IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-12-03
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00:31:20 <drac_boy> so what doing flygon?
00:31:48 <Flygon> Had a chat to my friend about how animation works
00:32:02 <Flygon> And now I'm going to work on a non-animated image that you probably don't want to view :p
00:35:36 <drac_boy> you're a weird one? ;)
00:37:30 <Flygon> I'll take this to query
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02:46:52 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: Pikka was last seen in #openttd 28 weeks, 1 day, 20 hours, 12 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <Pikka> hello Alberth
02:53:47 <Supercheese> If I had to guess, I'd postulate the drama related to SAC & simuscape is related to his extended absence. Either that and/or he's busy IRL
03:52:45 <Supercheese> (requires registration)
03:52:58 <Supercheese> Relatively new forums operated by SAC
03:53:13 <Supercheese> it's... complicated
03:55:40 <Bad_Brett> i don't get it... is it another tt clone?
03:57:31 <Bad_Brett> it's some kind of... artist guild?
03:57:32 <Supercheese> From what I've gathered, SAC didn't like certain things about OTTD & TT-forums
03:57:53 <Supercheese> So apparently the solution was a new forum
03:58:37 <Supercheese> Now, you have to go there to download certain GRFs
03:58:51 <Supercheese> since the people at Simuscape generally don't like BaNaNaS for one reason or another and refuse to use it
03:59:32 <Bad_Brett> well that kind of sucks
03:59:56 <Supercheese> Well, it's better than not being able to get those GRFs at all
04:00:05 <Supercheese> but yeah, it's definitely not optimal
04:01:06 <Supercheese> Currently, the only major GRFs you have to go to Simuscape for are the Canadian set grfs
04:01:28 <Supercheese> There's some other minor grfs there too
04:01:51 <Supercheese> "Minor" and "major" being categories I completely made up ;)
04:04:04 <Bad_Brett> but i still don't get it
04:04:12 <Bad_Brett> what's wrong with BaNaNaS?
04:04:59 <Supercheese> That's very much a matter of opinion
04:05:13 <Supercheese> Me? I think it has only minor UI issues
04:05:45 <Supercheese> Others? Different opinions
04:08:20 <Bad_Brett> I haven't released anything yet so I guess I don't know too much about these issues
04:09:41 <Bad_Brett> so pikka is doing his updates there now?
04:10:06 <Supercheese> Pikka is sticking with Bananas and TT forums, when he posts updates (which is pretty infrequently)
04:12:56 <Bad_Brett> so, are you working on something right now?
04:13:06 <Supercheese> Star Trek Online :)
04:13:14 <Supercheese> not OTTD related, of course
04:13:29 <Supercheese> but I've had a request for above-ground versions of the subways
04:13:41 <Supercheese> so I'll probably work on that over Christmas break
04:35:43 <Supercheese> Anyway, gotta "livestream" Assassin's Creed 3 --- to my family in the other room!
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09:26:48 <morten> Hi all, anybody awake? :)
09:31:14 <morten> i do have a severe problem in openttd, an that is; i have three lcd-screens populated at one dualhead card and one singelhead card setup with xinerama. i'm running linux mint v 14. when i play openttd and try to move the board after some time (various) the board is thrown up left, and is very hard to get out of there. should i file a bug on this?
10:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> (that's like the 5th person now with scrolling issues)
10:45:34 <peter1138> xinerama still works? heh
10:48:26 <morten> don't the developers live on this irc?
10:51:55 <Eddi|zuHause> morten: there were several people now who have the problem that scrolling the map causes it to go to the edge immediately. the initial suspicion was that "gestures" or something interfere with the input OpenTTD thinks it's getting, but nobody has been able to confirm whether disabling gestures solves the problem
10:52:36 <Eddi|zuHause> morten: some on linux, some on win8
11:36:41 <morten> so how do we sort this out then? i have no gestures activated in my mint 14
11:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause> morten: we need someone who can reproduce the problem and add/compile some debug code to get to see what's actually going wrong
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12:28:00 <morten> Eddi|zuHause: what do i need to do?
12:28:20 <Eddi|zuHause> morten: how much knowledge of C++ do you have?
