IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-12-12
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01:33:09 <drac_boy> just wondering but any of you think that its a probable bug if you click on 'passengers' in the refit list for sure yet your plane still carries some non-passenger cargos too?
01:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that is by design
01:35:16 <drac_boy> so...wheres the actual passenger refit then? :)
01:36:50 <drac_boy> tbh tho...I can't imagine how anyone can even use planes with tourists at all if the tourist centers don't accept mail yet you are forced to pick up mail from the town airport yet ... theres just no logic in that one
01:37:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so the flaw is that the tourist centers don't produce mail
01:38:13 <Eddi|zuHause> (likewise with the original oil platform, anyway)
01:38:20 <drac_boy> nope..the flaw is that the plane can't actually refit in contrast to what the list says?
01:38:42 <drac_boy> if its supposed to always be two slots then why can't I ask it to take two freights just as well?
01:41:00 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a mail compartment if it's refit to passengers, and no mail compartment if refit to anything else... what's the problem?
01:41:38 <drac_boy> well if its supposed to force pax/mail all the times then why can't I have dual freights too?
01:42:45 <drac_boy> but anyway just wanted to say all of that ^^ ... thats all :)
01:44:59 <Eddi|zuHause> because dual cargo doesn't fit into the GUI
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08:57:45 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln___: as long as they don't get amd-ish and phase out systems built 2 years ago...
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09:08:36 <krinn> hi, i have a stuck airport with opengfx 0.3, where i can bugreport it ?
10:00:45 <Ammler> opengfx 0.3 is outdated...
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13:22:17 * drac_boy thinks perk need to stop perking everything
13:23:51 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
13:24:03 <Flygon> You know what needs a perk?
13:24:14 <Flygon> Poor thing get nerfed to hell and back
13:24:59 * drac_boy whacks flygon with an aussie coal shovel
13:25:20 <drac_boy> guess I can't stop doing that... how're you anyway?
13:25:30 <Flygon> We used mechanical stokers @_@
13:26:08 <drac_boy> I don't think all of them always did tho
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13:32:28 <drac_boy> btw flygon here's another one that I only found out about recently...
13:34:13 <drac_boy> the infamous short lived T1 locomotive from PRR? one was actually sent to N&W for a bit of road test but they prefer to buy more of their own J1 (which were conventional fast 4-8-4's) .. and the funny thing tho was that even PRR had to borrow one J1 for their own testing too
13:34:37 <drac_boy> talk about testing each others' newest design but not wanting to flip :)
13:35:18 <Flygon> Perhaps they had found better economies of scale with their own locos?
13:37:42 <drac_boy> maybe but still a T1 is an experinmental duplex drive locomotive with yet more other little-tested things including poppy valves etc .. while the J1 was just as conventional as anything could be
13:37:55 <drac_boy> so go figure with that
13:39:57 <drac_boy> flygon btw that reminds me of a slight humorful railfan story from the 1950s....
13:41:46 <drac_boy> two people were trackside (on a long slight uphill) to take some photos then soon they saw a local 0-8-0 that was running with a bit of worried authority ... the two wondered why such a lowly train could be trying to move fast till they checked their timetable...
13:42:07 <drac_boy> turned out there had been a miscalculation....there was an express right behind them....can you say ops to the dispatcher? :)
13:43:50 <drac_boy> anyway turned out the express was a J1 that was already slowing down at the last orange signal ... but the local freight had started heading downhill by then so the red signal cleared early and the two men were quite in for a shock when the J1 started going from 10mph to over 50mph before the tail had cleared the signal
13:44:10 <drac_boy> talk about a fine locomotive that could reaccerlate a heavy train uphill without one single slip :)
13:44:16 <drac_boy> (thats what they quoted)
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13:50:44 <drac_boy> anyway flygon anything you want to say about your own trains? :)
13:50:54 <Flygon> Sorry for the delay, irl stff
13:51:37 <Flygon> No good ones here, sorry
13:52:29 <drac_boy> flygon hmm well theres a WWII dated one I kinda still recall....
13:53:53 <drac_boy> there was a particular local train that made an out and return from yard with varying freights (including tanks too) ... anyway this one .... it was at the other end of route and thats where the story starts ...
13:54:43 <drac_boy> had no problem till they were getting to the grade ... slip a bit .. started slow down .. more slipping ... finally train stalled ... brakeman got out to check sand pipes then the dome ... nothing was coming out .. thought it was a defective air valve ...
