IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-01-01
⏴ go to previous day
00:04:21 *** Strid__ has joined #openttd
01:54:03 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
03:41:23 *** Arafangion has joined #openttd
05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
06:33:54 *** LordPixaII has joined #openttd
07:12:35 *** RavingManiac has joined #openttd
07:23:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
07:25:58 *** RavingManiac_ has joined #openttd
08:10:32 <V453000> hm, is there any way to return the feature where cloning a vehicle opens the window of that vehicle?
08:14:33 <andythenorth> clone from the vehicle, not the depot?
08:14:40 <andythenorth> I'm in 2 minds about this change :P
08:16:09 <V453000> you cant clone so fast through depot
08:16:18 <V453000> you need at least one vehicle open
08:17:28 <V453000> and since you could just clone up to 20 trains or lock the depot/one train windows and clone endlessly .... the current solution isnt really helping anything, you just have to open that one train manually
08:19:49 <andythenorth> because depot clone is more clicks / target acquisition?
08:20:36 <andythenorth> so the really efficient, but totally hard to use behaviour: first clone opens a vehicle window, subsequent clones don't :P
08:20:40 <V453000> mainly the target acquisition
08:21:08 <V453000> yes that would be absolutely best :D
08:50:25 <planetmaker> and good morning :-)
08:51:15 <planetmaker> nah :-) Was a rather short night... but gonna go to the bakery... or we'll have no fresh bread
08:51:34 <Snail> I see :) but still dark here ;)
08:51:46 <planetmaker> open your eyes? ;-)
08:54:29 <V453000> that could be a problem
09:01:20 <Terkhen> happy new year and good morning :)
09:01:47 <V453000> happy morning and good year :)
09:15:13 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
09:15:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
09:29:43 *** RavingManiac has joined #openttd
09:47:20 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
09:47:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
09:54:08 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
10:14:59 *** Progman has joined #openttd
10:22:10 <Terkhen> time for yet another "christmas" family meal, bbl
10:52:38 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24877 /trunk/src (4 files in 4 dirs) (2013-01-01 10:52:32 UTC)
10:52:39 <DorpsGek> -Fix: some whitespace "errors"
10:57:15 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
11:08:28 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24878 /trunk/src (57 files in 4 dirs) (2013-01-01 11:08:22 UTC)
11:08:29 <DorpsGek> -Update: the obligatory first of January commit
11:54:34 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
12:21:33 *** Pensacola has joined #openttd
12:55:03 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd
12:55:18 <drac_boy> happy new year already? :P heh
12:59:44 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
13:00:34 <Flygon> drac_boy, it's the 2nd of Janurary
13:00:37 <Flygon> Get with the times, man
13:01:25 <Flygon> You could get us kicked!
13:01:26 <drac_boy> its the 1st .. and 08:01
13:01:36 <peter1138> Reliability: 0% Breakdowns since last service: 255
13:01:55 <Flygon> peter1138: New Borg cube having troubles?
13:12:14 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
13:17:16 <andythenorth> got a release yet drac_boy? :)
13:18:57 *** ntoskrnl has joined #openttd
13:24:07 <andythenorth> what does 2013 bring for pikkas?
13:24:41 <Pikka> werk, or sommat like that
13:25:01 <andythenorth> and scuddles food
13:25:09 <andythenorth> or is scuddles slef-supporint
13:33:40 * andythenorth has lego to make
13:33:50 <andythenorth> but has been thinking about a GS for pikka industries
13:33:53 <andythenorth> quite a simple one
13:33:57 <andythenorth> dunno how to write it :P
13:36:02 <Pikka> let me write the industries first :)
13:36:32 <andythenorth> TaI will have the same resource limit / closure stuff?
13:37:52 <Pikka> similar concept, very different implementation
13:41:23 <andythenorth> so TaI isn't good for some kind of mass-cargo goal
13:41:36 <andythenorth> maybe something simple, like 'keep industries x y and z alive for 100 years'
13:41:47 <andythenorth> and 'grow towns a b and c to some amount'
13:44:24 <andythenorth> herp, or people like me should just use a bit more imagination when playing
13:44:32 <andythenorth> ttd has always been a bit of a sandbox
13:45:34 * drac_boy treats it like a real transport game at times ;)
13:57:46 <Pokka> what has two wheels and flies?
13:57:51 <andythenorth> one of you is an imposter
13:59:06 *** Pokka is now known as Pikka
13:59:36 * andythenorth can't keep up with this social maelstrom
13:59:48 <andythenorth> puts me all topsy turvy
14:00:01 <andythenorth> anybody want to talk about trains?
14:00:05 <andythenorth> drac_boy probably does ;)
14:00:12 * drac_boy points you to flygon too
14:00:13 <Pikka> I wouldn't be surprised
14:00:33 <drac_boy> flygon always has these crazy stories about austrlia and crappy train runnings
14:00:43 <Flygon> I think 1600mm is brilliant
14:00:51 <Flygon> And find that two decks is the work of the devil
14:00:58 <Flygon> Also, Trams are the best thing since sliced bread
14:01:27 <Flygon> You might have seen our Trams exported to Edmonton, Seattle, San Francisco, as well as a few other American cities
14:01:51 <Flygon> And it makes me upset and angry there's no Aussie Tram GRF
14:02:01 <Flygon> Kjetil, you're an evil New South Welshmen
14:02:07 <Flygon> And I can say that legitemately
14:02:14 <Flygon> Because I'm half-New South Welsh
14:02:27 <Flygon> WITNESS THE DEVILS FLAMES OF HELL, FOR YOUR SATANIC WORDS! D:
14:03:36 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
14:05:38 <Flygon> Japanese rail is weird...
