IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-11-12
            
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01:28:59 <drac_boy> hi
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01:40:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "23. September 1926 • Amtlich wird gemeldet: Mit dem Jnkrafttreten des nächstjährigen Sommerfahrplans werden im inneren und im äußeren Dienstverkehr bei der Deutschen Reichspost und der Deutschen Reichsbahn die Stunden –um Mitternacht beginnend– von 1 bis 24 bezeichnet werden, wie es bereits in fast allen Ländern des europäischen Festlandes geschieht."
01:42:00 <Elukka> "Arabic - detected"
01:42:05 <Elukka> no, google, pretty sure that's not arabic...
01:43:31 <drac_boy> heh
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01:57:29 <drac_boy> :p
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02:04:35 <drac_boy> heh heh
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02:29:50 * Flygon prods drac_boy
02:29:54 <Flygon> Oh
02:29:56 <Flygon> He's not here
02:30:27 * drac_boy pokes flygon back
02:30:31 <drac_boy> :)
02:30:40 <Flygon> Oh
02:30:41 <Flygon> Derp
02:30:42 <drac_boy> how're you mr.brokenmodem?
02:30:44 <drac_boy> ;)
02:30:51 <Flygon> It's a shaky wireless connection
02:30:53 <Flygon> There's a brick wall
02:33:09 <drac_boy> what doing now anyway?
02:47:20 <Flygon> Not much
02:47:25 <Flygon> Will have to do page 7 today
02:47:41 <Flygon> Then find out when I do page 1...
02:47:52 <drac_boy> heh :p
02:47:58 <Flygon> I get the feeling he's going to have me on Spin Cycle @_@
02:48:52 <drac_boy> :)
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07:26:12 <Terkhen> good morning
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07:55:05 <NGC3982> Morning
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08:11:47 <Supercheese> Good night
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09:51:50 <JVassie> Anyone happen to have a link for the german TT forums please?
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09:58:08 <peter1138> tt-ms.de
10:01:53 <planetmaker> good day
10:04:17 <NGC3982> Morning, PM, and Peter.
10:06:30 <Ammler> guete Morge :-)
10:06:52 <Ammler> he, what's with the German forum again?
10:07:22 <NGC3982> Works around here.
10:07:30 <peter1138> Well, there's a big problem with them. They're all in German.
10:07:34 <NGC3982> If it's http://www.tt-ms.de/home/ you are refering too.
10:07:36 <planetmaker> @ports
10:07:36 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
10:07:39 <NGC3982> peter1138: ;)
10:11:05 <Ammler> afaik, the admin of tt-ms is swiss
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11:59:03 <frosch123> hmm, someone remembers the old days when cargo was delivered to stations before a vehicle arrived at them?
11:59:19 <frosch123> is it true, that the station rating did not change?
11:59:33 <frosch123> but stayed at the inital value until a vehicle arrived
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12:02:32 <NGC3982> I recall something like that, yes.
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12:06:03 <frosch123> nope, not true
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12:17:35 <Eddi|zuHause> once upon a time transfer stations did not get a rating
12:18:44 <NGC3982> frosch123: ?
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14:18:45 <dihedral> oi
14:25:29 <NGC3982> I'm used to using irc with Irssi, on a shell.
14:25:46 <NGC3982> Controlling it with putty, using tab to auto-complete stuff is great when gotten used to.
14:26:07 <NGC3982> And i was thinking while configuring my server with rcon, would auto-complete be possible?
14:26:15 <NGC3982> It feels like a good idea, initially.
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14:28:39 <frosch123> i think in some places there is implicit autocompletion
14:28:40 <Eddi|zuHause> afair there's already autocomplete for town names and player names
14:28:57 <frosch123> don't confuse chat and console :p
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14:29:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i mean there is already some infrastructure there, which may be extended upon
14:29:40 <NGC3982> Ah, i see.
14:30:04 <frosch123> anyway, iirc some stuff autocompletes if it unique
14:30:18 <NGC3982> When logging on as a player, do i download the cfg from the server?
14:30:20 <frosch123> set and list_settings and stuff
14:30:24 <frosch123> though i am not sure :p
14:31:10 <frosch123> NGC3982: some settings are tied to the savegame (i.e. the server), some to the client, some to the company (depending on whether you join or start new)
14:31:26 <frosch123> if you are using a recent version the adv. settings dialog displays for each setting what type it is
14:32:11 <frosch123> (recent might mean "not stable release")
14:32:40 <NGC3982> Ok.