13:55:28 <drac_boy> by then the rear conductor had came out and suggested they would have to doublehead.. engineer took a spat at that but eventually agreed .. and they tied up both cuts into the siding on top as the conductor phoned for some assistance
13:56:52 <drac_boy> took a while before one finally showed up .. actually it had been an old 4-6-0 that decided to drop its few freight wagons and take its caboose and come to the rescue ... the original engineer had a bit of laugh saying now there was an engine as old as its engineer! the fireman onboard shot back saying this was better than going to the ymca gym (no stroker yeah)
13:57:47 <drac_boy> finally they decided that the locomotive could lay sand aside to helping as much as it could .. and the train finally made good time coming into the yard as the sand-faulty locomotive cut out to head to the shed
13:58:15 <drac_boy> the small locomotive only had 210psi boiler too ... thats how old it was :->
13:59:55 <drac_boy> then again WWII bought a lot of otherwise-stored locomotives out back into service till 1946 so .. eh
14:05:53 <drac_boy> flygon about your australia gauge problems .. I'm just wondering if they ever regauged locomotives over there or not so much?
14:06:08 <Flygon> They were designed to be regauged
14:06:21 <Flygon> All were build with 1435mm in mind, after 1930
14:06:46 <drac_boy> wonder if the broad gauge locomotive looks wide on non-broad tracks :)
14:17:50 <cibuk> Při hraní open ttd mi dopravní prostředky (vlaky i auta) vozí do stanic u továren potřebné zboží,ale továrny nic neprodukují. Poraďte někdo proč. Díky čibuk
14:19:33 <Flygon> drac_boy: Boilers here rarely broke the 160psi mark
14:19:50 <Flygon> Heavy Harry and NSWGR's high performance locomotives would be the rare exceptions
14:20:08 <drac_boy> Heavy Harry? why does that makes me thinking its a freight drag locomotive?
14:21:36 <Flygon> It was DESIGNED for an intercapital express (basically, 115-130kmph for 800-900 kilometers)
14:21:52 <Flygon> So it became a heavy freight haulage locomotive, because only ONE line supported it's weight
14:21:57 <Flygon> Hence, the name, Heavy Harry
14:22:09 <Flygon> WWII made it so that only H-class happened
14:22:33 <Flygon> It did also make some Spirit of Progress services, but it was avoided, because it wasn't a streamliner
14:22:42 <Flygon> And some enthusiastic drivers would also break the timetable :p
14:22:55 <Flygon> (well, more than they would with the S-class...)
14:23:34 <drac_boy> heh whats wrong with breaking timetables? :P
14:23:51 <Flygon> The line wasn't certified for such insane speeds
14:24:06 <Flygon> 115km/h was the typical max (with quite a few 80km/h segments)
14:24:18 <Flygon> Enthusiastic drivers in an S-class, when the paper recorder ran out, reached 138km/h
14:24:27 <Flygon> And, unofficially, around 14xkm/h range
14:24:34 <Flygon> Imagine what the H-class would do :p
14:25:07 <Flygon> I know that sounds slow, but keep in mind, this's Australia
14:25:35 <Flygon> Fastest steam loco, incidentally, was one of the NSWGR ones that ran the Newcastle Flyer... can't remember the class designation
14:25:39 <Flygon> They used a different one to Victoria
14:25:53 <Flygon> But it regulary broke 160km/h... and actually LOOKED like a bullet
14:26:02 <Flygon> Steam Bullet Locomotive :D
14:26:38 <drac_boy> flygon btw you're not the only one .. there were some 2-10-4's in new england that had small tires which did not give to much counterweight so they did a lot of damage to the track at over 35mph ... some engineers still drove them a bit fast anyway
14:26:52 <Flygon> Apperantly it's Australia's most recognizable locomotive. I didn't hear about it until a year ago. :p
14:27:11 <Flygon> Engineers ran out of paper too? :P
14:27:24 <drac_boy> nothing like being trackside in the middle of winter when everything is frozen .. then you see one of these massive locomotive doing well more than 35mph with a heavy train :)
14:27:39 <drac_boy> try imagine that during the summer months!
14:28:02 <Flygon> Here, summer means over 47c on a good day
14:28:17 <Flygon> We end up with universal 80km/h speed restrictions @_@
14:28:35 <Flygon> I hope, when they build the bullet train line, they use damn heavy steel... to prevent this issue >_>
14:28:56 <Flygon> But yeah, I imagine, in summer, rails would bend :p
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14:34:57 <drac_boy> flygon when did australia start with superheaters anyway?
14:35:11 <Flygon> I am actually not sure... sorry
14:35:29 <Flygon> Wikipedia is a good bet. Peeps have chronicled the history of locomotives well, there
14:35:35 <Flygon> Pre-1920 is sketchy, though
14:37:07 <drac_boy> well canada started with some quirky water reheaters on west coast which didn't fare so well .. then wasn't too long later before they gradually started using europe-alike superheaters all across canada
14:38:56 <drac_boy> flygon then again canada has some interesting histories itself...