12:34:52 <morten> well i'm not a programmer, but i know how to compile
12:50:10 <morten> Eddi|zuHause: well i'm not a programmer, but i know how to compile
12:50:20 <Eddi|zuHause> morten: for starters, add printf-s to get some output to variables for mousemovement. e.g. in src/video/sdl_v.cpp:PollEvent add something like printf("mouse x: %d, y: %d\n", ev.motion.x, ev.motion.y)
12:51:55 <Eddi|zuHause> morten: and in src/window.cpp:HandleViewportScroll towards the end (before the return) something like printf("scroll x: %d, y: %d\n", delta.x, delta.y)
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13:33:30 <morten> Eddi|zuHause: i'll make it a shot :)
13:34:03 <Eddi|zuHause> (warning: output may be very long)
13:34:45 <morten> Eddi|zuHause: i would like to pass the information to the openttd programmers, is this the right channel to do so?
13:42:15 <Eddi|zuHause> "City of Düsseldorf pays marketing company 150.000€ for coming up with the logo ':D'"
13:53:44 <glx> could be more expensive :)
13:56:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i really hope some bureaucrat has enough brains to rule that it can't be registered as a brand...
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14:35:17 <NGC3982> Hey, let's make a geometric Open Transport Tycoon Universe
14:35:28 <NGC3982> With dyson spherical junctions
14:36:01 <NGC3982> Actually, it would be a cool concept to export to a space mining simulator or something
14:39:44 * Eddi|zuHause does not point to the OpenTTD+500 mess
14:40:51 <NGC3982> Un-googlable, it seems.
14:41:04 * Pinkbeast does not observe that he thinks the proponent of that idea didn't really help it
14:42:13 <NGC3982> I actually had a dream once, where OpenTTD was put trough different gaming stages, but also scales.
14:42:18 <NGC3982> Like in Spore, or something similar.
14:42:55 <NGC3982> Increasing to a arbitrary future, also increased the number of visible dimensions by one.
14:43:28 <Pinkbeast> ... although I think it was doomed from the get-go, I don't think the author being an "implement my brilliant ideas" odious creationist helped
14:43:37 <Eddi|zuHause> never played spore...
14:49:52 <NGC3982> "The setting is on Pluto's major moon, Charon"
14:50:16 <Pinkbeast> Although it might as well be Equestria for all the engineering background. :-)
14:50:28 <NGC3982> Doesn't this resemble the only-on-IRC-regurarly-talked-about Tron/Soviet scenarios?
14:51:02 <Pinkbeast> ... interestingly I notice Equestria has gone from horse-drawn wagonways to steam 4-4-0s in a year
14:55:27 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Well, i can't say i don't love the idea.
14:55:41 <NGC3982> But yes, "umm, not to put a dampener on your enthusiasum but what's the difference between this mod and a set of scenarios and gfx packs?" kind of says most of it.
14:56:11 <NGC3982> There are way to few GFX packs based scenarios out there.
14:56:55 <Pinkbeast> Also I think a like amount of effort put into "real" transport for OTTD would yield greater rewards, of interest to many more people
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17:45:32 <andythenorth> can we have piracy?
17:45:52 <andythenorth> easier for ships than trains tbh :P
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17:46:17 <andythenorth> buy a pirate ship, if it happens to get within 1 tile of another company's ship, there is a random chance of seizing their cargo
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18:07:09 <frosch123> andythenorth: be careful moby dick licks sinking pirates
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18:45:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24779 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/basque.txt (2012-12-03 18:45:05 UTC)
18:45:10 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:11 <DorpsGek> basque - 87 changes by lutxiketa
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20:17:10 <FLHerne> peter1138: If it's CDist :-)
20:18:53 <Wolf01> he's thinking about of banning me with a lot of pain
21:03:16 <DorpsGek> Commit by glx :: r24780 /trunk/src (window.cpp window_gui.h) (2012-12-03 21:03:13 UTC)
21:03:17 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5378]: passing an int to a function expecting a byte can have side effects when MSVC optimises it
21:09:17 <TinoDidriksen> ...duh? There is even a handy warning thrown for such code.
21:10:39 <frosch123> and i have never seen a warning that something is likely to break when optimising :p
21:11:34 <TinoDidriksen> MSVC at /W4 will warn about truncation when implicitly converting to a smaller type. g++ will also do so at -Wall -Wextra or whichever -Wconversion thingy...
