IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-02-12
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00:10:45 <Terkhen> good night
00:14:06 <Bad_Brett> good night Terkhen
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00:34:09 <Superuser> some tooltips are truly disastrous
00:34:11 <Superuser> STR_ORDERS_GO_TO_TOOLTIP
00:34:15 <Superuser> "{BLACK}Insert a new order before the highlighted order, or add to end of list. Ctrl makes station orders 'full load any cargo', waypoint orders 'non-stop' and depot orders 'service'. 'Share orders' or Ctrl lets this vehicle share orders with the selected vehicle. Clicking a vehicle copies the orders from that vehicle. A depot order disables automatic servicing of the vehicle"
00:34:27 <Superuser> IT IS HUGE
00:34:38 <Superuser> I'm okay with translating it, but gee.
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04:47:15 <peter1138> essays 'r' us
04:54:34 <Pikka> aren't they
04:55:35 <Pikka> this F unit is looking moderately nice
04:56:19 <Pikka> the diagonal looked extremely nice, but then I realised I'd neglected to shorten it
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05:00:29 * Supercheese is being lazy and not working on his grfs
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06:21:14 <Flygon> ...
06:21:17 <Flygon> No words can describe this
06:22:07 <Supercheese> How about: "Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!"
06:22:14 <Supercheese> Coming from the top down, anyway
06:23:37 <DDR> Tunnels... nah, they're expensive.
06:23:37 <Flygon> It's apperantly a runaway train arrester
06:23:52 <DDR> Oh, hunh.
06:24:16 <DDR> Supercheese was right. :P
06:25:27 <Supercheese> :D
06:27:30 <__ln__> Flygon: if it is, why does it continue over the hill instead of ending at the top?
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06:29:06 <Flygon> __ln__: It doubles as a horsepower tester?
06:38:45 <DDR> __ln__: If the track on the other side is higher than the track on this side, you'd still have a breaking effect.
06:39:30 <DDR> for example, if it was a plateau on the other side, you'd have that hill slowing down every single car in the train, not just the cars at the head of the train.
06:40:29 <__ln__> that's true
06:58:23 <Nat_aS> it's also a sick jump
06:58:31 <Nat_aS> like gun the throttle all the way up
06:58:37 <Nat_aS> and go over it at full speed
06:58:41 <Nat_aS> catch some air
06:58:46 <Supercheese> I doubt that's possible, it's quite a grade
06:58:53 <Nat_aS> lol
06:58:59 <Supercheese> a really light, really powerful engine perhaps
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07:39:08 <Flygon> Supercheese: A DMU?
07:39:21 <Flygon> Or, lighter, an EMU
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07:39:35 <Flygon> It'll have the tractive effort required
07:42:42 <Supercheese> Hah, I love this game, largest city is 29,000 pop, next largest is 4,000
07:43:17 <Supercheese> it keeps growing, too
07:43:46 <Flygon> Urg, good luck
07:43:51 <Flygon> When it reaches 100k+
07:43:57 <Flygon> The city is unmanagable
07:44:00 <Supercheese> the subways will be able to handle the traffic
07:44:17 <Flygon> Ah
07:44:20 <Flygon> When my cities are that big
07:44:23 <Flygon> I have tram networks
07:44:34 <Flygon> Why? Because it's an early city that I couldn't afford subways for
07:44:39 <Flygon> eg. start of the game
07:44:40 <Supercheese> I made a subway grf to help deal with situations just like these :)
07:44:57 <Flygon> Subway GRF still requires demolishing buildings
07:45:02 <Supercheese> Nope
07:45:05 <Supercheese> Just roads
07:45:13 <Flygon> Wait, huh?
07:45:16 <Supercheese> which already exist
07:45:20 <Flygon> Can cars still drive on those roads?
07:45:31 <Supercheese> Yes, but they will conflict with the subways
07:45:42 <Flygon> Wait, are you talking about standard rail? Or a repurposed road GRF?
07:45:54 <Flygon> And what do you mean by 'conflict'?
07:45:54 <Supercheese>
07:45:59 <Flygon> Thanks
07:46:10 <Supercheese> all detailed in that post
07:46:18 <Flygon> Ahh
07:46:20 <Flygon> I see
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07:46:38 <Supercheese> they are coded as [beneath-the-]road vehicles
07:47:54 <Flygon> Sorry for the confusion
07:47:57 <Supercheese> Oh whew, my game hung for ~6 seconds when pulling up the save menu, I was afraid it was going to crash, fortunately not
07:48:03 <Supercheese> wonder why it froze...