14:39:24 <drac_boy> guess what came with the reheaters? 0-6-6-0 mallets meant for more or less banking duties through the BC mountains .. they had a short life alas as usual
14:40:15 <drac_boy> then again there were many emd F units in canada .. but only two lone E in the entire history .. they were for the montreal-newyork route interestingly enough
14:40:48 <drac_boy> and thats not even going into the differences between CN and CP (why is it that one road choose dual duty locomotives while other goes with seperate mix of freight and passenger duty ones?)
14:41:03 <drac_boy> but anyway I don't think you want to bother hearing all the details I know of ;)
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14:43:31 <Flygon> It seems confusing anyway :p
14:55:43 <drac_boy> well flygon have fun with whatever you're currently working at .. I'm going off for now ok?
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16:25:05 <alandarev> heya, I got short question. Can I run AI in multiplayer? (WAant to hang out with a friend against computers in LAN)
16:27:06 <V453000> alandarev: yes, there is even a setting for it
16:27:15 <V453000> allow AI in multiplayer or something like that
16:27:19 <V453000> under competitors in adv. settings
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16:40:05 <alandarev> V453000: excellent, thank you!
16:40:27 <V453000> you are welcome ... I think using AIs is a bit pointless though ;)
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16:40:51 <alandarev> V453000: why? :( And could you advice an AI for beginners? (we are beginners :D )
16:41:02 <alandarev> we want some extra competition for more fun
16:41:58 <V453000> openttd cant be competed in
16:42:49 <Pinkbeast> My advice would be to pick one of the railway-only ones. AIs that use RVs seem to love to swamp the world with them.
16:43:30 <V453000> well that is the whole point of AI to me, flood the map with -stuff- for no reason
16:44:22 <Bad_Brett> i just got an idea for a GS
16:45:15 <Bad_Brett> what if you you could offer the industries a better deal than your competitors?
16:46:34 <Bad_Brett> so that they only have to pay have as much
16:46:38 <Bad_Brett> or something like that
16:47:32 <alandarev> V453000: I see, so your suggestion is to not use AI's, I need to think over it. yet can anyone suggest 'best' in their opinion AI for multiplayer of casual friends?
16:48:00 <V453000> you will probably come to a similar conclusion sooner or later after you discover that they are worthless ;)
16:48:22 <V453000> also it is fun to talk to others, there are some nice servers around
16:49:47 <alandarev> another issue. We are relatively new to OpenTTD but love custom content. any ranking/popularity/downloads list of modifications? So we can choose few among most popular rather than needing to do case study of hundreds
16:50:03 <V453000> you just have to try really
16:50:12 <V453000> playing on servers with newGRFs gets you to know them, too
16:50:15 <V453000> or even see what is used
16:50:43 <alandarev> before going onto the servers we want to learn playing :D
16:51:16 <V453000> learning online is usually quicker, if you want to learn any of the #openttdcoop servers are great
16:51:19 <Pinkbeast> I usually use andythenorth's FIRS industry set (and his HEQS road vehicles and CHIPS industry stations)
16:51:50 <alandarev> excellent, thanks for the info V453000, Pinkbeast
16:51:51 <Pinkbeast> The EGRVTS road vehicle set. Pikka's av8 and UKRS2 aircraft and railway sets.
16:52:09 <Pinkbeast> (And the 2cc railway set just to fill in a few gaps in UKRS2)
16:52:17 <V453000> the Welcome server on OpenTTD 1.2.3 is generally for absolutely anyone, people who cant build signals come there and they can build very well after just a short time
16:52:21 <Pinkbeast> Nutracks, which UKRS2 really wants these days
16:52:51 <Pinkbeast> Oh, and andy's ship set whose name I forget (and "Sailing Ships" if I plan to start in 1825 or so)
16:53:05 <V453000> how could you forget FISH
16:53:40 <Pinkbeast> Also some other station sets just to fill out a bit of eye candy
16:54:06 <Pinkbeast> Oh, and the generic tram set
16:54:51 <Pinkbeast> Of these, I think UKRS2 (+ addons) is the least generally useful. It's a nice set, but you have to specifically want to play in the history of UK railways.
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16:58:48 <alandarev> eGRVTS is road and tram?
17:00:29 <Pinkbeast> Yes, but I like the generic tram set more. I mostly use eGRVTS's horse-drawn wagonway trams (which need you to turn off realistic RV acceleration, but you can turn it back on once they're gone)
17:00:42 <alandarev> there is eGRVTS2 avaialble as well, is it very different?