14:46:07 <Ammler> you should also check the just introduced admin interface :-P
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14:48:28 <Ammler> of course you don't download the cfg, it might have sensitive data on it
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14:58:16 <NGC3982> How do i take part of the settings, then?
15:01:07 <NGC3982> Speaking of
15:01:17 <NGC3982> No, not speaking at all.
15:01:18 <NGC3982> Bbl.
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15:57:30 <drac_boy> hi
15:57:46 <andythenorth> ho
15:57:52 <drac_boy> anyone around for some random train discussions? :p
15:58:01 <drac_boy> oh hi andythenorth-the-crazy-coder
15:58:03 <drac_boy> heh heh
15:59:43 <V453000> I can give you some random train discussion but I am afraid you will not like it :(
16:00:14 <Eddi|zuHause> [23:24:08] <Eddi|zuHause> (answer to andy:) towns store all "town effect" cargos, other storage is probably not sensible
16:01:25 <Eddi|zuHause> gtg, though
16:01:56 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/92jDG.png
16:02:07 <NGC3982> This is a good day.
16:03:15 <andythenorth> NGC3982: you need to go more meta
16:03:33 <andythenorth> make a rollercoaster industry *inside* OpenTTD
16:03:40 <andythenorth> which contains a full running RCT game
16:03:44 <Eddi|zuHause> someone tried that already
16:03:52 <drac_boy> V453000 well...give it a go :P
16:04:44 <V453000> my current train issue is whether I want to autoreplace 3000 asiastars to a different engine, and I am thinking of options how
16:05:23 <andythenorth> so...looks like FIRS economies are going to produce a nice list of ponies and wishful thinking
16:05:25 <drac_boy> V453000 did asiastars even exist anywhere? :)
16:05:42 <V453000> does that matter?
16:05:58 <andythenorth> on a cosmic timescale, no
16:06:02 <andythenorth> on a nerd timescale, maybe
16:06:24 <V453000> I wasnt responding to you andy ... I havent seen economies yet :) enough to talk about it, at least
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16:06:56 <andythenorth> I meant the asiastars :P
16:08:52 * drac_boy would had rather ordered/refurbished some BR.103's by then instead ;)
16:12:38 <NGC3982> andythenorth: My god.
16:12:48 <NGC3982> < Eddi|zuHause> someone tried that already
16:12:56 * NGC3982 gets the chills.
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17:48:10 <andythenorth> la la la
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18:01:50 <V453000> frosch123: I cant even talk there :D
18:02:07 <frosch123> :)
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18:09:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24703 /trunk/src (station_cmd.cpp station_gui.cpp) (2012-11-12 18:09:33 UTC)
18:09:40 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Disallow closing oilrig airports in SE.
18:10:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24704 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2012-11-12 18:10:02 UTC)
18:10:10 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: No need to initialise stuff twice.
18:10:27 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24705 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2012-11-12 18:10:21 UTC)
18:10:28 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Station rating might consider very old vehicles very young.
18:10:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24706 trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp (2012-11-12 18:10:42 UTC)
18:10:49 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r10981): [NewGRF] Station var 48 should report acceptance, not supply.
18:11:10 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24707 trunk/src/station_base.h (2012-11-12 18:11:05 UTC)
18:11:11 <DorpsGek> -Doc: Improve description of GoodsEntryStatus flags.
18:11:33 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24708 /trunk/src (station_base.h station_cmd.cpp) (2012-11-12 18:11:26 UTC)
18:11:34 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Check magic values of GoodsEntry::last_speed only via wrapper function.
18:11:52 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24709 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2012-11-12 18:11:46 UTC)
18:11:53 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Simplify some code.
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18:18:34 <Rait> Hello
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18:18:46 <Rait> where can i download symbols for releases?
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18:24:17 <frosch123> we don't have bundles for debug symbols
18:25:40 <Rait> well, that sucks. i would've taken a look at win 8 fullscreen problem, but no chance then
18:26:11 <frosch123> ah, for msvc there are the files somewhere
18:26:13 <frosch123> glx might know
18:26:38 <glx> they are on binaries
18:27:13 <frosch123> http://ftp.snt.utwente.nl/pub/games/openttd/binaries/releases/1.2.3/index.html <- ah, indeed, there are pdb files
18:27:53 <glx> also available for nightlies
18:28:21 <Rait> cool, thanks
18:45:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24710 trunk/src/lang/indonesian.txt (2012-11-12 18:45:07 UTC)
18:45:16 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:17 <DorpsGek> indonesian - 42 changes by adjayanto
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19:23:01 <maan> hello again - is this a channel for support?