14:05:45 <Flygon> It looks so... industrial
14:05:54 <Flygon> Even the drawings, going by Pixiv
14:06:12 <Flygon> I upload a drawing of a Victorian Railways T-class... and, god
14:06:23 <Flygon> It looks nothing like anything else on the site
14:06:40 <Flygon> This is despite the T-class being a box on wheels
14:08:17 <Pikka> yes indeedy, tosaden is the best den.
14:09:17 <drac_boy> box on wheels = Toaster?
14:09:20 <Flygon> I've never seen such a flat-faced tram...
14:09:31 <Flygon> drac_boy: It actually does resemble a toaster
14:10:05 <drac_boy> flygon thats what they called similar things in europe and I think even uk as well
14:11:03 <Flygon> Pikka: I keep thinking you're Australia @_@"
14:12:18 <drac_boy> flygon btw I don't know which one it is yet but there was a diesel locomotive in uk named Shredder
14:12:27 <drac_boy> apparently that was what the silly exhaust sounded like
14:12:33 <drac_boy> shredding all the times :)
14:13:17 <Flygon> I search for 'Melbourne Tram' in YouTube... get instructions for how to drive around Trams
14:13:52 <Flygon> Probably because peeps forget you can't U-turn around a Tram track without looking at the tracks
14:14:37 <Flygon> To be fair, one thing I failed in my driving test was the tram bit
14:14:46 <FLHerne> drac_boy: We also have Choppers, Tractors and Whistlers :-)
14:15:02 <drac_boy> ah its class 33 apparently
14:15:24 <FLHerne> Interesting, I haven't heard that one before :P
14:15:27 <andythenorth> and gronks and sheds
14:15:36 <FLHerne> Everyone I know calls them Cromptons
14:15:50 <drac_boy> flherne the one I don't always get is 'skates' .. if they were so unreliable that they had to be used in pairs why did they even build them? :P
14:16:04 <drac_boy> gronks? let me guess, thats class 09?
14:16:25 <FLHerne> andythenorth: And Duffs and Bodysnatchers and Rats and McRats :P
14:16:34 <Flygon> I feel terrible. I'm actually learning from this video. How DID I get my license?
14:16:49 <drac_boy> FLHerne bodysnatchers? 0_o
14:17:39 <FLHerne> drac_boy: 57s. They basically took the bodyshell and bogies from 47s, stripped out the innards, and put new engines in
14:17:54 <Pikka> they put old engines in :)
14:18:18 <FLHerne> Pikka: New engines for the class, anyway
14:18:31 <drac_boy> flherne that sounds like some of the usa diesel locomotives that had extra letterings .. like eg GP9M instead of GP9 ... new engine, sometimes altered body as well
14:18:56 <drac_boy> andythenorth hoovers? as in "nothing sucks like it!" classic ads? :P
14:19:14 <drac_boy> the keyword being 'suck' is the other definition .. not that its up-to-no-good
14:21:17 <andythenorth> so wtf shall I do about FISH 2
14:21:21 <andythenorth> which is a bit of a shambles
14:21:42 <Pikka> redesign it from the ground up, or the water up if you prefer
14:21:49 <Pikka> you have the graphics, which is the tedious bit :)
14:22:00 <andythenorth> I already did that once :P
14:22:10 <andythenorth> then I started getting new graphics contributions :P
14:22:32 <Pikka> why do you still have all these 1870 intros then? :P
14:22:42 <Flygon> 1870 is a tad confusing
14:22:47 <Pikka> I think fish2 is alright
14:23:05 <andythenorth> ah I've figured out what's bugging me
14:23:11 <Pikka> but needs more smallish passenger vessels, early on
14:23:13 <Flygon> Also, we need a Meditteranian FISH... for 1000BC to 500AD
14:23:32 <andythenorth> I was thinking of redesigining it to accomodate all the contributions promised
14:23:38 <andythenorth> but then I might not get the contributions...
14:23:47 <andythenorth> a sprite in the hand is worth two in the...
14:23:50 <andythenorth> you get the idea
14:24:03 <Flygon> It's a shame a good artist is hard to find
14:24:48 <andythenorth> has anyone got a grf to v3?
14:24:50 <drac_boy> flygon depends which kind of sprites you want done? :)
14:25:15 <Flygon> drac_boy: Personally. Awstrawian Trains
14:25:19 <V453000> did I miss a train discussion?
14:25:22 <andythenorth> what version is AV8?
14:25:47 <Pikka> andythenorth, gabe newell syndrome
14:25:55 <Pikka> an inability to count to 3 :)
14:26:19 <Flygon> Problem is, all Australian trains look the same. We based designs off each other's designs... it's basically like breeding a single family of rabbits with each other for 40 years, and all you end up with is the same rabbits
14:28:06 <Pikka> otoh, we could take the firefox route and increment the major version number 8 times in 3 months, after not changing it for 3 years.
14:29:11 <Flygon> Pikka, double that 17, and you have the best FISH :)
14:30:49 * drac_boy thinks I am at something like 0.alpha-1 version or something :P
14:31:03 <Pikka> you mean there's a grf, drac_boy?
14:31:33 <drac_boy> useless individual-locos ones? :>
14:31:35 <andythenorth> what is it about anyway?
14:32:18 <drac_boy> that reminds me....should it be 0.alpha-1 or 0.1-alpha? :P
14:33:41 <andythenorth> who's making sugarcane railways?
14:34:00 <drac_boy> it already exists now andythenorth
14:34:01 <andythenorth> are we doing pantomine?
14:34:13 <andythenorth> where does it exist?
14:34:37 <Pikka> well, when pineappling I appraised cane trains
14:34:50 <drac_boy> HEQS ... although if you were looking for the specific wagons that look like oversized boxes on 2 axles loaded high up with sugar canes I don't think that exists yt
14:34:54 <V453000> slug slime trail rails are absolutely necessary andythenorth
14:36:03 <andythenorth> Pikka: because boring?
