IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-12-10
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00:09:38 <Superuser> the original string I mean
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08:24:40 <DDR> GOOD DAY, MY FINE dihedral. HOW ARE YOU??
08:25:05 <dihedral> i feel a little hammerd, by uppercase characters
08:25:30 <DDR> My personality is intoxicating to you?
08:25:54 <Supercheese> Ouch, the old Uppercase Uppercut
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08:36:36 <dihedral> sorry for being strait out, but the only thing that has to do with personality is the lack thereof
08:42:10 <CornishPasty> peter1138: Evil!
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09:15:36 <MNIM> You're not supposed to torture my eyes with that evil image yet until my coffee/tea intake has reached lethal regions yet
09:15:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it's actually fairly easy
09:21:58 <MNIM> it's easy. but not on the eyes
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09:22:48 <MNIM> I already am tired enough to see everything wave and distort sometimes, no need to induce it. >.>
09:25:38 <SpComb> tried to follow a lecture today without my eyeglasses
09:25:46 <SpComb> it was amusing, same kind of feeling
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11:27:51 <NGC3982> Haven't seen that before. "We made"? :D
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12:00:05 <Alver> Does anyone have any pointers where to poke for debugging?
12:01:20 <__ln___> fascinating.. how much do such machines cost?
12:01:51 <Alver> Depending on specs and your luck, couple hundred euros.
12:01:59 <Alver> Mine wasn't that expensive :)
12:02:25 <__ln___> alright.. do they still sell new ones?
12:02:55 <Alver> Just not workstations (mine is the last of that short range)
12:03:02 <michi_cc> I once tried to build OpenTTD on an old PA-RISC machine. I gave up after encountering syntax errors in a system header :(
12:03:25 <Alver> I added shared object libs to the gdb file mentioned above
12:04:05 <Alver> michi_cc: I have PARISC around too... should build just fine :)
12:04:54 <Alver> I'd really love to get it running on this machine, though. I was *very* happy it compiled with only two very minor tweaks, but now it just bails.
12:06:02 <michi_cc> Not sure which HP-UX version it had, but it was an older one. Maybe it would have worked with the commercial HP C/C++ compiler, but that wasn't available so I had to do with what the interwebz provided.
12:06:15 <Alver> 11.11, likely. No gfx support in 11.23 on PA.
12:07:34 <Alver> I'm not really used to debugging though (not to mention debugging C++)... any ideas? :/
12:15:07 <__ln___> i guess you should rebuild openttd with debug symbols or something
12:15:37 <Alver> __ln___: that *is* with debug symbols, for all I know...
12:16:00 <Alver> CFLAGS+= -g, not stripped
12:18:03 <Alver> I guess I'll rebuild with --enable-debug=3 to configure
12:20:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Alver: not sure what you're trying to debug, but "make run_gdb" should start the debugger
12:23:19 <Alver> Eddi|zuHause: I'm building with pkgsrc, so that's another layer inbetween
12:25:15 <Alver> I'm just wondering what is causing this segfault
12:25:40 <Alver> I don't mind looking for workarounds or fixes, but I haven't got the faintest clue what this backtrace means
12:26:15 <Eddi|zuHause> segfaults are nasty, indeed
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13:52:22 <Alver> "Pid 13480 was killed due to failure in writing the signal context - possible stack overflow."
13:56:17 <blathijs> Alver: Perhaps you can fiddle with stack size using ulimit?
14:01:59 <Alver> blathijs: I already seem to have an 8MB stack
14:02:18 <Alver> I'll check if upping to 16M is possible.
14:02:47 <NGC3982> Modern world problem #1
14:03:13 <NGC3982> On a train, craving Openttd on my laptop
14:03:35 <NGC3982> No power, and no power outlets.
14:04:19 <__ln___> No power outlets, what kind of barbaric trains do you have in Sweden?
14:04:58 <NGC3982> The regional trains are a bit old.
14:06:23 <NGC3982> Actually, I think these ones are the oldest ones still in use in the south.
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14:15:22 <Flygon> How can any European regional train lack 240v outlets? D:
14:15:42 <Flygon> Even regional ones here have 240v outlets!... just bring a surge protector @_@
14:16:58 <Alver> blathijs: can't up the stack size any further than 8M.
