IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-02-01
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00:24:10 <Supercheese> "Transfer and wait for any full load with auto-refit to available cargo"
00:24:13 <Supercheese> Gets a bit wordy
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00:56:01 <Flygon> It's not wordy
00:56:03 <Flygon> It's Treky!
00:56:11 <Flygon> In fact
00:56:20 <Flygon> It sounds just like something from the bridge of the Enterprise
00:57:13 <peter1138> hm
00:58:44 <Supercheese> You could abbreviate it as T&WAFLw/AR2AC :P
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01:11:49 <peter1138> YCAIA
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01:52:13 <Flygon> YOLO
02:02:48 <peter1138> if you're a cat, YOLTT
02:03:02 <Supercheese> Ten? Not nine?
02:03:22 <peter1138> thrice thrice
02:04:11 <Supercheese> I see...
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02:22:48 <Flurret> I'ma part cat :P
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04:16:32 <Supercheese> Hmm I wonder why the early metal works industry isn't in FIRS Basic
04:16:38 <Supercheese> Iron Ore + Wood -> Metal
04:16:44 <Supercheese> all those cargoes are in basic...
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04:32:03 <peter1138> early metal works?
04:32:08 <peter1138> like 1000 BC?
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04:38:07 <Flygon> Man
04:38:19 <Flygon> peter1138: Pre-Christ GRF :P
04:38:33 <Flygon> Also, I really want Tram and Bus stations on Bridges D:
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04:40:37 <Pikka> cool, oftc let me in
04:41:02 <Pikka> early metal doesn't work, btw
04:45:03 <Pikka> hmm
04:45:13 <Supercheese> ?
04:45:29 <Pikka> what with the declutter parameter I might want to extend the life of some of the smaller tank locos in UKRS2...
04:45:58 <Supercheese> Jinties and the like?
04:46:04 <Supercheese> Or would that be Jintys?
04:46:48 <Supercheese> 1890-1970, impressive lifetime
04:52:15 <Pikka> pannier tanks at least
04:52:43 <Pikka> with the declutter parameter they disappear in the mid 50s, when they should probably stay available until the diesels that replace them
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11:08:49 <peter1138> oh right, convert the game fully to c++
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11:27:10 <peter1138>
11:27:13 <peter1138> best ever
11:32:13 <Pikka> yes?
11:32:23 <peter1138> pikka :D
11:32:52 <Pikka> does it?
11:32:59 <peter1138> what who
11:33:10 <Pikka> si
11:36:14 <Pikka> but the real question is
11:36:32 <Pikka> whither coffee icecream?
11:36:41 <peter1138> no
11:37:10 <peter1138>
11:37:15 <peter1138> so yeah, was that useful to you?
11:38:04 <Pikka> terrifying D;
11:38:15 <peter1138> yes
11:39:36 <peter1138> hmm, i dunno the order of the sprites off hand :p
11:49:53 <CornishPasty> Combines are evil, kill them with your crowbar!
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11:59:12 <__ln__> i see things in three
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12:02:54 <MNIM> I am terrible.
12:03:11 <MNIM> It's 2030 and Im FINALLY phasing out that steam service to a tourist attraction.
12:05:20 <Pinkbeast> That is terrible - build 5ATs and keep it going
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12:06:17 <MNIM> DB 01s actually
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12:08:23 <MNIM> Don't worry though, Im keeping 'em running
12:09:14 <peter1138> breakdowns off?
12:10:40 <MNIM> No
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12:56:02 <Bobjr> Hello"!
12:58:07 <Bobjr> I was hoping someone could answer a question of mine regarding valuables?
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13:04:36 <peter1138> try asking it
13:04:59 <Bobjr> Sorry
13:05:24 <Bobjr> I send a train of valuables in the appropriate train car from one town to the other, both who say they accept valuables
13:05:35 <Bobjr> However there is no profit, and if I force it to unload it just switches valuables
13:05:48 <Bobjr> That is unloads valuables with no profit, then loads new ones without profit
13:05:50 <Bobjr> What gives?
13:06:24 <peter1138> don't use unload or transfer orders
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13:06:51 <Flygon> MNIM: I've have always preffered a feature that allows you to have no breakdowns, but would increase the cost of maintainence instead ^^
13:07:20 <Bobjr> even without the unload order it just trades valuables for no money
13:08:52 <Pikka> post on the forums with a savegame, bobjr
13:09:12 <Pikka> easier than us trying to crystalball it
13:09:21 <Bobjr> Good point
13:10:57 <Bobjr> Alright thanks, have a good day guys!
