IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-02-14
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06:00:00 <__ln__> but they use helium, what a waste of natural resources
06:07:27 <Flygon> I'm more of a hydrogen guy myself
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06:30:43 <Supercheese> FAA probably won't let them use anything other than helium
06:30:49 <Supercheese> silly regulations
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06:54:27 <peter1138> less of a waste than bloody party helium balloons
06:59:03 <Pikka> partly balloons
07:00:55 <NGC3982> Morning.
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07:21:25 <andythenorth> mornings and pikkas
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07:22:33 <Supercheese> Bridges-over-stations not in trunk yet? :<
07:23:21 <Pikka> morning and y
07:25:28 <Pikka> duh, how do I pay attention
07:25:51 <Supercheese> Cash or check
07:25:58 <Supercheese> I don't think credit cards will work
07:26:00 <Supercheese> :P
07:26:05 <Pikka> I set a value to random 1,240 and then a couple of lines later clamp it to max 100.
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07:34:00 <andythenorth> :P
07:37:37 <andythenorth> "the rules have to change"
07:37:41 <andythenorth> really?
07:37:46 <andythenorth> blah blah blah
07:37:48 <Pikka> apparently
07:37:52 <Pikka> yes, that's what I said
07:38:34 <andythenorth> amendment to ToS: if those with root on the mysql DB think you're being a dick, they can remove your grf. Arguing will result in termination of your account and refund of all monies paid.
07:38:41 <andythenorth> otherwise
07:38:49 <andythenorth> good luck defining what's allowed and what's not
07:38:55 <Pikka> exactly
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07:39:29 <andythenorth> I don't like all this Daily Mail "Something must be done" crap
07:39:40 <Pikka> well
07:39:52 <Pikka> idiots gonna idio
07:40:20 <andythenorth> well
07:40:22 <andythenorth> yes
07:40:42 <andythenorth> someone has to
07:40:54 <andythenorth> otherwise there would be a worldwide shorrrrtage
07:41:00 <Pikka> yes
07:42:01 <andythenorth> then the price would rise
07:42:03 <andythenorth> terrible
07:42:11 <andythenorth> we'd have to have export restrictions
07:42:25 <Pikka> Idiot Weekly, Price 2d?
07:43:10 <andythenorth> cheap at twice the price
07:43:17 <Pikka> at least!
07:47:21 <Twofish> what are you talking about?
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08:01:47 <andythenorth> the global market for idiocy of course
08:01:55 <andythenorth> is there a shortage?
08:01:57 <andythenorth> a surplus?
08:02:03 <andythenorth> these are important questions of the moment
08:03:31 <Supercheese> I believe Einstein made the definitive statement on the idiocy market
08:03:38 <Pikka> better put it into my industry set
08:03:47 <Pikka> are idiots bulk or piece?
08:03:59 <Supercheese> hazardous
08:04:06 <Supercheese> there's a cargo class for that, no?
08:04:22 <Supercheese> bitmask(hazardous, livestock)
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08:04:59 <Pikka> transport idiots to the forum
08:05:07 <Pikka> produces large amounts of hazardous liquid
08:05:10 <Pikka> sounds about right
08:06:33 <Supercheese> bitmask(CC_HAZARDOUS , CC_SPECIAL)
08:13:30 <Pikka> mmm
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08:13:41 <Pikka> UKRS2 running cost code was 150 lines long
08:13:49 <Pikka> 10CC running cost code is 3 lines long
08:14:16 <andythenorth> but are they 3 really long lines? o_O
08:14:22 <Pikka> nope
08:14:25 <andythenorth> could chain a lot of advanced varact 2 :P
08:15:56 <Pikka> UKRS2 running cost code is incredibly "realistic", and has different code for steam, diesel and electric
08:16:22 <Pikka> 10CC is sensible, trains are cheap when they're not moving and expensive when they are.
08:16:55 <Pikka> overall outcome, probably 95% the same
08:17:06 <Pikka> in gameplay terms
08:17:35 <peter1138> KISS
08:17:52 <Pikka> ish
08:18:05 <Pikka> I wonder if my industries are simple enough :)
08:18:12 <andythenorth> cargo in, cargo out
08:18:23 <Pikka> too simple :P
08:18:39 <andythenorth> cargo in * wastage = cargo out
08:19:32 <andythenorth> for secondary, what have you been able to invent that's complicated? o_O
08:21:16 <Pikka>
08:21:22 <Pikka> nothing much
08:21:46 <Pikka> just the way it handles stockpiling and production rate, which is much smoother than the old version
08:21:51 <Pikka> also the way industries shut down
08:22:23 <Pikka> default secondary industries tell you 1 month before disappearing
08:22:44 <andythenorth> hah hah
08:22:46 <Pikka> mine tell you five years in advance, and if you establish good supply you can stop them closing down.
08:22:46 <andythenorth> awesome
08:22:53 <andythenorth> I can absolutely grief you in MP
08:23:02 <andythenorth> in which case you should stop playing with me :)
08:23:02 <Pikka> yes, you can
08:23:29 <Pikka> you can knock the bottom out of the coal market and decrease coal mine production across the map by funding more coal mines :)
08:23:46 <Pikka> however
08:23:52 <Pikka> my coal mines like to cluster together
08:23:54 <andythenorth> so the amount of production per map is relatively constant?
08:24:11 <Pikka> so there's a reasonable chance that the new mines you prospect will pop up next to the one I'm already serving ;)
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08:24:47 <Pikka> I don't know about constant, but yes, the industries all affect each other
08:24:55 <Pikka> you can also increase coal mine production by building power stations
08:25:18 <andythenorth> it's like a fake market economy
08:25:27 <Pikka> yep
08:25:28 <andythenorth> or a planned one
08:25:38 <Pikka> but a /lot/ simpler than I'd originally intended ;)
08:25:40 <andythenorth> capunism
08:25:49 <andythenorth> comitulism
08:26:17 <andythenorth> is it done yet?
08:26:21 <andythenorth> where is server?
08:26:25 <Pikka> :]
08:26:38 <Pikka> 2 down (except the graphics), howevermany to go.
08:26:53 <andythenorth> well why are you here talking to me then? :P
08:27:02 * andythenorth gtg anyway
08:27:07 <Pikka> me too
08:27:09 <Pikka> latarz
08:27:13 <andythenorth> next times
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08:28:54 <Supercheese> I implemented variable running costs, and just made the vehicles' running costs decrease to 1/4 when speed = 0
08:29:14 <Supercheese> Is that more or less what 10CC is doing?
08:31:19 <Supercheese> Oops, did notice people had left... I should sleep too
08:31:22 <Supercheese> 'night
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09:03:19 <peter1138> kamnet you are a fucking derp
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09:08:57 <__ln__> @seen kamnet
09:08:57 <DorpsGek> __ln__: kamnet was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 5 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <kamnet> I tried to create an 8k*8k map once. I gave up on the generation after 20 minutes. :D
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09:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> "Draap Trading Ltd is a Cypriot-registered company, run from the Antwerp area of Belgium, and owned by an offshore vehicle based in the British Virgin Islands. Draap spelled backwards is the Dutch word for horse."
09:44:05 <planetmaker> moin
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10:08:48 <MNIM> Eddi|zuHause: that sounds like it's got more behind it
10:09:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it's either a really crazy conspiracy theory or the key player behind the horse meat scandal
10:10:41 <MNIM> lol
10:10:59 <MNIM> that explains a lot
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11:06:09 <Pikka> there's a lot of it about, peter1138
11:06:10 <DorpsGek> Commit by matthijs :: r24991 trunk/src/table/settings.h.preamble (2013-02-14 11:06:01 UTC)
11:06:11 <DorpsGek> -Doc: Clarify comments regarding settings macros.
11:06:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by matthijs :: r24992 /trunk/src/video (sdl_v.cpp sdl_v.h) (2013-02-14 11:06:06 UTC)
11:06:18 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: [SDL] Make CreateMainSurface and PollEvent private methods instead of static functions.
11:06:25 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by matthijs :: r24993 /trunk/src (sdl.h video/sdl_v.cpp) (2013-02-14 11:06:12 UTC)
11:06:26 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Fix: [SDL] Improve 8bpp hardware palette support. Instead of always requesting SDL_HWPALETTE, it is now only done for 8bp blitters in fullscreen mode.