14:36:42 <Pikka> yes. also they operate "within" an industry, rather than between them
14:37:02 <andythenorth> hrm, not if you have FIRS :P
14:37:10 <andythenorth> not arguing though
14:37:40 <Pikka> true, I could have made cane farms and mills as seperate industries
14:38:21 <Pikka> but since cane is a very localised product - unlike wheat in the default industries - and mills are only located in the centre of cane-growing areas, it made more sense to just make a mill surrounded by fields
14:38:37 <Pikka> from a pineapple point of view
14:38:44 <drac_boy> pikka I ran into the same thing with certain industries I was looking up too
14:40:32 <Pikka> new file, tai_industry2.nfo D:
14:40:51 <Pikka> from the ground up, andythenorth ;)
14:41:16 <drac_boy> that reminds me, is there any limit to number of industry types or its only more or less limited by map sizes?
14:42:33 <drac_boy> alberth map size then?
14:43:01 <Pikka> I remember it being 37, goes to show how long it's been since I've done industries :)
14:43:25 <drac_boy> even 37 sounds a bit like a lot especially if theres several of each one
14:43:39 <Alberth> static const IndustryType NUM_INDUSTRYTYPES = 64; ///< total number of industries, new and old
14:43:46 <Pikka> how many are in FIRS? :)
14:44:13 <Pikka> I know whatever mb and george's industry set was called got to 37 very quickly
14:45:21 <drac_boy> I'm at 28 but have three marked to be deleted soon tho. not sure if there'll even be more
14:45:33 <Alberth> Pikka: I have 58 in my head, but I don't know how accurate that is
14:46:15 <Alberth> andy added and removed many industries :)
14:46:30 <Pikka> as a small map player, less is more :)
14:46:51 <Pikka> if you have 64 industry types, you're not going to get more than one of each on the map...
14:47:02 <drac_boy> pikka heh I need to fit 256x256 by default anyway :P nothing stopping from a decent larger map too tho
14:47:23 <Alberth> FIRS is not designed for small maps, although having one of each type is fun to play one time :)
14:47:31 <Pikka> my usual game settings are 256*, low towns, normal industries, so...
14:48:12 <Alberth> that should work, small is smaller than 256**2
14:48:41 <Alberth> I once tried a 64**2 map with FIRS, that was crowded :)
14:49:21 <Alberth> I did most transport with trucks
14:49:57 <andythenorth> ^ has counts of industry and cargos
14:50:33 *** Markavian` has joined #openttd
14:50:55 <Pikka> time to make spreadsheets D;
14:51:08 <andythenorth> FIRS never had a spreadsheet :)
14:51:13 <andythenorth> I had concept art instead :P
14:51:46 <Pikka> they mean when I make things like those production curves, I don't need to know what I'm doing! I just plug in random numbers til it looks right :)
14:51:58 * drac_boy has two large .gnumeric files thank you -_-
14:53:27 <andythenorth> I could make a spreadsheet from FIRS :P
14:53:58 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Why Gnumeric? I never had much success with that :P
14:54:21 <andythenorth> BANDIT has a spreadsheet, and look what happened to that ;)
14:57:01 <andythenorth> certainly it never shipped ;)
14:58:21 <Pikka> andythenorth, fertiliser plant, y/n?
14:59:15 <drac_boy> FLHerne well its the only thing thats dated 'recent' otherwise it would have to be clarisworks which I doubt the forum would understand anyway
15:00:41 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Ludicrously outdated OS?
15:01:30 <FLHerne> Clarisworks hasn't even existed since about 2000, has it...?
15:02:03 <drac_boy> FLHerne my actual point was, its only gnumeric for shared sheets ;)
15:04:30 <andythenorth> Pikka: either invent a new way to increase production, or include fertiliser
15:04:32 <drac_boy> at least non-sheet things are too easy to share when plain text is just plain text :P
15:04:40 <andythenorth> the default ttd production mechanic is *so* tedious
15:04:52 <andythenorth> and leads to queues of maglevs
15:06:08 <Pikka> by which I mean I replace plastic in the set with chemicals
15:06:30 <drac_boy> yeah CHEM is generic so its not bad .. plastic is a bit too specific
15:06:51 <drac_boy> not to mention you could use CHEM to treat fruits ... to produce feed .. etc etc
15:07:11 <drac_boy> although I think one of the industry vector used 'refined oil' too
15:07:48 <Pikka> I dunno, you just have a way of putting me off the idea
15:08:00 <drac_boy> heh what do you even use plastics for tho?
15:08:07 <drac_boy> to make goods? that doesn't sound useful of oilwells
15:23:16 <andythenorth> Pikka: chemicals > plastic
15:23:20 <andythenorth> two legs > four legs
15:23:26 <andythenorth> also there is vehicle set support :P
15:23:52 <andythenorth> but chemicals have a nasty habit
15:23:57 <andythenorth> of getting accepted all over the place
15:24:05 <Pikka> yes, that's the problem :)
15:24:20 <Pikka> do food processing plants accept chemicals? :)
15:24:45 <drac_boy> well at least I can let my train drop it off more or less anywhere its running rather than having to make a transfer and hope that something else will forward it :)
15:24:46 <andythenorth> I liked the idea of fertiliser from nothing
15:24:50 <Pikka> is soylent purple chemicals?
15:24:51 <andythenorth> that seemed more pikka-ish
15:28:25 <V453000> some vehicle sets support even plastic as secondary :P
15:30:01 <Pikka> what do I call the industry that processes grain? :)
15:30:33 <Pikka> it may variously be a flour mill, brewery, bakery etc.