14:26:41 <Eddi|zuHause> oh no... it's the "cant read the forum anymore" time...
14:28:59 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, both regional and long distance trains are very slowly refitted with power outlets
14:34:26 <NGC3982> Well, these trains used to run short runs in Malm
14:35:08 <NGC3982> And was not designed for traveling long enough routes, making power outlets a resonable upgrade.
14:35:54 <NGC3982> Although, i guess they will be refitted when they visit their first service.
14:36:26 <NGC3982> Trying to play on my dedicated 2048^2 map via 3G was not a fruitful idea.
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14:38:27 <V453000> hm, I guess there isnt any way to make a train travel slower through curves? Like maglev has +100% curve speed, would it be possible to make a maglev train travel curves in speed of rail - but on maglev rails?
14:40:16 <V453000> something like reversed tilt flag
14:40:26 <V453000> which wouldnt increase, but decrease that
14:45:28 <Eddi|zuHause> curve speed is a railtpye property
14:46:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but the granularity is really bad...
14:48:28 <V453000> thanks, I will see if that is a viable option :)
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16:01:45 <dihedral> anybody who could potentially fix a broken lvm partition?
16:07:19 <dihedral> "sda2 too small for target" the lv is suspended
16:08:07 <blathijs> dihedral: And what did you do to get here?
16:08:22 <dihedral> my college tried to extend the partition
16:08:37 <dihedral> i have no idea what commands he issued as they are stored in the broken lvm partition
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16:09:01 <Ammler> there are backups of the lvm config
16:09:24 <dihedral> if there were backups i'd just load those
16:09:48 <Ammler> you have nothing in /etc/lvm/archive ?
16:09:52 <blathijs> This too small error, when do you get that?
16:10:17 <dihedral> Ammler, the partition is /
16:10:27 <dihedral> blathijs, when i tried to active lvm
16:13:05 <blathijs> dihedral: You're running from a live CD or something now?
16:13:18 <blathijs> dihedral: Any chance the kernel you're running now is too old?
16:14:03 <heffer> and how about resizing the lv to something slightly smaller or exactly as large as the space on the partition?
16:14:13 <blathijs> dihedral: Perhaps you could try breaking in the initrd. If it's a debian-based system, adding break=premount (or something like that) could dump you to a shell in initrd
16:14:37 <Alver> Extending a partition... for LVM?
16:14:47 <dihedral> it's a redhat based system
16:14:55 <dihedral> Alver, not really Madness at all
16:15:00 <blathijs> heffer: I don't think this error says "The partition is too big", but this error is saying "The lvm userspace binaries are giving weird commands to the kernel"
16:15:16 <Alver> Yes, very much madness. The very purpose of LVM is not having to deal with crap like partition resizing at all...
16:15:28 <Alver> But anyway, yours is broken.
16:15:29 <dihedral> lvdisplay gives information that the size is actually within bounds
16:15:34 <blathijs> dihedral: The break= trick might work for redhat as well, I think initramfs-tools used by Debian, isn't specific to Debian
16:16:20 <blathijs> Alver: I suspect partition was intented to mean LV above
16:16:43 <Alver> Oh. That does make a big difference. :)
16:17:10 <dihedral> extra drive was added to the system
16:17:13 <blathijs> dihedral: Are you in fact running an older kernel now?
16:17:34 <dihedral> doubt it, redhat 6.3 has an older kernel than arch ;-)
16:18:16 <Alver> dihedral: are you sure that the extra added device is present still?
16:19:47 <dihedral> pvdisplay does list the correct data, yet sfdisk -l says it's a type 83 partition instead of 8e
16:20:20 <Alver> You can change partition type if necessary
16:20:20 <peter1138> that's pretty common
16:20:31 <Alver> But it shouldn't matter much, I would hope
16:20:47 <peter1138> magic autodetection, yeah
16:20:49 <Alver> I would interpret your error as 'your VG says that LV is $x big, but I only see sda2, and that's too small to fit that LV'
16:21:31 <dihedral> sadly that is not correct, the current size of the lv is still small enough to fit
16:21:46 <dihedral> the kernel panict when the person tried the lvresize
16:23:21 <Alver> Hrm, linux' lvdisplay is ass, or else they moved stuff in a place I can't find it
16:23:51 <peter1138> i never bother with lvm
16:23:55 <Alver> dihedral: if it panicked during extending and it won't come up now, the only sane approach is restore from backup.