11:06:27 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - This fixes 32bpp blitters on 8bpp X11, which would only render garbage with SDL_HWPALETTE.
11:06:28 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - This prevents the colors of other applications from being messed up when running a 8bpp blitter on a 8bpp system.
11:06:29 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - When running a 8bpp blitter on an 8bpp system without SDL_HWPALETTE (e.g., in windowed mode), this uses a new shadow surface with color approximation.
11:06:30 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...)
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11:08:17 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Why is dorpsgek prefixing its messages with your name?
11:10:56 <MNIM> because TrueBrain.
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11:23:37 <Pikka> should've left that thread as blah blah blah :)
11:24:13 <andythenorth> oh goody
11:24:17 <andythenorth> it's now a wall of text
11:24:23 <andythenorth> can I have a cookie for predicting that?
11:24:41 <andythenorth> forums should enforce linebreaks after n words
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11:28:22 <andythenorth> MB is funny :)
11:28:48 <andythenorth> Pikka: change the title back, I am confused
11:28:58 <andythenorth> it currently suggests something useful, or even informational
11:29:05 <andythenorth> blah blah blah is more proper
11:29:52 <dihedral> hey hey#
11:34:11 <andythenorth> daylength
11:34:15 <andythenorth> blah blah blah blah blah
11:34:23 <andythenorth> how about
11:34:38 <andythenorth> a tool that decompiles a grf, multiplies all dates by (some factor), then recompiles
11:34:46 <andythenorth> done, done, donety done
11:34:59 <andythenorth> and ignore the real dates
11:35:55 <peter1138> heh
11:36:12 <andythenorth> the only valid argument I've ever seen for it is
11:36:18 <andythenorth> "I want to watch the trains for longer"
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11:49:08 <andythenorth>
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11:56:22 <Flygon> andythenorth: I have no idea if that link is NSFW or not
11:57:07 <MNIM> it's sfw\
11:57:07 <peter1138> depends how your workplace sees non-work-related urls
11:59:49 <Flygon> MNIM: I'm referring to the image macro examples near the bottom of the article
12:02:24 <Eddi|zuHause> not NSFW, double negative is an emphasis?
12:10:04 <andythenorth> the forum is currently heavy on walls of text, and light on kitten pictures
12:10:05 <andythenorth> more kittens?
12:10:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause can you oblige with photos of your cat?
12:10:28 <andythenorth> cats always cheer peoples up
12:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have any available on my computer, currently
12:13:01 <andythenorth> no camera?
12:18:19 <lugo> i'd find this image fitting vefore locking the thread
12:27:39 <andythenorth> hmm
12:29:52 <Pikka> hey guyz I have a great idea
12:29:55 <Pikka> let's fork bananas
12:30:23 <lugo> split!
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12:35:11 <Pikka> andythenorth, I should have kept it in gfx discussion
12:35:23 <Pikka> then I could change the thread title as often as I please. :)
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12:40:13 <andythenorth> well, it's more interesting than BBC news at any rate
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12:48:04 <andythenorth> herp
12:48:16 <andythenorth> so shall I put a 'fake time' parameter into Squid then?
12:48:23 <andythenorth> not hard :P
12:48:43 <andythenorth> 1x 2x 4x
12:49:16 <Pikka> oh, a shipspeed parameter? :)
12:49:32 <Pikka> 1x 1.5x 2x, I'd say.
12:50:41 <andythenorth> I was thinking of fake intro dates :P
12:50:48 <andythenorth> for these daylength nerds :)
12:50:56 <andythenorth> I liked eddi's patch best for daylength
12:50:58 <Pikka> oh, I thought that's what you may have meant
12:50:59 <andythenorth> it was super awesome
12:51:02 <Pikka> and no, you should not
12:51:08 <andythenorth> ok
12:51:10 <Pikka> but shipspeed is a reasonable idea
12:51:14 <andythenorth> everyone can just use eddi's patch
12:51:19 <andythenorth> shipspeed smells of wee
12:51:23 <Pikka> I'm a little worried how my industries will go with ships... but I guess we'll find out
12:51:29 <Pikka> FINE
12:51:30 <Pikka> don't then
12:51:35 <andythenorth> 38mph barge
12:51:35 <Pikka> goodnight
12:51:38 <andythenorth> :)
12:51:44 <Pikka> turbobarge
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12:51:48 <andythenorth> wake
12:51:53 <MNIM> supersonic ships!
12:52:16 <MNIM> heck, maglev supertankers!
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13:07:08 <peter1138> who what where
13:10:20 <MNIM> the british queen! porno! in a basement!
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13:59:42 <andythenorth>
14:00:47 <peter1138> pom te pom te pom
14:02:50 <peter1138> Sign up for quick access to this article
14:02:50 <peter1138> Already registered? Sign in
14:02:50 <peter1138> World’s fastest container ships mothballed
14:02:52 <peter1138> hmm?
14:03:07 <peter1138> what's this, the simuscape of news?
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14:09:44 <planetmaker> that's the new financing model of the FT... signup and get some for free. Pay for increased usage
14:12:23 <Flygon> It's called Australian internet
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14:17:52 <Belugas> hello
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14:22:07 <Flygon> Hi
14:38:53 <Eddi|zuHause> random idea: a town-type "village" that has no growth, and "upgrade to town" and "upgrade to city" option (very expensive)
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14:58:11 <andythenorth> eh?
14:58:20 <andythenorth> peter1138: that story was free for me, first time :P
14:58:22 <andythenorth> silly FT
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15:00:55 <V453000> andythenorth: do you have any checks in firs like "if newgrf = newbridges, use spriteset X, else use spriteset Y" ?
15:01:10 <andythenorth> sprites specific to other newgrfs?
15:01:13 <V453000> I see only incompatible stuff and if (check for setting
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15:01:26 <V453000> yeah I need a little bit different overlays on bridges
15:01:39 <andythenorth> no, generally I would say, fuck that
15:01:39 <V453000> I found this
15:01:43 <andythenorth> but bridges are different
15:01:57 <V453000> can something like if (climate == ... be converted to grf == ?
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15:04:33 <V453000> with like output to different spritesets
15:06:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: typically, sites like these offer the story "for free" when you open it through a google referrer, but from other referrers it will show the paywall
15:06:22 <andythenorth> how lame
15:09:25 <andythenorth>
15:09:30 <andythenorth> 46knot, 150t cargo
15:09:36 <andythenorth> it's a bit *too* good
15:09:49 <andythenorth> that's 52mph
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15:19:26 <peter1138> DID YOU KNOW
15:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause> NO I DID NOT
15:19:42 <peter1138> I THOUGHT NOT
15:19:45 <V453000> I DIDNT EITHER
15:25:54 <andythenorth> I DID
15:26:08 <V453000> OH
15:28:41 <V453000> wtf are we talking about btw peter1138
15:28:50 <andythenorth> DON'T YOU KNOW?
15:29:00 <V453000> NO
15:29:03 <V453000> IM LOST
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15:35:04 <planetmaker> V453000, you can, of course, set a global variable to one value or another depending on the presence or absence of a certain NewGRF
15:35:13 <planetmaker> And then use that global variable to show one spriteset or another
15:35:32 <planetmaker> But then you also want to make sure to test NewGRF order and not just NewGRF presence ;-)
15:35:39 <V453000> global variable :o
15:36:05 <V453000> uhm ... what is that? :D
15:36:12 <planetmaker> is_newgrf_present = will_be_active(GRFID) or something like that
15:36:20 <planetmaker> and then use is_newgrf_present later on
15:36:49 <V453000> oh
15:36:57 <V453000> I will try something thanks
15:39:42 <planetmaker>
15:39:51 <planetmaker> selecting tree sprite depending on other grf's presence
15:40:13 <V453000> excellent, thank you
15:40:43 <V453000> right and the tree_base_sprite is then used somewhere like in forests
15:41:07 <planetmaker> yes
15:41:45 <V453000> :)
15:42:09 <planetmaker>
15:42:32 <V453000> yarr
15:43:07 <V453000> can the GRF ID shown in the game be used?
15:43:20 <V453000> for newbridges that is 535A0501
15:43:26 <planetmaker> what do you mean?
15:43:31 <V453000> or do I need to convert that somehow?