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13:11:24 <Pikka> that got rid of him :D
13:13:34 <Flygon> I'd have suggested the use of Dropbox
13:38:03 <MNIM> hmmmh
13:39:55 <MNIM> does anyone know if 2CC E-locs have (reduced) running costs when being towed along a track without power?
13:48:03 <Pinkbeast> I could be wrong but I thought it was only UKRS2 that varied running costs with power output.
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13:51:32 <MNIM> hmmmh, shame.
13:52:51 <MNIM> could've exploited that to turn my slow turbine mountain trains into high speed trains on electrified flat land lines
13:54:35 <Flygon> Can locomotives be towed above max speed?
13:55:30 <MNIM> no, but they're not reaching max speed.
13:56:37 <Markk> Pinkbeast: 2cc does that as well.
13:57:13 <MNIM> oh, cool
13:57:51 <peter1138> Flygon, locos are never towed
13:58:08 <peter1138> Flygon, i lied, they're towed if they're unpowered i suppose
13:58:13 <Flygon> Well, yeah
13:58:15 <peter1138> but still
13:58:25 <Flygon> Can loco's in OpenTTD be towed by a diff loco above max speed?
13:58:31 <Flygon> As per MNIM's suggestion
13:58:36 <Flygon> In my expereince? No.
13:58:39 <peter1138> no
13:58:50 <Flygon> It'd be a nice feature, though
13:58:53 <peter1138> because max speed comes from all parts of the train
13:59:11 <Flygon> As in, locos having seperate max self-powered speed, and max towed speed
14:00:19 <Flygon> Anyway, brb
14:00:20 <Flygon> Dishes
14:00:48 <MNIM> that would only be if the drivetrain has a different max speed from the rolling part and can be decoupled from it
14:01:37 <Pinkbeast> Steam locomotives are usually towed with coupling rods off so that's not totally unprecedented
14:09:06 <MNIM> Hmmmmh, I suppose, but would they have different towed/powered speeds?
14:28:24 <Flygon> Back
14:28:44 <Flygon> Pinkbeast: Yeah, Steam Locomotives were what were specifically in mind
14:29:07 <Flygon> I know that there's quite a few examples being towed faster than it could hope to achieve light engine
14:30:54 <Belugas> hello
14:31:48 <Flygon> Howdy
14:32:08 <Flygon> Can Electric tractioned locomotives be driven in 'neutral'?
14:34:42 <planetmaker> hello
14:34:58 <Pinkbeast> I believe so - diesels are sent to rescue stricken electrics and of course they have to be able to move them
14:35:54 <Sacro> Yes
14:35:57 <Sacro> of course they can
14:36:01 <Flygon> Oh, excellent
14:36:22 <Flygon> Then such a feature in OpenTTD isn't entirely unrealistic then, for neither steam, nor diesel, nor electric
14:36:38 <Flygon> Though, somehow removing driving rods @ 96km/h would be a worry :P
14:36:50 <Sacro> I'm not sure towing a steam loco is that simple
14:37:07 <Flygon> Eh, a Steam loco towing a Diesel is simple, though
14:37:20 <Sacro> true
14:37:35 <Pinkbeast> Sacro: well, taking the coupling rods off is a job for a fitter. It wouldn't be done routinely.
14:37:50 <Flygon> West Coast Railways had Steam Locomotives fitted with DMU controls so that the locomotive could be accelerated far faster, or so that it could be pushed in case of steam locomotive failure
14:38:15 <Flygon> And the Steam loco regularly went over 120km/h, which is over 20km/h faster than the T/P-class Diesels they often used
14:38:34 <Flygon> Though, it was in the OSpeed range of the S and B classes they sometimes used
14:41:13 <Flygon> Pre-WCR days, though, V/Line would just run the R-class steamers solo for crew training (no Diesel), keep in mind, this's the late 80s, early 90s
14:46:16 <Terkhen> hello
14:47:45 <Flygon> Yo
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15:30:54 <MNIM> ouch
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15:31:00 <MNIM> there goes my death toll again
15:31:15 <MNIM> 916 die in a (slow) collision
15:31:55 <goodger> I do like TTD's magic fireballs
15:32:26 <TinoDidriksen> TTD: Hollywood Edition
15:32:45 <MNIM> hahaha
15:32:48 <MNIM> so it seems
15:35:12 <Flygon> MNIM: I once rear ended a woman below 5km/h. She charged me for her headlights.
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15:37:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: you realize that fraud is a serious crime?
15:38:12 <Flygon> Eddi: It wasn't the only seemingly frivirlous thing that she charged $1300 for
15:38:20 <Flygon> But it didn't occour to us at the time that we could sue her
15:38:40 <Flygon> Only damage I saw was some dints on her rear bumper
15:38:54 <Flygon> If anything, my car got the worst damage. Some paint scraped off it.
