IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-05-11
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08:47:40 <Wolf01> damn... this night I played Minecraft, I took a lava shower and now I'm naked at 2000 blocks from home (where I slept the last time)
08:49:40 <Alberth> you do weird things in your weekend :)
08:50:45 <Wolf01> yes, I have this bad habit
08:53:41 <Wolf01> gah, a creeper unde the checkpoint tree.. I can't sleep :(
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10:17:44 <juzza1> how does NML determine vehicle IDs if they are not set in the item blocks?
10:19:16 <Alberth> quite likely by grabbing unused ones
10:19:59 <Alberth> if you care about assigned ID, I'd assign them
10:20:21 <Alberth> NML may change its policy, and horribly break your code
10:20:43 <juzza1> yeah i probably should
10:20:54 <juzza1> what is the first id if a disable all orignal trains?
10:23:36 <planetmaker> IDs start at 0, whether you disable or not disable orginal trains
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10:24:08 <planetmaker> There's actually little point in disabling them, if you define trains anyway. You could simply overwrite.
10:25:07 <planetmaker> only place where it is maybe a bit useful is, when people add the NewGRF to an existing game
10:25:12 <planetmaker> But then all bets are off anyway
10:26:05 <planetmaker> other than that NML keeps track of which IDs are assigned. And takes the next one, if no ID is explicitly stated
10:27:19 <planetmaker> If you do not assign IDs explicitly, you need to keep the order in which vehicles are assigned, or their ID will change. Assigning a specific ID explicitly in code is only needed, if you want to set backward compatibility explicitly
10:27:30 <planetmaker> which may or may not be a good idea
10:28:06 <planetmaker> you're not backward compatible, if you changed the length of any vehicle compared to a previous version
10:28:53 <planetmaker> thus in those cases you should break backward compatibility explicitly via setting the proper min_compatible_version in the grf block to the current version
10:32:59 <juzza1> i guess assigning the ids isn't really necessary then, for as long as new vehicles are added after the previous ones in the code
10:34:03 <planetmaker> yes, that should work. Alberth is right though, it cannot be 100% guaranteed, if NML internals change, but ...
10:34:15 <planetmaker> ... you have one thing less to worry about during coding then ;-)
10:34:32 <planetmaker> and as long as releases are bananafied, people get the correct version anyway
10:35:10 <planetmaker> (updating newgrfs generally is... prone with issues)
10:35:19 <planetmaker> updating on running games. but you know that :-)
10:35:41 <planetmaker> good for testing and developing. but not for playing
10:36:49 <planetmaker> yes, sure. When developing I update, change or so all the time
10:37:06 <planetmaker> But ... I know when that will not give the results. And I frequently also test in completely new games
10:37:50 <juzza1> yeah i usually just load a new game, sometimes you get pretty funny results though if you force the changes to a previous save
10:37:57 <oskari89> In one point, one of my games was so messy that i needed to put some 2500 trains to depot and delete them all
10:38:19 <planetmaker> exactly, juzza1 :-)
10:38:33 <planetmaker> oskari89, yeah. And that's when you actually can also start a new game really. IMHO
10:39:00 <planetmaker> as I'd then not trust the newly build trains either
10:39:00 <oskari89> That gives the opportunity for that in completely "clean" infrastructure
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10:39:14 <planetmaker> and after all I want to test the current version. Not some possibly corrupted thing
10:40:46 <oskari89> I hope that the heightmap extension could come some day to OpenTTD
10:40:52 <juzza1> but yeah just to recap, if a go through the route of no ids, then the only way to get rid of original vehicles is to explicitly disable them?
