15:14:19 <samu> no, 16 autosaves total 111
15:14:43 <planetmaker> why does it need all 16?
15:15:09 <samu> I don't know which one to send
15:15:18 <samu> the last one doesn't crash
15:15:23 <planetmaker> try to load. and see which crashes?
15:15:25 <samu> the previous than that doesn't crash either
15:15:45 <samu> but I hate to stop autosave
15:15:57 <Eddi|zuHause> make a copy of the directory
15:16:00 <samu> or they save on top of each other, how do i do this
15:16:02 <V453000> well you seem to hate many things :)
15:17:42 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, reads like an awesome bug report. No I don't recall such :-)
15:18:31 <samu> it doesn't create the autosave folder?
15:18:35 <V453000> Very Disappointed added a comment - May 31 2013 01:27:40 PM UTC Is that all? So blunt answers..
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15:20:25 <samu> fixed "autosave failed" error - it needs the autosave folder there
15:22:25 <planetmaker> that's why it was suggested to make a *copy*. And not to rename it
15:24:08 <samu> how long should I wait for each savegame to get an error?
15:24:31 <planetmaker> it's you who found the bug. How shall I know?
15:25:26 <samu> hmm these saves are 1 year and 11 months game time
15:25:40 <samu> it crashed within 2 years game time, ok let's wait
15:27:05 <zooks> keep saving it until it crashes
15:27:15 <zooks> then upload the save from right before..
15:28:54 <samu> oh wow... it crashed wow
15:29:01 <samu> wasnt expecting to crash again
15:29:25 <samu> so... about the same time period
15:29:52 <samu> that's the same time period infact
15:31:22 <samu> i dont know which savegame to provide, apparently it saves, then crashes right after
15:31:36 <samu> if i load the savegame, it doesn't crash asa
15:31:50 <planetmaker> samu, you now loaded an autosave. left it running for time X.
15:32:10 <planetmaker> thus provide that autosave you loaded, the instruction on how long to watch before crash. And the crash data windows gives you
15:32:15 <planetmaker> in our issue tracker
15:34:19 <samu> whiat is the reported version? there isn't 1.3.1RC1 to pick
15:35:33 <planetmaker> pick whatever and mention it in the report
15:37:09 <planetmaker> or reload the form and pick 1.3.1-RC1
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15:44:51 <samu> it is uploading... (hopefully)
15:45:00 <samu> unless my internet doesn't let me
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15:56:52 <samu> should take 20 more minutes if nothing fails
16:15:40 <samu> can't even do something useful
16:38:04 <samu> it uploaded on 2nd try, is the savegame file intact?
16:40:06 <samu> trying to attach screenshot image now
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17:41:05 <SineTheCreator> hi all. i've just installed openttd 1.3.0 on windows. it's been a while since i've played. anyways, i can't seem to get tooltips working; when i right-click on buttons nothing happens.
17:41:35 <samu> hover a tip and wait 2 seconds
17:42:16 <SineTheCreator> ahh. is there any way to remove the delay? i remember there being a setting for that in the old days
17:42:29 <planetmaker> in the adv. settings you find a... setting
17:42:39 <planetmaker> minimum is 1 second afaik
17:42:48 <planetmaker> or right click. but that doesn't work in a few cases
17:43:44 <samu> right click hides the tip in my case
17:44:18 <SineTheCreator> planetmaker: it's in the settings now
17:44:22 <SineTheCreator> i found it, thanks guys :D
17:44:37 <SineTheCreator> there is the option to do right-click for tooltips or a delayed hover of X seconds
17:44:45 <SineTheCreator> i wish you could do hover instantly though
17:44:58 <SineTheCreator> those tooltips are pretty useful when you haven't played for a long time :D
17:45:50 <planetmaker> especially the ctrl+click being explained which has a different effect in many places
17:49:21 <samu> "pan window when the mouse is at the edge" - this setting never worked right for me
17:49:45 <samu> it scrolls left or right
17:50:26 <samu> but up or down, only if the mouse isn't hovering the top and bottom bars
17:51:03 <glx> of course they are above the map
17:51:20 <SineTheCreator> is there any way to load newgrf's in a game that has already started?
17:52:35 <Pinkbeast> Yes, but you probably don't want to do it.
17:52:58 <SineTheCreator> okay. i'll just start over, thanks
17:53:24 <SineTheCreator> i love this game :D
17:54:47 <samu> could i move landscape toolbar when I move the construction toolbar if they're linked?
17:56:26 <samu> move in tandem, like they're only 1
18:09:12 <SineTheCreator> planetmaker: will do :D thankls
18:09:30 <SineTheCreator> one more question - i can't seem to access message settings to disable pop-up messages?
18:10:16 <samu> those settings moved to advanced settings
18:10:21 <SineTheCreator> ahh, ok. thanks
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18:11:37 <SineTheCreator> any way to disable mousescroll zoom?
18:11:43 <SineTheCreator> i'm using an hp mini with a finicky touchpad
18:11:56 <planetmaker> SineTheCreator, the adv. settings allow search ;-) use it
18:12:15 <SineTheCreator> nevermind, found it :D
18:12:35 <SineTheCreator> perfect, thanks!
18:17:30 <samu> eww isn't there a possiblity to change the refit + repay loan behaviour?
18:19:32 <Alberth> change the source code will definitely work
18:22:29 <samu> if I had' not repayed loan, they would refit and not stop
18:25:04 <SineTheCreator> anyone want to play online?
18:25:13 <SineTheCreator> i'd probably be a crappy opponent, but ... :D
18:25:42 <samu> but map size must be small
18:25:52 <samu> because of my connection
18:26:17 <SineTheCreator> okay. how small? 256, 512?