15:30:48 <drac_boy> depends on what output it is
15:31:07 <Pikka> perhaps it can just be "food processing plant" ala TTD
15:31:53 <drac_boy> andythenorth only if it accepts glass and outputs food :P
15:31:55 <Pikka> it can be both or either, that's my point :P
15:32:23 <Pikka> may be a mill, brewery or bakery depending on whatever.
15:35:50 <andythenorth> not if produces beer
15:35:57 <andythenorth> do you get beer at your bakery? o_O
15:36:22 * andythenorth suspects that's possible down there
15:37:12 <andythenorth> I bailed and called it grain mill
15:37:17 <andythenorth> which is no good if it's maize :P
15:37:29 <drac_boy> I never could decide if sand>glass or sand+chemical>glass .. what you think?
15:37:32 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd
15:38:48 <andythenorth> depends on the rest of your economy
15:39:04 <andythenorth> for gameplay, considering industries in isolation doesn't work
15:42:28 <drac_boy> mm well there's the sand open pit which is only good for glassworks atm. and the chemical plant ... not too sure about it since beside the glasswork theres only one other industry that maybe can use it
15:45:19 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
15:47:06 <Pikka> grain mill, type: brewery :)
15:47:21 <Pikka> probably better than calling it a Food Processing Plant, that will confuse people
15:47:55 <drac_boy> isn't it already called that in tropical default anyway?
15:48:07 <Pikka> that's why it will confuse people
15:48:08 <Eddi|zuHause> can you vary the industry name based on layout?
15:48:27 <Pikka> the meatworks looks more like (ie, exactly like) the tropical FPP ;)
15:49:01 <drac_boy> try the meat plant from railroad tycoon 2 then? the animal chute gives it away too :)
15:54:46 <Pikka> which places them on the map during map generation?
15:55:29 * drac_boy is going for a little
15:55:46 <Pikka> a little what? I shudder to think.
16:05:30 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: can't vary industry name in minimap
16:05:38 <andythenorth> and it's an action 0 prop every afaict
16:06:04 <andythenorth> Pikka: not a cb, a probability prop, action 0
16:06:15 <andythenorth> probability during map gen, probability in game
16:06:37 * andythenorth has read zero percent of newobject spec, so is guessing
16:06:38 <Pikka> meh, callbacks are better
16:06:41 <Pikka> callbacks are always better
16:06:47 <andythenorth> some agree, some disagree :P
16:06:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hijack the code that places transmitters/lighthouses
16:06:55 <Pikka> what does "probability" mean?
16:07:01 <andythenorth> when I propose one, I get yelled at by people who like the other :P
16:07:17 <andythenorth> urgh, probability
16:07:22 <Pikka> with a callback, I can have one per town
16:07:33 <andythenorth> yeah I'm convinced
16:07:57 <andythenorth> how does openttd know to try and build this object?
16:09:34 <Pikka> perhaps newobjects have a special "cargo" in action 3 for the map generation callback?
16:10:16 <Pikka> that's for whoever's actually programming it to work out
16:20:10 <Pikka> one per town, one per map, only build on mountains, only build near coastlines, only build etc etc :]
16:20:57 <Pikka> although I don't think we have all the necessary variables yet ;)
16:23:12 <andythenorth> I want a version that runs during game
16:23:32 <andythenorth> it would look for industries :P
16:23:38 <andythenorth> and plant overbuildable fields
16:23:40 <Pikka> maybe it could run at the beginning of the month, or year, or whatever :]
16:23:44 <andythenorth> monthly is enough
16:24:48 <Pikka> you need to invent overbuildable newobjects, though :)
16:27:35 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
16:29:25 <bolli> Is there a special thing to enable gamescripts?
16:29:45 <bolli> I'm trying to get the silicon valley from yesterdays nightlies game working, and I'm struggling
16:34:24 <Zuu> bolli: Did you select it in the AI/Game Script settings dialog?
16:34:33 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
16:45:56 <andythenorth> stand by the jams
16:47:54 <Eddi|zuHause> ftp://29c3.ex23.de/official/mp4-h264-HQ/29c3-5180-de-en-marvin_und_der_blues_h264.mp4
16:48:29 <Eddi|zuHause> (the second audio track is english, if you're interested what he's talking about)
16:48:31 <bolli> Thanks Zuu, I had worked it out though :)
16:48:48 <bolli> But I now cannot load a save game with it...
16:49:14 <Zuu> Do you have the GS installed on your dedicated server?
16:49:28 <bolli> It says not, however I think I do...
16:49:29 <Eddi|zuHause> bolli: transfer the stuff in content_download onto the server
16:49:56 <bolli> Thats whats confusing me...
16:50:24 <Zuu> did you put it in content_download on the server?