07:48:18 <Supercheese> I am running a patchpack, probably that
07:58:10 <Supercheese> Wellp
07:58:14 <Supercheese> I think this game is about 'done'
07:58:31 <Supercheese> All towns connected, all industries connected, all primary industries supplied (FIRS supplies)
07:58:50 <Supercheese> no huge cargo buildups
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08:00:18 <Supercheese> Salve, andy
08:00:24 <andythenorth> hi hi
08:00:26 <Supercheese> FIRS basic is too basic
08:00:36 <Supercheese> I think this game is about 'done'
08:00:40 <andythenorth> orly?
08:00:42 <Supercheese> All towns connected, all industries connected, all primary industries supplied
08:00:46 <Supercheese> no huge cargo buildups
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08:00:54 <andythenorth> try it with a cargo goal
08:00:59 <Supercheese> Yeah
08:01:09 <Supercheese> I just wanted to get a good game in, testing some grfs, FIRS included :)
08:01:18 <Supercheese> problem is now there's really nothing else to do
08:01:26 <Supercheese> fund new industries I guess
08:01:34 <Supercheese> or newgame time
08:01:46 <andythenorth> basic has ~19 industries
08:01:55 <andythenorth> full FIRS is 49
08:02:11 <andythenorth> there's room in the middle for more economies
08:02:21 <andythenorth> middle ground :P
08:02:29 <andythenorth> middle of the road :P
08:02:35 <andythenorth> middling :P
08:02:49 <Supercheese> I'd have gotten away with it if it weren't for you middling kids
08:06:00 * MNIM takes off Supercheese's mask
08:06:03 <MNIM> OMG!
08:06:07 <MNIM> it's the lawnkeeper!
08:06:33 <Supercheese> I'll get you next time... and your doggy too!
08:07:28 * MNIM barks for scoobysnacks
08:08:09 <MNIM>
08:13:48 <Supercheese> "Town grows every 1 day"
08:13:50 <Supercheese> whooboy
08:14:00 <Pikka> good moaning andythenorth
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08:17:33 <andythenorth> bonsoir Pikka chops
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08:20:21 <Supercheese> Huzzah, the 2-6-2 Prairie
08:20:39 <Supercheese> Nice upgrade to 0-6-0 Goods
08:24:03 <Pikka> is this a good time to be messing around with vehicle sprite offsets do you think? D:
08:24:54 <Pikka> I decided maybe the | train sprites could move up a couple of pixels :)
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08:29:16 <andythenorth> as long as you know what you're doing :
08:29:17 <andythenorth> :P
08:29:23 * andythenorth hates offsets
08:30:52 <Pikka>
08:31:11 <Pikka> not seen in this picture: any | trains :]
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08:31:23 <Pikka> it's only a couple of pixels anyway, no-one will notice.
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08:39:07 <peter1138> wut
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08:42:10 <andythenorth> Pikka: u can haz new industry graphics? o_O
08:42:19 <andythenorth> iz brickwx?
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09:10:00 <Pikka> that is my gasworks/early power station
09:10:09 <Pikka> but I'm going to redo it
09:10:15 <Pikka> less TTD-ish
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09:21:14 <andythenorth> Pikka chu, it's not very good, but unused FIRS sprite:
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09:22:23 <Pikka> thanks, not really the style I think I'm aiming for though (neither are the current sprites)
09:23:24 <Pikka> going for a much less noisy and busy style than default TTD I think, ala 10CC
09:26:26 <andythenorth> orly :)
09:26:39 <andythenorth> toon render :P
09:27:12 <andythenorth> will you redraw the houses as well? o_O
09:27:48 <andythenorth> eh?
09:28:00 <andythenorth> there are a few people around the forums that don't know what a troll is
09:28:14 <andythenorth> any disagreement is labelled as trolling
09:28:16 <andythenorth> how dumb
09:29:24 <andythenorth> or perhaps....they are the real trolls, and I am falling for it :)
09:29:28 <MNIM> they see me trolling, they hating?
09:32:22 <planetmaker> moin
09:32:31 <Pikka> moin planetmaker
09:32:55 <Pikka> yes, I will redraw the houses as well
09:33:08 <Pikka> TaI unlazy edition
09:34:27 <andythenorth> got a name for this style?
09:34:28 <andythenorth> 10CC?