15:44:06 <V453000> you have if (grf_future_status("\4D\66\6F\01")) { format
15:44:18 <planetmaker> that's the way you need to write it, yes
15:44:26 <planetmaker> \53\5A\05\01
15:44:26 <V453000> alright
15:44:37 <V453000> so \53\5A...
15:44:43 <V453000> superb :) thanks
15:44:53 <andythenorth> deletey
15:47:50 <andythenorth> calling other people dicks makes me a dick too
15:47:59 <andythenorth> let's not do that :P
15:49:10 <V453000> no you have a strong point there
15:49:40 <V453000> because that is the closest description of the problem there is so far
15:49:43 <V453000> people being dicks
15:49:45 <V453000> is all
15:52:24 <andythenorth> reliability
15:52:50 <V453000> breakdown imminent?
15:53:06 <andythenorth> just wondering
15:53:17 <andythenorth> about making hovercraft unreliable, due to being too fast
15:53:24 <andythenorth> but then...breakdowns off
15:53:29 <V453000> uhmmm you play with breakdowns?
15:53:34 <andythenorth> so I never bother setting reliability
15:53:46 <V453000> reliability is not a factor andy :)
15:53:58 <V453000> I guess all you can do is reducing capacity for ships?
15:54:30 <andythenorth> capacity & speed are the only two stats that really matter
15:54:36 <V453000> yeah
15:54:41 <andythenorth> reliability, cost, running cost are all pointless
15:54:42 <V453000> sucks :) RAIL SHIPS
15:54:50 <andythenorth> strange that we broke the game so much eh?
15:55:28 <V453000> not really that is how the game always was, you either make profit or you dont, how much is just a matter of time you are willing to wait
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16:05:37 <planetmaker> andythenorth, even when you (and me and V) play w/o reliability it does make sense to make it a valuable property for those who play with it
16:05:59 <andythenorth> I play with breakdowns on sometimes
16:06:16 <planetmaker> then you definitely should put that into your consideration
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16:07:44 <SAC> Hi all... do you have an OpenTTD dev around here right now?
16:08:06 <Eddi|zuHause> we have plenty of devs around here, but they only respond to real questions
16:08:30 <SAC> What's that suppose to mean?
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16:08:35 <andythenorth> hi SAC
16:08:43 <kormer> You have to fill out a captcha first before asking questions.
16:08:43 <SAC> Hi andy! :)
16:08:57 <SAC> Okey, sorry to bother you...
16:09:06 <Eddi|zuHause>
16:09:09 <andythenorth> what was the question?
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16:10:07 <V453000> gg
16:10:22 <Eddi|zuHause> that was... unhelpful, i suppose :p
16:10:38 <andythenorth> :rolleyes:
16:10:43 <V453000> anyway, pm: I have this ... is the #define a makefile (or that evil non-windoze stuff) thing or is there a way around it and am I making something horribly wrong?
16:11:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that define doesn't make any sense
16:12:08 <V453000> =( sad panda
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16:12:44 <V453000> lets see if I understand it (apparently not but ye) .. I define a variable bridge_overlay_stuff, which I add a value and then eventually change the vlue with the if?
16:12:47 <Eddi|zuHause> "#define X Y" is a pre-processor directive that says "whenever X stands in the below code, treat it like Y would stand there"
16:12:58 <V453000> o
16:14:09 <andythenorth> hmm
16:14:11 <andythenorth> CPP
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16:15:24 <peter1138> if (reliability_is_not_set_by_andy_the_north) refuse_to_load_grf(bad_gameplaY)
16:15:43 <andythenorth> make it part of the ToS
16:15:45 <V453000> :D
16:16:00 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: remove all GRFs from bananas which don't utilize reliability correctly
16:16:02 <V453000> if trains <3000, deactivate newGRF (not enough madness)
16:16:03 <peter1138> there's no ToS for loading newgrfs
16:16:14 <andythenorth> peter1138: well there fucking should be :o
16:16:18 <andythenorth> oops
16:16:20 <andythenorth> sweary day
16:17:00 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: so the #define is outright wrong
16:17:07 <planetmaker> V453000, just replace the line with #define by
16:17:16 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: yes
16:17:17 <planetmaker> bridge_overlay_stuff = 0
16:17:20 <V453000> o
16:17:26 <SpComb> playing with breakdowns on peter's server wasn't really that bad as such
16:17:36 <planetmaker> you cannot use #define w/o use of gcc preprocessor in this context
16:17:38 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: define is not what you want to do
16:18:02 <SpComb> but being offline while others were playing meant that your trains were always 50 years old and breaking down every five tiles once you returned to the game..
16:18:11 <planetmaker> and probably you want to use
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16:18:15 <andythenorth> it was good for beating Flherne
16:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you "define" a named parameter by assigning a value to it, like in the line below
16:18:21 <andythenorth> all his trains got slow
16:18:27 <planetmaker> bridge_overlay_stuff = 1 two lines further down
16:18:34 <planetmaker> and then in the actual spritesheet use like
16:18:47 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if you can assign a spriteset to a parameter, though
16:19:18 <planetmaker> sprite: (bridge_overlay_stuff ? value for grf present : value for grf not present)
16:19:29 <planetmaker> (if you use default sprites)
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16:19:38 <V453000> I tried and it says error at 356 which is line 4 in the paste
16:19:41 <Eddi|zuHause> nmlc will probably blow up in your face if it's not allowed :)
16:19:46 <planetmaker> if you use your custom spritesets, you can use that variable in a switch decision like any other variable
16:20:17 <V453000> right
16:22:54 <V453000> should be there anything after the sprite(bridge_overlay_stuff ? canalrails_bridge_surfaces_newbridges : canalrails_bridge_surfaces_original) ?
16:23:03 <V453000> if I put ; there ,it sez unexpected token ;
16:23:38 <V453000> oh that doesnt ask about the newgrf anyhow
16:23:39 <V453000> zz
16:24:02 <Eddi|zuHause> you miss a )
16:24:16 <Eddi|zuHause> oh no, there it is
16:24:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea, this is not a magic i have used before
16:25:10 <V453000> sense this makes ? says unexpected token ; at the ternary thingy line
16:25:13 <planetmaker>
16:25:49 <V453000> how simple it is .. :)
16:25:58 <V453000> as always, getting lost in it ... thanks pm :)
16:26:56 <planetmaker> yw :-)
16:27:26 <planetmaker> anyway... gotta go. See you (much) later or tomorrow
16:27:34 <V453000> :) bai
16:29:12 <V453000> hm, what could the grf_present stand for in the switch block
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16:30:07 <V453000> omfg kill me
16:30:09 <V453000> just do
16:30:56 <V453000> nmlc crunching it now :) so happily
16:33:24 <V453000> no way it works :D
16:33:45 <V453000> congratulations, you led the idiot to success again ... thank you :)
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17:04:07 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24994 /trunk/src (12 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-14 17:04:01 UTC)
17:04:08 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Replace access to service_interval with accessors (peter1138)
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17:06:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24995 /trunk/src (10 files in 3 dirs) (2013-02-14 17:06:49 UTC)
17:06:56 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Add flags to vehicle service interval for custom & ispercent (peter1138)
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17:09:01 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24996 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-14 17:08:56 UTC)
17:09:02 <DorpsGek> -Change: Apply default service interval changes to vehicles without custom interval (peter1138)
17:11:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24997 /trunk/src (3 files in 3 dirs) (2013-02-14 17:11:42 UTC)
17:11:49 <DorpsGek> -Change: Use dropdown list to select between Default/Days/Percentage (peter1138)
17:12:26 <andythenorth> ho ho ho
17:12:33 <andythenorth> shall we just bin the web interface to Bananas?
17:12:51 <andythenorth> [the public list of content]
17:13:04 <andythenorth>
17:25:01 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24998 /trunk/src (10 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-14 17:24:55 UTC)
17:25:02 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5137]: Set vehicle's service interval is percent flag appropriately on creation (peter1138)
17:29:55 <peter1138> new rage against the machine song
17:29:59 <peter1138> "committing in the name of"
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17:33:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: why?
17:34:57 <frosch123> why did eddi post such nonsense in my topic?
17:35:07 <frosch123> this is no shunting
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17:35:20 <frosch123> all vehicles in the consist stay in their place
17:35:31 <frosch123> else we have the same complex nonsense as the old reverse flag hack
17:36:02 <frosch123> engines running around a consist, lol? how do you imagine this should work with two engines in the consist?