15:39:20 <Flygon> If she was driving a Magna, like I was, she'd have been smart enough to just not give a $*(@ and drive off @_@
15:39:40 <Flygon> Magna's: Australia's disposable car
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17:02:00 <NGC3982> In ~/.openttd, i have several configs i have named openttd_config1/2/3, and so on.
17:02:26 <NGC3982> If i start a game with openttd -D -c <path+filename> it (as it should starts the game with the cfg file.
17:02:57 <NGC3982> If i then shut the game down, and start it again with a new <path+filename>, it writes the data from the old config file onto the new one.
17:03:04 <peter1138> that sentence is broken
17:03:16 <NGC3982> Oh, yes.
17:03:40 <NGC3982> Bah, i shouldn't do this right now. I'm so tired and i have the most massive of headaches
17:03:44 <NGC3982> Never mind.
17:04:13 <peter1138> but it won't be overwriting configs like that
17:05:00 <NGC3982> It does something.
17:05:19 <NGC3982> Ill retry it step by step
17:05:25 <NGC3982> After i have calmed down a bit.
17:06:44 <peter1138> if you start a game with -c blah it'll only ever overwrite that file
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17:13:45 <NGC3982> Let's see then.
17:18:46 <NGC3982> I copy the new file to ~/.openttd. I view it with nano, at it seems correct. I start the game with openttd -D -c <path+file>, i enter the game on my windows computer. i notice that no grfs are loaded, but the dedicated server window does not give any indication of error.
17:19:19 <NGC3982> I then close the server and open the very same config file with nano, at it has been over-written with the original openttd.cfg content.
17:19:36 <NGC3982> If that is what's going to happend, i have for missjudged the man or something.
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17:20:17 <NGC3982> My next experiment will be to remove all cfg files, add only one, and try again.
17:20:28 <ni291187> what is this
17:20:33 <ni291187> wheree am i
17:20:46 <Pinkbeast> NGC: add all config files to version control now
17:20:53 <ni291187> are you guys open ttd junkies
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17:21:44 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: That subversion thingy?
17:21:53 <Pinkbeast> Whatever your preferred VCS is.
17:22:25 <NGC3982> Well, i have no idea, and i have never heard of it before. I found it on the site just now. Ill read trough it.
17:22:37 <Pinkbeast> Oh, god, you're a Windows user?
17:22:51 <Pinkbeast> Er well write a batch file that copies all your config files somewhere or something.
17:23:05 <NGC3982> Normally, yes. I have just started using Debian as my server system.
17:23:15 <NGC3982> Err
17:23:17 <Pinkbeast> Didn't take my advice, huh?
17:23:29 <NGC3982> Well, heh.
17:23:57 <NGC3982> Actually, most people i talked to prefered Debian over Ubuntu. Though, i guess you are correct in that Ubuntu might be a better choise for beginners like me.
17:24:16 <MNIM> Try Mint instead
17:24:24 <Pinkbeast> I prefer Debian for me, but then I have been a Unix sysadmin for a wee while.
17:24:24 <MNIM> it's like Ubuntu, except not sucky.
17:24:29 <NGC3982> I will not change operating system just like that.
17:24:32 <NGC3982> That's asking for trouble.
17:24:58 <MNIM> Muh. Ubuntu to mint shouldn't be too hard.
17:25:42 <MNIM> I've done it once.
17:25:49 <NGC3982> That is not important when i have just learned using the basics of this operating system :)
17:26:00 <NGC3982> But yes, i will consider it if this doesn't work out.
17:27:15 <peter1138> Hi
17:28:17 <peter1138> NGC3982, stick with it. it honestly won't be any better with a different distribution
17:28:35 <NGC3982> Yes, i guess so.
17:28:40 <peter1138> they all have their quirks, people recommend whichever because they're used to the quirks and they don't realise they're quirky
17:29:02 <NGC3982> Let's see. I have removed all of the config files and added an original openttd.cfg (with a NewGRF list).
17:29:36 <NGC3982> peter1138: That sounds logical.
17:30:02 <peter1138> and the stuff you're dealing with now isn't anything distro specific anyway
17:30:11 <NGC3982> Hm, allright. It started the server (with no error message) with no NewGRF's. Time to investigate the config file.
17:30:16 <NGC3982> Indeed.
17:30:33 <NGC3982> ..And it replaced it
17:30:39 <NGC3982> With a non-existant file.
17:31:07 <peter1138> no
17:31:27 <peter1138> openttd removes the lines from the config cos they didn't exist
17:31:28 <NGC3982> Where "non-existant" is the file i removed just before starting the server.
