IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-03-17
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01:08:04 <Pikka> orudge broke my wiki :[
01:22:26 <Pikka> 02 07 FF 89 1A 20 00 00 00 00 \2sto 1A 20 FF 00 00 00 \2rst 0C 00 FF FF 00 00 00 FF 00
01:22:32 <Pikka> seriously, what the hey NML?
01:50:40 <Eddi|zuHause> what are we looking at?
01:54:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: which property do you think is wrong?
02:10:50 <planetmaker> Pikka, you assume wrongly, I think, after reading OpenTTD's and NML's source. OpenTTD allows to define action0 with extended IDs. But there's a feature-specific ID limit which makes extended IDs somewhat pointless to use for most features
02:11:17 <planetmaker> Pikka, thus, the NML code using extended IDs for houses is correct, as NML also makes sure that you can't use more than 256 IDs in your newgrf
02:11:59 <Eddi|zuHause> the specs say B* for <id>, nothing about only for vehicles
02:12:54 <planetmaker> The code says that, too
02:14:20 <planetmaker> and NML knows the limits for features in nml/actions/action0.py:101
02:17:08 <Eddi|zuHause> "(houses and indtiles in principle allow up to 511, but action3 does not accept extended bytes)" <-- maybe this is what Pikka thought of?
02:17:23 <Eddi|zuHause> (and why was that not part of GRFv8?
02:20:08 <planetmaker> we need something for grf v9 ;-)
02:20:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure it will be forgotten by then again :p
02:21:57 <planetmaker> frosch keeps lists for such things usually :-)
02:22:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but he's not here :)
02:40:27 <Pikka> then why doesn't it work? :)
02:41:15 <Pikka> unless ID 00 and ID FF 00 00 are different? :)
02:41:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: so does it work if you change this?
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08:33:34 <OSN|GriGore> hello there, i want to start a server so me and some friends can join and have phun, but i have centos, [osn@gorehost ~]$ cat /etc/*-release
08:33:35 <OSN|GriGore> CentOS Linux release 6.0 (Final)
08:33:50 <OSN|GriGore> where can i get the centos server openttd ?
08:37:24 <__ln__> on an unrelated note, 6.0 is not up-to-date, so you're missing a number of security updates and stuff.
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08:48:39 <OSN|GriGore> i know, thats not a problem, the serv is not used, will update it ... i got generic linux, hope does the job for openttd serv
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08:55:57 <Alberth> for what it is worth, it does
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11:46:31 <heffer> hmm how far is the 1.3.0 release away? ottd fails to build on Fedora 19+ (GCC 4.8) and i'm wondering if i should patch or wait for the new release
11:51:50 <frosch123> the release date is likely the usual one
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13:04:16 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25089 /trunk/src (11 files in 2 dirs) (2013-03-17 13:04:10 UTC)
13:04:17 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Move CharSetFilter from QueryString to Textbuf.
13:04:53 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25090 trunk/src/textbuf.cpp (2013-03-17 13:04:48 UTC)
13:04:55 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Make editbox character filters also apply to pasted content from clipboard.
13:05:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25091 /trunk/src (textbuf.cpp textbuf_type.h) (2013-03-17 13:05:18 UTC)
13:05:25 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Call keycodes by their name.
13:05:51 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25092 /trunk/src (6 files) (2013-03-17 13:05:45 UTC)
13:05:52 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Deduplicate keyboard handling between console and editboxes.
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14:41:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25093 trunk/src/news_gui.cpp (2013-03-17 14:41:09 UTC)
14:41:16 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5486]: Clicking the statusbar crashed, when news were pending but no news were shown yet. (3298)
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15:07:08 <Tiku> Guys? Anyone know why openttd.exe tries to access searchindexer.exe after quitting the game? Firewall makes an issue out of it. Normal behavior?
15:08:20 <frosch123> ottd does not know about any searchindexer
15:08:32 <frosch123> when it exits it saves the configuration
15:08:48 <frosch123> if that causes your desktop search to update its index that an thing of your desktop search
15:09:24 <frosch123> no idea what that has to do with firewalls though
15:10:02 <frosch123> maybe your desktop search reports everything you do to fb or so
15:10:40 <Tiku> FW warns about unauthorized access on com interface at system32/searchindexer.exe.
15:11:23 <frosch123> well, ottd certainly does not do that :)
15:11:29 <frosch123> so, block it and see what happens :)
15:12:57 <Tiku> o_O guess so. Havnt given permission to do whatever it would like to do. Gotta dig up what's the purpose of searchindexer and maybe why it would activate.
