IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-12-30
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00:12:26 <peter1138> if (CleaningPool()) return;
00:28:57 <peter1138> holy crap it works... for yapf...
00:45:15 <peter1138> have to worry about extra cpu usage though :S
00:59:20 <peter1138> keep having coal mines close on me :-(
03:49:38 <Flygon> I've learned something about OpenTTD
03:49:48 <Flygon> It's near impossible to churn a profit pre-1830 @_@
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07:12:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24872 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2012-12-30 07:12:42 UTC)
07:12:49 <DorpsGek> -Fix: typo in English (Stimrol)
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10:22:43 <A124> Hey guys. Anyone has any idea what's wrong with the downloads?
10:23:05 <Terkhen> without a description of the problem, no :P
10:23:09 <peter1138> no, what's wrong with the downloads?
10:23:15 <planetmaker> no-one's aware of anything being wrong
10:23:30 <planetmaker> good morning everyone also :-)
10:23:34 <A124> None of then, not even directory listings
10:23:56 <Terkhen> I just checked, the ingame online content works fine for me
10:23:58 <planetmaker> we provide no directory listings. Give URL please
10:24:32 <Terkhen> new aviators aircraft set... nice, I'll have to check what it adds :P
10:25:11 <Math> Not even sources are acessible
10:25:17 <planetmaker> as it always has been
10:25:22 <Math> Yes, that's where I got the links from
10:25:32 <Terkhen> for the record, without the double "binaries" thing the link works
10:25:44 <Terkhen> but you should just download them from the url that planetmaker linked
10:27:27 <Rubidium> from the http site it won't redirect to a https site, so either you're not on the http site... or something in your browser messes things up
10:27:56 <Math> I'm automatically redirected as for the safety. I'll check this, thanks.
10:28:36 <Math> So https version is a) useless b) flawed
10:28:43 <peter1138> there is no https version
10:29:28 <Rubidium> the actual mirrors are not even using https AFAIK
10:30:15 <peter1138> not official, just happens to be available
10:30:22 <peter1138> notice the styling is all broken
10:30:27 <peter1138> and the links are all to http
10:30:46 <peter1138> so your browser or some such is automagically httpsing for you?
10:31:15 <Math> I noticed taht but it's on openttd.org. So, it should be else fixed or taken down maybe
10:31:58 <planetmaker> if it's not supposed to work it should not be there
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10:33:03 <Math> Ok. Is irc enough as a notice, or should I contact someone else? If so,, whom?
10:33:17 <planetmaker> you reached the right people. Thanks :-)
10:33:38 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: ^ can that issue with https be fixed?
10:33:48 <peter1138> even if you go to https:// the download links are supplied without https
10:34:07 <planetmaker> incorrect, peter1138
10:34:22 <peter1138> i don't know why the styling is wrong, they are absolute references
10:34:24 <Rubidium> planetmaker: for me the download links are http there as well
10:34:44 <peter1138> planetmaker, the download page is relative, so stays https, but the download *links* are without https
10:34:45 <Math> Even more starnge I got https links
10:35:02 <planetmaker> yes, that's true, Pensacola
10:35:29 <Rubidium> Math: so your browser is messing with the website, replacing http with https
10:35:39 <andythenorth> is it safari by any chance?
10:35:42 <andythenorth> or other webkit?
10:35:45 <planetmaker> then the FF on debian does that
10:36:08 <planetmaker> though... yes actual download link is http
10:36:26 <peter1138> planetmaker, i'm using FF (iceweasl) on debian. it doesn't do that.
10:36:56 <Math> Firefox, with HTTPs Everywhere from Electronic Frontier Foundation. Without the addon, the links are http
10:37:03 <peter1138> i can only assume it's some misguided plugin that's fucking it up
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10:37:15 <peter1138> complain to them :p
10:38:33 <peter1138> chromium doesn't like it though, probably cos the styles are on non-https
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10:44:48 * andythenorth ponders GS ideas
10:44:55 <Pikka> andythenorth, your big ship is in trouble
10:45:06 <andythenorth> Are we playing the game? :o
10:45:15 <Pikka> it has been floating around near its unloading dock for 13 years
10:45:28 <Pikka> trying to get to the depot in the canal on the other side of the steelmill
10:45:29 <andythenorth> someone take over my company and fix it
10:45:42 <andythenorth> yeah ship routing is a bit fucked these days
10:45:52 <andythenorth> especially with 90' turns off
10:46:01 <andythenorth> turning off 90' turns for ships is a dumb option imo
10:46:32 <andythenorth> it just causes broken ships, with no gameplay benefit
10:46:38 <Pikka> not giving vehicles explicit depot orders is dumb imo ;)
10:46:53 <andythenorth> breakdowns are on?
10:46:57 <Pikka> but then I'm more used to playing with breakdowns on
10:47:31 <andythenorth> nothing wrong with breakdowns
10:47:38 <andythenorth> lots of my games have breakdowns
10:47:46 <Pikka> citizens celebrate, first ship arrives!