17:31:30 <peter1138> it's kinda annoying
17:31:36 <NGC3982> Uhm, ok
17:31:46 <peter1138> basically they're not loaded
17:31:52 <NGC3982> But no, it did -add- the stuff from the old config file
17:31:53 <peter1138> when you exit it saves the config as it is
17:32:07 <peter1138> but because they're weren't loaded, they're not in memory, therefore they're not saved
17:32:11 <Pinkbeast> NGC: of course this stuff about quirks is not why I recommended to you what I did.
17:32:23 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: I understand that. :)
17:32:44 <NGC3982> I need to pastebin this process.
17:32:46 <peter1138> vcs *is* a good idea for configs
17:32:57 <peter1138> that's why openttd should use .config
17:33:02 <peter1138> so we can just have .config in vcs
17:33:05 <Pinkbeast> And for any file that some helpful program might blow away under your feet
17:33:05 <peter1138> and /etc of course
17:33:19 <peter1138> Pinkbeast, do you vcs your whole system? :D
17:33:29 <NGC3982> Well, shouldnt i first make sure that the error isnt user-made?
17:33:38 * NGC3982 puts the entire story in a pastebin
17:34:26 <Pinkbeast> Not yet.
17:34:42 <Pinkbeast> Also here I'm on a snapshotting filesystem which makes one _ever_ so lazy
17:40:32 <peter1138> heh
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17:45:28 <NGC3982>
17:45:31 <NGC3982> Here is the full scenario.
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17:52:41 <NGC3982> Bah, i have no idea on what's going on anymore.
17:53:44 <Pinkbeast> I'm afraid I am not qualified to help you with this.
17:54:06 <NGC3982> But VCS is ..something that can?
17:54:17 <NGC3982> It looks like a bug report system
17:54:27 <NGC3982> I'm actually not sure if it's a bug, or if i'm just wrong.
17:54:39 <Alberth> vcs keeps track of all versions of files you ever gave it to it
17:54:56 <NGC3982> Ah, i see.
17:55:42 <Alberth> and you can give a message with each change, which is usually a line "I changed this and this because ..."
17:56:01 * NGC3982 tries.
17:56:16 <Alberth> and later you can look back at how you changed exactly what when,and why
17:58:11 <Alberth> so it takes away the boring administration of which versions you exactly have
17:59:00 <Alberth> and of course you can go back to a previous version, make a copy, revert back to it, etc etc
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18:00:58 <NGC3982> I see.
18:01:30 <NGC3982> I do not understand this. Removing Openttd with apt-get remove (openttd and openttd-data) doesn't remove anything.
18:03:37 <Alberth> are the files owned by the package manager?
18:04:06 <Alberth> (I don't run debian, so I don't know details here)
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18:04:47 <NGC3982> they are owned by a user, and i removed them with sudo.
18:10:39 <NGC3982> I removed the entire .openttd folder and re-installed it
18:10:43 <NGC3982> Of course, that did not work
18:10:49 <NGC3982> I'm seriosly only making it worse
18:16:42 <Alberth> perhaps you should explain what you're aiming for :)
18:17:25 <NGC3982> I fixed it.
18:17:28 <NGC3982> At least this error.
18:18:17 <NGC3982> I couldn't remove it, so i rm-rf:d it, installed the wrong version with apt-get, removed the wrong version with apt-get (to get the correct lib's so i could:), installed the new version with dpkg.
18:18:31 <NGC3982> So now, i'm at square one, a default OpenTTD install that works.
18:18:41 <peter1138> o_O
18:19:13 <peter1138> packages are never owned or installed as a user
18:19:30 <peter1138> running openttd as a user will never mess with the installaion
18:19:42 <peter1138> there is no need to uninstall and reinstall to "fix things"
18:20:28 <peter1138> so what's the difference between openttd_advertise1.cfg and openttd_UKRS.cfg ?
18:21:40 <Sacro> peter1138: man diff
18:21:49 <NGC3982> peter1138: I wanted to reinstall the game, so i could make sure the problem was not on my side.
18:22:05 <NGC3982> The UKRS config contains two NewGRF files, and Advertise1 contains a 20-ish.
18:22:06 <Sacro> rm -r ~/.openttd
18:22:18 <NGC3982> Both files are tested in a Windows system, and seems to work there.
18:23:57 <NGC3982> The NewGRF's are the only thing that separate the contents of both files.
18:24:36 <peter1138> "openttd_UKRS.cfg" does now look exactly like "openttd_advertise1.cfg". It has during the server start/stop been overwritten with the old file.
18:24:42 <peter1138> that cannot happen
18:25:11 <peter1138> there game will not have magically loaded a different config file
18:25:18 <peter1138> and then saved it over the one specified
18:25:28 <NGC3982> Well, it does. I have re-tried this five times, and i will now do it again.