09:34:36 <andythenorth> what would a 10CC ship look like? o_O
09:35:40 <Pikka> dunno
09:35:49 <Pikka> have more of an idea when I've drawn more than two trains :P
09:35:59 <andythenorth> ho ho
09:36:09 * andythenorth bbl
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09:39:30 <Supercheese> 'night
09:39:34 <Supercheese> valete omnes
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09:48:11 <Flygon> Hmmm
09:48:36 <Flygon> Civilization II: As it turns out, you can wipe out a powerful civilization so fast, it literally doesn't register on the powergraph
09:48:48 <Flygon> Aint unusual things fun? :B
09:52:29 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, a few tanks and howitzers, and you can cover a whole continent in one turn...
09:52:48 <Eddi|zuHause> assuming it has railways
09:55:14 <Flygon> Yeah, was lucky enough to have railways
09:55:21 <Flygon> But Howitzers lack the move needed
09:55:26 <Flygon> Bombers + Tanks ftw
09:55:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i rarely used bombers
09:56:12 <Eddi|zuHause> stealth fighters can do way more damage
09:59:02 <Flygon> You'd be surprised
09:59:05 <Flygon> Cheap to build
09:59:08 <Flygon> Enmasse
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10:00:27 <planetmaker> expensive to maintain in certain government forms, Flygon ;-)
10:00:35 <Flygon> I was Demo
10:00:39 <Flygon> But forced to Fundie
10:00:48 <Flygon> Nearly killed my spacerace
10:00:56 <Flygon> But I got Fusion Power JUST in time
10:01:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i never do fundamentalism
10:02:19 <Flygon> I do it in cases where "%&^# the senate"
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10:03:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i barely remember how annoying the senate actually was
10:05:29 <Flygon> Eddi: it overrides your decision 50% of the time
10:05:37 <Flygon> I had the UN. So it was just 25%
10:05:42 <Flygon> ...which was still TERRIBLE
10:06:19 <Eddi|zuHause> there were times where it just refused war, and other times where declaring war caused anarchy, right?
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10:08:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i miss the whole revolution/discontinuous cultural development in civ5... everything neatly builds up on the previous culture...
10:08:30 <Eddi|zuHause> the world did not work like that
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10:16:34 <Flygon> Eddi: Well. Forcing war can cause anarchy, yes.
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11:23:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "The Zombie Apocalypse has begun in Montana"
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12:26:53 <Juicy> hey
12:27:07 <Juicy> Everybody afk ?
12:28:22 <Juicy> i guess .. well , ill just leave my question here then .. Okay , im wondering , how do i change the end year for my server ? been googleing , but with no luck . Thanks in advance
12:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause> so what have you tried so far?
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12:29:50 <Juicy> Nothing . haven't tried anything really , haven't been able to find anything on the subject
12:30:27 <Eddi|zuHause> then you should probably look at openttd.cfg (while the server is not running)
12:30:50 <Eddi|zuHause> or the "list_settings" command (while the server is running)
12:30:50 <Juicy> alright , will do so . thanks :)
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12:31:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it'd be something like "restart_year" or so
12:31:43 <Juicy> cool , ill look into thanks . thanks a bunch :)
12:38:10 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you giant troll you :)
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12:38:43 <Eddi|zuHause> NOWAI
12:39:18 <andythenorth> is all argument now going to be labelled 'trolling'
12:39:19 <andythenorth> ?
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12:54:55 <planetmaker> both Eddi|zuHause and Pikka sometimes have a tendency to a brevity in their answers which belies the reasoning which went into it ;-)
12:58:54 <Eddi|zuHause> ok... looks like empty bottles standig on my computer act as resonance body...
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13:32:35 <andythenorth> hmm
13:32:38 <andythenorth> so
13:33:08 <andythenorth> new repo for Squid? Or just branch old FISH 2 and continue Squid in the same repo?
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13:36:51 <planetmaker> new repo
13:37:02 <planetmaker> new newgrf = new repo
13:37:52 <andythenorth> k thanks
13:37:57 <planetmaker> I still don't get why you abandon FISH though. It seems to cater for the shipping needs one might have
13:38:15 <planetmaker> For more than I have in a single game. But for all which I have in different games
13:38:23 <andythenorth> mostly because I don't like it
13:38:27 <andythenorth> FISH 2 smells
13:38:49 <andythenorth> it's not worse than FISH, not better
13:39:03 <andythenorth> herp, it *is* worse than FISH :P
13:39:08 * andythenorth should learn to type
13:39:13 <planetmaker> make klipfisk from it :D
13:39:27 <andythenorth> Salt Fish?