10:41:17 <planetmaker> I think so, yes, juzza1
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10:45:01 <Wolf01> I'm trying to figure out how to make a train pass in minecraft, the main problem is the lack of signals, and I unlinkely will put redstone all around the map
10:45:38 <planetmaker> can be helpful, if you want to go for defined IDs. Thus define them once in one place. And not care in all other places of your code
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10:57:05 <alluke> how do you do the beep
10:58:23 <alluke> @ nick doesnt seem to work
10:58:36 <oskari89> alluke: read the irc manual :P
10:58:47 <alluke> trid to find it yesterday
10:59:05 <Alberth> in particular, the manual of your client :)
10:59:25 <Chrill> but youre not using mirc
10:59:44 <oskari89> alluke: That earlier Dv15 tging
10:59:58 <oskari89> We decided that it needs to be that length
11:01:08 <oskari89> There's no other dimension changes than length
11:01:41 <oskari89> You can see that from that picture
11:02:31 <oskari89> Alluke: try the latest nightly of Finnish Trainst
11:02:48 <alluke> why is the eit called blue coach
11:02:56 <alluke> instead of express coach
11:03:18 <oskari89> "Sininen vaunu" in finnish
11:03:43 <juzza1> because the coder guy doesnt know the wagon specifics...
11:04:07 <oskari89> alluke: try Dr12 with some 20 Ome's behind it :)
11:04:33 <oskari89> Kind of nice consist
11:05:10 <oskari89> Doesn't accelerate very much when it's full, but it's kind of nice and realistic consist
11:05:44 <oskari89> Slowly climbing to about 90 km/h
11:06:04 <oskari89> With plenty of smoke
11:06:59 <oskari89> Or try pair of Dv16 :)
11:07:16 <alluke> i have 3 dv12s hauling soeks
11:07:19 <oskari89> With the second engine turned backwards, of course
11:07:49 <alluke> and they take good amout of time to hit 101
11:08:37 <alluke> what happened to that mockup sprite
11:09:35 <oskari89> Basically the Ome did get it's sprites modifed from Taimn
11:10:34 <alluke> why not use danmacks sprites
11:10:46 <oskari89> He had only that one sprite
11:12:31 <oskari89> Most of DanMacK's in-progress sprites are just one sprite :(
11:13:35 <oskari89> Don't know if he has more on his PC, i think so
11:15:34 <DorpsGek> oskari89: DanMacK was last seen in #openttd 11 weeks, 1 day, 20 hours, 56 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
11:19:28 <alluke> the blue should be nearly black
11:19:35 <alluke> and copy the bogeys from occ
11:24:17 <alluke> its way too bright atm
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11:24:38 <alluke> one or two shades darker blue
11:27:00 <alluke> it looks way brighter than those in the pics
11:29:31 <juzza1> make it darker and all views will look the same
11:29:43 <juzza1> the shadow side already uses the deepest blue available
11:32:35 <oskari89> alluke: Maybe you could do some heightmap?
11:32:51 <oskari89> For Finnish scenery, around "your" area?
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11:40:06 <oskari89> And follow my instructions on that post
11:44:49 <oskari89> Remember those height level scales
11:45:06 <oskari89> They _must_ be set correctly
11:45:17 <NGC3982> I just noticed that IKEA's espresso grind is fantastic
11:48:22 <NGC3982> Not to ruin your conversation or something.
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11:55:21 <alluke> tried recolouring the taimn using greyer shades
11:59:02 <alluke> but how does that quick one look
11:59:19 <juzza1> your colors are not in the palette
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12:00:35 <juzza1> use the color picker on your blues, they are not in the palette
12:00:41 <juzza1> cant use company colors btw
12:05:03 <NGC3982> That's exciting. No gridlines.
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12:24:22 <oskari89> alluke: Do post that on the DevZone after you're done :P
12:44:25 <alluke> ihttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/N%C3%A4ytt%C3%B6kuva%202013-05-11%20kohteessa%2015.43.16.png
12:45:58 <alluke> aint that the correct palette
12:47:40 <Eddi|zuHause> alluke: that doesn't look right
12:48:25 <__ln__> alluke: yeah, somebody should make a video out of it for the attention-spanly challenged people.