18:26:00 <NGC3982> I'm sure -i- am the problem. It's not like i'm saying OpenTTD is magic.
18:26:15 <NGC3982> But i can't get past it, even when i closely follow my own actions.
18:29:50 <NGC3982> I now tried with two files: openttd.cfg (default) and openttd2.cfg. The only difference was the starting_year. That worked.
18:45:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24953 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/tamil.txt (2013-02-01 18:45:10 UTC)
18:45:18 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:19 <DorpsGek> tamil - 94 changes by aswn
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18:46:07 <NGC3982> peter1138: Reinstalling OpenTTD makes me unable to re-make the file-writer-issue.
18:46:15 <NGC3982> It does seem to work as it should.
18:46:25 <peter1138> no, it just means you did something wrong before
18:46:37 <peter1138> reinstalling openttd installs it exactly as it was installed before
18:46:38 <NGC3982> Yes, i guess so.
18:46:46 <peter1138> users cannot modify those files
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19:03:07 <NGC3982> Where can i check the status for the Master Server?
19:03:20 <NGC3982> I guess there is none, since i never heard of any problems with it :)
19:04:45 <Alberth> moin andy
19:05:48 <andythenorth> bonsoir
19:08:27 <Supercheese> Andy, any reason the Iron Works was excluded from Temperate Basic? Iron Ore and Wood are both defined in basic...
19:16:24 <andythenorth> Supercheese: because it's Basic?
19:16:50 <Supercheese> Well, true enough
19:17:15 <Supercheese> I liked the Iron Works --> Steel Mill transition as the years progressed
19:17:36 <andythenorth> there might be a case for it, as there is no metal chain before a certain date
19:17:45 <andythenorth> but then again, the Iron Works is nearly pointless imho
19:18:03 <Supercheese> It has pretty graphics :P
19:18:10 <andythenorth> that's why it's included
19:18:23 <andythenorth> I like the iron pigs flowing and cooling
19:18:28 <Supercheese> aye :)
19:18:29 <andythenorth> and I like Dan's building
19:18:37 <andythenorth> hmm
19:18:46 <andythenorth> the v2.0 thread is a gift that keeps on giving
19:18:48 <andythenorth> "as well as features from TTDP (might as well bring everyone to work on one game)"
19:18:55 <andythenorth> so we'd gain....0 developers?
19:18:56 <Supercheese> Everyone *is* working on one game
19:19:03 <Supercheese> Nobody's TTDPing
19:19:25 <andythenorth> because th CF is broken
19:19:33 <andythenorth> my typing is broken
19:19:42 <andythenorth> I have like 20% accuraacy
19:20:26 <Supercheese> Sometimes it feels like the English language itself has less than 20% accuracy, when following its own "rules" anyway
19:20:57 <Supercheese> i before e, except 50% of the time when it isn't
19:23:10 <andythenorth> MP GS?
19:23:13 <andythenorth> frosch123? ^
19:23:18 <andythenorth> NoCarGoal?
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19:25:14 <frosch123> andythenorth: if you prepare the game :p
19:25:23 <andythenorth> ugh
19:25:25 <Wolf01> hello
19:25:26 <andythenorth> then it's my fault :P
19:25:46 <andythenorth> have we got a nightly serverer?
19:25:53 <andythenorth> peter1138 ^ ?
19:26:15 <frosch123> r24876 is running
19:26:22 <frosch123> no idea what's the state of the game there
19:26:24 <andythenorth> k I'll make it with that
19:26:51 <frosch123> wow, that revision is one month old
19:26:56 <andythenorth> Alberth planetmaker Hirundo Terkhen et al playing?
19:27:03 <frosch123> maybe we can recruit planetmaker :)
19:27:32 <peter1138> hmm
19:27:36 <peter1138> sorry busy coding
19:27:47 <Terkhen> sorry, we are going to have a small celebration soon :P
19:28:13 <andythenorth> if I use UKRS2 will I be moaned at?
19:28:30 <andythenorth> ach, my game, my rules :P
19:28:43 * Terkhen suggests that everyone complains about the NewGRF selection no matter what it is
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19:31:14 <Alberth> andythenorth: +1
19:31:23 <andythenorth> how many playing? Affects the goal :P
19:31:29 <andythenorth> frosch123: got a record of previous goals?
19:31:34 <frosch123> andythenorth: "+1" wrt the complaining? :p
19:31:46 <andythenorth> yeah, figures
19:31:52 <frosch123>
19:31:55 <andythenorth> 7 years, NoCarGoal
19:32:02 <andythenorth> no Zuu?