13:39:32 <planetmaker> yeah :D
13:39:43 <andythenorth> looks awesome
13:39:46 <planetmaker> stops the fish becoming smelly :-)
13:39:55 <andythenorth> I considered calling it SALT
13:40:18 <andythenorth> but Squid is Calimari
13:40:22 <planetmaker> squid is the nicer name for it ^
13:40:23 <andythenorth> and it's CalimariTime
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13:40:37 <andythenorth> blame pikka for that pun ^
13:41:02 * planetmaker didn't get that pun though
13:41:08 <andythenorth> Cali Maritime
13:41:32 <planetmaker> :-)
13:41:46 <andythenorth> what state should I leave FISH repo in?
13:41:56 <andythenorth> feel like I should roll it back to last working state of FISH 2
13:42:03 <andythenorth> instead of hacked around to become Squid
13:42:16 <andythenorth> but then....who's going to ever care? o_O
13:42:23 <planetmaker> leave it as-is
13:42:38 <andythenorth> I'll made a copy of the web database that drives the ships, before I hacked it around
13:42:44 <andythenorth> I'll / I did
13:42:50 * andythenorth really has typing issues
13:43:23 <peter1138> hi
13:43:32 <planetmaker> it's a vcs... any version is accessible, also non-head. And one can easily create new heads. Later. If ever
13:44:28 <andythenorth> hi peter1138
13:45:03 <peter1138> i never did my secret project
13:45:39 <Bad_Brett> good afternoon
13:46:16 <andythenorth> planetmaker: once again I forget how to add a repo to devzone, sorry :(
13:46:23 <andythenorth> always the identifier trips me up
13:46:27 <andythenorth> url
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13:48:58 <planetmaker> andythenorth, create project. Make sure you have checked the 'repository' module upon creation. Just wait a few minutes and it'll be auto-created for you
13:49:38 <planetmaker> then clone that empty repo for most convenience and start with it
13:50:07 <planetmaker> choose a sensible identifier, i.e. squid in your case. That'll be the URL then, too
13:50:50 <planetmaker> like that :D
13:51:27 <planetmaker> you... probably should have added yourself as manager though :-)
13:52:28 <andythenorth> hmm :)
13:52:31 <andythenorth> k biab
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14:02:45 <peter1138> WHOLE LOTTA LOVE
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14:36:34 <Belugas> hello
14:38:32 <Bad_Brett> is anyone here good at positioning childsprites? while the x-pos makes perfect sense, the y-pos seems somewhat random
14:38:45 <Bad_Brett> hello Belugas
14:38:56 <peter1138> neither are random :S
14:39:47 <Bad_Brett> I made two different houses, using the exact same sprites and offsets, and yet the childsprites are in different places
14:39:53 <Bad_Brett> it's really confusing
14:40:11 <Bad_Brett> i spend ~10 hours yesterday trying to understand what I did wrong
14:40:16 <Belugas> hello Bad_Brett :)
14:41:41 <Bad_Brett> I did this picture yesterday to try to understand what's going on... but to no avail
14:41:45 <Bad_Brett>
14:43:37 <Bad_Brett> the documentation suggests that the y-offset of the childsprite should be the distance from the top of the parent, but that doesn't seem to be the case
14:49:16 <Bad_Brett> I also did an experiment... I changed the y-offs of the parent from -100 to -200... and the childsprite moved _8_ pixels.
14:50:21 <Bad_Brett> if the position is relative to the parent sprite, shouldn't the childsprite move 100 pixels as well?
14:51:08 <Bad_Brett> something really weird is going on... i'll clear the cache and see if it makes a difference
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14:54:21 <Katve> Does somebody know why there are no release announcement on the TT-Forums for 1.3.0-beta2 ?
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14:59:27 <Bad_Brett> ok, so i removed all switches and now it works properly... guess i just have to find the source
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15:00:05 <planetmaker> Katve, simply not yet written... it's on the agenda, though
15:02:58 <Bad_Brett> ok... now this is getting REALLY weird
15:03:54 <Katve> planetmaker ok
15:04:52 <planetmaker> of course you can get the changelog...
15:05:04 <Bad_Brett> the childsprite changes position when I add more zoom levels... how can the z0 sprites be affected by the the z1 sprites?