17:36:09 <frosch123> do you want to add the whole consist to the orders?
17:37:02 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i'm posting this because your patch is a solution to the wrong problem
17:37:32 <frosch123> the patch is meant for dual headed consists
17:37:37 <frosch123> not for shunting steam engines around
17:38:13 <andythenorth> frosch123: it literally is just permitting going backwards yes?
17:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and that is the problem :)
17:38:30 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: shunting is silly
17:38:36 <frosch123> you can barely define it for a single engine
17:38:44 <peter1138> frosch123, yeah, i find i get annoyed when i ask something and they reply about something completely different too :S
17:38:50 <frosch123> so it limits gameplay and turns ottd into a realism game
17:38:57 <frosch123> worst feature ever, i would say
17:40:48 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i know how it works in my head. it's not that complicated... let me try to phrase it in words
17:40:58 <Terkhen> hello
17:45:59 <peter1138> frosch123, first step, remove the flag, second step, don't commit your patch because it "is just useless", third step, ignore them
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18:01:45 <andythenorth> frosch123: do I misunderstand? Does the reverse patch *require* an articulated vehicle?
18:01:51 <andythenorth> or just a flag on a vehicle?
18:04:19 <frosch123> no?
18:04:37 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i hope that is clearer now...
18:04:55 <frosch123> when i mention articulated parts i only want to point out that articulated parts of engines also count as engines
18:05:04 <frosch123> (while they normally would not)
18:07:30 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: do you realise how complex your suggestion is? and that it completely breaks newgrfs defining graphics depending on the position in the consist?
18:07:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yes-ish
18:08:15 <andythenorth> so I can build some engine
18:08:17 <Eddi|zuHause> but my opinion is that without this, the feature is worthless
18:08:22 <andythenorth> and put a cabbage and the end of the train
18:08:27 <andythenorth> and it will just go backwards
18:08:38 <andythenorth> no need to faff about shuffling newgrf graphics around
18:08:48 <peter1138> andythenorth, something like that
18:08:49 <andythenorth> and / at /s
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18:09:01 <andythenorth> I don't make trains, so my opinion is worthless
18:09:03 <peter1138> but people conflate reversing with some form of shunting
18:09:23 <andythenorth> to me this seems like a way to save newgrf authors writing a whole lot of code
18:09:32 <andythenorth> while adding a teeny-tiny gameplay benefit
18:10:01 <peter1138> personally i find terms like "useless" and "worthless" pretty offensive... and i didn't even write it
18:12:39 <andythenorth> it's definitely fun around here at the moment :)
18:13:25 <andythenorth> a happy place
18:14:23 <peter1138> i guess it would work if you removed though 4x variables
18:14:38 <peter1138> want a different look? use a different id... heh
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18:17:01 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the newgrf stuff can be solved by passing to the newgrf the data how the consist was arranged in the depot, instead of how the consist is arranged currently
18:17:52 <frosch123> if you think that is correct
18:17:54 <Eddi|zuHause> that is in the same spirit as how you keep the old "train was flipped an odd number of times" flag in case of the old behaviour
18:18:00 <frosch123> why would the newgrf not want to access the current layout?
18:18:40 <frosch123> i think you should draw some non-trivial examples, and then realise that the whole suggestion is nonsense
18:18:52 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the newgrf could deduce the current layout by reading the "goes backwards" flag that you introduced, and which backwards-method is applied
18:21:03 * andythenorth bbl
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18:49:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24999 /trunk/src/lang (60 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-14 18:49:11 UTC)
18:49:25 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:49:26 <DorpsGek> english_US - 4 changes by Rubidium
18:49:27 <DorpsGek> french - 4 changes by glx
18:49:28 <DorpsGek> greek - 156 changes by Evropi
18:49:29 <DorpsGek> spanish - 5 changes by Terkhen
18:49:30 <DorpsGek> swedish - 9 changes by Joel_A, Zuu
18:49:50 <Superuser> last 500 strings!
18:49:58 <Superuser> had even more amazing progress yesterday
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18:50:24 <Superuser> actually it may have counted as today, as I was translating late into the night, hence the 156 changes
18:50:39 <Superuser> (I change a lot of strings, but probably not the majority of the ones I go through)
18:51:04 <Superuser> also continuous integration ftw
18:51:24 <Zuu> afaik it show the number of strings that were changed since last sync to svn.
18:51:42 <Zuu> Eg. the last 24 hours.
18:52:12 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25000 branches/1.3/ (2013-02-14 18:52:05 UTC)
18:52:13 <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Branch: time to get this thing done and do some new stuff in trunk
18:52:19 <Superuser> oh okay, 24 changes yesterday
18:52:24 <Superuser> I just checked the svn myself
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18:52:31 <Wolf01> hi o/
18:53:19 <Superuser> and 53 changes 3 days ago
18:53:22 <Superuser> damn I'm good
18:53:38 <Superuser> still, I've probably had more productive periods, but then again, the effort is almost over
18:53:42 <Zuu> Happy 25k :-)
18:53:47 <Superuser> this will be my finest work yet :D
18:54:13 <Superuser> (my OSS translation credentials:
18:56:11 <Supercheese> r25k is 1.3.0 eh?
18:56:49 <Superuser> that said though I have built up a backlog of ~200 strings that need to be checked. Occasionally their original English strings may have to be changed, which is a long and arduous process
18:56:52 <Superuser> sigh
18:56:56 <Terkhen> nope, just the branch
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18:58:07 <Superuser> >svn branching
18:58:10 <Superuser> are you a wizard
18:58:11 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25001 /trunk (9 files in 6 dirs) (2013-02-14 18:58:04 UTC)
18:58:12 <DorpsGek> -Change: heading for 1.4 now
18:58:19 <Superuser> rotfl
18:59:43 <joey8> anyone know how to stop those annoying "Message from the manufacturers" please
19:00:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: no, r25k is just splitting the development version from the testing version, which means one of the next commits to that branch will be 1.3.0-RC1
19:00:15 <Superuser> why is vim under windows such a piece of ass
19:00:17 <Superuser> aaarrghhh
19:01:08 <Supercheese> I see
19:01:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: whereas trunk can now move forward with experimental patches, not affecting the testing version's feature freeze (e.g cargodist or more height levels)
19:01:38 <Supercheese> Indeed
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19:02:10 <Supercheese> and Bridges-over-stations :)
19:03:32 <Eddi|zuHause> and for the record, you guys drive me mad with the 5 letter common prefix...
19:04:15 <Eddi|zuHause> (not as mad as people with the same colour talking to each other, though)
19:04:34 <Zuu> Superuser: because you screwed up
19:04:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never had a problem with vim under windows...
19:05:16 <Eddi|zuHause> (or i can't remember)
19:05:28 <V453000> I have never had a problem
19:05:54 <Zuu> The only "issue" I had was to figure out where to put my .vimrc and .gvimrc files.
19:06:20 <Zuu> And that the installer diddn't include the themes that I like so I had to get a theme pack manually.
19:06:45 <Zuu> But both are minor things that can be sorted out.
19:07:06 <Eddi|zuHause> can anyone decipher this message?
19:07:50 <Zuu> Hmm, a link to show unread with a post hashtag. How is that going to work?
19:07:51 <Eddi|zuHause> (i'm guessing it's an automatic translator failure)
19:08:10 <frosch123> joey8: update to 1.3 beta
19:08:17 <frosch123> it has some improvements in that area
19:08:26 <frosch123> you are only offered engines, if you already have similiar ones
19:08:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: no idea, i just copied the link that the forum gave me
19:08:32 <joey8> frosch123➤ ah ha ok thankyou
19:08:55 *** pugi has joined #openttd
19:09:01 <Zuu> For me that give me page 146 in that thread as that is aparently the first new page for me.
19:12:18 <V453000> OMG pikka also has open wagon livestock :DD <3
19:12:19 <V453000> animalz
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19:21:48 <Superuser> should industry names have genders?
19:22:09 <Superuser> also, they are not pluralised anywhere are they?
19:22:18 <Superuser> nah they ain't, otherwise they'd be marked as such derp
19:22:21 <Superuser> so should they?