16:50:44 <bolli> I hadn't restarted the server after uploading it :)
16:50:54 <bolli> Sorry, 'bout bothering you :)
16:51:00 <Eddi|zuHause> bolli: there are rescan commands for that stuff, usually
16:58:13 <andythenorth> features: last train to transcentral, ice cream van, the car from the video
16:58:20 <andythenorth> and a station with Tammy Wynette
16:58:25 <andythenorth> and a white room
16:58:41 <andythenorth> climate: Mu Mu Land
16:59:08 <andythenorth> there are enough foamer grfs, should be more lol
16:59:16 <andythenorth> V453000 is leading the way :)
16:59:50 <V453000> nuts isnt a lol newgrf :p
17:02:24 <V453000> not like I am currently drawing a whole class of trains based on wtf
17:02:41 <V453000> why would I do that right
17:04:04 <andythenorth> you should add a 'wtf wagon'
17:04:09 <andythenorth> cargo randomises on build
17:04:34 <V453000> so far all the stuff is made to work andy
17:04:34 <Pikka> capacity randomises on loading
17:04:46 <andythenorth> everything randomises
17:04:56 <andythenorth> randomise the randomising
17:05:17 <Pikka> see, I can give all these industry sub-types clever names
17:05:32 * andythenorth steals ideas from Pikka for FIRS
17:05:34 <andythenorth> but not that one :P
17:05:42 <Pikka> but I can see how it would make it more confusing for players :)
17:06:14 <Pikka> "Low", "Medium", "High"
17:06:26 <Pikka> vs "Lucky Strike", "Divined Drilling" and "Fracked Up" :)
17:07:26 <V453000> btw andythenorth: stating shat the station rating mechanism is grim and mean made me laugh .D
17:08:00 <andythenorth> people like you are my target audience ;)\
17:09:32 <V453000> im not sure if 99% others would get the joke though
17:11:48 *** MagisterQuis1 has joined #openttd
17:15:03 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
17:18:35 <V453000> hm we got a decync error :d
17:20:18 <Pikka> haven't seen one of those for a while :)
17:20:53 *** MagisterQuis1 has left #openttd
17:21:57 <planetmaker> Pikka, you only see them when you play in multiplayer :-)
17:22:15 <planetmaker> and happy new year everyone here :-)
17:22:27 <Pikka> happy new 2nd of january, planetmaker
17:26:05 <planetmaker> desync means that for the same savegame, that the server has a different idea of how the game should progress than the client
17:26:17 <planetmaker> while they should agree on everything in all cases
17:26:30 <planetmaker> I know that you know ;-)
17:26:56 <V453000> was just wondering if we communicate through multiple channels or not :D
17:42:27 <Pikka> andythenorth: are scrap yards silly?
17:43:27 <Pikka> or are they a good idea (tm)?
17:43:29 <FLHerne> Pikka: I don't think they are
17:43:40 <bolli> Does content update actually work?
17:43:41 * FLHerne is a player, but not an industry dev
17:44:08 <FLHerne> As long as the grf dev remembered to change the version number :P
17:44:20 <bolli> I've run content select all then content update, and It does nowt...
17:45:38 <andythenorth> Pikka: you've got to have a use for them :P
17:45:49 <andythenorth> in FIRS they are overly-important for metal production chain
17:45:53 <andythenorth> it's a bit unbalanced
17:46:02 <andythenorth> but then if everything was balanced, it might be kind of flat :P
17:46:09 <andythenorth> you have to have some facets and edges :P
17:46:10 <Rubidium> bolli: have you read the documentation?
17:46:12 <FLHerne> bolli: What are you attempting to do?
17:46:38 <Pikka> I've just realised how to prevent confusion in my industry set
17:46:51 <Pikka> include a novel-length explanation in every industry window :)
17:46:52 <Rubidium> only one cargo: "stuff"
17:47:35 <FLHerne> bolli: 'Select upgrades' should select only grfs previously downloaded that now have newer versions
17:47:59 <bolli> Thats what I'm trying to do
17:48:11 <andythenorth> Pikka: +1, definitely a great idea
17:48:18 <andythenorth> I did wonder about 'extended industry window'
17:48:22 * Rubidium assumes FLHerne thinks of the GUI and bolli of the console
17:48:41 <andythenorth> ideally you would have text per industry *instance* not per type
17:48:53 <andythenorth> "this steel mill was founded in 1873 by Pikka Bird and other investors"
17:49:05 <andythenorth> "it first produced in 1874" etc etc
17:49:06 <Pikka> "this factory hates you, go away"
17:49:09 <andythenorth> or maybe we can infer that :P
17:50:09 <andythenorth> Pikka: I suspect that some FIRS industries only exist as an excuse to include certain vehicle types in sets
17:50:16 <andythenorth> scrap yard might be one of them :P
17:50:21 <andythenorth> where are those scrap wagons anyway?
17:50:39 <Rubidium> bolli: type content help, read carefully and then tell us what you think you have done wrong ;)
17:50:49 <andythenorth> they're probably there
17:50:54 <Pikka> they'll only appear if scrap is defined, and tbh I don't think I ever really tested them
17:50:59 <Pikka> I just assumed I did it right :)
17:51:23 <bolli> Content Upgrade All? :p
17:51:30 <andythenorth> probably a victim of the great 'cargo label change war' of 2011
17:51:48 <andythenorth> scrap changed, due to community-sized brainwobbles
17:52:22 <andythenorth> and we got some new action 0 props out of that silliness :)
17:52:36 <planetmaker> hm... I just notice, andythenorth, that in FIRS 0.8.3 the flash lights of the machines parked in the machine shop are all active
17:52:39 <Pikka> SCMT, seems to be right
17:53:00 <Pikka> scrap wagon is in the addon set and should appear 1978
17:54:00 <andythenorth> planetmaker: you don't like it? :P
17:54:06 <andythenorth> fair point, they're parked
17:54:26 <andythenorth> want to paint them out and commit? :)
17:54:32 <andythenorth> or file a ticket
17:54:55 <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes, it's good. But for all vehicles on a parking lot... :-)
17:55:51 <andythenorth> Pikka: it's there
17:55:54 <andythenorth> I tested a bad save
17:56:01 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm +1 to changing it
17:56:28 <bolli> So I run "Content Update", then "Content Download" and I still get "Downloading 0 Files"
17:56:53 <planetmaker> content select all
17:57:01 <andythenorth> all those real world liveries for UKRS 2 :o
17:57:29 <planetmaker> I'll make a low-priority ticket, andythenorth
17:57:57 *** Superuser has joined #openttd
17:58:38 <bolli> So I've run content select all and I still have UKRS 1.01
17:58:49 <bolli> *content select all then content download
17:59:09 <planetmaker> and... you got which openttd version?