15:06:28 <Katve> no thats not the point of course I read it while downloading, but I didnt notice whole update and according to the it is released 7.2.13 and I noticed it only by going to multiplayer and servers not matching
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15:27:38 <peter1138> got some coffee called java jampit
15:27:42 <peter1138> i misread it
15:27:44 <peter1138> java armpit :S
15:28:23 <planetmaker> iew... sounds tasty :D
15:29:50 <peter1138> hehe
15:29:53 <peter1138> it is actually
15:31:38 <Belugas> jampit.. i guess you are growing an obsession ;)
15:32:19 <peter1138> since getting a machine... yeah
15:32:47 <Belugas> :)
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15:43:56 <peter1138> ooooh coffee done
15:50:09 <Pinkbeast> coffee, there's an idea.
15:57:36 <peter1138> coffee's not just an idea. it's THE LAW
15:58:38 <V453000> wtf is !! BK tunnels?
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16:00:29 <Alberth> V453000: it is a not so useful newgrf? :)
16:00:46 <V453000> well yeah but what is it for then :d
16:00:46 <peter1138> i used it in every game
16:00:55 <peter1138> V453000, can you read?
16:01:16 <V453000> oh I see now
16:01:33 <V453000> so it is just a poster which informs people that they should go download it to simuscape?
16:01:45 <V453000> that is a joke
16:02:01 <peter1138> i think so
16:02:21 <V453000> unbelievable
16:02:23 <planetmaker> V453000,
16:02:46 <planetmaker> ups... wrong issue
16:03:10 <planetmaker>
16:03:51 <V453000> :D my first thoughts
16:04:28 <V453000> just after I discovered it is just bullshit anyway
16:04:53 <planetmaker> didn't take 24h for that issue to be submitted to our bug tracker
16:04:54 <peter1138> surely you mean to say a useful service to discover grf you did not know about
16:05:22 <V453000> honestly there should be some rule about that
16:05:28 <planetmaker> which?
16:05:37 <planetmaker> (honest question)
16:06:02 <V453000> about uploading newGRFs which do nothing on purpose
16:06:25 <V453000> how is linking people to simuscape any helpful
16:06:38 <V453000> I consider that simply advertisement spam
16:06:59 <V453000> you could also put there an informational newgrf about buying viagra or whatnot
16:07:10 <planetmaker> :D :D
16:07:51 <peter1138> i don't believe the T&Cs deal with spam
16:08:04 <peter1138> there's also the issue of precedent
16:08:39 <planetmaker> TOS didn't need to deal with it... so far. What precedent?
16:08:40 <peter1138> otoh, we deal with issues when notified, so who knows
16:08:49 <peter1138> the "we don't moderate it" rule
16:09:02 <V453000> so far; this is a pretty large exception and first of its kind that I know of
16:11:23 <Bad_Brett> Is someone willing to take a look at this? The file contains a grf (and nml code of course) with two identical houses (same sprites/offsets/parameters). The only difference is that House 1 only have graphics for the 4x zoom level, while House 2 have graphics for all zoom levels. Yet the position of the z0 childsprites are directly affected by this.
16:11:26 <Bad_Brett>
16:13:16 <Bad_Brett> I included nmlc to make it easier to compile... if this is unacceptable I'll upload another version
16:13:51 <planetmaker> is the lang file included (often forgotten)?
16:14:10 <planetmaker> nmlc surely is not needed and just bloats it
16:14:33 <planetmaker> depending on whether you shipped its license you might not be allowed to ship it that way
16:17:49 <Bad_Brett> the lang is included
16:17:51 <Bad_Brett> i'll remove nmlc
16:18:02 <andythenorth> I don't really see the problem with BK tunnels grf
16:18:06 <andythenorth> we don't moderate bananas
16:18:40 <planetmaker> so far people behaved well and didn't abuse the service
16:19:34 <andythenorth> but there's nothing objectively wrong with this newgrf
16:20:10 <Bad_Brett> fixed it
16:20:14 <planetmaker> posted for the single purpose to advertize a 3rd party site without providing any content
16:20:56 <planetmaker> I could also post a viagra-advertizement newgrf. Nothing wrong with it. Technically
16:21:07 <V453000> correct me if I am wrong but I think the purpose of bananas is to provide newGRFs which the game can find, and this - let me call it spam - clearly doesnt do that
16:21:30 <planetmaker> (I like the viagra analogy, V453000 :D )
16:21:37 <V453000> if I have real BK tunnels 1.5 in my savegame, it wont work anyway
16:21:42 <V453000> :)
16:25:20 <peter1138> V453000, perhaps complain to whoever uploaded it
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16:25:40 <V453000> searching on simuscape, but the excellent site structure prevents me from finding it so far
16:25:50 <peter1138> yup
16:26:00 <peter1138> downloaded 839 times
16:26:11 <peter1138> i guess people don't read, who'da thunk it
16:26:14 <V453000> =D You do not have the required permissions to read topics within this forum.