21:12:25 <frosch123> maybe, but that does not say that it will corrupt the variable in the calling function
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21:13:09 * drac_boy pokes stimrol for some response? :) heh
21:13:44 <glx> and the corruption happens only for win32 release build, x64 has no problems
21:15:06 <TinoDidriksen> Btw, was there ever a new Mac maintainer or dev?
21:15:41 <glx> we used to have a Bjarni :)
21:15:46 <frosch123> multiple people have send patches for some bugs on fs
21:16:01 <frosch123> but the testers always said that the patches caused even worse bugs
21:17:34 <DorpsGek> __ln___: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 8 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 58 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
21:18:19 <__ln___> well there was egladil who did some work on the Mac port, at least.
21:19:19 <TinoDidriksen> Where do you get the nightly OS X builds from then?
21:19:46 <glx> we build them on the server
21:19:54 <frosch123> tb built some cross compiler
21:20:01 <__ln___> there's an electric Bjarni compiling them every night
21:20:02 <frosch123> though it officially only builds 10.4 binaries
21:20:47 <Rubidium> it definitely is a really ancient compiler
21:22:37 <andythenorth> I should test FS patches for OS X :(
21:22:38 <TinoDidriksen> Well, I have a Mac Mini server with OS X 10.7.5 and latest XCode with clang++. If the code builds, I can set that up to do nightlies.
21:22:40 <andythenorth> when I have some time
21:23:09 <andythenorth> WHEN WILL THERE EVER BE ENOUGH TIME?
21:24:00 <glx> IIRC some openttd features are still "to be coded" for OSX
21:24:01 <Rubidium> TinoDidriksen: the past has proven that such remote builds are too unreliable
21:24:45 <Rubidium> also... the building of OS X binaries is not the problem. The problem is basically writing a complete new backend for every two releases
21:25:05 <SpComb> andythenorth: once you stop doing anything :)
21:25:48 <andythenorth> omg what a complete twat
21:26:05 * andythenorth is reading the 'please centralise all files on the forum, but only the ones I want to find' post
21:26:19 <andythenorth> that's basically a 'please just find what I am looking for for me' wish list
21:26:38 <andythenorth> "I have used the search button, but it returns me a lot of information"
21:26:43 <andythenorth> "What I wanted was to download the files that I want"
21:27:24 <frosch123> andythenorth: send him to the nineties, welcome yahoo :)
21:27:33 <andythenorth> and it's a 3 year old gravedig too
21:27:45 <andythenorth> someone is wrong on the internet
21:27:51 <andythenorth> I must stay up all night castigating them
21:28:06 * andythenorth goes to another place
21:28:08 <frosch123> can't you automate that?
21:28:22 <andythenorth> no-one is ever wrong on my facebook
21:28:25 <FLHerne> What would be nice would be a list of all patch-files submitted to the dev forum
21:28:32 <frosch123> can your todlers already participate on forum level?
21:28:34 <andythenorth> FLHerne: make one
21:28:43 <Rubidium> FLHerne: and what would that show you?
21:28:50 <andythenorth> frosch123: they can whine, fight, and make stupid, unachieveable requests
21:28:55 <frosch123> FLHerne: there are at least 2 of those lists :p
21:29:05 <Rubidium> an enormous list of mostly duplicate patches
21:29:05 <andythenorth> FLHerne: clearly what is needed is a list of lists
21:29:14 <andythenorth> a list aggregator, if you will
21:29:15 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Would be much easier with access to the forum DB, surely?
21:29:25 <andythenorth> you have access to the forum DB
21:29:29 <FLHerne> andythenorth: For finding patches when I want to patch things
21:29:36 <andythenorth> you just have to use this thing called 'the http interface'
21:29:50 <andythenorth> although it is a PHP app, so with work, you can probably root it
21:29:58 <andythenorth> or at least get read access to mysql
21:30:17 <FLHerne> andythenorth: That would probably lead to unwanted DOSing :P
21:31:27 <andythenorth> FLHerne: you know that forum attachments have numeric UIDs which (appear to me) to simply increment?