19:23:19 <frosch123> this is the general channel for everythin
19:23:52 <andythenorth> we should get ZenDesk for support o_O
19:24:02 <andythenorth> maybe we can pay someone to do it :P
19:24:34 <frosch123> andythenorth: we should do that for osx support :p
19:24:51 <andythenorth> there's OS X support? :o
19:25:10 <frosch123> yup, provided by andy
19:25:14 <frosch123> do you know him?
19:25:27 <maan> hi guys - only found out about OpenTTD yesterday and wow am impressed
19:25:48 <maan> i been playing it all day lol
19:26:00 <FLHerne> It does that to you :-/
19:26:03 <frosch123> still impressed? or already depressed? :p
19:26:06 <maan> lol
19:26:18 <FLHerne> Ruined my productivity for the last two years now :-(
19:26:33 <maan> i must admit i been going round in circles but hey thats the fun of it
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19:28:12 <maan> i got a prob that i can't seem to solve involving broken trucks, can't figure out how to replace one
19:28:41 <maan> such a basic question for you guys lol
19:29:00 <Yexo> send it to a depot, click clone, click original vehicle, sell original vehicle, start new vehicle
19:29:26 <Alberth> when you play with breakdowns, make sure there are enough depots around for servicing
19:29:27 <maan> see told ya it was an easy one for you guru's lol
19:29:56 <Kylie> hi maan
19:30:16 <maan> hi kylie
19:30:17 <Kylie> maan: also there ius auto replaace if, uh
19:30:32 <Alberth> when you get tired of doing what Yexo suggest, read about autorenew and autoreplace
19:30:46 <maan> i did look at thta but wasn't sure it was working lol
19:30:47 <Kylie> maan: if you need to upgrade or downgrade capacity or use different vehicles
19:31:05 <Kylie> maan: there is a caevat here tho
19:31:41 <maan> now yr getting too technical kylie lol
19:32:05 <Kylie> maan: a vehicle with a given name cannot be autoreplaced witth thee same vehicle
19:32:11 <FLHerne> maan: Autorenew replaces vehicles with new vehicles of the same type as they reach their maximum recommended age, Autoreplace replaces vehicles immediately with vehicles of a different type :-)
19:32:24 <Kylie> maan: ^^^^^
19:32:40 <maan> nice tips there thanks huys
19:32:48 <maan> guys*
19:33:19 <FLHerne> Also, look at the screenshots forum. It has interesting examples of ways you can build stuff
19:33:37 <FLHerne> Usually with trains, because trains are fun :P
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19:34:13 <maan> yeah got scrnshots coming outta my eyes now lol
19:34:32 <Zuu> Or start some AIs and have an example game played just for you :-)
19:34:55 <FLHerne> Zuu: That relies on the AI not behaving like an idiot, like it normally does :P
19:35:08 * FLHerne hasn't found an AI that's fun to play against yet :-(
19:35:09 <maan> only been using trucks for short distance around the cities and trains for longer ones
19:35:45 <Zuu> I have had fun playing against my own AI for more than once.
19:35:59 <Kylie> maan: generally a good policy
19:36:11 <maan> omg you guys are coders too
19:36:13 <Kylie> quck question for yall
19:36:20 <Kylie> quick*
19:36:31 <Zuu> Also, while I'm biased, I don't think all AIs behave like idiots.
19:36:45 <maan> lol
19:36:58 <FLHerne> Zuu: AIAI is better than the rest, but not by enough :P
19:37:01 <Kylie> i've noticed trucks/buses have a high running cost and that presents itself in high losses
19:37:18 <FLHerne> There's a difference between 'profitable' and 'not an idiot' ;-)
19:37:46 <Kylie> what ca n be done to mitigate these high losses?
19:38:01 <maan> funny but i been earning quite nicely from buses/trucks
19:38:10 <frosch123> if it is only busses/trucks, you might want to use a basecost grf
19:38:11 <FLHerne> Kylie: What sort of situation are you using them in?