16:26:24 <V453000> solved
16:26:51 <V453000> and yes I am logged in
16:27:04 <peter1138> heh
16:27:17 <peter1138> can't read even with a login? hah
16:27:37 <V453000> hah > heh? :P
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16:30:45 <planetmaker> technically sorting usually determines that heh? > hah
16:34:19 <peter1138> see-eee-eee-eee emily play
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16:40:50 <Bad_Brett> seriously, what's going on? how can an extra alternative_sprites block for the z5 zoom level affect the offsets for the z0 level? it doesn't make any sense
16:42:14 <planetmaker> I'll try to have a look when I'm home, Bad_Brett. But that'll take an hour at least
16:42:38 <Bad_Brett> thanks a lot... most appreciated :)
16:46:42 <peter1138> iirc sprite pixel offsets have to match
16:48:40 <andythenorth> do I have to register on another site to get BK Tunnels?
16:49:19 <V453000> yes on simuscape, but I have registered there and dont seem to be able to get to BK tunnel thread
16:49:32 <peter1138> nou
16:49:37 <peter1138> if you really wanted it
16:50:13 <michi_cc> Bad_Brett: If the dimensions and offsets of the different zoom levels don't scale to the same value, OTTD will adjust the offsets and pad the sprites. This usually doesn't matter, except for child sprites I guess.
16:50:40 <michi_cc> V453000: You didn't read the site rules and didn't make a post to the welcome thread? ;)
16:50:48 <V453000> I did
16:51:19 <andythenorth> so now we have a grf on bananas which is there to promote data capture by a third party service?
16:51:44 <peter1138> it's been there for days, i dunno ;p
16:52:18 <Bad_Brett> michi_cc: Thanks... I suspected something like that, because the numbers didn't add up
16:52:46 <andythenorth> simuscape requires an email to register?
16:52:53 <michi_cc> V453000: And yes, it is a bad precedent, but whatever we ("official" we) do, we're going to be the bad guys.
16:53:18 <V453000> sure or you can re-code bananas to have an "advertisements" category :DDD
16:53:19 <andythenorth> we could just do thing
16:53:22 <andythenorth> nothing
16:53:29 <peter1138> just upload more more of your own grfs to get it off the list
16:53:35 <michi_cc> V453000: And just in case you do manage to post, the matching thread is
16:54:01 <andythenorth> seems a bit weird though, acting as a funnel to a third party data harvesting site
16:54:08 <peter1138> maybe r24983 has more meaning for you guys now?
16:54:21 <V453000> that is ridiculous
16:54:40 <V453000> uploading dummy newGRFs instead of real newGRFs is seriously wrong
16:55:02 <Bad_Brett> i agree
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16:55:06 <V453000> just stupid walking around and abusing bananas imo
16:55:43 <planetmaker> it would be more acceptable, if they used the same grfID
16:55:53 <planetmaker> as the newgrf which they advertize
16:56:22 <planetmaker> but of course no-one ever thought about actually talking... with the bad guys
16:56:36 <planetmaker> who make the game they mod
16:57:07 <michi_cc> planetmaker: They mod TTDPatch, OpenTTD is just an accident.
16:57:09 <V453000> they are even different IDs?
16:57:13 <V453000> I thought it is at least matching
16:57:37 <planetmaker> nope
16:57:56 <planetmaker> michi_cc, then the bananas additions are spam
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17:00:16 <michi_cc> It's not working anyway, as, if the simuscape download counters can be trusted, the linked file was only downloaded 5 times so far.
17:01:58 <planetmaker> The most annoying thing is they don't use the proper grfID. Using the proper grfID with action14 version=0 would allow the "real" grf to be shown only when available. This way it really is spam ingame for the newgrf lists
17:02:17 <planetmaker> something which needs filtering even when their approach works. Which is highly annoying
17:02:32 <peter1138> heh, and the radio is playing... beastie boys - sabotage
17:02:38 <planetmaker> :-)
17:04:33 <planetmaker> bbl
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17:13:38 <V453000> two words, fuck simuscape
17:16:11 <Bad_Brett> i don't get it... what's the point? surely less people will find their grf's that way, right?