21:31:40 <andythenorth> so you could just enumerate them all and pipe the urls to curl
21:31:53 <andythenorth> then read the contents to see if it's a patch file
21:32:03 <andythenorth> or*dge might of course block you
21:32:49 <andythenorth> actually some people are wrong; they post those stupid copyright notices
21:32:53 <FLHerne> andythenorth: That was what I was thinking of when I said 'list of all patch-files uploaded' and 'unwanted DOS' respectively :P
21:32:58 <andythenorth> but I think satire has put an end to that
21:33:18 <andythenorth> FLHerne: if you only do it once, it's probably no more DOS than google crawler coming by
21:33:33 <andythenorth> you're going to throttle your requests, right?
21:33:37 <FLHerne> The other things rely on people actually doing stuff about it, which in particular doesn't seem to happen when patches are updated by third-parties
21:33:39 <andythenorth> not make 300 at once
21:33:55 <andythenorth> FLHerne: what will you name your service?
21:34:10 <FLHerne> andythenorth: That would require me to be paying attention, rather than half-asleep and caffeine-intoxicated :P
21:34:25 <Rubidium> but the forum has no patches or diffs
21:34:28 <andythenorth> ach, this is like 4 lines of shell or something
21:34:46 <Rubidium> site:www.tt-forums.net filetype:patch yields nothing in google
21:35:01 <FLHerne> Rubidium: That seems unlikely :P
21:35:03 <andythenorth> file.php?blah :P
21:35:48 <andythenorth> maybe I should turn the rest of the internet off
21:35:52 <Rubidium> on the other hand it yields a mere 1320 results for bugs.openttd.org
21:35:53 <andythenorth> and only go in the safe bit
21:36:51 * Superuser doesn't like facebook, but can only use Facebook :(
21:37:02 <frosch123> Rubidium: forums always failed with mimetypes
21:37:47 <frosch123> that's the main reason i have that ff plugin to overwrite whatever mimetype is send by the server :p
21:40:01 <Superuser> o shit wrong channel
21:41:07 * frosch123 wouldn't have noticed
21:42:45 <__ln___> why not have Apple assign a development team for OpenTTD's Mac port? clearly the availability of OTTD is essential for the success of their sales.
21:44:04 <andythenorth> does OTTD sell more phones?
21:44:16 <andythenorth> it is tedious that my computer is made by a phone company
21:44:28 <andythenorth> it's like buying a Nokia laptop
21:45:03 <andythenorth> Apple keep gamely trying to persuade people that they are still in the computer business
21:45:06 <SpComb> or like buying a Nokia phone
21:45:28 <andythenorth> eventually microsoft will buy apple
21:46:24 <SpComb> apple/microsoft would make a pretty good consumer/business brand combo though
21:47:06 <Superuser> it would hurt both brands
21:47:18 <Superuser> Microsoft just isn't a cool company
21:47:25 <Superuser> and Apple is not taken seriously in business
21:47:45 <SpComb> but if they had all the interop figured out
21:47:53 <andythenorth> why would business take a phone company seriously?
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21:48:24 <SpComb> a two-faced phone with an iPhone on one side for personal use, and a Windows phone on the other side for business use
21:48:43 <frosch123> the marketing guys/gals at my company do all their presentations with apple stuff
21:50:08 <Superuser> IT will never accept apple, it's a pain in the ass to deploy software across Apple PCs
21:53:17 <heffer> also Apple is insecure
21:53:37 <frosch123> yeah, that's the irony :p
21:53:42 <heffer> breaks end to end encryption when forwarding encrypted mails on an Exchange infrastructure
21:54:11 <SpComb> that's one high-quality beard
21:54:14 <heffer> as soon as you forward the mail it is decrypted on the server and forwarded in clear
21:54:21 <frosch123> Superuser: eddi might be closest to that
21:54:34 <Superuser> that's one hell of a creepy image, more like :)
21:55:12 <SpComb> that shirt should be a threewolfmoon shirt
21:58:11 <DorpsGek> Commit by glx :: r24780 /trunk/src (window.cpp window_gui.h) (2012-12-03 21:03:13 UTC)
21:58:13 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5378]: passing an int to a function expecting a byte can have side effects when MSVC optimises it
21:58:53 <frosch123> we tries the new timemachine patche
21:59:11 <frosch123> it's based on the daylength patch, but improved
21:59:33 <DorpsGek> Commit by glx :: r24780 /trunk/src (window.cpp window_gui.h) (2012-12-03 21:03:13 UTC)
21:59:34 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5378]: passing an int to a function expecting a byte can have side effects when MSVC optimises it
22:00:07 <TrueBrain> sry for spam, had to test stuff :P
22:00:27 <andythenorth> that photo looks like my office
22:00:41 <andythenorth> people I work with
22:01:08 <heffer> I have people work for me
22:01:16 <heffer> which is what I prefer
22:01:43 <heffer> nah, just joking. i'm just an apprentice. but a visionary, too
22:02:17 <frosch123> andy always tries to recruit the whole channel :)
22:02:58 <heffer> well he's not trying hard enough right now
22:03:38 <heffer> which, this time, isn't a joke btw
22:04:06 * Rubidium wonders when recruiting was a joke
22:04:24 <heffer> well we do have fun at work most of the time :D
22:05:00 <Rubidium> ... on how stupid the recruitees are I reckon ;)
22:05:33 <Eddi|zuHause> of the "go fetch the copper magnet" kind? :)
22:06:07 <heffer> :P well I do what is called "Employer Branding" so it's a mix of recruiting and marketing
22:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so you go around asking people "do you want to work for us?"