10:48:12 <andythenorth> Pikka: been thinking about a Hare and Tortoise GS
10:48:14 <Pikka> your ore dock still has better ratings than spcomb's train station :P
10:48:27 <andythenorth> all freight must go less than a certain speed, all pax more than a certain speed
10:48:31 <Pikka> 15% and 11% respectively, I wonder what happened to his trains...
10:48:43 <peter1138> it couldn't completely unload
10:48:51 <andythenorth> pikka broke my ships :(
10:48:58 <Pikka> I see what happened to his trains
10:49:01 <peter1138> it's larger than the steel mill's queue thing
10:49:03 <Pikka> they're not unloading at the other end
10:49:10 <Pikka> no-one told him steel mills need coal :D
10:49:14 <andythenorth> I'll speckletate
10:49:23 <andythenorth> I am minding two junior andys though
10:49:31 <andythenorth> and they tend to do bad things when I play
10:49:35 <andythenorth> like fall down the stairs
10:49:55 <andythenorth> look how much steel I made :o
10:50:10 <andythenorth> and that ship is profitable :D
10:55:09 <George> let me know if I need to provide more information
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11:20:57 <Flygon> __ln__: Broadcast on TV here
11:21:05 <Flygon> We're fascinated with Russian carcams
11:21:11 <Flygon> We have them on bikes for the same reason
11:21:18 <Flygon> To prove who killed us
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11:25:13 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I love the highlight, but can you also tell me what I should read in the list above? :D
11:25:23 <Flygon> You know them vacuum tube railways Brunel designed?
11:25:36 <Flygon> Victorian era VMU's for OpenTTD Y/N?
11:27:07 <peter1138> TrueBrain, i don't think there's a problem at all
11:27:18 <TrueBrain> then why does he highlight me? :(
11:27:25 <peter1138> cos he thought there was
11:27:47 <peter1138> only that some browsers don't apply style to the https:// version of the website
11:27:55 <peter1138> question is, should there be an https version of it?
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11:28:57 <TrueBrain> peter1138: let me guess, if you load the frontpage via https, you dont get the media? (they are non-https links :P)
11:28:58 <peter1138> stupid really, css isn't exactly malicious
11:29:15 <TrueBrain> and yeah ... it used to be okay
11:29:16 <peter1138> works in some but not all
11:29:23 <TrueBrain> nowedays they see https as: now you cannot snoop what I am visiting
11:29:28 <TrueBrain> instead of: protecting user data
11:29:29 <andythenorth> browsers are more nerfy
11:30:07 <TrueBrain> guess I should finish the new website some day ... he should do it correct :P
11:30:36 <Math> Umm.. Is there a reason why dedicated server needs graphics set?
11:30:58 <Flygon> Because the operator doesn't like default OpenTTD graphics?
11:31:22 <Math> What do you mean by that?
11:31:23 <Alberth> Math: graphics set? do you mean baseset?
11:31:51 <Math> Alberth: The graphic portion of baseset
11:32:03 <Math> I thought dedicated server would not need those
11:32:09 <peter1138> baseset includes special stuff for landscape generator
11:32:23 <Ammler> we once thought to make a nogfx set :-)
11:32:31 <Ammler> I guess, opengfx has such a branch
11:32:38 <peter1138> admittedly nobody uses them
11:32:46 <Math> "Error: Failed to find a graphics set. Please acquire a graphics set for OpenTTD. See section 4.1 of readme.txt."
11:32:46 <peter1138> cos tgp doesn't need them
11:32:46 <TrueBrain> peter1138: that replacement is rather flawed :D
11:33:05 <TrueBrain> as we don't host any file at *.binaries.openttd.org, only at binaries.openttd.org ;)
11:33:08 <peter1138> i know, it's what caused the faff this morning
11:33:19 <TrueBrain> lolz; where does such line come from?
11:33:32 <Alberth> Math: as peter1138 already said, it contains more than just the graphics
11:33:45 <TrueBrain> they have manual lines for openttd?
11:33:51 <Kjetil> Flygon: :) One could also imagine depresurized tracks for maglev in the future to decrease drag
11:34:00 <Math> Okay. Thanks. Are open-gfx compatible with Windows version?
11:34:05 <TrueBrain> faulty lines, for that matter ....
11:34:17 <TrueBrain> the OpenTTD schema is very simple: *.openttd.org -> secure.openttd.org/$1
11:34:27 <Flygon> Kjetil: Depressurized tracks?
11:34:27 <Alberth> Math: opengfx works with all versions
11:34:33 <peter1138> can we charge them for causing needless server load?
11:34:36 <Ammler> Math: basesets are local only
11:34:38 <TrueBrain> (the first httpd handles it, and pushes it to the backends as it was a http call :P)
11:35:07 <Math> Alberth: Server opengfx and clients Windows version, .. that ok right? Just to get sure.
11:35:50 <Alberth> Math: in multi-player, you can have any mix of server and clients
11:36:04 <Math> Alberth: Thank you kindly.