19:38:20 <Yexo> Kylie: make sure they have higher profits?
19:38:25 <Kylie> FLHerne: im just talking generally
19:38:42 <Yexo> it really depends on the newgrf you use for them what the runnings costs are
19:38:46 <Kylie> but i know that passenger delivery creates losses
19:39:11 <FLHerne> Kylie: Buses seem not to cause trouble for anyone else, so you must be doing something wrong :D
19:39:29 <Yexo> s/wrong/different/
19:39:47 <Kylie> wekll, what's the /ideal/ profitable situaation for passenger delivery with buses ?
19:39:52 <FLHerne> Yexo: If 'Different' leads to 'negative profit', it's wrong :P
19:39:53 <NGC3982> For pete sake
19:40:03 <Kylie> emphasis on iddeal
19:40:13 <maan> i got 10 buses/trucks and earning around 27k
19:40:18 <Yexo> Kylie: that question is way too general, even though it might not look like it, there are a lot of settings that influence that, not in the least which NewGRFs you are using
19:40:19 <NGC3982> What use do a 891 letter long URL have in the content download if i can't click it.
19:40:58 <frosch123> there is a "website" button at the bottom
19:41:05 <Kylie> well i dont have a game up here so :p
19:41:22 <Yexo> ideal situation is a newgrf which settings running cost to 0, increase payment for passengers a lot, increases passenger productino and also max cargo load of road vehicles
19:41:23 <FLHerne> Kylie: Ideal for any mode of transport is running fully loaded from one corner of the map to the other, fully loaded, then unloading, reloading, and going back the other way ;-)
19:41:38 <Kylie> FLHerne: that far?
19:41:38 <FLHerne> Plus what Yexo said, of course
19:42:43 <Kylie> Yexo: names of newgrf pls?
19:43:01 <FLHerne> Kylie: In general, further is better. Payment is based on cargo/speed, so the further you go, the higher the average speed (less accelerating) and the further the distance :-)
19:43:02 <Yexo> Kylie: that was a hypothetical example
19:43:22 <Yexo> a basecost newgrf can be used to change running cost, different town sets have different passenger production rates
19:43:40 <Alberth> you don't need increased pax production, they come with enough people already :p
19:43:45 <Kylie> FLHerne: ah makes sense
19:43:48 <Kylie> pax = ?
19:43:53 <Alberth> passengers
19:43:54 <FLHerne> Of course, that isn't a very good place to use buses, because trains or planes are far more profitable over such distances :P
19:44:24 <Kylie> FLHerne: true
19:47:09 <NGC3982> FLHerne: Oh!
19:47:25 <NGC3982> FLHerne: My irritation was absurdly missplaced.
19:48:04 <Kylie> FLHerne: i've had to replace buses with streetcars in densely populated areas
19:48:13 <maan> its fun learning by yr mistakes tho lol
19:49:20 <maan> sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees so it's nice to get fresh eyes on a problem and for that I thank you for yr suggestions guys
19:49:36 <maan> it worked too lol
19:49:46 <frosch123> maan: just press ctrl+x and set trees to invisible :p
19:50:08 <maan> i was speaking figuratively there lol
19:50:34 <Kylie> ive done caalculations and the amount of buses to satisfy the capacity in densely populated areas gets too high so yeah
19:51:05 <frosch123> usually trams have higher capacity
19:51:20 <Kylie> yes thats why i've replaced wiith trams :p
19:51:47 <frosch123> streetcars are trams?
19:51:55 <maan> i not got that far yet so more fun to come
19:52:08 <frosch123> weird AE :p
19:52:19 <Kylie> streetcar = tram frosch123
19:52:58 <frosch123> i thought the streetcar newgrf provides personal cars like taxis etc.
19:53:01 <Yexo> frosch123: us english vs british english :)
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20:00:59 <frosch123> hmm, what application to use for rss feeds?
20:01:08 <frosch123> i cannot find an option in evolution
20:01:18 <frosch123> and firefox does not notify me about new messages
20:02:19 <Alberth> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/bamboo-feed-reader/?src=api ??
20:02:50 <andythenorth> use your mail client?
20:02:53 <Ammler> frosch123: hehe, poor gnome user has to search for tools like windows :-)
20:03:45 <frosch123> Ammler: you mean i shall use the gnome default one?