17:01:10 <Pinkbeast> I'm not actually sure which eGRVTS I use, I'm afraid, so I could be recommending either. :-/
17:07:03 <alandarev> does eGRVTS support FIRS cargo types? or I need to install something more
17:11:23 <Pinkbeast> Everything I've mentioned plays nice with FIRS
17:13:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
17:18:49 <Eddi|zuHause> "Ihr Postfach hat die Lagerung Grenze, die 20GB ist überschritten wie von Ihrem Administrator festgelegt, sind Sie derzeit auf 20.9GB, können Sie nicht in der Lage zu senden oder zu empfangen neue E-Mail bis Sie erneut validieren Ihre Mailbox. Erneut bestätigen Sie Ihre Mailbox klicken Sie auf den Link unten. [...]" what are the chances of this being spam?
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17:19:53 <alandarev> Do I need to do anyhing extra in settings to allow few trainsets work without conflicts?
17:21:24 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on the trainsets
17:21:58 <Pinkbeast> It's always worth checking the parameters for any newGRF that has them
17:24:23 <FLHerne> alandarev: There are a few issues with eGRVTS 1 and FIRS
17:24:35 <FLHerne> No alcohol vehicles, for example
17:25:28 <FLHerne> It also looks nicer, although I'm not a great fan of either :P
17:26:02 * FLHerne uses HEQS, BATS and Bob's British Buses/Road vehicles
17:28:37 <alandarev> good i installed 2nd egrvts2
17:30:01 <Pinkbeast> Remind me what BATS is?
17:31:09 <FLHerne> Bob & Ameecher's Tram Set
17:31:22 <FLHerne> UK-style trams from 1900ish to the present
17:31:39 <FLHerne> Looks good with Bob's other sets and UKRS2
17:32:28 <Pinkbeast> Ah, yes, I've used that in the past.
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18:45:32 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24818 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2012-12-12 18:45:24 UTC)
18:45:33 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:34 <DorpsGek> catalan - 2 changes by arnau
18:45:35 <DorpsGek> korean - 16 changes by telk5093
18:45:36 <DorpsGek> malay - 113 changes by richz
18:45:47 <NGC3982> My german track got english.
18:46:12 <NGC3982> I'm actually thinking of making an Openttd version of that.
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18:55:11 <andythenorth> what's for Christmas?
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19:22:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
19:30:12 <Alberth> I thought a new firs?
19:53:17 <Alberth> unless you have a few miracles left, freerct is not in a playable state this year :p
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19:56:59 <Rubidium> not enough time in this year?
20:00:49 <andythenorth> not before 21/12/12
20:02:04 <frosch123> 21/12/2112 would look more plausible
20:06:11 <Alberth> I hope to have finished by then :)
20:06:14 <andythenorth> FIRS might be done by then
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20:51:59 <bassals> I was sending andythenorth a Catalan translation for FIRS
20:52:10 <bassals> but I'm not sure it's a correct file
20:52:35 <bassals> should it use UTF-8 instead?
20:53:27 <frosch123> everything in ottd is utf-8
20:54:38 <frosch123> that file seems to be transcoded from utf-8 to non utf-8 and back multiple times
20:54:42 <frosch123> it's totally broken :p
20:55:18 <bassals> yes because he was trying to fix the CR+LF end of lines I think
20:58:05 <frosch123> well, i guess send him the file again as utf-8
20:58:26 <frosch123> resp. open an issue at the devzone
20:59:28 <Rubidium> where did andy get that file from?
20:59:36 <Rubidium> from the forum or from the tracker?
21:00:44 <bassals> he told me to upload it to the forum
21:00:46 <Rubidium> ah, you send it as ISO-8859 it seems
21:01:15 <bassals> yes but unix eol I think
21:02:37 <Rubidium> end-of-line does not matter for NML (I hope)
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21:03:12 <Rubidium> and andy's OS uses unix eol as well
21:03:48 <Rubidium> the conversion from ISO-8859 to UTF-8 was just messed up
21:04:11 <bassals> but well, he just left and
21:04:28 <Eddi|zuHause> so... who else has commit rights? Yexo?
21:04:57 <bassals> yes, I am asking here to see if there is anybody able to reupload it (^_^;)
21:06:09 <bassals> then I guess I can reupload a utf8 version in the forums and hope that everything works
21:07:57 <bassals> Alberth: and then, is there any preference for the eol character?