15:18:16 <Alberth> it enables a "find your document on a phrase" feature, probably
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15:41:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r25094 /trunk/src (5 files in 5 dirs) (2013-03-17 15:41:40 UTC)
15:41:47 <DorpsGek> -Feature: Introduce dropdown for selecting the sort criterion in the town directory window (sbr)
15:42:56 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r25095 trunk/src/town_gui.cpp (2013-03-17 15:42:50 UTC)
15:42:57 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Immediately save the sort order of the town directory instead of when closing the window.
15:44:25 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r25096 trunk/src/town_gui.cpp (2013-03-17 15:44:19 UTC)
15:44:26 <DorpsGek> -Feature: Do descending sort order on population by default, and stabilize sort of equally populated towns.
15:45:30 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r25097 /trunk/src (lang/english.txt town_gui.cpp) (2013-03-17 15:45:24 UTC)
15:45:31 <DorpsGek> -Feature[FS#5288]: Add sorting on rating for the town directory window (based on work by sbr).
16:09:28 <andythenorth> diagonal rivers for 1.3.0? o_O
16:11:26 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r25098 /trunk/src/lang (61 files in 2 dirs) (2013-03-17 16:11:19 UTC)
16:11:27 <DorpsGek> -Change(r25094): Change the population string for other languages as well.
16:11:46 <andythenorth> I doubt they'll be in trunk somehow? o_O
16:11:53 <andythenorth> or are we changing how the game works?
16:16:22 <Eddi|zuHause> "we" are most definitely not including V's "rivers" in trunk :p
16:16:50 <andythenorth> so that just leaves the 'proper' diagonal option o_O
16:16:55 <andythenorth> what do I need to do?
16:17:23 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138 used to have some half-baked sprites, iirc
16:17:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and, of course, a patch :p
16:18:10 <andythenorth> he has lost more patches than I'll write in my lifetime :P
16:21:28 <Eddi|zuHause> my brain just exploded...
16:21:37 <andythenorth> I quite like the effect
16:25:14 <frosch123> looks like you have an obiwan
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18:13:56 <frosch123> so, i guess pikka only tested multiples of 20 :p
18:18:06 <Eddi|zuHause> EUnresolvedReference
18:19:17 <frosch123> he complains that high acceleration values cause the aircraft to not accelerate at all
18:19:31 <frosch123> while ottd actually uses (acceleration mod 20)
18:24:35 <V453000> tell him to code them as trains :>
18:25:06 <frosch123> not sure how aircraft would work as traisn
18:26:21 <Kjetil> to bad planes tax slow as hell ? :P
18:28:53 <frosch123> hmm, how about baggage conveyor belts as railtype?
18:29:01 <frosch123> V453000: would that suit your needs?
18:31:40 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25099 trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2013-03-17 18:31:35 UTC)
18:31:41 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5492]: Limit aircraft property 0D to 19, since the conversion result to km-ish/h needs to fit into a byte.
18:32:09 <frosch123> yay for mixing hex and dec in a single sentence :)
18:45:34 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25100 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-03-17 18:45:24 UTC)
18:45:35 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:36 <DorpsGek> english_US - 1 changes by Rubidium
18:45:37 <DorpsGek> finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
18:45:38 <DorpsGek> russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
18:45:39 <DorpsGek> spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
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20:00:59 <andythenorth> in ottd? how rare
20:01:33 <__ln__> yeah, well, not, in the sky
20:01:58 <Supercheese> nothernLights.grf
20:02:16 <andythenorth> probably features town replacement: nightclubs in manchester :P
20:07:09 <frosch123> hmm, so... is it plausible that the aircraft speed unit is not 8 mph as documented for 10 years in the specs, but actually 15/2 mph?
20:07:33 <frosch123> (resp. mph/8 and mph/7.5 for those who do not know how to do calculus with units)
20:07:56 <Supercheese> aircraft speeds are borked in NML
20:08:04 <Supercheese> when using the internal units anyway
20:08:04 <frosch123> who talks about nml?