11:36:16 <Alberth> and opengfx is compatible with the original TTDX set too
11:37:06 <Kjetil> Flygon: Kind of like the car as piston configuration of an atmospheric track. Expect that there is really no thight seal around the train. More like a vacuum tube
11:37:32 <Flygon> I don't understand how this ties into Maglev
11:37:56 <Flygon> I'm referring to what's basically a reverse steam locomotive design Brunel cooked up
11:38:17 <Kjetil> could be any railtype. I used maglev as it is a "future" rail type (not any more though)
11:39:19 <Flygon> I'm referring to iron rail
11:39:31 <Flygon> And the tech relies, essentially, on adhesive wheels
11:39:44 <TrueBrain> peter1138: but I agree, it is silly that we have to give support to a broken thingy that wants to do good; they should instead of just us an email telling us things are wrong tbfh :P
11:39:56 <Flygon> Only real difference between standard rail is that it allows locomotiveless MU operation in the 1850s @_@
11:40:15 <peter1138> Flygon, oh that thing
11:40:32 <Flygon> peter1138: High infrastructure maintaince coss
11:40:46 <peter1138> a vacuum tube... with a slot running along it
11:41:02 <Flygon> Really good idea... if it's 1960
11:41:30 <Flygon> They really could have used silicon, or rubber, or plastic, or something back then
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12:31:45 <ZxBiohazardZx> anyone know in TaI how i figure out what town type i have?
12:31:54 <ZxBiohazardZx> didnt see you in list :P
12:32:06 <ZxBiohazardZx> "The town type can be determined by using the query tool on the city/town hall. "
12:32:10 <ZxBiohazardZx> define city/town hall
12:32:11 <Pikka> there are six town types
12:32:13 <ZxBiohazardZx> i dont see it :P
12:32:16 <ZxBiohazardZx> i know, i read the wiki
12:32:17 <Pikka> there are no city halls yet
12:32:22 <Pikka> the wiki is out of date :)
12:32:32 <ZxBiohazardZx> so how do i figure out what type of city i have?
12:32:33 <Pikka> three types are cities and three are towns
12:32:41 <Pikka> if it's an openttd (city), then it's a city
12:32:51 <ZxBiohazardZx> yeah openttd (city)
12:33:07 <ZxBiohazardZx> i just have some dying cities, prolly old houses that got removed (non-TAI)
12:33:15 <ZxBiohazardZx> some cities are booming still :)
12:33:26 <ZxBiohazardZx> i do like it, it limits the sizes a bit, makes it fun to play
12:33:38 <Pikka> loading tai in an old game or with other city sets, I don't know what it will do, so it's not supported :)
12:33:49 <ZxBiohazardZx> well it works fine solo
12:33:59 <ZxBiohazardZx> i had swedish houses added to it for a while
12:34:05 <ZxBiohazardZx> but i removed it, cities got to big to fast
12:34:09 <ZxBiohazardZx> and ofc those houses died out
12:34:17 <ZxBiohazardZx> now some cities grow as expected :)
12:34:30 <Flygon> I have lots of dying towns in my current game
12:34:32 <ZxBiohazardZx> just a few that are dying out :P
12:34:50 <ZxBiohazardZx> some houses remain, most are gone
12:34:58 <ZxBiohazardZx> a town of 6k down to 1k now :P
12:35:07 <ZxBiohazardZx> the non TAI are gone
12:35:17 <ZxBiohazardZx> and im in 1940's atm
12:35:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> ttrs is not pikka's set Flygon
12:35:37 <Flygon> Oh, you mean Biohazard :p
12:35:50 <Flygon> Mate, when you're as nieve as I am
12:35:57 <Flygon> planetmaker may as well be the lord himself
12:36:08 <Flygon> He made this planet, dangit
12:36:13 <Flygon> He may have done a terrible job
12:36:26 <ZxBiohazardZx> Pikka im using the "old" 0.3 beta
12:36:42 <Pikka> it's not the case that all (city)s are cities
12:37:00 <ZxBiohazardZx> cant im playing chrills patchpack
12:37:10 <ZxBiohazardZx> so the new version wont go in :P
12:37:28 <ZxBiohazardZx> patchpack for i cba to rebuild the network i created so far
12:37:41 <ZxBiohazardZx> and i rely on signals in tunnels/bridges and i like paxdest alot
12:38:14 <ZxBiohazardZx> so pikka in 0.3 ottd how do i figure out a town/city type?
12:39:00 <Pikka> "planned towns" can be spotted by switching the buildings transparent and looking at the scrabble tiles, they'll have no red/pink
12:39:31 <Pikka> otherwise, there's not much difference in 0.3 except the maximum size, and a lack of big buildings in villages
12:39:46 <ZxBiohazardZx> all i have is white (churches) a few blue (R-com) and grey buildings (non-TAI tiles i think...)