20:03:58 <frosch123> "liferea" - never heard about it :p
20:12:32 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24711 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2012-11-12 20:12:26 UTC)
20:12:33 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r10354): Check whether to not display a ^ loading indicator at drop stations only worked if there was no other vehicle unloading for 255 ticks.
20:12:51 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24712 trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp (2012-11-12 20:12:45 UTC)
20:12:52 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5303]: [NewGRF] Station variables 61 and 62 returned incorrect values, if no vehicle ever tried loading.
20:13:08 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24713 /trunk/src (roadveh_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp) (2012-11-12 20:13:02 UTC)
20:13:09 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5262]: [NewGRF] Tolerate old NewGRFs returning invalid values via CB 11.
20:13:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24714 /trunk/src (newgrf_station.cpp station_cmd.cpp) (2012-11-12 20:13:17 UTC)
20:13:23 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5337]: [NewGRF] Draw default foundations if resolving of custom station foundation sprites fails.
20:13:41 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24715 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2012-11-12 20:13:34 UTC)
20:13:42 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5335]: [NewGRF] Allow stations to draw snow/desert aware ground sprites with railtype overlays.
20:13:57 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24716 trunk/src/openttd.cpp (2012-11-12 20:13:51 UTC)
20:13:58 <DorpsGek> -Feature(ette): Reset engine pool when starting a scenario.
20:14:13 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24717 trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp (2012-11-12 20:14:08 UTC)
20:14:14 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5139]: When starting a scenario apply the local company settings to the new company.
20:14:20 <Alberth> Akregator seems to allow notifications
20:14:22 <FLHerne> frosch123: Akregator is nice. Also part of Kontact, so I can deal with mail and calendars at the same time :-)
20:14:38 <frosch123> i use the gnome default one for now
20:14:38 <FLHerne> Alberth: Oi! I was saying that! :D
20:15:06 * andythenorth thinks rss is like email, so a mail client makes sense :P
20:15:19 <FLHerne> frosch123: You should get KDE instead and use the defaults for that :P
20:15:24 <Alberth> irc is an asynchronous system :)
20:15:31 <frosch123> FLHerne: i left kde with version 4
20:15:39 <frosch123> i might retry it with gnome 3 :p
20:15:47 <FLHerne> frosch123: They fixed it. 4.9 is great :-)
20:16:01 <FLHerne> I remember 4.0, that was indeed the buggiest POC ever
20:16:20 <Alberth> FLHerne: you did not try Gnome 3 then :)
20:16:34 <Alberth> quite unusable :)
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20:16:46 <frosch123> FLHerne: 4.3 was the only one i tried
20:17:14 <FLHerne> Alberth: I gave it a quick try, the WM didn't crash every time I resized a window :P
20:17:19 <frosch123> then i switched to xfce. when i switched to debian, i just used the default gnome
20:17:50 <frosch123> but when i update debian somewhen, i might check something else, since the debian preview i have in a vm has a crappy gnome
20:17:52 <Alberth> gnome2 is sane enough to use :)
20:17:55 <FLHerne> frosch123: 4.4 was where it started to improve significantly, by 4.6 they had it almost nailed :-)
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20:18:53 <FLHerne> 4.7-4.9 has been mostly minor stuff, but covered all the niggly 'why does it behave like that?' issues I had before
20:26:36 <frosch123> well, i have learned to try new releases and wms only in a vm first :p
20:31:58 <Rait> anyone tried compiling with VS2012?
20:32:45 * Rubidium remembers failing in a pre-beta version
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20:33:21 <Rait> yeah, it whines about macro redefinition
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20:39:18 <Yexo> Rait: could you copy/paste the exact error to http://paste.openttdcoop.org/ ?
20:39:41 <Rait> error VS gives me?
20:39:59 <Yexo> yes
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20:43:52 <frosch123> yay, my TODO bookmarks fit on one page again!
20:45:34 <FLHerne> My one Todo is: Update list of things to do :D
20:46:11 <frosch123> are you not doing that during your sleep?
20:46:29 <Rait> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1922/
20:46:52 <FLHerne> frosch123: Yes, but then I never get round to typing it into my computer :P
20:48:53 <frosch123> Rait: so it fails to give a proper error location? :p
20:49:03 <Rait> seems so
20:49:04 <frosch123> anyway, does it work if you comment stdafx.h:187 ?