18:26:33 <samu> 64x64 seems to work, not sure about 64x128
18:26:34 <planetmaker> SineTheCreator, there's hundrets of servers online :-)
18:26:45 <SineTheCreator> planetmaker: i guess so, yeah.
18:27:50 <planetmaker> 128^2 for MP is a *real* challange. Starts to become one in single player even :-)
18:27:55 <planetmaker> depending on settings
18:28:12 <SineTheCreator> it's ... tiny, to say the least :D
18:28:24 <Pinkbeast> I find the main difficulty in single player is "oh, it's 1950 and I've done everything, what now?"
18:28:42 <samu> it starts downloading, then stops at about 16 KB dl'ed
18:28:46 <planetmaker> you definitely play maps < 256^2 differently than maps > 256^2
18:32:48 <samu> even refreshing server list feels sluggish
18:34:14 <samu> "don't move away down the list, u game!" - playing catch with a server :o
18:37:38 <planetmaker> hm. strange. NewGRF settings window does not respond to delete key. It rather catches and cancels it
18:42:23 <planetmaker> stranger then even
18:42:37 <frosch123> ah, i guess you have the cursor in the editbox :p
18:42:46 <frosch123> then the editbox get sthe delete ofc
18:44:02 <planetmaker> hm... might be my keyboard settings... as the ^ doesn't open console either
18:44:20 <frosch123> that would also be the case for cursor in editbox :p
18:44:22 <planetmaker> I should compare here with my workplace computer
18:44:32 <frosch123> anyway, do you have the editable newgrf window?
18:44:36 <frosch123> or the not editable?
18:44:54 <frosch123> as the not-editable window with no editbox seems to set the focus into the editbox envertheless :p
18:44:56 <planetmaker> not editable version of NewGRF settings. In MP game, yes
18:45:18 <frosch123> click in the list to unfocus the non-existing editbox, and it will respond :)
18:47:54 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25307 trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp (2013-05-31 18:47:49 UTC)
18:47:55 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Do not focus the editbox in the NewGRF window, if there is no editbox visible.
18:48:29 <samu> what if i check online content?
18:48:39 <samu> cursor goes right to tag name filter
18:49:21 <planetmaker> a quick and agile frosch. Despite temperatures
19:03:30 <samu> hey frosch, there is no crash
19:05:59 <SineTheCreator> how do i rotate airports?
19:07:30 <samu> it is Windows doing the crash report instead
19:10:03 <samu> I can locate the windows error report somewhere in windows event manager, I can attach that into the report
19:10:47 <planetmaker> SineTheCreator, you don't. Unless you play with the NewGRF OpenGFX+Airports
19:26:03 <samu> I found some crash log, that's generated by windows though, hope it's useful. I can't navigate to the memory dump file on my system, can you help?
19:26:50 <samu> it's a .mdmp extension, but windows doesn't find it
19:55:10 * Rubidium wonders how long it takes till NS cancels the Fyra/Albatros order now that the NMBS has cancelled it
19:55:33 <Alberth> they still didn't? :o
19:55:45 <Rubidium> nope... they are awaiting some report
19:57:07 <Alberth> obviously correctly mounted, gives troubles at all times :)
19:58:48 <Rubidium> I can't come to any other conclusion than that NS will have to cancel the order as well
19:59:53 <Rubidium> seriously... we have 9 Fyras of which 2 do not have that many problems that they can occasionally run some tests with them
20:00:26 <Rubidium> oh, and sorry Wolf01... but I reckon AnsaldoBreda will file for bankruptcy next month
20:05:13 <planetmaker> ui. Looking bad for them, I guess
20:07:07 <planetmaker> wtf, that report is a list of ridiculousness
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20:08:54 <Rubidium> interesting the Belgians only cancelled it today, and the Dutch might only do it next month, right?
20:08:54 <samu> AHA GOT IT!!! I ninja'ed the crash dump before windows deleted it.
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20:28:33 <samu> if those files are useless, then meh.. I can't think of anything else, sorry
20:28:48 <glx> samu: we need the files generated by openttd
20:29:47 <glx> openttd should show its own crash window
20:31:10 <samu> I know how it looks like
20:32:00 <samu> it happened on my report from 29th
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20:49:08 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25308 /branches/1.3 (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-05-31 20:49:00 UTC)
20:49:09 <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Backport from trunk:
20:49:10 <DorpsGek> - Fix: When overbuilding a reserved track with a non-track station tile, that tile would remain reserved and eventually trigger a crash upon removal [FS#5540] (r25251)
20:49:11 <DorpsGek> - Doc: Update some small parts of the readme (r25278)
20:51:21 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25309 /branches/1.3 (6 files in 4 dirs) (2013-05-31 20:51:15 UTC)
20:51:22 <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Update: some documentation
20:52:06 <samu> that's how it looks like when it crashed
20:55:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25310 /tags/1.3.1 (10 files in 4 dirs) (2013-05-31 20:55:48 UTC)
20:57:25 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25311 /trunk (3 files) (2013-05-31 20:57:19 UTC)
20:57:26 <DorpsGek> -Merge: documentation updates from 1.3
21:04:28 <Rubidium> blathijs, heffer_, Ammler: new release poke (tarballs there within the hour, I hope)
21:08:16 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.3.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices"
21:09:06 <samu> cool:) I will download in 2 hours
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22:50:33 <SineTheCreator> i went through all the trouble of creating a rail steel supply chain and then two of the three iron mines dry up just as soon as its operational
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