12:39:57 <ZxBiohazardZx> could be bug due to the Swedish Houses removal
12:40:10 <ZxBiohazardZx> but again i dont feel like restarting the map and trying to get perfect town placement again
12:40:12 <ZxBiohazardZx> just not worth it
12:40:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> ill just feed it pax/mail and goods and wait for the town/city to grow
12:43:58 <ZxBiohazardZx> ah it grows already
12:44:16 <ZxBiohazardZx> it has pink so its not planned :)
12:48:06 <peter1138> yeah adding/removing town sets is likely to leave towns growing or shrinking absurdly
12:48:17 <peter1138> usual answer is "don't do that"
12:49:21 <peter1138> by pink do you mean creamy?
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13:08:11 <ZxBiohazardZx> peter1138 i know, but its still better then crossing fingers on RNG to get exact same map
13:09:06 <peter1138> well you will with the same seed
13:09:46 <peter1138> might end up with different stuff though
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13:19:42 <Terkhen> hi dihedral and andythenorth
13:21:03 <drac_boy> are planes only dual-cargo when it comes to pass/mail or can you use that for dual freight cargos as well?
13:21:52 <ZxBiohazardZx> yeah i have used a heightmap for it already
13:22:14 <ZxBiohazardZx> and im just gonna play till i connected everything then just play the heighmap on diff grfset
13:22:30 <ZxBiohazardZx> hoping at least 2-3 towns are same :P
13:22:48 <drac_boy> guess I'll have to just skip on planes....unless I can find how to make a mail-less plane heh
13:23:00 <ZxBiohazardZx> refit to pax-only?
13:25:14 <drac_boy> ZxBiohazardZx yeah .. coding them for only pax alone can't be too hard I hope...still have to look it up tho
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13:37:06 <drac_boy> ZxBiohazardZx I sometimes wonder if I'm not the only one to wonder about having passenger-only trains then wanting to add planes only to run into the problem of suddenly having mail piling up at the stations :s
14:08:47 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: that for some reason https://binaries does (did?) not seem to work, but it seems like you might've solved that already
14:11:45 <TrueBrain> I did not such thing
14:11:49 <TrueBrain> the user uses a tool that is broken
14:11:52 <TrueBrain> so .... what can I say?
14:12:30 <TrueBrain> that URL worked fine, works fine, and will work fine :P
14:13:49 <drac_boy> mm looking at aircraft actions I almost forgot one more other thing
14:14:02 <drac_boy> do aircraft coders usually use the maximum or cruising speed?
14:21:23 <Stimrol> (translation) anyone have any idea where this is ingame --> STR_INDUSTRY_CARGOES_SELECT_CARGO_TOOLTIP --> {BLACK}Select the cargo you want to display
14:23:44 <andythenorth> might be cargo chain view
14:23:50 * andythenorth didn't search the src though
14:24:50 <Stimrol> good idea, going to look at it
14:25:24 <ZxBiohazardZx> drac_boy there are sets that have pax-only liveries, look better ?
14:25:27 <Stimrol> andythenorth, 10 points
14:26:13 <drac_boy> ZxBiohazardZx well pax livery doesn't help that it still makes the airport piled up with mails which wasn't what you expected :)
14:28:28 <drac_boy> ZxBiohazardZx so do you have any idea re plane speeds or not so much?
14:35:18 <ZxBiohazardZx> i hardly ever use planes so
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15:35:09 <drac_boy> guess it looks like cruising speed then
15:37:14 <oskari89> About OpenTTDCoop DevZone, what theme it uses?
15:39:18 <planetmaker> it uses a somewhat custom one, iirc
15:39:34 <planetmaker> but Ammler knows better which redmine theme it uses, the DevZone
15:50:30 <drac_boy> someone want to tell me if I missed anything here? assuming sand is 1500kg/cubic-meter and the wagon can hold 2cu.m of this then that mean it would had been about 3 tons worth of laden weight?
16:11:17 <Ammler> you are very welcome to contribute a better one ;-)
16:19:38 * drac_boy thinks where to let players get cattle from in the game
16:31:28 <drac_boy> mm I already have a farm so... :-s
16:32:24 <Kitty> is there a way to merge two stations?
16:32:42 <planetmaker> no, you can't do that, Kitty
16:32:48 <planetmaker> you can only add to existing stations
16:32:56 <planetmaker> *new pieces to existing stations
16:45:00 <drac_boy> peter1138 so unless the newgrf introduces a third output slot its not going to work to lump cattle into the farm :)
16:45:29 <drac_boy> kitty I'm guessing you built two stations currently in use and wished it had been one?
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16:49:18 <drac_boy> well kitty only way is to destroy one station...reschedule any vehicles affected to the 'other' station
16:49:24 <drac_boy> thats afaik, sorry :->
16:54:45 <ZxBiohazardZx> other then gameplay what keeps cargodest/paxdest from trunk?
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17:00:51 <greatkhan> i've been looking to get involved...has anyone else done any work on these already?
17:02:20 <ZxBiohazardZx> is it possible to change inflation on/off via console in multiplayer?