12:50:02 <Eddi|zuHause> alluke: he rants about nobody trying to optimise stuff in the windows kernel, because it's not a business interest. whereas people optimise stuff in the linux kernel for "fame and glory"
12:51:59 <alluke> but doesnt ottd support 32bpp colors
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12:52:19 <Eddi|zuHause> alluke: yes, but you need 8bpp sprites as well
12:52:48 <alluke> whats the problem in drawing 8bpp sprites in 32bpp colors
12:53:00 <planetmaker> palette conversion
12:53:12 <Eddi|zuHause> alluke: the conversion into 8bpp may not use any "magic" colours and stuff
12:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause> people often get that wrong
12:53:42 <alluke> 32bpp grfs work in newer ottd without any hassle
12:54:09 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, openttd automatically switches to 32bpp if the grf requests it
12:54:28 <oskari89> But mixing between those two in same grf... ?
12:55:42 <planetmaker> oskari89, nothing wrong with mixing them. Except maybe the artistic POV from making it fit look well together
12:56:06 <__ln__> barely noticeable difference in the screenshot above
12:56:19 <planetmaker> oskari89, indeed you can provide 4x, 2x, 1x 0.5x, 0.25x sprites in both 8bpp and 32bpp all in one newgrf
12:56:38 <planetmaker> I probably forgot the 0.125x zoom level
12:57:25 <planetmaker> (discover the alternative_sprites block :-) )
12:58:14 <planetmaker> baseline is though: you absolutely MUST provide 8bpp 1x zoom sprites
12:58:22 <planetmaker> everything else is optional
12:59:33 <alluke> one dropped production and other one disappeared
13:00:58 <planetmaker> play with opengfx+ industries and disable it
13:01:12 <planetmaker> at least I think it's feasible via parameter
13:04:03 <planetmaker> uh... all water sprites again re-generated... time for a 5 minute tea break :D
13:13:54 <__ln__> i didn't know australia is even playing hockey in the world championships
13:14:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't know there is a hockey world championship
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13:18:05 <__ln__> can't avoid hearing about it unfortunately.
13:19:43 <__ln__> sports is meant to keep the spectators focused on something irrelevant so they don't start causing real trouble.
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13:37:03 <__ln__> please no, keep this an ice hockey free zone.
13:38:51 <frosch123> what about non-ice hockey?
13:41:54 <__ln__> brockian ultra-cricket
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13:42:19 <frosch123> cricket is a finish national sports, isn't it?
13:42:36 <alluke> aint it played in intia and pakistan
13:43:15 <Mailaender> Cricket is very British?
13:44:11 <frosch123> yeah, i confused it
13:44:23 <frosch123> i meant some other sports, but i cannot remember the name :p
13:44:58 <LordAro> great fun - you get to throw lumps of very hard leather at each other at >50mph
13:45:08 <LordAro> if you're good, anyway
13:45:13 <NGC3982> Cricket feels very colonial
13:45:16 <Mailaender> I am currently searching for a solution. We have weekly builds for OpenRA and it annoys me to manually create those MFCs.
13:45:26 <NGC3982> Our university is filled with pakistani people, and thus - cricket.
13:45:42 <frosch123> ah, i meant curling :p
13:46:40 <frosch123> it also starts with c :)
13:48:28 <__ln__> "Brockian Ultra-Cricket is a curious game which involves suddenly hitting people for no readily apparent reason and then running away."
13:49:11 <LordAro> ah, Douglas Adams. Great man
13:50:18 * NGC3982 fills __ln__ with pan galactic gargle blasters.
13:51:18 <alluke> weird how ln isnt happy when his country succeeds in sports
13:52:20 <frosch123> alluke: he's a spy, he is actually hungarian
13:53:06 <alluke> does whois tell his spy name then? :P
13:53:33 <__ln__> alluke: success in sports results in anarchy on the streets.