16:24:05 <Alver> You really cannot trust your data, imo
16:24:07 <peter1138> i don't ever anticipate adding drives and wanting to extend filesystems onto them
16:24:21 <Alver> peter1138: it has major advantages
16:24:31 <dihedral> i prever living without lvm too
16:24:47 <dihedral> and i do resize disks or partitions if it really has to be done
16:24:48 <Alver> You can move filesystems from one storage box to another without the services even noticing
16:25:43 <Rubidium> Alver: that stack overflow warning might 'just' be because of the signal handler abort()-ing
16:25:56 <Rubidium> i.e. it's shown whenever a signal is sent from a signal handler
16:27:33 <blathijs> dihedral: I wonder if you could somehow manually retrieve the block list for your PV and perhaps shorten it to only include the blocks from before the resize
16:27:57 <dihedral> it does not look like the resize actually too place
16:28:26 <blathijs> dihedral: The size is still listed at the old size, you mean?
16:28:49 <blathijs> Perhaps the block list (or Physical Extents they are called, I think) is updated but the size isn't?
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16:33:57 <dihedral> that could very well be the case
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16:51:35 <dihedral> well, thank you anyway
16:51:45 <dihedral> i'll just leave it at that
16:57:33 <peter1138> Data Allowance: Unlimited
16:57:34 <peter1138> Actual Usage: 121.21 GB
16:57:50 <peter1138> 120GB downloaded a month o_O
16:58:06 <peter1138> probably all those THQ games on steam...
16:58:36 <peter1138> If during the month you go over your allocated amount and there isn't enough to cover it in the reserve tank we will add another 5Gig which you will be invoiced at £0.00 per Gig.
16:58:42 <NGC3982> Out of wich contexts?
16:58:57 <peter1138> i guess i have grandfathered account? heh
16:59:40 <NGC3982> Capped (static) broadband connections are evil.
16:59:44 <NGC3982> Almost by definition.
17:01:28 <Pinkbeast> Errr they're also almost ubiquitous, the only question is whether your ISP lies about it
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17:02:04 <Pinkbeast> ... not helped here by the Advertising Standards Authority deciding that ISPs were allowed to lie about it, which is a sod if you want to sell an actually-uncapped connection for businesses
17:04:25 <Superuser> guys, more corrections for the original English strings
17:05:48 <Pinkbeast> "New Path Finder", I think, but please don't take my word for it.
17:05:48 <blathijs> Superuser: New PathFinder
17:06:00 <blathijs> Superuser: Take my word for it (I wrote it)
17:06:03 <Superuser> also, there are some strings that write Maglev as MagLev and others that write it as Maglev
17:06:07 <Superuser> pick one and stick with it
17:06:12 <blathijs> It's not so new anymore, right now though
17:06:26 <Superuser> you could perhaps disambiguate by expanding that acronym?
17:07:07 <blathijs> Superuser: I'm afraid that explicitly writing "New" would only confuse people, given that YAPF is actually newer than NPF
17:07:27 <Superuser> but YAPF is also abbreviated
17:07:33 <Superuser> you should at least let people know what they mean
17:07:57 <Pinkbeast> Suggest "NPF" => "NPF Pathfinder".
17:08:08 <Pinkbeast> Now we know it's a pathfinder but it doesn't suggest it is new. :-)
17:08:09 <Superuser> yeah, recursive acronym lol
17:08:23 <Superuser> PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor
17:08:38 <Superuser> GNU's Not Unix! (I still wonder what it actually is)
17:08:58 <Pinkbeast> I'm entirely serious. What do people want to know? It's a pathfinder. What don't you want to tell them? It's new.