17:20:03 <V453000> I mean, if at least the website of the newGRF was the page with the actual download
17:20:15 <V453000> but no it gets you to main page from where "find it, good luck"
17:20:24 <V453000> but no
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17:23:16 <Bad_Brett> i think it's a bit funny though
17:23:57 <Bad_Brett> new tunnel entrances? really?
17:24:45 <Bad_Brett> i ett thousands of people will register to get a chance to play with that
17:24:47 <Bad_Brett> *bet
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17:41:45 * andythenorth has done a bit of thinking
17:41:58 <andythenorth> this BK grf thing is just 'meh'
17:42:03 <andythenorth> let it be
17:42:12 <andythenorth> not a thing to try and solve
17:44:00 <peter1138> wquite
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17:45:18 <andythenorth> could amend the ToS and say things like 'no dependency on downloading things not in Bananas'
17:45:21 <andythenorth> but really, mhe
17:45:32 <V453000> exactly, BK thing is meh
17:45:41 <V453000> but as he said explicitly, he will do it with many other newGRFs too
17:45:46 <V453000> and that will be a massive mess
17:45:56 <andythenorth> [shrug]
17:45:59 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, did using the scaled sizes for sprite solve your issue?
17:46:35 <Bad_Brett> what does scaled sizes mean exactly?
17:47:04 <V453000> I really think the ToS should be enhanced by an answer to this newly discovered hole it had
17:47:29 <Bad_Brett> the z1 sprites are always about 1/2 the size of the z0 sprite... same with the offsets...
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17:48:03 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, taking the sprite sizes of the normal zoom level, the sprite sizes of other zoom levels have to be scaled exactly (for the child sprites)
17:49:10 <andythenorth> V453000: it's a can of legalistic worms
17:49:23 <andythenorth> there are a hundred holes I could pick in any proposal you make
17:49:32 <andythenorth> it's TMWFTLB by some measure
17:49:52 <andythenorth> and will result in yet more drama
17:49:53 <NGC3982> Evening.
17:49:57 <V453000> well yes of course, but the other holes dont seem to hurt anyone atm
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17:58:57 <Bad_Brett> planetmaker: some sprites have odd dimensions... such as 253x253
17:59:08 <Bad_Brett> do you think this could cause the problem?
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17:59:40 <Bad_Brett> because these numbers will round down when i make the smaller versions
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18:00:52 <Bad_Brett> 253->126->63->31->15->7
18:01:00 <Bad_Brett> but if you go the other way:
18:01:38 <Bad_Brett> 7->14->28->56->112->224
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18:04:02 <Bad_Brett> so... when I add the z5 sprite, the game expects that the z0 sprite to be 224 pixels high, when it's really 253 pixels high?
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18:05:30 <Bad_Brett> so making sure that the z0 sprite has a number which can be divided by 2 five times should solve the problem?
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18:21:26 <Bad_Brett> oh well... guess i have to modify my sprite splitter so that the sprites always have "good" dimensions
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18:25:52 <michi_cc> Bad_Brett: It's 253->127->64->32->16->8 as scaling down is done with rounding up and not rounding down.
18:26:53 <Bad_Brett> well i was talking about my algorithm... my mistake :)
18:27:30 <Bad_Brett> anyway... it illustrates the problem... i think you're right
18:27:33 <michi_cc> So of your z0 sprite is only 7 pixels, the game will either increase the offset or the width (depending on which side the pixel is missing) and pad the sprite. If it changes the offset, your child sprite moves.
18:28:02 <Bad_Brett> yeah...
18:28:33 <Bad_Brett> i will try to use sprites with "better" dimensions and see if it does the trick
18:28:57 <michi_cc> For child sprites the important thing is that the xoffs/yoffs chain scales properly, the width/height don't really matter.
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18:29:57 <Bad_Brett> alright
18:30:01 <Bad_Brett> i'll try it tonight
18:30:08 <Bad_Brett> thanks
18:34:35 <Bad_Brett> by the way, does this cause any other problems in the game or can i simply adjust the offsets of the childsprite to fix this issue?