17:03:07 <planetmaker> greatkhan, afaik no-one works on that at the moment
17:04:04 <planetmaker> though I consider that rather features than bugs ;-)
17:04:32 <greatkhan> thanks @planetmaker ... i'll give it a try..and yeah, i realized it was a feature the minute i hit "enter" :P
17:05:01 <planetmaker> greatkhan, there's a list of wanted features on our wiki. Maybe something is there for you, as well...
17:05:45 <planetmaker> some of the stuff there has been worked on the the last months, some already finished, other is WIP
17:05:53 <greatkhan> i was looking for something small...never done any open-source stuff before and it's been years since i coded c/c++ ... not even sure i'll be able to accomplish this
17:06:13 <planetmaker> I'm not actually sure those two FS tasks are small :-)
17:06:15 <greatkhan> and this was the only un-assigned thing in the "Easy" list in todos
17:06:33 <planetmaker> oh, they're there. Then yes :-)
17:07:43 <greatkhan> thanks...i'll report back if i have any progress or questions...
17:08:03 <planetmaker> sure :-) This channel is a good place. Or #openttd.dev
17:08:21 <planetmaker> which is the channel dedicated to discuss patches exclusively
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17:51:38 <peter1138> huh, you can still rename engines? hah
17:53:25 <Stimrol> what is this --> STR_ABOUT_MENU_TOGGLE_BOUNDING_BOXES --> Toggle bounding boxes
17:53:35 <Stimrol> Dont even know what this is or where to find it
17:53:49 <peter1138> it's on the question-mark menu
17:53:55 <peter1138> you might need developer mode on
17:54:14 <peter1138> it draws boxes helpful for newgrf authors
17:54:19 <peter1138> well, maybe helpful
17:59:30 <Stimrol> peter1138, thanks, I tried to start with openttd -d and it did not show up
18:01:10 <Stimrol> ok so it is not both there
18:01:47 <Stimrol> ahh I set it in openttd.cfg :) thanks
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18:22:06 <Kitty> hwo do I get auto renew to work ?
18:25:05 <Kjetil> You enable it in the options?
18:31:46 <Kitty> Some planes crash a lot more than others don't they ?
18:38:55 <planetmaker> Kitty, don't have large planes land on small airports
18:39:02 <planetmaker> that drastically increases crash rate
18:46:08 <fonsinchen> Rubidium: Can you tell me how the compile farm manages to get multi-gigabyte checkouts?
18:46:23 <fonsinchen> I just verified with a fresh clone and that's 200MB
18:46:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24873 /trunk/src/lang (14 files in 2 dirs) (2012-12-30 18:46:18 UTC)
18:46:40 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:41 <DorpsGek> bulgarian - 13 changes by Tvel
18:46:42 <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 31 changes by xiangyigao
18:46:43 <DorpsGek> czech - 16 changes by Eskymak
18:46:44 <DorpsGek> danish - 48 changes by Knogle
18:46:45 <DorpsGek> english_AU - 1 changes by Rubidium
18:46:46 <DorpsGek> english_US - 1 changes by Rubidium
18:46:47 <DorpsGek> estonian - 22 changes by runekri3
18:46:48 <DorpsGek> icelandic - 145 changes by Stimrol
18:46:49 <DorpsGek> indonesian - 9 changes by fanioz
18:46:50 <DorpsGek> korean - 116 changes by telk5093
18:46:51 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 148 changes by Inspirion, cuthbert
18:46:52 <DorpsGek> polish - 7 changes by wojteks86
18:46:53 <DorpsGek> slovenian - 64 changes by gligoran
18:46:54 <DorpsGek> tamil - 157 changes by aswn
18:47:12 <fonsinchen> OK, 250MB unpacked, 200MB transfer volume
18:47:18 <Alberth> people have been busy :)
18:48:28 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: TrueBrain said the checkout was like 1.5 GiB for cargodist a few days ago (or I misunderstood him)
18:48:55 <fonsinchen> I've heard that before, but I can't reproduce it.
18:49:14 <fonsinchen> I'd like to know what exact command he's issuing.
18:50:32 <fonsinchen> I'll write him a PM on the forums
18:50:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24874 trunk/src/lang/romanian.txt (2012-12-30 18:50:37 UTC)
18:50:44 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Incorrect Romanian own name
18:51:16 <TrueBrain> fonsinchen: once again the git checkout was so large
18:51:20 <TrueBrain> that it consumed 1.4GiB on disk
18:51:31 <fonsinchen> how did you do that?
18:51:33 <TrueBrain> I can't remember how we fixed it last time, but it is getting rather annoying (To say the least :P)
18:51:43 <fonsinchen> If I check it out it's 250MB
18:52:01 <TrueBrain> *shrug* - I suggest to read back the IRC log last time :P
18:52:11 <fonsinchen> sorry for the annoyance.
18:52:34 <fonsinchen> We didn't find out. Somehow you changed it to "shallow" checkouts, which had their own problems
18:52:45 <fonsinchen> then you changed it back and it worked fine for a while
18:53:01 <TrueBrain> well .. clearly it is only for a while :D
18:53:24 <fonsinchen> Are you checking out into the same repository every time?