17:09:08 <Pinkbeast> I think it's more than GNU's not UNIX
17:10:08 <Superuser> well, you might as well not people give the option to use that if it has been superseded by YAPF
17:10:24 <Superuser> my bad, not the option, I meant take it out
17:10:28 <Superuser> what am I writing today
17:13:07 <Superuser> anyway, can someone look into my other pedantic corrections, possibly change them in the upstream? Where's Alberth when you need them. :(
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17:15:30 <blathijs> Superuser: I think the NPF string is fine as it is, since it's displayed as one option of several in the UI. i.e. Pathfinder for trains: NPF / YAPF
17:15:58 <Superuser> cool, I have no problem with that, but what about Maglev and MagLev
17:16:13 <Superuser> it's rendered both ways in the upstream (US English) strings.
17:16:26 <blathijs> I would say Maglev is nicer, but I'm not really authorative anymore :-)
17:17:00 <Pinkbeast> Pick whatever looks nicer in the target language and be consistent?
17:17:23 <Superuser> it's just called Maglev in my language, and I assume it's a similar situation for most languages
17:17:46 <Superuser> but anyway, I'm highlighting this problem so that the most-played language version (US English) is ALSO consistent!
17:18:17 <Superuser> My man Alberth would make a change in the code as soon as I pedantically pointed the stuff out, what a guy
17:18:23 <Superuser> though he wouldn't commit straight away
17:18:36 <Superuser> just push all that later with another commit
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18:46:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24816 /trunk/src/lang (12 files in 2 dirs) (2012-12-10 18:46:25 UTC)
18:46:44 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:45 <DorpsGek> basque - 50 changes by lutxiketa
18:46:46 <DorpsGek> belarusian - 2 changes by KorneySan
18:46:47 <DorpsGek> dutch - 22 changes by habell
18:46:48 <DorpsGek> greek - 118 changes by Evropi
18:46:49 <DorpsGek> italian - 2 changes by lorenzodv
18:46:50 <DorpsGek> malay - 17 changes by richz
18:46:51 <DorpsGek> maltese - 24 changes by Drinu276
18:46:52 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 8 changes by lenhoy
18:46:53 <DorpsGek> polish - 36 changes by wojteks86
18:46:54 <DorpsGek> russian - 2 changes by KorneySan
18:46:55 <DorpsGek> swedish - 6 changes by Joel_A
18:46:56 <DorpsGek> vietnamese - 70 changes by myquartz
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19:11:53 <NGC3982> Generating 2048^2 with "many" canals on a P4.
19:12:27 <NGC3982> My computer will spontaniosly turn into a quantum Boltzman brain before this is complete.
19:16:30 <Alberth> do you ever fill such an amount of space?
19:18:41 <NGC3982> It have occured once or twice that a 2048^2 map feels "complete".
19:18:56 <NGC3982> As in the sence where "complete" means "I have no idea what's going on anymore."
19:28:03 <Alberth> I am mostly still struggling in understanding why people play at such large maps
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20:06:56 <Wolf01> I developed an addiction to gnomoria :( :) :(
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20:09:29 <andythenorth> I think there are tablets for it
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20:15:07 <Alberth> tablets with tiles, if you use windows 8
20:16:12 <Wolf01> I already try to play it on my tablet, but it has some strange behavior with touch, seem like everything needs to be hovered before accepting the click event
20:16:24 <Wolf01> OTTD instead is really well playable
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21:44:09 <V453000> is my understanding correct that if I set curve_speed_multiplier in a railtype to 2, I get normal rail (88kmh for CL1), 3 = monorail (132kmh for CL1), 4 = maglev (177 for CL1) ... does that mean 1 should make half the speed of normal rail -> 44 km/h for 1 half-tile long curves?
21:51:03 <V453000> I seem to be getting the same as monorail currently :s with 1
21:54:00 <V453000> ah 0 does the rail :( so I guess I cant have the base speeds
21:55:59 <V453000> being a multiplier I expected the 1 to multiply the base speeds ... guess not :(
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22:01:47 <V453000> anyone knowledgeful like Eddi|zuHause2 ? :)
22:06:31 <MNIM> though probably not in the area you need to know.
22:07:47 <V453000> I sort of smell that this wont be solvable anyway :(
22:08:05 <V453000> as 0 value gives a multiplier of 2, I dont think I can reach a multiplier of 1
22:14:49 * NGC3982 arcade machine is taking form.
22:22:03 <V453000> ah it just isnt written in NML documentation ... nfo says it
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