19:32:03 <andythenorth> meh
19:32:28 <Alberth> +1 for playing actually, but you're free to interpret it orherwise ;)
19:32:33 <NGC3982> I guess the solution to "i want to host more servers on one computer" is simply using a new port per server?
19:32:50 <frosch123> yes
19:32:58 * NGC3982 tries.
19:33:00 <frosch123> but why do you want to host multiple servers?
19:33:11 <frosch123> it's not like there are too few
19:33:22 <frosch123> and everyone runs one for himself anyway
19:33:34 <frosch123> or do you want to play on multiple servers in parallel yourself? :)
19:33:49 <Alberth> he's cold, and needs some work for all those idle CPUs :)
19:34:08 <NGC3982> frosch123: Both!
19:35:08 <NGC3982> It's not that i have something else to do.
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19:46:30 <NGC3982> Aaaand it worked.
19:47:08 <NGC3982> peter1138: I will have to excuse myself. Linux has always been a nail in the eye for me, and i always have a hard time orienting myself within it.
19:47:16 <NGC3982> Your patience has been greatly appreciated.
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19:54:19 <oskari89> Why town-owned road cannot be one-wayed?
19:55:02 <oskari89> And when i click tramway on road-bridge, why the tramway applies from other bridge head only?
19:57:13 <NGC3982> oskari89: On your first question: The town owns the road, and does not want you to change it.
19:58:26 <andythenorth> need more players for this MP game :P
19:58:44 <andythenorth> I set quite a high goal
19:58:59 <NGC3982> What are the stakes?
19:59:33 <Markk> Your soul.
19:59:45 <NGC3982> I'm in.
20:00:01 <Supercheese> Medium rare
20:00:06 <Supercheese> Oh wait, stakes
20:00:09 <Supercheese> :P
20:00:18 <NGC3982> 'Merica.
20:04:04 <NGC3982> Doesn't the parameter numbers for a NewGRF change the "button" parameters?
20:04:51 <NGC3982> Since, this configuration ( shows all the "Provide X" options as red in the actual server game.
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20:08:18 <planetmaker> hm :-)
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20:11:57 <NGC3982>
20:12:10 <NGC3982> Here it what it looks like in the actual game.
20:13:35 <Supercheese> That is kinda strange
20:14:18 <NGC3982>
20:14:28 <NGC3982> And this is how it looks in the NewGRF part of the cfg in use.
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20:16:01 <Supercheese> Lemme see if I can replicate that behavior
20:17:00 <NGC3982> Want me to upload the config?
20:17:03 <NGC3982> The server is at
20:17:13 <Supercheese> Is it only with that .grf?
20:18:15 <NGC3982> As for now, yes. I have not tried any other NewGRF.
20:18:38 <Supercheese> I'm not seeing it here...
20:18:39 <NGC3982> The parameter works for the other server (at with UKRS2.
20:18:40 <Supercheese> odd
20:18:59 <NGC3982> And you are using 0.3.0?
20:20:38 <Supercheese> I see your problem
20:20:51 <Supercheese> 0 14 0 0 ≠ 0 1 4 0 0
20:20:57 <NGC3982> Oh!
20:21:00 <Supercheese> Note the space, fourteen vs 4 1
20:21:21 <NGC3982> Indeed. It worked out nicely.
20:21:23 <NGC3982> Thank you.
20:21:25 <Supercheese> amazing what one bit of whitespace will do :)
20:21:34 <NGC3982> Hehe
20:21:45 <NGC3982> I can barely see that on this little monitor
20:24:10 <Supercheese> Derp, fourteen vs. 1 4
20:24:18 <Supercheese> Well, you understood me anyway :D
20:24:31 <NGC3982> Yes, i did. :)
20:24:39 <Supercheese> Crazy typo O_o
20:25:13 <NGC3982> I did not even see the typo
20:25:26 <NGC3982> Wich might also explain why i did not see the 14.
20:25:29 <NGC3982> 1 4*.
20:25:29 <NGC3982> ..
20:25:41 <Supercheese> heehee
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20:44:07 <luke_> hey ya'll
20:44:52 <luke_> bye everyone
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20:54:11 <Terkhen> good night
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21:16:49 <planetmaker> boah, Pikka you really don't want anyone to even find signals on tracks with your finescale tracks, right?
21:19:31 <peter1138> that's what 2x view is for :p
21:20:04 <peter1138> i find huge signals ugly as
21:20:18 <planetmaker> I don't even recognize or see them at 4x°
21:20:34 <planetmaker> it's a dot in the same shade as the tracks...
21:20:45 <planetmaker> just faintly different colour
21:20:52 <planetmaker> with an invisible post...