13:53:53 <alluke> i was there in helsinki
13:54:33 <frosch123> helsinki 2011 - what kind of movie is that?
13:54:44 <frosch123> does it involve zombies?
13:54:57 <__ln__> the best part of it when the team returned to finland by plane, and were so drunk some of them couldn't properly walk out of the plane.
13:55:01 <alluke> but there were 100k people on the streets :D
13:55:14 <frosch123> duty free on board? :p
13:56:26 <__ln__> i don't want people to think professional sports isn't all about drinking.
13:58:12 <alluke> i didnt drink anything in 2011
13:58:37 <__ln__> i wasn't talking about you but the athletes.
13:59:41 <LordAro> in my experience, most of the 'famous' professional sports players never actually work hard
13:59:51 <LordAro> e.g. english premier league
14:01:05 <planetmaker> probably that's why German teams play in Wembley :-P
14:01:48 <planetmaker> they drank more ;-)
14:02:02 * LordAro doesn't actually follow football much at all
14:02:34 * planetmaker usually doesn't too much either. But it was kinda unescapable so far here
14:08:46 <alluke> dark chocolate with orange and crisps
14:09:17 <NGC3982> I'm so going to get sued.
14:11:32 <LordAro> did you make a rectangular phone?
14:12:40 <alluke> lovely weather outside and im wasting my life here
14:17:46 <oskari89> alluke: you took my word
14:17:59 <oskari89> Why i'm sitting here
14:18:31 <alluke> sucks to live in an apartment house
14:18:44 <alluke> going outside with laptop would be better than this
14:18:48 <NGC3982> I was uploading a few dj sets on Soundcloud with a pseudonyme
14:19:10 <NGC3982> I haven't really checked the copyright guidelines out..
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15:05:01 <MNIM> How did you specify the town names language again?
15:05:18 <Alberth> in the game options, a dropdown
15:12:04 <planetmaker> And if you want NewGRF townnames: first add that in the NewGRF settings. Then choose the or a townname set provided by that in the game options
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15:45:16 <MNIM> Alberth: Yeah, but that was all grayed out in a running game
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16:35:43 <Alberth> People really hate it when you suddenly rename all towns and cities
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16:47:37 <planetmaker> openttd also hates accessed null pointers ;-)
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17:45:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25234 trunk/src/lang/russian.txt (2013-05-11 17:45:09 UTC)
17:45:16 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:17 <DorpsGek> russian - 2 changes by perk11
17:48:04 <Alberth> one entire commit for you! :)
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18:08:39 <planetmaker> hm... my terrain file still had windows palette. What a pain to properly convert :S
18:08:59 <Alberth> write a Python script
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18:09:34 <frosch123> yeah, there are two dozen programs to convert palettes :) write a new one
18:09:43 <frosch123> personally i advertise ttdviewer :)
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18:10:05 <planetmaker> Alberth, NML auto-converts to DOS, whatever palette it finds (except if there's only windows input)
18:10:26 <planetmaker> frosch123, it does read and write zillion-layer gimp files? :D
18:11:16 <planetmaker> I actually use ttdviewer to check results :-)
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18:19:11 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: pikka was last seen in #openttd 7 weeks, 2 days, 9 hours, 36 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <Pikka> I do not want to watch a half-hour video for the one little piece of information I need and which probably isn't in there anyway
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18:32:49 <alluke> !oskari89 whats that talgo
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20:35:10 <alluke> why not work on something more important
20:36:01 <oskari89> I put that priority to low
20:37:30 <alluke> why did vr choose flirt instead of that
20:38:26 <oskari89> I think those were deciding factors
20:39:20 <alluke> flirt has shorter loading times
20:39:24 <alluke> and it looks better :P
20:39:54 <oskari89> Compare Edo to that Talgo22 cab unit
20:40:03 <oskari89> See any similarity? ;)
20:41:09 <alluke> but i liked the concept drawing more
20:41:20 <alluke> if only i could find it
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