22:06:46 <frosch123> my job interview as 98% marketing :)
22:07:01 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the kind that is 'familiar with GIS implementations' and then does not even know how to calculate the distance between two points
22:07:31 <heffer> Eddi|zuHause: no i do facebook, youtube, twitter, mobile apps
22:07:44 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> can we have piracy? <-- may be useful for Bad_Bretts wildwest mod :)
22:07:49 <Rubidium> not even when you explain Pythagoras' equation
22:08:08 <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r24781 trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp (2012-12-03 22:08:00 UTC)
22:08:09 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r24762): [Win32] MinGW compiler warning.
22:08:12 <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r24782 trunk/src/stdafx.h (2012-12-03 22:08:03 UTC)
22:08:13 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: [Win32] Disable MSVC warning about using 'this' in a base member initializer list as we don't use it in any problematic way.
22:08:20 <Rubidium> andythenorth: on some random counter empty the whole cargo hold of a ship ;)
22:08:44 <andythenorth> I am looking for developers with 7 years experience of node.js
22:08:57 <andythenorth> and at least 5 years of Twitter Bootstrap
22:09:11 <andythenorth> and I would also like a unicorn
22:09:25 <frosch123> ah, i see, ponies are no longer good enough :p
22:09:42 <frosch123> now andy wants unicorns
22:09:45 <andythenorth> Rubidium: piracy = new disaster? :P
22:09:49 <Rubidium> andythenorth: it just depends on your definition of year
22:09:57 <andythenorth> if uniconrs are available, I would like mine in blue please
22:10:09 <frosch123> what is the effect of piracy? does it take all cargo, or only the one that fits into the pirate ship?
22:10:14 <frosch123> or does it take over the ship?
22:10:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: sorry, unicorns are only available in pink
22:11:02 <andythenorth> I don't want one in that case
22:11:16 <frosch123> it's invisible though
22:11:46 <andythenorth> but in my heart, I'll know the difference
22:12:03 <andythenorth> it's not the unicorn I am seeking so desperately
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22:13:51 <Rubidium> after all.. on one day you can be in multiple years, e.g. 6761, 2012, 2011, 4708, 4648, 4709, 1433, and many more
22:15:21 <heffer> i bought a chinese router from dx.com the other day and tried porting openwrt to it
22:15:29 <heffer> great fun everyone should try
22:15:39 <frosch123> hmmm... hewbrew, gregorian, julian, ?, ?, ?, arabic
22:15:50 <frosch123> i guess there is some mayan and chinese involved
22:16:10 <frosch123> that's what i meant with arabic
22:17:23 <Rubidium> the first is Assyrian, the three question marks are different chinese ones
22:17:38 <frosch123> hewbrew is around 5773
22:19:53 <Rubidium> but yes... the world is going to end the 21nd
22:20:04 <Rubidium> both the Mayans and Nostradamus said so ;)
22:20:23 <frosch123> did nostradamus know the mayans?
22:21:39 <frosch123> hmm, looks i was lucky up to now to have missed that
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