21:21:25 <planetmaker> I see the signals somewhat when the backside is visible. But frontisde... no chance
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21:56:37 <ComLock> Hi
21:56:52 <ComLock> Any developers here, I need some help with those widgets
22:01:34 <ComLock> I need talk on the dev channel
22:01:59 <ComLock> How can I trigger UpdateWidgetSize
22:02:12 <ComLock> from DrawWidget
22:02:18 <ComLock> or is that bad idea
22:04:47 <planetmaker> InvalidateWindowData
22:05:07 <planetmaker> But... DrawWidget doesn't resize anything. It shouldn't
22:05:58 <ComLock> hmm
22:06:43 <michi_cc> planetmaker: Some windows do (well, from OnPaint mostly). It's not the best idea, so avoid it if you can.
22:07:00 <michi_cc> If you really must, use ReInit() (check IndustryViewWindow::OnPaint).
22:07:04 <planetmaker> michi_cc, I'm aware, yes. But... as you say :-)
22:07:31 <planetmaker> it's there rather for hysterical raisons. Rather than sense
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22:08:13 <michi_cc> In that case it is because it displays arbitrary NewGRF strings that can change each paint.
22:08:16 <ComLock> lets say one has 2 WWT_PANEL in NWID_VERTICAL
22:08:27 <ComLock> the top one is vertically resizeable
22:08:33 <ComLock> the bottom is not
22:08:57 <ComLock> However I calculate the bottom height based on width
22:09:54 <michi_cc> Do that calculation in OnResize if you can.
22:09:56 <ComLock> So some times I want to manually change the height of the bottom widget, giving/taking height from the upper one
22:10:35 <planetmaker> why you want to do that?
22:10:44 <michi_cc> Or via InvalidateWindowData if the size change is triggered by specific events.
22:11:22 <ComLock> but OnResize does not have any arguments (hmm,maybe I don't need them)
22:11:51 <ComLock> I need the width of the widget
22:12:17 <ComLock> I could store it in the window, but I guess it's avail somehow?
22:14:33 <Alberth> you may want to look at the smallmap legends panel
22:15:05 <planetmaker> :-) Listen to Alberth. He wrote the widget system
22:15:19 <frosch123> someone else recently played ottd? :p
22:15:32 <Alberth> planetmaker: like I know anything about it :p
22:15:37 <frosch123> how did you experience the new open-vehicle-gui-on-clone experience?
22:15:49 <frosch123> i am very much pondering just reverting it :p
22:16:20 <Alberth> FS#4458 has a PM about that I don't understand
22:16:28 <frosch123> it's too hard to clone vehicle multiple times, and i don't think a proper solution for it
22:16:32 <ComLock> Alberth, yes I'm doing the smallmap legend on the industry window:
22:16:59 <frosch123> Alberth: it's about opening the vehicle gui when cloning via the depot button
22:17:24 <frosch123> but not when there is already one clone waiting in the depot
22:17:38 <frosch123> i guess it might be just for using the clone button ni the newly built vehicle gui
22:17:45 <ComLock> Should we not talk in ???
22:18:01 <frosch123> ComLock: only when it is busy here
22:18:03 <andythenorth> frosch123: build one, open window, clone
22:18:04 <andythenorth> simples
22:18:09 <andythenorth> I got it straight away tbh
22:18:34 <andythenorth> avoids a billion useless windows
22:18:35 <frosch123> andythenorth: did you use the clone button from depot at some point?
22:18:40 <andythenorth> probably
22:18:46 <andythenorth> clone first, open window, clone more
22:18:48 <frosch123> maybe it should open the window when using the depot button
22:18:53 <andythenorth> maybe
22:18:54 <frosch123> but not when using it from the vehicle gui
22:19:03 <andythenorth> definitely not from vehicle gui
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22:19:07 <frosch123> (when there is already vehicle in the dpot, and you are cloning multiple)
22:19:18 <andythenorth> bear in mind I am ctrl-cloning nearly always
22:19:20 <andythenorth> for shared orders
22:19:27 <andythenorth> so opening windows for me is just boring
22:19:50 <frosch123> i almost never ctrl+cloned today :p
22:20:03 <Alberth> multiple clones in the depot is complicated, as the 'clone' is not sticking
22:20:05 <frosch123> build one ship, clone it and only replace the loading station order
22:20:10 <frosch123> while keeping the drop-off order
22:20:20 <Alberth> I do that too :)
22:21:06 <ComLock> michi_cc, I think IndustryViewWindow::OnPaint will help me
22:21:09 <Alberth> ComLock: how is sort of making a copy of the smallmap legend not working then?