20:49:26 <Alberth> nice error :p
20:49:52 <Rait> it's already commented out
20:50:04 <Yexo> Rait: does it compile with http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/msvc2012.diff ?
20:50:05 <Rait> by me that is
20:50:20 <Yexo> nvm, that's what frosch123 already suggested :p
20:50:41 <frosch123> did you check that "xkeycheck.h" file?
20:50:52 <frosch123> i have no idea what that refers to
20:51:16 <Yexo> #pragma warning(enable: 4005) <- perhaps that helps?
20:51:20 <Rait> yeah, it basically disallows any overrides of c++ keywords and throws errors if it finds one
20:51:29 <Rait> Yexo, this goes where?
20:51:37 <Yexo> somewhere in stdafx.h
20:51:41 <Yexo> near the top
20:54:10 <Rubidium> is inline a c++ keyword then?
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20:54:48 <Rubidium> ah yes... it seems to be
20:54:50 <frosch123> it is listed in 2.11 "keywords"
20:55:25 <Rubidium> ohoh... that's going to yield a mess
20:55:59 <Yexo> s/inline/FORCEINLINE/ in all header files?
20:56:31 <Alberth> didn't we remove all the incline stuff recently?
20:56:36 <Alberth> -c
20:56:41 <Yexo> apparently, I can't find it anymore
20:56:54 <Rubidium> exactly that :(
20:57:22 <Rait> Yexo after the fix:
20:57:22 <Rait> Warning 2 warning C4615: #pragma warning : unknown user warning type (..\src\core\alloc_func.cpp) e:\dl\openttd-1.2.3-source\openttd-1.2.3\src\stdafx.h 12 1 strgen
20:57:22 <Rait> repeated by several hundred copys. i guess efery file compiling touches
20:57:43 <Rait> some errors too
20:57:58 <Yexo> Rait: so it's impossible to disable that warning
20:58:02 <frosch123> r23640 removed the FORCEINLINE
20:58:09 <Yexo> commenting out the #define inline __forceinline line should work though
20:58:10 <frosch123> before that we defined inline to _inline
20:59:05 <Yexo> question is: do we really need __forceinline everywhere?
20:59:52 <frosch123> only a profile run can answer :)
21:00:48 <Rubidium> IIRC it was significant enough for the pathfinder
21:01:10 <frosch123> well, but also with lto? :p
21:01:17 <Rubidium> and I wonder whether the (map) accessors and stuff are considered easy enough by the compiler to inline them
21:01:26 <Rubidium> frosch123: lto isn't really used yet
21:01:34 <Rubidium> not sure whether it actually reliably works yet
21:01:40 <Yexo> if the map accessors are not automatically inlined msvc is really braindead
21:01:43 <frosch123> we are talking about msvc
21:01:46 <Yexo> I'd be really surprised if they are not btw
21:02:38 <Rubidium> I'd first check *if* MSVC 2012 can build proper binaries and then start thinking about profiling
21:03:01 <Rubidium> I seem to remember you being only able to build app store apps with it (or with the free version at least)
21:03:09 <Yexo> that got reverted
21:03:17 <Rubidium> sissies
21:03:42 <Yexo> there is now an "express for windows 8" and an "express for windows desktop"
21:06:05 <SmatZ> compiling openttd with -Winline gives tons of "inlining failed" messages
21:06:18 <frosch123> "failed"?
21:06:25 <frosch123> how can it fail?
21:06:36 <Rubidium> recursion
21:06:42 <SmatZ> frosch123: gcc decided not to inline the call :P
21:06:44 <frosch123> oh, haha :p
21:06:44 <Yexo> or function being to big to inline
21:06:52 <SmatZ> it doesn't even need to be "uninlinable"
21:07:00 <SmatZ> warning: inlining failed in call to ‘T Align(T, uint) [with T = unsigned int; uint = unsigned int]’: call is unlikely and code size would grow [-Winline]
21:07:17 <SmatZ> warning: inlining failed in call to ‘NWID* Window::GetWidget(uint) [with NWID = NWidgetCore; uint = unsigned int]’: call is unlikely and code size would grow [-Winline]
21:07:31 <SmatZ> I think these two are mentioned the most often
21:07:36 <frosch123> well, ok, if it calls that "failed" :)
21:07:50 <Rubidium> GetWidget being called unlikely?