17:59:36 <planetmaker> and you don't expect the newgrf to become updated on an existing map, no?
17:59:58 <bolli> Nope, I'm looking in ~/.openttd/content_download/newgrf
18:00:39 <planetmaker> and you don't download to ./content_download/newgrf ?
18:01:14 <Rubidium> looks like reading is difficult
18:28:25 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:32:57 <Pikka> <andythenorth> all those real world liveries for UKRS 2 :o <- where? :o
18:36:02 <andythenorth> somewhere in the grf :)
18:36:14 <andythenorth> more than I would have bothered to draw anyway
18:37:34 <Pikka> the real world liveries aren't "drawn"
18:37:48 <Pikka> they use the same sprites as the CC vehicles
18:39:23 <andythenorth> you have variants by date though :)
18:39:30 <andythenorth> attention to detail :P
18:39:42 <andythenorth> actually HEQS does that for bulldozers
18:39:44 <andythenorth> then I got bored
18:40:36 <andythenorth> people who know about Cat might appreciate the details :P
18:40:46 <andythenorth> not cats like Scuddles :P
18:46:13 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24879 /trunk/src/lang (11 files in 2 dirs) (2013-01-01 18:45:55 UTC)
18:46:14 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:15 <DorpsGek> bulgarian - 14 changes by pdedinski
18:46:16 <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 2 changes by xiangyigao
18:46:17 <DorpsGek> finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
18:46:18 <DorpsGek> greek - 43 changes by Evropi
18:46:19 <DorpsGek> hungarian - 2 changes by Brumi
18:46:20 <DorpsGek> icelandic - 201 changes by Stimrol
18:46:21 <DorpsGek> indonesian - 65 changes by Yoursnotmine
18:46:22 <DorpsGek> portuguese - 29 changes by fspinto
18:46:23 <DorpsGek> romanian - 54 changes by mariush
18:46:24 <DorpsGek> spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
18:46:25 <DorpsGek> tamil - 25 changes by aswn
18:47:00 <Superuser> Must have been some 100 yesterday
18:57:18 <Ammler> luckily my native language isn't there :-)
18:57:38 <Superuser> which is? And why luckily?
19:01:42 <Ammler> swiss german, well it would be more as you to :-Ptranslate
19:03:33 <Ammler> it does (yet) not support dialects
19:03:42 <__ln__> switzerland is a bit like new zealand; has mountains and is located next to a country with kangaroos
19:07:55 <Ammler> and we have a very good sea sailing team
19:10:03 <Rubidium> yeah, nobody beat them on any of the seas surrounding Switzerland
19:14:14 <Ammler> afaik they still also lead the americas cup and similar
19:14:32 <Ammler> or at least did for some time :-P
19:20:23 <andythenorth> don't test colour cycles with full animation turned off
19:24:00 <andythenorth> Pikka: you have a genuine foamer in your thread
19:24:05 <andythenorth> maybe a few of them even :P
19:24:17 <andythenorth> I had some too :P
19:24:52 <andythenorth> you get livery backchat, I got more detail about sugarcane than I can usefully enjoy :P
19:25:37 <Pikka> you just have to assess what level of response will cause them to shut up
19:26:03 <Pikka> for some it's none, for some you actually have to reply or they'll keep spouting
19:26:43 <V453000> I rather quickly figured forum threads arent too useful for me :D
19:29:00 <andythenorth> I appreciate the effort someone puts in
19:29:08 <andythenorth> I don't always appreciate what they say :P
19:29:29 *** Superuser has joined #openttd
19:29:37 <V453000> well yeah I dont want people put effort into something which is probably going to be useless for me
20:08:38 <Superuser> what does 'Object generation' actually do? I've never gotten into this generation business in this depth
20:09:11 <planetmaker> distribute objects on the map. Which are un-movable light houses and transmitters
20:09:22 <planetmaker> (and also undestructible)
20:09:49 <Superuser> also you really need to improve lighthouse placement, lol
20:10:13 <Superuser> anyway I left it as it is, seems appropriate
20:12:58 <planetmaker> you as in "could also be you"?
20:13:06 <planetmaker> then please, go ahead :-)
20:19:23 <andythenorth> Pikka: wot farm? o_O
20:19:49 <Pikka> farms which produce mainly livestock accept grain
20:20:00 <andythenorth> I wanted to do that
20:20:06 <andythenorth> for reasons I forget
20:20:20 <andythenorth> you should do all the good ideas that don't fit in my set :P
20:20:24 <Pikka> example industry texts coming up
20:20:28 <andythenorth> because not all things fit in one box :P
20:20:32 <Pikka> trying to decide if I can bother colour coding the text
20:20:52 <Pikka> it will be easier to read in-game thanks to the colour coding
20:24:39 <andythenorth> I should stop building lego
20:24:42 <andythenorth> and work on FIRS
20:27:20 <andythenorth> is roadtypes done yet? o_0
20:28:25 <andythenorth> we are here slaving over hot newgrfs, and all you are doing is providing us free server space, lol, and maybe some multistop docks :P
20:28:31 <andythenorth> where's the gratitude I say
20:29:56 <V453000> I just caused a desync and nml error with just one awesome newgrf feature so I am silent :D
20:31:58 <andythenorth> did you go to far? o_O
20:33:34 <andythenorth> I'd recommend it for small maps
20:33:40 <andythenorth> with only a few of each industry
20:33:44 <andythenorth> less so on bigger
20:33:48 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd
20:34:06 <andythenorth> maybe you should force the issue, to prevent player whining
20:34:14 <andythenorth> limit the number of types per game :P
20:34:22 <Pikka> part of the point of this is that the industries are self-regulating as far as production goes
20:34:46 <Pikka> so, in theory, it should actually be /better/ for large fire-and-forget type maps than "random" production changes
20:35:01 <andythenorth> what about the 5 year plans?