18:53:33 <fonsinchen> or are you creating a new one?
18:53:41 <TrueBrain> it is Bamboo doing all that; I wouldnt really know
18:53:43 <TrueBrain> it should just update
18:53:56 <fonsinchen> Obviously it does something wrong
18:53:57 <TrueBrain> so I am guessing it goes wrong on every rebase
18:54:19 <TrueBrain> I think it is related to the fact you make branches every time
18:54:52 <fonsinchen> Actually I've kept the branches persistent for some time now and they only add a few Megabytes in total.
18:55:12 <TrueBrain> but have you checked if you have master as checkout
18:55:13 <planetmaker> a few * 100 = 1GByte ;-)
18:55:20 <TrueBrain> after you made a branch
18:56:30 <TrueBrain> okay, lets login to the system ... main git checkout is 229 MiB, branch 'cd'
18:56:36 <fonsinchen> That's somewhat hard to reproduce as I can't create a repository with only "master"
18:57:25 <TrueBrain> then lets see what ends up in the clone of that clone
18:57:40 <TrueBrain> very large .pack files
18:58:08 <TrueBrain> in .git/objects/pack/ are many large files
18:58:11 <TrueBrain> still unpacking ...
18:58:55 <TrueBrain> yeah, many .pack files
18:59:02 <TrueBrain> every oone around 189 MiB
18:59:15 <TrueBrain> the more I Work with git, the more I fucking hate it (Excuse my language)
18:59:41 <fonsinchen> that's crazy. My personal repository is taking a lot of abuse and I have some files with a few MB there
19:00:02 <TrueBrain> ah, see, what I thought ...
19:00:06 <TrueBrain> what appears to go wrong is this:
19:00:15 <TrueBrain> git pull is done every time in the same directory with the same git
19:00:22 <TrueBrain> when you rebase, or make a branch, what ever
19:00:26 <TrueBrain> instead of removin the old
19:00:29 <TrueBrain> it keeps that brnach too
19:00:36 <andythenorth> pikka there are others too :P
19:00:40 <Pikka> far too lazy to do snow versions :)
19:00:46 <fonsinchen> actually that shouldn't be a problem.
19:00:48 <TrueBrain> so I have many many many .pack files ... every new update a new one
19:00:50 <andythenorth> I have an expert doing my snow
19:00:59 <TrueBrain> if "not a problem" is 200 MiB, sure :D
19:01:15 <fonsinchen> there are some options about automatic repacking and garbage collection. Let me look these up
19:03:09 <TrueBrain> guess it should clean the director every time
19:03:14 <TrueBrain> expensive bandwidth wise ...
19:03:18 <TrueBrain> but it is expensive anyway
19:03:54 <fonsinchen> can you show me the output of "git config gc.auto"?
19:03:57 <TrueBrain> it is too bad your rebases means it has to redownload the whole freaking history again
19:04:12 <peter1138> bah, why do cities hate me just for building a station on track i already own? :S
19:04:24 <peter1138> aren't rebases meant to be avoided?
19:04:26 <TrueBrain> not set, but such solutions aren't really solutions either, sadly
19:04:38 <Rubidium> peter1138: inner city reconstruction causes a lot of mess ;)
19:04:49 <fonsinchen> I can choose between rebasing and incredibly messy history
19:05:00 <fonsinchen> for code review rebases are clearly better
19:05:12 <TrueBrain> it just hands you a full new tree every time
19:05:23 <TrueBrain> I wonder if it could be done better, like github does with forks etc
19:05:27 <peter1138> it reorganises the commits
19:05:36 <fonsinchen> It hands you a few commits on trunk and my ~20 commits
19:05:38 <TrueBrain> where you have a master, which are the OpenTTD commits
19:05:42 <TrueBrain> and a branch which has your commits
19:05:49 <TrueBrain> then a rebase should be much smaller, bandwidth wise I guess
19:05:53 <TrueBrain> but .. I dont really know git
19:06:06 <TrueBrain> fonsinchen: you hand a new .pack file of 200 MiB :P
19:06:06 <peter1138> if you had other people working on it, rebasing would be a right bitch
19:06:27 <fonsinchen> that's why I'm keeping the old branches around
19:06:46 <TrueBrain> hmm, I am pretty sure I had the option to clean out the source directory ....
19:06:49 <TrueBrain> but how and where ....
19:08:07 <TrueBrain> ah; I already enabled that
19:08:11 <TrueBrain> why you not working do
19:08:28 <TrueBrain> ah, only works if it was sucessful
19:08:55 <fonsinchen> "git config gc.autopacklimit 1" and "git config gc.auto 1" should do it
19:09:04 <fonsinchen> then it will repack everytime you pull
19:09:22 <TrueBrain> it would only make very large packs
19:09:24 <TrueBrain> instead of many small
19:09:29 <TrueBrain> as it has the branches too
19:09:32 <TrueBrain> so that won't really work
19:09:41 <fonsinchen> no, it is smart enough to see that all the trunk commits are the same
19:10:03 <fonsinchen> I don't actually know why it doesn't see that in advance, but obviously it doesn't
19:12:11 * TrueBrain murmbles something about git and blegh
19:13:03 <TrueBrain> right; have to wait for the nightly to finish
19:13:22 <fonsinchen> I can't test it either, unfortunately
19:13:23 <TrueBrain> tried some other things that _should_ help
19:13:31 <fonsinchen> git gc --aggressive
19:13:33 <TrueBrain> silly git being silly ...