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18:46:37 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24989 /trunk/src/lang (5 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-12 18:46:26 UTC)
18:46:38 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:39 <DorpsGek> afrikaans - 53 changes by YsterVuis
18:46:40 <DorpsGek> danish - 4 changes by Elias
18:46:41 <DorpsGek> greek - 9 changes by Evropi
18:46:42 <DorpsGek> hebrew - 3 changes by yitzc
18:46:43 <DorpsGek> thai - 50 changes by khao9999
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19:11:34 <andythenorth> hmm
19:11:47 <andythenorth> is it time to learn python class inheritance?
19:12:03 <Supercheese> Sounds like a caste system
19:12:12 <Supercheese> You shall be of the same class as thy parent
19:12:41 <Supercheese> Noble code, peasant code
19:12:45 <Supercheese> :P
19:12:52 <planetmaker> :D
19:13:40 <Alberth> Python allows stepping outside castes then :)
19:17:47 <Alberth> if an object behaves as an instance of some class, it is an instance of that class, no matter where the object really comes from
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19:20:08 <andythenorth> hmm 75km ropeway
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19:21:50 <Alberth> who needs tracks when you can use rope :p
19:21:54 <Alberth> hi Wolf01
19:21:54 <Wolf01> hi ho
19:22:53 <Supercheese> aerial tramways for OTTD? isn't there a grf for that?
19:23:04 <Supercheese> Swissfan project or so
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19:27:11 <andythenorth> hmm
19:27:29 <andythenorth> should I just call it FISH 2?
19:27:46 * Supercheese would actually like aerial tramways in OTTD
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19:28:03 <Supercheese> very eyecandy, and useful for steep slopes
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19:33:34 <andythenorth> FISH (30CC Edition)
19:33:45 <Supercheese> FEESH
19:33:46 <andythenorth> making a whole new grf is lame
19:33:53 <andythenorth> which is what you all said anyway
19:35:04 <andythenorth> so you can all just be correct ;)
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19:36:41 <Supercheese> Osteichthyes.grf
19:41:09 <andythenorth> I should kill this web-based FISH configuration managing thingy
19:41:13 <andythenorth> it's too much string
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19:43:29 <andythenorth> naming convention for ships?
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19:43:48 <andythenorth> FISH had maritime meterological area names
19:44:32 <andythenorth> ah got one
19:44:37 <andythenorth> you can guess what it is later
19:47:46 * Alberth guesses a body of water
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20:12:49 <andythenorth> it's oh so quiet
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20:20:14 <Bad_Brett> sscchhhh sscchhhhh
20:31:06 <Supercheese> I just broke OpenOffice
20:31:08 <Supercheese> horribly
20:31:44 <peter1138> it does that
20:33:18 <TinoDidriksen> Use LO instead.
20:34:30 <Supercheese> which is?
20:36:41 <TinoDidriksen> Libre Office
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20:39:03 <Supercheese> Huh, I didn't even realize there was a fork
20:39:11 * Supercheese has not been paying attention
20:39:16 <peter1138> Yeah, Oracle isn't all that FOSS-friendly
20:39:30 <Supercheese> Yes, switching seems desirable
20:39:33 * Supercheese downloads
20:39:39 <peter1138> the issue was resolved
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21:11:54 <frosch123> night
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22:24:10 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: hydrofoils - remind me why you think later intro dates (and suggest some)?
22:24:23 <andythenorth> (there are two, 106 pax and 240 pax)
22:24:37 <Eddi|zuHause> because they are (IMHO) very overpowered
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22:27:57 <Eddi|zuHause> and i think the last suggestion was 2020-ish
22:32:19 <andythenorth> k
22:32:21 <andythenorth> ta
22:32:24 <andythenorth> good night
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22:35:42 <Eddi|zuHause> ¿Qué tal?
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23:35:27 <Wolf01> 'night
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23:48:51 <Bad_Brett> finally i managed to create a formula that seems to work...
23:49:04 <Supercheese> sprite offsets are blah
23:49:37 <Supercheese> anything that works for you, stick with it
23:50:34 <Bad_Brett> abs(spriteheight-1)*2^5-childspriteposition
23:50:40 <Bad_Brett> who would have guessed?
23:50:48 <Supercheese> @______@
23:50:57 <Bad_Brett> no i mean
23:51:07 <Bad_Brett> abs(z5_spriteheight-1)*2^5-childspriteposition
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23:51:34 <Bad_Brett> i want the past two nights back
23:53:48 <Bad_Brett> but i must admit that it looks quite nice
23:57:02 <Bad_Brett> i refuse to set any offsets manually! :P
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