21:08:45 <Yexo> splitting inline to "inline" and "FORCEINLINE" has the advantage we could use __attribute__((always_inline)) for gcc
21:11:45 <Alberth> compared with path finding, GetWidget is unlikely :)
21:12:49 <Yexo> it's per call to GetWidget
21:13:06 <Yexo> first time it warns for me it from ai_gui.cpp:113, that call is certainly unlikely
21:17:30 <SmatZ> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/Winline_sort.txt many warnings :)
21:17:51 <SmatZ> 9321 lines..
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21:20:08 <SmatZ> I am not compiling a release version, so assert() grows many small functions significantly...
21:20:42 <Rubidium> I hope it isn't an enable-debug=3-ish build either ;)
21:21:10 <Yexo> SmatZ: that makes the test basically useless
21:21:29 <SmatZ> yeah, recompiling now :)
21:22:30 <Rubidium> gheheh... today xkcd remember me of Guy Steele's "Growing a language" speech/presentation
21:23:25 <SmatZ> :)
21:24:45 <V453000> hi beer :)
21:25:07 <SmatZ> hello V. :)
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21:32:22 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/forceinline.diff <- on two random testgames with quite a few things going on this makes openttd significantly faster
21:32:24 <Yexo> tested with: time bin/openttd -g savegame.sav -snull -mnull -vnull:ticks=2000 -x
21:32:46 <SmatZ> good :)
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21:33:02 <Yexo> +- 7.5s without vs +- 6.6s with that diff
21:33:22 <SmatZ> 7.5s for 2000 ticks looks like very short time
21:33:26 <SmatZ> wasn't the game paused?
21:33:41 <SmatZ> or it wasn't a huge coop-style game :)
21:34:06 <Yexo> not paused, the game was from coop actually
21:34:08 <Yexo> 1378 trains
21:34:14 <frosch123> @calc 2000/74
21:34:14 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 27.027027027
21:34:22 <frosch123> one month
21:34:37 <frosch123> quite fast for 7.5s
21:34:40 <SmatZ> you have a very powerful CPU then :)
21:34:54 <Rubidium> or it is just scanning NewGRFs?
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21:35:10 <Yexo> Rubidium: I've tested that too of course
21:35:16 <Yexo> loading an almost empty games takes +- 1.7s
21:35:23 <Yexo> most of that is scanning newgrfs
21:35:58 <frosch123> you do not have 975 of them then :p
21:36:01 <Yexo> devs.openttd.org/~yexo/coop19.sav <- there is the savegame
21:36:12 <Yexo> only 600
21:36:18 <Yexo> but it's with a hot cache
21:37:00 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/speedy_md5.diff <- using openssl to calculate the md5 of newgrfs can speed up openttd a little bit
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21:37:16 <SmatZ> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/Winline_sort_disable_assert.txt only with 151 warnings...
21:37:20 <SmatZ> that is gcc 4.8
21:37:26 <Yexo> but openssl' license is problematic I think, and using gnutls (also in the diff) is not faster than our code
21:38:19 <Yexo> SmatZ: it would be more useful with the extra line of context, ie from where it fails to inline them
21:38:28 <SmatZ> also adds an (optional) dependence....
21:39:10 <SmatZ> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/make_log_disable_assert.txt Yexo <-- the whole log
21:39:12 <Yexo> yeah, it was mostly an experiment to see if it could be done faster
21:39:30 <Yexo> performance gain is minimal, so not worth the trouble imo
21:41:46 <andythenorth> hi hi Yexo, would you mind looking at this sometime? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3954
21:42:06 <andythenorth> I had a look at it at the weekend, but found I had questions, so de-prioritised it :)
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21:42:41 <andythenorth> hmm
21:42:58 <Yexo> sure, np
21:43:09 <andythenorth> the ticket should say the purpose - which is to provide more variety at industries with two outputs, e.g. farms
21:43:15 <andythenorth> I'll add that
21:43:20 <Yexo> please do
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21:44:42 <andythenorth> thanks
21:45:04 <Rait> anything else i can do regarding the w8 bug?
21:45:07 <Yexo> warning: inlining failed in call to 'SQCompiler::~SQCompiler() noexcept (true)': call is unlikely and code size would grow [-Winline] <- how can the call to that destructor be unlikely?