21:08:35 <Rubidium> glx: you're funny ;)
21:09:37 <Rubidium> hmm... /me is stupid (or not awake)
21:09:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it's way too early :)
21:11:11 <frosch123> how long is it ago that mac used CR ? :p
21:11:31 <Rubidium> until and including Mac OS 9
21:18:08 <Alberth> I don't use anything else :)
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21:20:54 <bassals> I use diferent OS and I'm always with these kind of problems
21:22:25 <Alberth> simplest solution is to pick something very standard such as utf-8, set up the machine correctly, and use the same setup everywhere
21:22:34 <Terkhen> configure your text editor to use always utf-8 and the same EOL format
21:22:36 <Alberth> I pushed the change btw
21:23:07 <Terkhen> are we looking for FIRS translation updates? andy failed to notify me as he sometimes does :P
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21:25:06 <Terkhen> hmm... I'll make a note to look into updatind the spanish translation this weekend
21:25:07 <frosch123> en_au has 2 translated strings? :o
21:25:27 <Terkhen> lately I never have time :/
21:25:44 <frosch123> or does it only contain differences from en_uk?
21:26:23 <Terkhen> oooh, that translation report is nice :P
21:27:00 <Terkhen> urgh, he changed lumber to timber again?
21:27:15 <Terkhen> no thanks, contemplating it is enough :P
21:27:38 <Alberth> yep, and I did not change the Dutch translation for another kind of wood :)
21:28:10 <Terkhen> I did not change it when he changed timber to lumber, and I won't change it this time either
21:28:17 <frosch123> he, the number of "outdated" translations is quite high
21:28:18 <Terkhen> english has a lot of fancy words for wood
21:28:22 <frosch123> andy changes a lot :p
21:28:28 <Terkhen> spanish... not that much
21:28:37 <Alberth> Terkhen: too many words imho :p
21:29:05 <Alberth> You'd expect the Swedish to have many words :)
21:29:18 <Terkhen> Alberth: I agree, too many words is what makes andy doubt of what word to use :P
21:29:34 <Terkhen> I remember reading the discussion about "timber or lumber" and not getting it at all
21:29:55 <Alberth> Too bad you cannot express 'this translation is upto date' in the nml file :(
21:30:10 <Terkhen> IIRC they have slightly different meaning and/or connotations, but meh
21:30:26 <Alberth> yeah, I looked both up in the dictionary and didn't understand the difference as well
21:30:36 <Terkhen> Alberth: I used to add comments to the line such as "#Remove_me_later"
21:30:50 <Terkhen> but I don't know if such an ugly hack would work after the move from pnfo to nml
21:31:13 <frosch123> wiki says "lumber (also called timber)" :p
21:31:59 <Alberth> Terkhen: could be, iirc, nml looks for # at the start of the line only
21:32:37 <Terkhen> oh, I think that lately I just moved the strings around a bit until hg diff shown them as "changed"
21:32:41 <Terkhen> yet another ugly hack
21:32:47 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, and then it goes on with something along the lines of "may mean totally different things depending on where you are"
21:33:01 <Terkhen> but checking strings that are "missing" from your translation to find that you already reviewed them is tiresome
21:33:32 <Alberth> I tried to get off the ground with a translation service, but got stuck at getting a REST server with authentication working :(
21:33:56 <Terkhen> oh, true, IIRC andy was concerned about making an "en_uk" free from "en_us" and "en_au" terms
21:34:01 <Terkhen> maybe lumber/timber is one of those
21:34:15 <Terkhen> color colour, truck lorry
21:34:32 <Alberth> we won't see much difference :)
21:35:58 <Terkhen> IIRC someone complained about americanized terms in the default translation of FIRS, saying that they belonged to en_us :P
21:36:25 <bassals> I'm sorry to go back to my issue, but
21:36:37 <bassals> the diff has some weird stuff
21:36:46 <Terkhen> I can relate, though... es_es and es_mx are not the same thing at all
21:36:56 <FLHerne> Terkhen: And right they are (probably)
21:37:17 <FLHerne> en_uk and en_us are considerably different :P
21:38:10 <Alberth> bassals: diffs often get things incorrect, the main thing that counts is whether the current file is correct, imho
21:38:45 <Terkhen> the current file looks fine, so I wouldn't worry much :)
21:41:12 <Alberth> bassals: quite likely having a diff with bits of files with different encoding is also not helping; all that pseudo-smart encoding recognition software goes haywire :p
21:41:53 <Alberth> anyways, time for bed, good night
23:25:26 *** Superuser has joined #openttd
23:43:56 <V453000> I think I got fed up with the christmas theme for forums in record time this year
23:47:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that takes about 2 seconds for me...
continue to next day ⏵