20:35:15 <andythenorth> do I need to engage with that and go buy more double headed A4s or whatever?
20:35:50 <Pikka> the industries only make decisions (only change production targets, modes, do upgrades) every 5 years
20:36:18 <andythenorth> 5 years passes quickly...
20:36:23 <andythenorth> especially with news messages off :P
20:36:34 <Pikka> but if you do buy more double headed a4s
20:36:47 <Pikka> and you max out the stockpiles, etc
20:37:01 <Pikka> the industry will react by changing their future plan to increase production, if possible
20:37:01 <andythenorth> so you have something here like contracts - i.e. production limits?
20:37:26 <Pikka> at the end of each 5 years, the "future plans" becomes the "5-year plan"
20:37:37 <Superuser> this sounds awfully Stalinist
20:37:46 <andythenorth> so it's relatively stable in your communist utopia?
20:37:46 <Pikka> during the 5 years, the "future plans" change to reflect what's happening to the industry
20:38:18 <Pikka> I may change the wording of "5-year plan", actually
20:38:32 <Pikka> because it makes it sound like what's planned for the future, instead of what's happening now
20:38:37 <Pikka> hence your confusion :)
20:39:49 <andythenorth> 'current operating model'
20:39:54 <andythenorth> 'current lolplan'
20:41:08 <andythenorth> well it all sounds good
20:41:15 <andythenorth> proof of pudding is in eating etc
20:41:24 <andythenorth> a lesson that will not be lost on drac_boy sometime ;)
20:43:40 <drac_boy> what you mean andythenorth?
20:44:03 <andythenorth> simply an innocent aside drac_boy :)
20:45:20 <andythenorth> let's talk about it again when you ship
20:45:36 * andythenorth is speaking as someone who has rebuilt several grfs several times after play-testing
20:48:14 <andythenorth> you have to walk a mile in your own shoes first :)
20:48:23 * andythenorth should get a FB page for all these little sayings
20:48:28 <andythenorth> maybe motivational posters
20:49:03 * andythenorth should probably go back to work and do useful things :P
20:49:08 <andythenorth> holiday time is over
20:51:52 * drac_boy would had just ignored it anyway
20:54:02 <andythenorth> drac_boy: got a repo yet? Or at least backups?
20:54:09 <andythenorth> too many projects died due to loss of files :P
20:55:54 * drac_boy points to my usual macally hd drive :P
21:00:24 <andythenorth> Pikka: will your industry text fit in say 800x600 screen?
21:01:03 <andythenorth> also do you completely shaft AI? Or can it work out what cargos are needed?
21:09:05 <Pikka> I should think it shafts AI less than most
21:09:17 <Pikka> and I have no idea about 800x600
21:14:14 <andythenorth> figured out docks?
21:14:40 <Pikka> nope. I don't think I'm going to have them
21:15:48 <Pikka> feel like they might be a bit... hard to make interesting?
21:17:25 <andythenorth> they only work for me where I need to cheat
21:17:35 <andythenorth> in economies with limited no. of industries
21:21:50 <drac_boy> heh thats really nice for an Object dock :)
21:22:10 <drac_boy> could use choices other than boxed goods crates sitting there tho
21:35:59 <drac_boy> heh that looks rather similar colours to the original lego mixer truck ... aside to having one more axle
21:38:21 <andythenorth> drac_boy: that lets me guess your age :o
21:39:01 <peter1138> lego's all wrong these days
21:39:18 <andythenorth> nah, it's gone all right again, just biggerer
21:39:23 <drac_boy> one thing I like is having one of these few canada-specific lego sets they had back then
21:39:28 <drac_boy> especially the canada post van
21:40:02 <Pikka> peter's one of those people who don't think it's right unless it's yellow.
21:40:42 <drac_boy> andythenorth the one thing I don't like is that weird not-so-gray gray they use
21:40:48 <peter1138> see, the mixer shouldn't be just one piece like that
21:40:54 <drac_boy> at least as long as original supplies are still easy to find on used market I'm ok for now
21:41:14 <andythenorth> also, the mixer is 2 parts :P
21:41:20 <drac_boy> yeah that andythenorth I keep forgetting what it was called
21:41:21 <andythenorth> and it has an internal helix
21:41:35 <andythenorth> so you can actually get 'cement' tiles to spiral out
21:42:49 <peter1138> the play value of lego is building stuff
21:42:53 <drac_boy> andythenorth initially the canons used for the pirate ships were able to shoot these 1x1 black cylinder pieces ... but apparently safety overuled and it became one solid non-firing casing instead
21:43:14 <drac_boy> at least I actually have one used canon that can fire .. its a simple metal spring inside
21:43:18 <andythenorth> I have firing ones upstairs
21:43:27 <andythenorth> also socker ball firing things
21:43:35 <drac_boy> mm you must had gotten the early ones :)
21:44:05 <drac_boy> interesting enough there were some recent technic set that used firing "punch rods" .. guess some things seem to change
21:44:34 <andythenorth> mine are from 2007 or so
21:45:03 <drac_boy> I just don't like where lego is heading with their trains already but....meh
21:45:57 <drac_boy> at least that tgv-looklike train set they released a while ago looks nice, classic rail axles too
21:46:11 <drac_boy> actually looks like an 'updated' version of the original set a long time ago
21:48:19 *** Progman has joined #openttd
21:48:25 <drac_boy> only thing thats a bit annoying as it would seem is you have to buy two of the latter if you want to have a cab at both ends .. one box doesn't have double of the special cab pieces needed
21:51:14 <drac_boy> then again lego does seem to be making a lot of half-trains lately
21:51:29 <drac_boy> like how come that streamlined steam locomotive came with ONE LOUSY COACH???