19:13:42 <fonsinchen> that should give an immediate remedy too
19:13:46 <TrueBrain> your solutions dont solve the issue
19:13:49 <TrueBrain> I dont want to keep the branches alive
19:14:25 <fonsinchen> but if you do a gc now, then remember the size and check again tomorrow you should know if my previous suggestion helps
19:14:45 <TrueBrain> but I will still have all those idling branches
19:14:48 <TrueBrain> which is like .. euh .. not good :D
19:14:52 <glx> TrueBrain: fighting your opendune checkout ?
19:14:54 <fonsinchen> As long as I keep the branches alive you will have to live with them
19:14:59 <TrueBrain> glx: nope, his cd :P
19:15:03 <fonsinchen> howeever, they're not expensive
19:15:14 <fonsinchen> they're only about 20 commits each
19:15:20 <TrueBrain> but they shouldn't be there .. so, lets see what happens if I remove .git every time
19:15:24 <TrueBrain> and make a new pull ..
19:15:31 <fonsinchen> the issue is some other misbehaviour in your version of git
19:15:37 <fonsinchen> you can do that, too
19:15:43 <TrueBrain> my version? Pff, it is what github sends me :P
19:15:46 <Alberth> or just export the current tip, or is that not an option?
19:16:44 <Alberth> or archive, or whatever git calls the set of current sources without repo
19:17:10 <TrueBrain> but then find-version wont work :P
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19:26:50 <TrueBrain> fonsinchen: well, it is building again, and removed all the shit after him .. it seems to be 200 MiB now ...
19:26:56 <TrueBrain> but it might work now ....
19:27:09 <TrueBrain> please drop by when you do a new rebase, so I can check if it is still okay?
19:27:13 <TrueBrain> that would be much appreciated :)
19:34:08 <TrueBrain> sorry about me rambling about git :P
20:14:37 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd
20:16:30 <andythenorth> how's your code going?
20:16:31 <drac_boy> how doing? still drunk with beer? heh heh
20:16:37 <andythenorth> have you shipped a release yet?
20:16:57 <drac_boy> its still in tracking table stage
20:37:52 <planetmaker> get coding some concept, drac_boy
20:38:06 <planetmaker> keep your big plan in mind. But start making the actual first steps
20:39:12 <planetmaker> you often get new ideas which coding anyway. And you'll find obstacles as well. Both of which will influence the result. And obsolete parts of the initial planning. Thus don't get too detailed before you have something to toy with
20:41:37 <planetmaker> otherwise you run the risk to create one of those eternal show-case and screenshot only "products" ;-)
20:43:33 <drac_boy> planetmaker heh thats why I've had to ask about some of the industry and then plane things
20:43:41 <drac_boy> the trains are still somwhat too easy on other hand :)
20:43:56 <planetmaker> all newgrfs are "easy". The devil is in the details
20:44:04 <drac_boy> might be first screenshot would be just the trains alone tho...but who knows just yet
20:44:40 <planetmaker> if you want to address trains, planes and industries: that's three different newgrfs anyway
20:45:12 <planetmaker> at least it's calling for annoyance to mix them in one newgrf :-)
20:45:26 <drac_boy> less annoyance than having a grf that doesn't work due to not having other grf tho
20:45:49 <planetmaker> planes, trains and industries can usually work well without the others
20:46:03 <planetmaker> what reason is there to put them in one single monolithic newgrf?
20:49:35 <drac_boy> planetmaker I haven't found anything on this yet but what happens if you load a vehicle grf that has no cargo class to refit to at all?
20:50:24 <planetmaker> the usual thing which always happens: you have a problem. But that doesn't mean you should add vehicles to an industry newgrf
20:50:42 <drac_boy> actually theres no problem...its just that the vehicle is not supposed to be stand-alone
20:51:05 <planetmaker> it's openttd's task to warn the user that he'll have cargos he can't transport
20:51:07 <drac_boy> planetmaker then could someone tell me what happens if you load a grf with no cargo class to use?
20:51:57 <planetmaker> I don't understand. There's no vehicle newgrf out htere which doesn't allow refit via classes
20:52:52 <planetmaker> if you add vehicles to your industry newgrf, you force the players to use your vehicles. While there are dozens of vehicle sets out there.
20:53:00 *** Arendtse1 is now known as Arendtsen
20:53:03 <planetmaker> and you limit the scope of your industries drastically
20:53:36 <peter1138> drac_boy, regarding your farm, that's what CB 14C can do
21:12:53 <__ln__> anyone been on a roadtrip in new york, new jersey, ohio, around there?