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19:23:14 <Superuser> What about town buildings? They definitely not, right?
19:23:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the german industry names have geners male/female/neutral/plural
19:24:10 <Eddi|zuHause> *genders
19:24:24 <Superuser> okay
19:24:32 <Eddi|zuHause> (m/w/n/p)
19:24:36 <Superuser> so add plural too? the english originals don't have plural
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19:24:59 <Superuser> and plural is not listed for Greek, only m/f/n
19:25:12 <Eddi|zuHause> it's mainly for the founding news message
19:25:26 <Superuser> That still means it's important
19:25:31 <Superuser> should I add plural to greek via the config page?
19:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause> "new forest is planted" but "new oil wells are opened"
19:25:44 <Superuser> or just use {P x y}
19:26:05 <Eddi|zuHause> no, because P needs a number
19:26:18 <Eddi|zuHause> which you don't have, so it won't work
19:26:20 <Superuser> ffuuuu
19:26:42 <Superuser> so we need a p gender I guess?
19:26:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the plural gender worked out very well for german
19:27:37 <Superuser> okay.jpg
19:28:00 <Superuser> dang
19:28:00 <Superuser> this is a disaster
19:28:00 <Superuser> now I'll have to find all the places industry names are used
19:28:00 <Superuser> fuuu
19:28:52 <Superuser> actually nevermind
19:29:12 <Superuser> lol, looking through the industry names, it strikes me that I won't need a plural gender at all
19:29:54 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to find all places that use {G}, not just industry-related
19:29:58 <Superuser> oi shit
19:30:00 <Superuser> I will
19:30:02 <Superuser> fudge
19:30:08 <Superuser> my
19:30:09 <Superuser> life
19:30:20 <Superuser> this will require regex magic
19:30:27 <Superuser> can lng files be edited in a text editor
19:30:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yes
19:30:40 <Superuser> sigh
19:30:50 <Superuser> I'll have to grep this at some point
19:31:01 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the original .txt file, not the compiled .lng file
19:31:08 <Superuser> this is 5/5 on windows btw
19:31:21 <Superuser> has a funky graphical interface too
19:31:22 <Superuser> ok
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19:48:00 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i think "shunting" doesn't quite mean the same thing that i suggested... "shunting" would involve exchanging wagons beteen consists
19:48:09 <Eddi|zuHause> +w
19:51:24 <peter1138> generally yes
19:51:40 <peter1138> you're talking about detaching the engine, moving it, and reattaching it at the back
19:51:50 <peter1138> which is not technically shunting but i can't think of a suitable word :p
19:53:43 <peter1138> oh the topic was randomly split
19:54:14 <Superuser> ΟΝΛΥ 300 ΛΕΦΤ
19:54:18 <Superuser> ONLY 300 LEFT *
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20:01:46 <Superuser> for STR_FORMAT_DATE_LONG
20:01:56 <Superuser> The English (US) original is '{STRING} {STRING} {NUM}'
20:02:06 <Superuser> the Greek translation (not mine) is '{} {STRING} {NUM}'
20:02:11 <Superuser> should I remove .date?
20:02:16 <V453000> track_overlay[1] 10 6 flat and 4 slope sprites. Track without landscape ----- when are the slope sprites used there? I cannot seem to find when are these done, on slopes underlay applies, on bridges bridge_surfaces apply
20:02:47 <Superuser> oh and nice application of OO, that's one thing you rarely come across :)
20:03:13 <peter1138> V453000, pbs reservation
20:03:22 <V453000> :o
20:03:59 <V453000> thanks
20:05:02 <Superuser> Anyone familiar with my issue? :L
20:05:16 <peter1138> what's the issue?
20:05:18 <Superuser> exactly 100 left btw (string 3804/3904)
20:05:31 <Superuser> <Superuser> for STR_FORMAT_DATE_LONG
20:05:31 <Superuser> <Superuser> The English (US) original is '{STRING} {STRING} {NUM}'
20:05:31 <Superuser> <Superuser> the Greek translation (not mine) is '{} {STRING} {NUM}'
20:05:31 <Superuser> <Superuser> should I remove .date?
20:05:42 <peter1138> is it wrong?
20:05:58 <andythenorth> there's no content in base costs grf
20:06:01 <andythenorth> no trains at all
20:06:06 <andythenorth> it's just a list of numbers
20:06:08 <andythenorth> it should be removed
20:06:13 <andythenorth> from everywhere
20:06:20 <V453000> it has a use?
20:06:28 <andythenorth> oops
20:06:30 * andythenorth is being a dick
20:06:35 <Superuser> I have NO clue about what you're on about, andy
20:06:54 <V453000> honestly, yes. If you dont care about the problem then dont fuck the discussion up imo
20:07:06 <V453000> I still love you though andy <3
20:07:20 <V453000> draw ships for me?
20:07:39 <Superuser> so should .date be removed?
20:08:02 <andythenorth> draw your own ships :P
20:08:21 <glx> Superuser: it's a case
20:08:22 <peter1138> Superuser, why should it be removed?
20:08:27 <V453000> worst case scenario :P
20:08:30 <Superuser> because the original doesn't have it
20:08:36 <Superuser> and no, not a case glx
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20:08:38 <peter1138> original doesn't have cases
20:08:42 <Superuser> oh wait it is
20:08:43 <Superuser> derp
20:09:05 <Superuser> sorry for the trouble
20:09:09 <Superuser> okay, last 100 strings!
20:09:40 <andythenorth> would this have been allowed on Nananas?
20:10:05 <peter1138> andythenorth, stfu :p
20:10:16 <andythenorth> about time someone said that
20:10:22 <V453000> :D
20:10:31 <peter1138> andythenorth, you're caring too much for someone who doesn't care :p
20:10:47 <Supercheese> ^
20:11:01 <V453000> ^^
20:11:22 <andythenorth> hmm ok so FISH is nearly 4 years old
20:11:52 <andythenorth> the first post of the thread is quite nice reading
20:11:52 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's not much different from CETS :)
20:11:55 <andythenorth>
20:12:00 <Supercheese> The problem isn't so much about random faff uploaded to Bananas, as Bananas has lots of faff already
20:12:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (although that is not on bananas yet)
20:12:08 <Supercheese> The problem is the community creating drama drama drama
20:12:23 <andythenorth> herp
20:12:35 <andythenorth> walls of text
20:12:41 <andythenorth> yet it's obvious when someone is being a dick
20:12:52 <andythenorth> I can be a dick and it's obvious in 1-2 lines
20:12:57 <andythenorth> then someone tells me to stfu
20:13:04 <andythenorth> so why loads of drama when someone else is a dick
20:13:06 <andythenorth> back to ships
20:13:18 <Supercheese> lolol
20:13:20 <Supercheese> (reserved)
20:13:26 <Supercheese> Can no longer be edited :|
20:13:32 <andythenorth> wtf is it reserved for eh?
20:13:40 <Supercheese> drama
20:13:49 <V453000> :D
20:13:54 <Superuser> motherfucking
20:13:55 <Superuser> YES
20:13:57 <Superuser> IT'S DONE
20:14:04 <Supercheese> a translation?
20:14:09 <Superuser> Ok I'll masturbate furiously and then sleep, later everyone
20:14:14 <Supercheese> WTMI
20:14:16 <andythenorth> that is lovely
20:14:21 *** Superuser has quit IRC
20:14:23 <Supercheese> W,W,W,WTMI
20:14:25 <V453000> PLAN
20:14:39 <andythenorth> actually not nearly enough
20:14:41 <andythenorth> I wanted pictures
20:14:43 <andythenorth> diagrams
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20:14:48 <andythenorth> video
20:14:52 <Supercheese> -______-
20:15:00 <andythenorth> but mostly diagrams
20:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause> a template maybe? :p
20:15:50 <andythenorth> check list
20:16:09 <V453000> andy are you drunk or yes
20:17:00 <andythenorth> V453000: not at all
20:17:16 <V453000> come on I wanted a moral justification for me to be drunk
20:17:27 <V453000> now I have to stay sober, thank you
20:17:47 <Supercheese> why?