20:08:21 <Supercheese> "100 mph" ≠ 100 mph in-game
20:08:43 <Supercheese> frosch: NML is the only grf-speak :P
20:08:55 <andythenorth> frosch123: totally plausible :)
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20:14:55 <frosch123> ah, the 8 mph unit is correct
20:15:56 <frosch123> it's just that the original planespeed of 1/4 is actually 15/64
20:18:38 <andythenorth> if anyone can translate in the next 40 minutes, I'll add them :P
20:38:59 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25101 branches/1.3/bin/baseset/opntitle.dat (2013-03-17 20:38:53 UTC)
20:39:00 <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Update: the intro game
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20:53:15 <V453000> there be a winner? :)
20:54:24 <frosch123> there was a strong disagreement between voters and devs
20:54:33 <frosch123> all devs voted for game 5
20:54:38 <frosch123> but it turned out last anyway
20:55:39 <V453000> sooo ... fuck voters? :D
20:56:20 <V453000> wait 05 is in nightlies :D
20:56:40 <frosch123> game 5 would have been the least work :)
20:56:46 <V453000> which one was first by voters? :) just curious
20:56:58 <frosch123> i think there will be an annoucement :p
20:57:01 <V453000> well I like the nightly one personally
20:57:38 <V453000> buuut having something different for stable is nice too
20:58:13 <Eddi|zuHause> ah i knew i forgot something...
20:58:22 <andythenorth> ho ho, my FIRS issue list is getting bigger not small
20:58:24 <andythenorth> that can't be right :P
20:58:49 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r25102 /branches/1.3 (15 files in 3 dirs) (2013-03-17 20:58:40 UTC)
20:58:50 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.3] -Backport from trunk:
20:58:51 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Limit aircraft property 0D to 19, since the conversion result to km-ish/h needs to fit into a byte [FS#5492] (r25099)
20:58:52 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Clicking the statusbar crashed, when news were pending but no news were shown yet [FS#5486] (r25093)
20:58:53 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Make editbox character filters also apply to pasted content from clipboard (r25090, r25089)
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21:02:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25103 /branches/1.3/src/lang (23 files) (2013-03-17 21:02:36 UTC)
21:02:44 <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Backport from trunk: language updates
21:05:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i smell an RC3 upcoming
21:05:53 <andythenorth> forums is logging me out every 15 mins or so, getting boring :P
21:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> cookie troubles?
21:10:20 <andythenorth> FIRS 0.11.0 done :P
21:14:01 <andythenorth> question: container trucks
21:14:12 <andythenorth> my BANDIT set design is now *really* minimal
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21:14:28 <andythenorth> are containers a subtype refit, or a new vehicle type?
21:14:39 <andythenorth> subtype refitting got better recently ;)
21:19:29 <Eddi|zuHause> container trucks: slightly lower capacity, but autorefit to everything?
21:20:26 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure how that relates to normal articulated trucks
21:22:13 <Snail> what kinds of cargo do you use containers for?
21:24:08 <andythenorth> in Squid Ate FISH, it will be express only
21:24:16 <andythenorth> give or take what I define as 'express' :P
21:25:37 <Snail> I also use containers for FIRS supplies in my set
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21:26:08 <Snail> for instance farm supplies could be tools that can be transported in containers
21:28:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean mail, goods, etc?
21:28:39 <andythenorth> hang on, screenshot
21:30:44 <andythenorth> not sure about petrol :P
21:30:54 <andythenorth> wrong screenshot :o
21:31:42 <andythenorth> mostly secondary cargos
21:32:27 <Eddi|zuHause> petrol and plant fibres don't quite fit in this list
21:32:48 <Eddi|zuHause> also, check how ECS cargos fit into that
21:33:46 <Eddi|zuHause> "plant fibres" is a cargo i don't really understand in general
21:34:03 <andythenorth> how do I make ECS work?
21:34:14 <andythenorth> I loaded all vectors, but only a few cargos appear
21:34:15 <Eddi|zuHause> order them by GRFID
21:34:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the town vector has to be first
21:35:14 <andythenorth> oops, don't change those on a running game :P
21:35:28 <Snail> yes and how about wood?
21:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Timber = processed wood
21:35:57 <Snail> that wouldn't fit very well in containers IMO...
21:36:06 <Snail> timber would be ok (more regular size) but wood?
21:36:25 <Snail> oh wood is not in the list :p I misread "wool"
21:36:27 <andythenorth> Snail: logs can be done, but meh
21:36:57 <Eddi|zuHause> not watching youtube tonight...