21:15:39 <drac_boy> bulk+refrigerated+hazardous+powderized .... thats as close as it can get to the limited cargo class list for the planned chemical plant for one, not sure if the refit prop can take all of that in
21:16:06 <drac_boy> __ln__ been to sycrasus twice some time ago but otherwise guess I'm no help with that sorry
21:17:50 <planetmaker> drac_boy, the plant can only produce two cargos anyway
21:18:34 <planetmaker> you can change the accepted and produced cargos via callback.
21:18:48 <planetmaker> But I can guarantee you that it will become quite confusing for the players
21:22:04 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
21:22:57 <drac_boy> I wasn't really talking about the plant itself, rather more of the cargo it produced. the cargo class list just doesn't seem to have a good way to define some cargos without needing several classes combined together
21:24:32 <drac_boy> at least some other things like wood are already obvious and existing
21:30:22 <peter1138> why do they have to love eating stuff which is really bad for them
21:31:22 <peter1138> drac_boy, cargo classes are already defined
21:31:34 <drac_boy> I never understood that :-s .. I think goats are worser when they eat non-food things!
21:31:37 <peter1138> you could define your own but without concensus it's pointless
21:32:18 <peter1138> well, they're just gluttons like us, but we have a little more brain-power
21:32:41 <peter1138> but no, dog, you can't have that chocolate, nor that christmas pudding
21:38:04 *** kais58 is now known as kais58|AFK
21:40:30 <drac_boy> btw planetmaker yeah the calback 14B/C I've read a bit about and indeed don't think I would want to consider it except for the industry warehouse thing perhaps
21:49:40 <planetmaker> drac_boy, there's no problem to assign a few cargo classes to a certain cargo. But mind, "cargo class" is a property of a particular cargo
21:49:43 <planetmaker> not of an industry
21:50:32 <planetmaker> and mind what peter just said about classes :-)
21:52:42 <peter1138> yeah sometimes i know what i'm talking about :)
21:55:30 <oskari89> ATM testing how low can cash be.
21:55:49 <oskari89> I have game running about 160 years
21:56:12 <Markk> Are you testing an ATM?
21:56:43 <oskari89> No, OpenTTD.. 112 billion euros at negative amount
21:56:47 <peter1138> that's what i thought he meant first
22:07:06 <Rubidium> oskari89: somewhere in the order of -2^63
22:07:36 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 9223372036854775808
22:08:03 *** Superuser has joined #openttd
22:09:40 <Rubidium> though around -2^47 'base' currency it could get fishy when using a rate conversion of 65535
22:09:51 <__ln__> btw, nobody can see the string without being logged in, which might be a bit silly, but a fact.
22:09:52 <Superuser> I quote: {WHITE}OpenTTD is build without "zlib" support...
22:10:57 <planetmaker> Superuser, {STRING} can be like "NewGRF", "AI", etc.
22:10:59 <Rubidium> Superuser: STR_CONTENT_TYPE_<xyz>
22:11:37 <planetmaker> it's another string. And why do you highlight t3rkhen?
22:11:38 <Superuser> as for the no zlib string, please correct the English original to say 'built' instead of 'build'
22:11:52 <Superuser> because, uhh, he has a good track record of getting my pedantic corrections in
22:14:05 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24875 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2012-12-30 22:13:59 UTC)
22:14:06 <DorpsGek> -Fix: grammatical error (Superuser)
22:14:19 <Superuser> I love you DorpsGek
22:14:54 <planetmaker> looks better. Better discernible numbers
22:16:04 <planetmaker> even though there usually shoud not be, I indeed find it useful to ignore the typographic rule there
22:16:36 <Superuser> actually, in mathematical notation they are usually placed together
22:16:51 <planetmaker> Feel free to not leave it in your translation, if you think it is better to not keep the gap
22:17:05 <Superuser> but most English style guides recommend symbols and notation such as 'm' for metres should in fact be placed with a space between them and the number
22:17:16 <planetmaker> in every notation it's usual to have no gap there. But test it. You see the numbers better with a gap
22:17:51 <peter1138> i'm missing black as a CC :(
22:18:33 <planetmaker> peter1138, dark gray
22:18:43 <planetmaker> black has few shades, really
22:18:49 <peter1138> not available, just grey :(
22:19:12 <peter1138> is some way to map any hue ;)
22:19:19 <peter1138> like the old 32bpp ez stuff used to do
22:19:28 <peter1138> but do it not badly, heh
22:20:41 <peter1138> pretty sure it wouldn't be that hard to do
23:21:01 *** Devroush has joined #openttd
23:27:36 * drac_boy can't find anything I like at all? :P
23:35:24 <drac_boy> btw can you only check if an adjacent tile is water or not.. or can you check for sea vs canal?
23:56:49 *** ZxBiohazardZx has joined #openttd
23:57:03 <ZxBiohazardZx> while running openttd in dedi mode is there an "easy" way to make it auto-pause if no clients are connected?
23:57:58 <ZxBiohazardZx> or does it pause when there are no clients?
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