20:17:53 <V453000> though, one thing
20:17:56 <Supercheese> No need for justification
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20:18:09 <V453000> HOW in the hell do foundations have effect on the opposite end of the tile :D
20:18:11 *** Flygon has joined #openttd
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20:19:02 <peter1138> andythenorth, i can't actually do anything about content on bananas anyway
20:19:15 *** Pol has quit IRC
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20:20:12 <V453000> wtf :D
20:20:26 <V453000> the snow shouldnt be there, as shown on the right tracks, the water is everywhere there
20:20:39 <V453000> when track is on foundation there, it overwrites the tracks :D somehow
20:21:07 <andythenorth> you know that foundations show a pixel or so above the tile? at least, in my experience they do
20:21:21 <V453000> but this is on the opposite side
20:21:48 <V453000> the snow shouldnt be there?
20:22:04 <V453000> that isnt a foundation, looks like hole in sprites but somehow ... it isnt a hole
20:22:36 <Supercheese> sprite alignment :|
20:22:42 <andythenorth> hmm
20:22:42 <V453000> the foundation is on the left, and under tracks
20:22:42 * Supercheese hates sprite aligning
20:22:48 <andythenorth> could we change the newgrf spec?
20:22:55 <andythenorth> to allow fetching images from remote sources?
20:23:08 <andythenorth> cb: change sprite source
20:23:09 <Supercheese> Someone write a patch that automatically aligns sprites As They Should Be™
20:23:18 <Supercheese> save us a lot of work :D
20:23:27 * andythenorth considers an actual 'advertising grf'
20:23:29 <V453000> hm yeah when I move the sprites 2 pixels right and 1 down, snow disappears
20:23:30 <Supercheese> autodetect "is this sprite a train"
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20:23:50 <Supercheese> "is this sprite a unicorn" execute autoalignunicorn subroutine
20:23:59 <andythenorth> I kind of need to trigger fetching a url in system browser when clicking on a tile
20:24:02 <andythenorth> we can do that?
20:24:11 <Supercheese> I think GS can
20:24:16 <Supercheese> clicky clicky
20:24:27 <andythenorth> don't think it can open your browser
20:24:32 <Supercheese> yet
20:24:37 <Supercheese> write a patch
20:24:45 <andythenorth> "Get paid to click ads"
20:24:45 <Supercheese> import code from the newgrf settings window
20:24:46 <andythenorth> :P
20:25:06 <Supercheese> "This vehicle can only be built after clicking on X advertisements"
20:25:13 <Supercheese> "Or solving Y captchas"
20:25:15 <andythenorth> the actual idea I had was a station set that showed lolcats
20:25:19 <andythenorth> and nothing to do with ads
20:25:22 <Supercheese> Nyan nyan
20:25:29 <andythenorth> secret combinations unlock a new cat
20:25:45 <Supercheese> Autoreplace ceiling cat with serious cat
20:25:56 <andythenorth> could be done without fetching them live
20:26:02 <andythenorth> but live would be
20:26:04 <Supercheese> HEQS already has CATs though :P
20:26:08 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
20:26:15 <andythenorth> good point
20:26:18 <andythenorth> let's move on
20:26:20 <andythenorth> so advertising
20:26:26 <andythenorth> how much shall we charge per click?
20:26:30 <andythenorth> and who gets the money?
20:26:33 <Supercheese> Yes.
20:26:37 <andythenorth> obv. it's my idea so 50% to me
20:26:49 <andythenorth> and 25% to openttd
20:26:53 <andythenorth> 25% to newgrf author?
20:27:08 <andythenorth> fair all round
20:27:44 <Supercheese> I should really stop being lazy and add the extra zoom sprites to my grf
20:27:50 <Supercheese> but... effort... ugh
20:27:52 <andythenorth> being lazy is good
20:28:23 <Supercheese> I think I've modified the OTTD source a dozen times since starting my game last month
20:28:26 <andythenorth> busy people are what cause stuff like the seige of staliningrad
20:28:43 * andythenorth has been adventuring in wikipedia
20:28:52 <Supercheese> It's amazing when you say "I don't like this 'feature'" and you can just browse the code and remove it, and recompile
20:28:57 <V453000> zoom sprites? :d what for
20:29:03 <Supercheese> Because it's "easy"
20:29:07 <V453000> brutal effort for no real gain tbh
20:29:08 <Supercheese> I already have large renders
20:29:20 <V453000> ah well with renders it isnt that much effort
20:29:21 <Supercheese> I "just" need to resize them and add some code
20:29:31 <andythenorth> yeah, that's how staliningrad got started too
20:29:34 <andythenorth> "it will be easy"
20:29:56 <andythenorth> 2m deaths later
20:29:58 <andythenorth> not easy
20:30:18 <andythenorth> be careful, is all I'm saying :P
20:30:29 <Supercheese> does the Dutch station set show passengers on the platforms based on amt of cargo waiting?
20:30:41 <Supercheese> that's become a mandatory feature for my pax-stations
20:30:52 * Supercheese should test
20:30:54 <Supercheese> brb
20:32:40 <andythenorth> so where is pikka at?
20:33:22 <Supercheese> Kanto
20:33:24 <Supercheese> or Johto
20:33:31 <Supercheese> the other regions are faff
20:33:57 <andythenorth> frosch123: semi-serious question - not just being a dick - could trams go backwards, in principle?
20:35:03 <frosch123> road vehicle movement is a lot more complicated
20:35:19 <frosch123> and i would wonder whether the tram should then switch the driving side :p
20:35:21 <andythenorth> and there's no obvious way to switch drive side
20:35:40 <frosch123> what's the point of driving a tram backwards?
20:35:46 <andythenorth> one of the (probably many) annoying things with trams is the loops that have to be built
20:35:47 <frosch123> the vehicles behind it will block the path
20:35:52 <andythenorth> yes
20:35:56 <andythenorth> state machine might be better :P
20:36:01 <andythenorth> in station
20:36:02 <andythenorth> nvm
20:36:03 <andythenorth> silly idea
20:36:21 <andythenorth> back to cooking dinner
20:36:22 <andythenorth> and ships
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20:38:10 <V453000> cook me a cake?
20:38:30 * Supercheese needs the tiles from VAST Objects for VAST Station tiles
20:38:39 <Supercheese> but no stations for NML :<
20:40:29 <frosch123> V453000: do czech also call baking cakes "cooking"?
20:40:47 <V453000> not quite, baking
20:40:51 <V453000> but cooking is general enough
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20:41:01 <V453000> also andy wont cook or bake me anything because he is a bitch, so ...
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20:42:27 <Supercheese> Dutch stations do not show passengers on the platforms :<
20:42:48 <Supercheese> Too bad, they have awesome sprites
20:43:03 <bb10> you didn't know? dutch people are invisible.
20:43:14 <Supercheese> That would explain a bit :P
20:43:22 <bb10> :D
20:50:16 <andythenorth> people on stations is lame
20:51:06 <Supercheese> what
20:51:23 <V453000> there should be animals, cakes and cats
20:51:32 <V453000> (cats arent classed as animals)
20:53:06 <andythenorth> that is a good idea
20:53:08 <andythenorth> do a station set
20:53:23 <andythenorth> V453000 really, you should do an industry set
20:53:28 <andythenorth> you are wasting your skills
20:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> and i would wonder whether the tram should then switch the driving side :p <- yes, just like overtaking vehicles just jump to the other lane (if it's free)
20:53:46 <andythenorth> V453000: ever play zool?