21:37:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the first video is blocked for copyfudge
21:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently it contains music
21:38:03 <andythenorth> ^ bulldozer going in sideways to a 40ft container
21:38:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and that is not allowed. it's VERBOTEN
21:38:51 <Eddi|zuHause> excuse me if i don't feel the same excitement about heavy machinery as you do.
21:40:28 <andythenorth> hmm youtube. there goes the rest of my evening
21:41:47 <V453000> 3 logs per container? :D LOL would not want to load that
21:43:04 <andythenorth> nice animation in ECS
21:44:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not familiar enough with ECS to see which cargos are excluded then
21:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause> but you left out mail
21:47:23 <Snail> gasoline in containers?
21:47:35 <Snail> wouldn't tanks be better?
21:48:47 <Snail> but then you'd have to change the visual representation on the ship (if any)
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21:57:49 <andythenorth> Snail: that is a good point :o
21:58:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r25104 trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp (2013-03-17 21:58:18 UTC)
21:58:24 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5507]: Allow changing GS settings in-game via the AI/GS config window.
21:58:40 <Snail> or just restrict liquid stuff to tank ships :) (water can be ok, if it's in bottles)
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23:35:03 <Core_Xii> what, in terms of the game engine and NewGRF capabilities, is the difference between bus stations and truck stations?
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23:35:23 <Supercheese> Bus stations are for RVs that carry Passenger cargo classes only
23:35:34 <Supercheese> truck stations are for RVs that carry other-than-passenger cargos
23:35:58 <Core_Xii> so NewGRFs cannot define trucks that carry passengers nor buses that carry cargo?
23:36:22 <Supercheese> any "bus" that carries, say, mail, becomes essentially not-a-bus
23:36:34 <Supercheese> you can define what you like
23:36:42 <Core_Xii> so what's the difference between the two?
23:36:51 <Supercheese> the RV will have to go to the appropriate station based on what cargo it currently carries
23:37:23 <Core_Xii> but I can define each type of station, what type of cargo it can handle?
23:37:23 <Supercheese> I have no idea what happens if you have an articulated RV with mixed passenger & non-passenger cargoes
23:38:05 <Supercheese> newgrfs can only change road station graphics
23:38:50 <Core_Xii> bus/truck stations are fixed to always handle passenger-class cargo and other cargo, respectively?
23:39:25 <Supercheese> also, I wonder if weird things would happen if your RV decides to autorefit to passengers while in a truck station, or autorefit to non-passengers while in a bus station
23:39:48 <Core_Xii> is there anything special about passenger class cargo? (other than this)
23:40:09 <Supercheese> town growth stuff
23:40:15 <Supercheese> requires passenger-class cargo
23:40:45 <Core_Xii> I recall the wiki saying that temperate towns grow as long as any cargo is transported near them?
23:41:15 <Core_Xii> "Town growth can be accelerated by loading and unloading at least one item of cargo at up to five stations within town influence within a two month period. It does not matter which cargos are loaded/unloaded."
23:41:15 <Supercheese> yeah, think it's custom town growth (i.e. other climates or game scripts or whatnot)
23:41:36 <Supercheese> also capacity multiplier is different methinks
23:41:45 <Zuu> There is a set of town effects. One of them is called PASSENGERS. Default passengers belong there but NewGRFs can define additional cargos that are included in that town effect.
23:42:33 <Core_Xii> can town houses be defined to generate any cargo?
23:42:49 <Supercheese> I haven't tried, but I don't see why not
23:43:13 <Core_Xii> can industry tiles change dynamically based on the industry's production amount?
23:43:36 <Supercheese> I think they can change dynamically based on any available variable
23:43:49 <glx> houses generate only passenger and mail
23:44:02 <Supercheese> glx: we're talking about newgrf houses
23:44:15 <Supercheese> that still true in grfs?
23:44:35 <Supercheese> "cargo_production (cargo_type * 256) + amount "
23:44:50 <Supercheese> specify some arbitrary cargo, eh?
23:46:12 <Core_Xii> the wiki doesn't list industry production as a variable that an industry tile can access, as far as I can tell. so I guess it's not possible?
23:46:58 <Supercheese> Hmm, maybe the production_level variable is unavailable to tiles
23:47:24 <Core_Xii> can industries change layouts dynamically? could hack tile changes in that way perhaps
23:47:34 <glx> so houses can produce anything
23:49:49 <Core_Xii> do you foresee any problems if electric rail was available *before* normal rail?
23:57:36 <Supercheese> Probably not technical problems. Might confuse players, though :P
continue to next day ⏵