21:45:24 <Yexo> Rait: commenting out the "#define inline __forceinline" line should help
21:45:35 <Yexo> if not, wait for somebody else with msvc2012 who can fix it
21:46:39 <andythenorth> FIRS open tickets will soon all be graphics not code
21:46:45 <andythenorth> apart from bugs that get raised :P
21:47:02 <Rait> well, it's commented out and it still whines about this. the paste i gave is with this commented
21:47:18 <Rait> but that's just me unable to compile. the real bug i was referring to whas going to fullscreen
21:52:39 <andythenorth> bed
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21:52:53 <michi_cc> Rait: There's an identical line at src/3rdparty/squirrel/include/squirrel.h:39, you probably have to comment that as well.
21:59:08 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24718 /trunk/src (6 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-12 21:59:02 UTC)
21:59:09 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Rename GoodsEntry::days_since_pickup to GoodsEntry::time_since_pickup.
21:59:10 <planetmaker> evening
22:03:16 <Yexo> hi planetmaker
22:03:20 <Yexo> and good night :)
22:03:39 <planetmaker> :-) sleep well, Yexo
22:03:52 <Rait> damnit, still won't compile. something about SAFESEH. no idea what this is :)
22:03:59 <Rait> good night
22:04:11 <V453000> 90% servicing interval means that whenever reliability drops below 90%, train will want to service?
22:04:31 <frosch123> check the description
22:04:37 <frosch123> it is realtive to the max reliavility
22:04:43 <frosch123> but i do not know in which direction
22:04:52 <frosch123> whether drop to 90% or drop by 90% :)
22:04:58 <V453000> ah right
22:05:10 <V453000> well yeah that is exactly what I am wondering about :)
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22:05:50 <frosch123> the description says "by"
22:05:58 <V453000> yeah
22:06:08 <frosch123> just use "50" :p
22:06:09 <V453000> so if I set it to 0%, it should mean trains always want to service?
22:06:23 <V453000> 100 I mean, 0 disables it
22:06:26 <frosch123> if you set it to 0% i guess they should not want to leave depots :p
22:06:39 <V453000> exactly
22:06:58 <V453000> need something like that
22:07:14 <frosch123> no idea what happens when you set it to more than 100 :p
22:07:15 <V453000> autoreplace needs the train to demand a service
22:07:27 <V453000> idk but max is 900 for some reason :D guess thati s for the day units
22:07:33 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
22:07:47 <frosch123> well, the service percent/days setting is the most hackish mess we have in ottd
22:08:01 <frosch123> btw. if you have a running game, changing the value in adv. settings has no effect iirc
22:08:11 <frosch123> it only affects new vehicles, you have to change all your 5000 trains yourself
22:08:59 <V453000> yeah I know
22:09:06 <V453000> just for the next time
22:09:25 <V453000> hm what could be better, 15 days or 5%? .)
22:09:31 <V453000> I mean what occurs quicker
22:09:37 <V453000> would have to test I assume
22:09:39 <frosch123> depends on the vehicle
22:09:51 <frosch123> the reliabilty drops at different speed
22:10:03 <V453000> ah yeah that is true, there is some newgrf value for that
22:10:13 <V453000> hm, guess 15 days is good enough
22:10:43 <frosch123> anyway, if you only use it for autoreplace, then any value triggers it immediately
22:10:52 <V453000> anyway ... I already suggested it, but it would be amazing if the train list ->send all trains for servicing command would just reset that value
22:11:01 <frosch123> last servicing will always be the age of the vehicle, wouldn't it?
22:11:35 <V453000> yeah but if the value is 600 days and I want to autoreplace trains within 300 days, I need to force them to depots
22:11:38 <frosch123> well, there is no fs task about it, is there?
22:11:44 <frosch123> so i cannot add it to my todo bookmarks
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22:11:50 <V453000> ok :)
22:11:53 <V453000> will do
22:13:45 <V453000> btw is the bug where trains crash when at PBS if you make station longer?
22:14:01 <V453000> will report that as well in case
22:14:14 <V453000> it is in openttd since like forever it seems
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22:17:51 <Terkhen> good night
22:24:00 <V453000> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5362
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23:03:02 <frosch123> night
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23:29:47 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i think there are a few reservation errors with changing stations which nobody really looked at
23:30:05 <Eddi|zuHause> most stale reservations i've seen were with stations
23:30:19 <V453000> :)
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