20:54:13 <Eddi|zuHause> (overtaking is not implemented for articulated vehicles yet, afair)
20:54:41 <V453000> andythenorth: I have half complete ;) just no sprites yet
20:54:59 <V453000> never heard of zool tho
20:55:00 <andythenorth>
20:55:06 <andythenorth> cakes and chupa chups and stuff
20:55:10 <andythenorth> and an awesome soundtrack
20:55:22 <V453000> andythenorth: FARM, FARM Adds Real Mayhem
20:57:52 <andythenorth> oh my word
20:57:56 <andythenorth> the most epic soundtrack
20:58:13 <andythenorth> games used to have class
20:58:17 * andythenorth is a grumpy old man
20:59:11 <Supercheese> TTO & TTD soundtracks are still my favorite non-Nintendo-game soundtracks
20:59:25 <V453000> andythenorth:
21:02:41 * andythenorth wonders
21:02:53 <andythenorth> lotus turbo esprit
21:02:58 <andythenorth> can't be hard to recreate
21:03:08 <andythenorth> I used to code games a bit like that in flash
21:03:13 <andythenorth> without corners :P
21:03:18 <andythenorth> never worked out the corners :P
21:04:59 <V453000> oh god :D
21:06:33 <andythenorth> gah
21:06:38 <andythenorth> my flash is blocked by apple :(
21:06:42 <andythenorth> can't play my old games
21:09:18 <V453000> hahaha
21:16:47 <andythenorth> draw me some ships
21:17:10 <andythenorth> V453000: all the dramas gone, let's make a new one
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21:19:05 <V453000> wat
21:20:10 <andythenorth> NUTS smells
21:20:14 <andythenorth> and you won't draw me ships
21:20:22 <V453000> OH
21:20:36 <V453000> well it smells so it needs some smelly ships
21:20:49 <V453000> also what kind of fool are you that you think I am going to draw normal ships
21:20:50 <Supercheese> NewFISH will have Livestock ship no? That surely is smelly
21:21:06 <frosch123> fish is smelly on its own
21:21:10 <andythenorth> cheese smells
21:21:14 <V453000> esp with livestock shits
21:21:14 <Supercheese> Hah, drawing graphics? By hand?
21:21:16 <Supercheese> Render them
21:21:20 <andythenorth> loser
21:21:33 <V453000> I want to see a good render for 1x zoom
21:21:42 <Supercheese> You render and then edit
21:21:44 <V453000> the good is important
21:21:54 <Supercheese> You don't just render and say "welp, I'm done"
21:21:55 <V453000> he :)
21:22:12 <andythenorth> Supercheese: you probably do just that :P
21:22:15 <V453000> isnt it easier to draw the silhoulette in the first place?
21:22:20 <Supercheese> Moi? Au contraire!
21:22:30 <andythenorth> Troll!
21:22:32 <Supercheese> Render and then tweak
21:22:46 <Supercheese> I could provide some "before -> after" but meh, effort
21:23:01 <andythenorth> oops, /me remembers not to go too far
21:23:09 <Supercheese> andythetroll
21:23:09 <andythenorth> this is not a place for your mum jokes
21:23:10 <V453000> got some examples? :>
21:23:23 <andythenorth> renders should be banned!
21:23:31 * peter1138 smirks at wallyweb trying to code
21:23:31 <Supercheese> Bye bye Av9
21:23:36 <Supercheese> that's rendered, no?
21:23:38 <Supercheese> Av8 is
21:24:02 <Supercheese> peter1138: trawling Simuscape for more drama?
21:24:17 <peter1138> eh?
21:24:22 <Supercheese> Wallyweb
21:24:31 <Supercheese> Oh new post
21:24:33 <Supercheese> nevermind
21:24:42 <Supercheese> wtf arrays
21:25:05 <andythenorth> I like Wally
21:25:08 <andythenorth> he never gets angry
21:25:12 <andythenorth> he's always a decent chap
21:25:34 <peter1138> yes well
21:25:37 <Supercheese> True enough andy
21:25:42 <andythenorth> his idea is good eh?
21:25:51 <andythenorth> instead of having actual vehicles
21:25:51 <peter1138> thank you for automatically assuming i'm going to go around digging up stuff to cause shit
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21:26:08 <andythenorth> see what you did there?
21:26:10 <V453000> LMFAO car heightmap
21:26:10 <V453000> :DD
21:26:11 <andythenorth> an actual drama :(
21:26:17 <V453000> another thread going to shit :D
21:26:28 <V453000> I blame andy
21:26:28 <andythenorth> natural destination of most threads
21:26:32 <andythenorth> yeah
21:26:39 <Supercheese> Must be drama o'clock again
21:26:45 <Supercheese> My,lookAtTheTime.jpg
21:26:46 <andythenorth> your fault this time
21:26:51 <Supercheese> oh wait, no commas in filenames
21:27:07 <andythenorth> I have to stop being a dick, or this turns into #tycoon
21:27:32 <Supercheese> Moby dick
21:27:34 <Supercheese> FISH
21:27:35 <Supercheese> makes sense
21:27:38 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
21:28:26 <V453000> :DDD
21:28:31 <V453000> excellent
21:29:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, sir, mister burns.
21:29:18 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd
21:29:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138
21:29:21 <peter1138> only joking
21:30:36 <V453000> you missed moby dick
21:30:43 <peter1138> how rude
21:31:26 <Eddi|zuHause> <Supercheese> oh wait, no commas in filenames <- are we still using DOS?
21:31:32 <Supercheese> Windows 7
21:31:36 <Supercheese> Doesn't like commas
21:31:38 <Eddi|zuHause> medieval times...
21:31:45 <Supercheese> Whoops
21:31:47 <Supercheese> I lied
21:31:54 <Rubidium> Supercheese: and the filename CON?
21:32:00 <Supercheese> Disregard
21:32:17 <Supercheese> Typing before testing = bad idea
21:32:36 <peter1138> Rubidium, how dare you commit my unfinished work! revert!
21:32:38 <Eddi|zuHause> on linux, the only thing that is not allowed is a "/", on windows a few more, but i don't remember "," being one of them
21:32:59 <V453000> what, windows accepts , in filenames? :D never tried
21:33:07 <Supercheese> Disallowed characters are \ / * ? : " < > |
21:33:17 <Supercheese> guess commas are fine after all
21:33:29 <peter1138> i love having files with * and ? in
21:34:09 <Eddi|zuHause> files which only differ in cases are "fun" as well on windows ;)
21:34:50 <V453000> dont those match in win?
21:35:06 <frosch123> you cannot beat the madness of dos/win filesystems
21:35:45 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: yes, but some evil linuxes might create them anyway, and then windows gets horribly confused by some different directory entries having the same name
21:35:50 <Supercheese> Anyway, Render & Tweak:
21:35:52 <V453000> first time I hear I cant beat madness
21:36:01 <Supercheese> that is how I make most vehicles
21:36:13 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: :))
21:36:34 <frosch123> using a special first character in the filename to mark a file as deleted, and then later realising that you want to allow that character in filenames, and thus using a second special character to represent the first one :)
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21:38:28 <V453000> idk if that isnt faster to draw by hand Supercheese :)
21:38:42 <Supercheese> Try drawing 1x 2x and 4x by hand faster
21:38:55 <Supercheese> but anyway speed is not the point
21:38:56 <V453000> 2x and 4x is pointless imo
21:38:57 <Supercheese> I cannot draw
21:38:58 <Supercheese> for shit
21:39:08 <V453000> mhm :) me neither
21:39:19 <frosch123> "The reason, why 0xE5 was chosen for this purpose in 86-DOS is down to the fact, that 8-inch CP/M floppies came pre-formatted with this value filled and so could be used to store files out-of-the box." <- oh, i learned something new
21:39:57 <Supercheese> Besides, there's a very nice OTTD-plugin for Sketchup that makes rendering fast
21:40:47 <Supercheese> Only issue is you can't really render with a transparent background, but that's a fairly minor thing
21:41:07 <V453000> well if the method works for you, its fine :) just looking at zbase makes me really confused why rendering though :)
21:41:09 <Supercheese> GIMP can remove the background color well enough
21:41:19 <V453000> hm :)
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21:42:44 <V453000> hi moby
21:43:03 <V453000> you gotta admit that joke was excellent
21:43:24 <Supercheese> :D
21:44:45 <andythenorth> 100 pax ferry - how much cargo? 40t?
21:44:48 <andythenorth> is about right I reckon
21:45:39 <V453000> 9000
21:46:01 <andythenorth> at least
21:46:26 <V453000> 9001 minimum
21:46:47 <Supercheese> V453000: No, that's power, not capacity :D
21:47:07 <andythenorth> ratio of mail:pax?
21:47:27 <V453000> ships dont have power ... UNLESS THEY ARE ON RAILS
21:48:06 <Supercheese> Railships
21:48:08 <Supercheese> BRILLIANT
21:48:34 <V453000> howgh
21:48:51 <Supercheese> Is... is that canals-as-railtype?
21:49:02 <V453000> YES :D
21:49:03 <andythenorth> it's awesome
21:49:07 <Supercheese> :D :D :D
21:49:20 <Supercheese> Brilliant
21:49:23 <V453000> coming with NUTS 0.4.8
21:49:33 <frosch123> do you have a trainset with matching nacelles?