22:21:41 <Alberth> ComLock: OnPaint sounds too late for sizing imho
22:21:51 <ComLock> Cause the smallmap legend has buttons which sets minimum height
22:22:33 <ComLock> Yes but if i can detect that width has changed, then I can trigger reinit
22:22:34 <Alberth> no, the heights of the industries legends are used too
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22:22:55 <Alberth> try loading FIRS with FIRS economy
22:22:56 <ComLock> Only for the fixed rows
22:23:09 <ComLock> I have firs loaded
22:23:11 <andythenorth> frosch123: I didn't look, did you run same kind of boats everywhere, or matched to Fish production?
22:23:54 <frosch123> i build a rather medium sized boat of like 80 tons
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22:24:02 <frosch123> and then varied the amount
22:24:09 <frosch123> the rockall one
22:24:10 <Alberth> ComLock: I wondered a few times whether the various industries should not have a different colour of text
22:24:23 <andythenorth> figures
22:24:30 <andythenorth> Alberth: that might be horrible :)
22:24:34 <andythenorth> contrast wise etc
22:24:46 <frosch123> yeah, text colours are bad :p
22:24:47 <michi_cc> ComLock: The industry legend data should only change if the industries change (i.e. on NewGRF reload), which can be handled with (On)InvalidateData. The legend itself can also change if the width of the window changes (because the user resized the window) and this case can be handled with OnResize.
22:24:52 <Alberth> perhaps, but all text the same is not very useful too
22:25:03 <ComLock> Alberth, smallmap seems to work
22:25:07 <frosch123> you can make the legend colour bigger
22:25:12 <ComLock> So I must have borked it along the way :)
22:25:13 <frosch123> and draw the text on top of it
22:25:26 <frosch123> we even have a pick white/black textcolour best matching contrast function
22:25:32 <ComLock> haven't programmed c or c++ in like 10 years, so I'm heavily frustrated
22:25:33 <frosch123> which we use in the staiton list for the cargo labels
22:25:59 <ComLock> Moose in perl is just a dream to work with in comparison
22:26:03 <Alberth> ComLock: try java for a week, and you'll find c++ heaven :p
22:26:05 <frosch123> but anyway, i don't think colours improve the smallmap
22:26:16 <frosch123> the blink on mouse over is more useful
22:26:22 <frosch123> and icons instead of colours might be cool
22:26:35 <Alberth> frosch123: I was talking about the text in the industry list
22:26:42 <frosch123> and well, what eddi suggested: supply/demand instead of industry type
22:26:57 <Alberth> <-- all entries look the same
22:26:59 <frosch123> Alberth: oh, did you see the filter patch then?
22:27:17 <Alberth> no, ComLock just posted that link
22:27:41 <frosch123> <- i liked that one more actually :p
22:28:17 <frosch123> i don't see any use in using colours in a list :o
22:28:50 <Alberth> so you can see what block of farms you have, and where the block of iron thingies starts
22:29:00 <frosch123> i also wonder about the "show only non-transported"
22:29:15 <frosch123> to me it feels that should rather be integrated into the "sorting critera"
22:29:44 <frosch123> like "production amount", "transported amount", "untransported amount", "transported percentage"
22:30:11 <frosch123> Alberth: yeah, ok, then a icon in front would be fine
22:30:17 <frosch123> but i don't think it needs a legend
22:30:20 <NGC3982> Don't watch the movie "Flight" while having a whiskey.
22:30:23 <frosch123> every line already says what it is
22:30:51 <Alberth> 2nd or 3rd seems unneeded, but yeah, seems useful to merge "show only non-transported" into the sort criteria
22:31:08 <frosch123> oh, and while we are talking about improving the list... the numbers should be aligned into columns
22:31:18 <frosch123> and without those silly parentheses
22:31:19 <Alberth> +0.9 :)
22:32:31 <Alberth> good night
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22:33:53 <frosch123> maybe the "type" thingie should be removed from the sorting criteria
22:34:08 <frosch123> instead there could be a toggle button whether to group same types or mix them
22:34:27 <frosch123> while keeping the selected amount or name criterion
22:36:51 <ComLock> sort and filter are two very different things...
22:38:10 <ComLock> I would also like ability to filter away industries without production
22:38:29 <ComLock> filter is much more effective than sort
22:38:35 <frosch123> ah, yeah, i see; i guess for secondary industries that makes sense
22:39:47 <ComLock> I find that I have not copied enough from smallmap
22:40:04 <ComLock> like SetupSmallestSize and AssignSizePosition
22:40:25 <ComLock> Clock is 23:40 here so bed time
22:40:33 <ComLock> l8r
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22:44:39 <andythenorth> bye
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22:57:38 <planetmaker> good night
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