21:55:49 <andythenorth> it's a terrible world drac_boy
22:00:28 <drac_boy> apparently a lot of the 9V and RC trains just never shared much counterpart to any kind of real examples
22:00:57 <drac_boy> I wonder if the steam+coach set was based after anything real or as usual not
22:02:02 *** Devroush has joined #openttd
22:02:47 <drac_boy> only thing it was good for was the yellow train baseplates
22:03:56 <drac_boy> mind you at least the whole Santa Fe sectional trains was pretty good actually
22:04:10 <drac_boy> could buy the locomotives .. and any number of coaches you wanted
22:42:22 <MINM> oh, the shuttle express train!
22:42:33 <MINM> my childhood friend had one of those
22:43:05 <Zuu> Should a GS need to come with an OFF button?
22:46:35 <Zuu> to disable cargo goals in neighbours are important.
22:47:28 <Zuu> A forum user wanted to disable the cargo goals it set.
23:05:03 *** Djohaal has joined #openttd
23:06:52 <drac_boy> geeze they need quite good rails, running at 145kph on cape gauge!
23:11:48 *** valhalla1w has joined #openttd
23:28:32 <FLHerne> Zuu: I would like to be able to adjust the size of the goals ingame :-)
23:28:58 <Zuu> Just that zero is not an option.
23:29:12 <Zuu> Help menu -> AI/Game script debug -> Settings
23:29:28 <FLHerne> Ah. Settings are under 'Debug'? :-)
23:29:56 <FLHerne> It seems not to like CargoDist/Daylength much :P
23:30:08 <FLHerne> Might need turning down quite a bit
23:30:30 <Zuu> I saw now that it is not possible to make changes in the AI/Game Script settings dialog in a running game. That is a bit silly as AIs/GSs can enable/disable in-game changing of individual settings.
23:31:38 <Zuu> So if the AI/GS author have enabled in-game changing of a parameter it is up to the AI/GS to not bail out if a user change it. :-)
23:32:28 <FLHerne> Zuu: Well, I just changed some in the debug thing. That should work?
23:32:52 <FLHerne> Also, is there a minimum meaningful value for the difficulty multiplier thing
23:34:38 <Zuu> Yes, changing settings via the debug window should work.
23:35:40 <Zuu> The minimum value is set to 1. Below that you get 0 as cargo limit which isn't allowed by the script currently. (I don't remember why)
23:36:17 <FLHerne> Yep, that made a big difference
23:36:41 <FLHerne> And...is it supposed to recognise FIRS food as a cargo?
23:37:01 <Zuu> if FIRS Food have a town effect, then yes
23:37:03 <FLHerne> It requests Petrol, but I presume Goods would also be valid?
23:37:16 <Zuu> basically, it work with town effects and not cargos.
23:38:04 <FLHerne> Odd thing is, it doesn't seem to. Food had a town-effect last time I tried it, but it doesn't seem to count for the cargo requirement :-/
23:39:01 <FLHerne> I would assume that FIRS Food has a food town-effect, then :P
23:39:26 <Zuu> Well, it basically harcode the usage of town effects based on climate.
23:39:51 <FLHerne> andythenorth seems to have wandered off, which is inconvenient :P
23:39:51 <Zuu> So if you provide food in temperate, it will still not use TE_FOOD.
23:40:06 <FLHerne> Does that make sense?
23:40:42 * FLHerne tests NaI + FIRS in a stable version
23:40:46 <Zuu> However, an extension could loop over all cargo types to detect which town effects that are available and use that as additonal imput to the current climate.
23:41:03 <Zuu> That just needs to be implemented :-p
23:42:22 <Zuu> hmm, I wonder if the dessert/snow issue ever got solved.
23:42:50 <FLHerne> Point is, NaI doesn't seem to recognise FIRS food as a valid thing to deliver. That seems a bit odd :-(
23:43:46 <FLHerne> Temperate. I think I see your point now :P
23:44:17 <Zuu> I can improve it with some work, but the current solution is hard coded to the climates.
23:48:05 <FLHerne> So I shouldn't expect it to work in Temperate, this is a known issue, and might be fixable in the future?
23:48:23 * FLHerne doesn't know much about GS implementation :-/
23:50:35 <Zuu> If the FIRS Food have the TownEffect FOOD, then the GS could be re-structured to read the TownEffect of all available cargo types. Based on that it will get a list of the available town effects in the game. It could get into trouble if some town effects have no receiver in the game due to some NewGRF issue.
23:51:06 <Zuu> Eg. what if there is a special cargo that provide a town effect that there is no industry set nor town set that provide a receiver for?
23:51:50 <Zuu> Or what if there is a town effect that appears to be available for the GS but actually is not possible to produce.
23:52:00 <FLHerne> I don't know, and I'm probably not the right person to ask :P
23:52:39 <Zuu> Or what happens if the availability of cargos that provide some cargo effect is vastly different to the default cargos? (then the goals might need to change to account to availability of cargo .... which makes the whole thing more complex)
23:53:12 <FLHerne> Zuu: Doesn't that happen with any NewGrf cargoes?
23:53:40 <Zuu> That can happen also with the current NaI script
23:54:25 <Zuu> Last NoCarGoal however pick 1 primary, 1 secondary and 1 random cargo to provide some stability.
23:55:17 <Zuu> But it doesn't attempt to detect engineering supplies or any other low quantity cargo.
23:58:50 <dot_> I have a game running and in any train depot, I can see cars but no engines. Why is this?
23:59:22 <FLHerne> dot_: Are any engines actually available for that railtype?
23:59:44 <dot_> no engines exist for that date?
23:59:59 <FLHerne> Possibly no engines for that railtype are available after 2500 or whatever?
continue to next day ⏵