21:49:35 <Supercheese> /want
21:49:41 <V453000> along with A ship, submarine, hovercraft, loch ness, and some other water animals, furballs,...
21:49:50 <Supercheese> There's your diagonal canals, andy
21:50:01 <V453000> haha
21:50:07 <V453000> and no colliding sihps?
21:50:19 <V453000> and what not¨
21:50:24 <Supercheese> Ekranoplan !
21:50:29 <Supercheese> Can now be made
21:50:43 <V453000> what is that
21:50:48 <Terkhen> good night
21:50:56 <Supercheese> Although hmm, canals-as-railtypes makes using real water problematic
21:51:01 <V453000> what the fuck is that :D googled
21:51:06 <Supercheese>
21:51:14 <V453000> well you could put canals around them
21:51:15 <Supercheese> Basically aircraft that run over water
21:51:20 <Supercheese> "air"craft
21:51:37 <Supercheese> They can't be made as ships because ships can only go ~80 MPH
21:51:43 <Supercheese> and these things would be faster
21:51:43 <V453000> :D
21:51:55 <Supercheese> BUT they can be made as "trains"
21:52:00 <Supercheese> for canal-railtype
21:52:06 <V453000> well, this is what is coming for next nuts :)
21:52:10 <Supercheese> Whooboy
21:52:26 <Supercheese> Addon-grfs will come shortly
21:52:28 <frosch123> andythenorth: now you can have your articulated tug boats :)
21:52:34 <Supercheese> like those :)
21:52:36 <andythenorth> indeed
21:52:43 <andythenorth> I had better start redesiging Squid
21:53:08 <Supercheese> V453000: just reuse the baseset river-sprites
21:53:10 <Supercheese> ?
21:53:17 <V453000> not using opengfx
21:53:39 <Supercheese> nevermind, whatever works for you then :D
21:53:40 <andythenorth> V453000: just reuse the ones I drew for rivers
21:53:44 <frosch123> Supercheese: the rivers do not have matching sprites for diagonals
21:53:48 <V453000> I think my water looks kind of acceptable for both ttd and opengfx
21:53:50 <Supercheese> right, that
21:54:01 <V453000> I have water drawn already? :D
21:54:03 <NGC3982> Wat
21:54:04 <NGC3982> Oh
21:54:08 <NGC3982> Someone said Oboy.
21:54:16 <Supercheese> "Whooboy"
21:54:17 <andythenorth> ho
21:54:19 <frosch123> [22:54] <V453000> I have water drawn already? :D <- we are used to andy
21:54:20 <andythenorth> diagonal canals
21:54:21 <V453000> all I need now is signal-buoys, tunnels, road crossings
21:54:26 <frosch123> draw stuff, throw it away
21:54:33 <Supercheese> Oh snap, tunnels
21:54:34 <Supercheese> :D
21:54:38 <V453000> :)
21:54:42 <andythenorth> 1 tile locks
21:54:47 <Supercheese> Just disallow road crossings?
21:54:52 <Supercheese> or bridges
21:54:53 <Supercheese> I guess
21:54:57 <andythenorth> really, why not reimplement everything as trains?
21:55:00 <V453000> disallowing road crossings is imo a totally wrong option
21:55:02 <Supercheese> Yeah, bridges
21:55:07 <andythenorth> V453000: fords
21:55:10 <Supercheese> Ooh, they can open/close
21:55:12 <V453000> :D
21:55:22 <V453000> riiight
21:55:32 <V453000> I am going to just make it basic form of worky for now okay :P
21:55:33 <andythenorth> so should I re-do HEQS as trains?
21:55:39 <V453000> YES
21:55:52 <V453000> =D me feels evil
21:55:53 <andythenorth> and BANDIT?
21:55:58 <Supercheese> No no
21:55:59 <V453000> eeevrything
21:56:05 <V453000> also FIRS
21:56:06 <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, make them completely useless
21:56:06 <andythenorth> planes are harder
21:56:07 <Supercheese> Primary advantage of HEQS trams is they can go into city centers
21:56:12 <Supercheese> tracks over the roads
21:56:13 <andythenorth> so can trains
21:56:18 <andythenorth> just bulldoze
21:56:19 <Supercheese> no need to bulldoze half the town
21:56:25 <andythenorth> just station walk
21:56:32 <andythenorth> 30 tile spread, place one tile
21:56:33 <andythenorth> done
21:56:36 <Supercheese> slows down game
21:56:38 <V453000> honestly rail ships are just for the visuals
21:56:41 <Supercheese> although not on my machine
21:56:50 <Supercheese> but some older machines might complain about 30 tile spreads
21:56:53 <V453000> and because I am famous for hating ships
21:56:59 <V453000> for being dumb
21:57:01 <Supercheese> NoClipShips
21:57:04 <Supercheese> clip clip clip
21:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause> ship signals!
21:57:11 <Supercheese> Buoys
21:57:14 <Supercheese> Lighthice
21:57:14 <V453000> yep :)
21:57:17 <Eddi|zuHause> water flowing upwards!
21:57:21 <Supercheese> (clearly the plural for lighthouse)
21:57:23 <V453000> :D yes
21:57:28 <frosch123> water falls and black holes
21:57:37 <frosch123> (did i miss the topic?)
21:57:40 <Supercheese> Subway-canals
21:57:42 <V453000> I considered making slopes like not normal water, but nO
21:57:46 <andythenorth> frosch123: you are doing fine
21:57:47 <Supercheese> Underground rivers
21:57:48 <andythenorth> make it up
21:58:23 <andythenorth> yeah, so who ever carries coal in a ferry in FISH?
21:58:53 <Supercheese> I carry all coal in barges
21:58:53 <V453000> aaaanyway, prepare for mayhem
21:58:55 <V453000> me -> bed
21:58:56 <V453000> cyas
21:59:03 <Supercheese> vale, dormiture
21:59:20 <andythenorth> Squid is going to have more restrictive refits
21:59:26 <Supercheese> Autorefit
21:59:30 <andythenorth> FISH was mostly 'carry anything, any ship'
21:59:34 <andythenorth> which is highly realistic
21:59:35 <andythenorth> but lame
21:59:37 <Supercheese> that needs to be the same
21:59:41 <andythenorth> nerp
21:59:44 <andythenorth> it's lame
21:59:46 <Supercheese> some ships autorefit 4 times to different cargoes
21:59:51 <Supercheese> as they run about
21:59:56 <andythenorth> yeah, that's nice :)
21:59:59 <andythenorth> not :)
22:00:18 <andythenorth> no more bulk cargos in ferries
22:00:26 <Supercheese> Iron Ore -> Metal -> Goods -> Iron ore again
22:00:34 <andythenorth> that's ok, use a freight ship for that
22:00:39 <andythenorth> freight ships refit any freight
22:00:41 <Supercheese> Yes
22:00:43 <Supercheese> Oh, ok
22:00:57 * Supercheese never uses passenger ships for freight
22:00:58 <andythenorth> ferries refit any pax / mail / express
22:01:00 <Supercheese> that would be silly
22:01:16 <andythenorth> I think ferries refit some farm cargos too
22:01:33 <Supercheese> I tend to use the Labrador Utility for farm cargos
22:01:43 <Supercheese> 18-21 mph, 12t
22:01:51 <Wolf01> 'night
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22:02:03 <Supercheese> Farms only need 56t per 3 months for max prod
22:02:04 <andythenorth> Supercheese: it will be probly 16t or so now, maybe
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22:04:01 <Zuu> V453000: A water-slug. Eg. a wave that travels through the canal.
22:04:06 <Zuu> Or submarine
22:04:18 <V453000> do you really think I would not include water slugs? :P
22:04:29 <Zuu> :-)
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22:07:37 <frosch123> night
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22:07:41 <Supercheese> Sharks as ships
22:07:46 <Supercheese> Whales as ships
22:08:04 <Supercheese> etc.
22:08:16 <V453000> poor moby
22:08:21 <V453000> hauling them wagons
22:15:37 <andythenorth> bed
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22:45:40 <Prof_Frink> Supercheese: Nessie.
22:45:56 <Supercheese> I think Mr. NUTS has that planned
22:46:12 <Supercheese> "V453000 along with A ship, submarine, hovercraft, loch ness, and some other water animals, furballs,..."
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