IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-10-24
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00:14:38 <BadBrett> how many articulated parts can a vehicle have?
00:15:02 <Supercheese> Well, at least 7 plus the front vehicle
00:15:06 <Supercheese> as one of my grfs has that
00:17:12 <BadBrett> i'm writing a script for 32 turning angles and that will require a lot of articulated parts for loco+tender
00:18:15 <Supercheese> seems like theoretically you could have hundreds of articulated parts in GRF v8
00:18:34 <Supercheese> v7 appears to have more limits
00:20:35 <Eddi|zuHause> once upon a time the limit was 128
00:21:01 <Supercheese> That's the limit for v7, I gather
00:21:06 <BadBrett> I was afraid it was like 8 or 16... :P
00:21:23 <Eddi|zuHause> (being also the maximum train length, so a vehicle like that could not be part of a train with more than one vehicle)
00:22:33 <BadBrett> alright, that would (maybe) have been a problem then... what's the new limit?
00:22:56 <Supercheese> Probably something on the order of a couple thousand
00:23:07 <Supercheese> it increased from, what, 8 to 15 bits?
00:24:07 <Supercheese> Sooo... max of 32766 or so
00:24:40 <BadBrett> ahh... I guess I should RTFM
00:25:21 <Supercheese> The NML specs don't even state an upper bound :P
00:25:39 <Supercheese> For v8 that is; just 0..127 for v7.
00:27:55 <BadBrett> a vehicle with the length of a tile could consist of 16 parts... so you could still have trains with 8 wagons with v7... if i'm not mistaken
00:29:14 <BadBrett> that's a lot of transportation!
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09:33:01 <Nickshanks> wiki.openttd.org/Stations should link to [[Distant-join stations]]
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10:33:29 <planetmaker> nickshanks, it's a wiki, you know :-)
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11:42:10 <nickshanks> planetmaker: yes but editing is disabled for unregistered users, and registration of new user accounts is disabled
11:42:46 <nickshanks> ergo I have tried to find a way to contact someone who can edit it
11:52:57 <nickshanks> peter1138: yes! that worked. now I can edit stuff
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11:54:35 * andythenorth ponders how to build two grfs from one FIRS
11:55:55 <nickshanks> okay, I added a link.
11:58:42 <andythenorth> or two targets for the makefile
11:58:50 <andythenorth> pass in an arg to the build script for the grf
11:58:57 <andythenorth> switch templates 8bpp / 32bpp
11:59:07 <andythenorth> produce one or two grfs, in one or two zip files
11:59:57 <nickshanks> when building other people's random stuff, I like one makefile that does everything :)
12:06:15 <NGC3982> A bit of an arbitrary question
12:06:25 <NGC3982> But, how much can a normal modern freight engine pull?
12:06:44 <NGC3982> 2000 tonnes, or 20,000 tonnes? Im not used to the scales..
12:07:48 <andythenorth> depends on ruling grade, adhesion, friction, tractive effort (weight)
12:08:23 <andythenorth> and are you talking about in-game, or irl?
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12:16:02 <andythenorth> ~12,000t for 3,300hp
12:16:11 <andythenorth> that's the european record though
12:16:55 <NGC3982> Well, at least that's giving me a somewhat decent scale
12:17:21 <NGC3982> I was actually not aware if the numbers were in the thousands, or tens of thousands.
12:17:36 <andythenorth> thousands would be more common
12:18:36 <NGC3982> A horsepower per tonne, or something
12:19:23 <andythenorth> in the US any given route has a hp-per-tonne ratio
12:19:28 <andythenorth> which is governed by the ruling grade
12:19:32 <andythenorth> and the type of power used
12:19:44 <andythenorth> not enough hp, the train crew will have to double the grade
12:19:55 <andythenorth> because then they have to re-air the train
12:20:11 <andythenorth> AC power has a lot more ability to creep a grade than DC power though
12:21:00 <andythenorth> NGC3982: ^ a typical UK coal train would have about that amount of cargo, with a ~3000 hp locomotive
12:21:03 <Soft> So I have this weird problem with openttd. Only carriages are shown in the rail vechiles window and I cannot find a way to buy a locomotive.
12:21:09 <Soft> I only started playing yeasterday so maybe this is some common beginner mistake.
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12:21:15 <Soft> the locomotives were visible before
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12:24:53 <NGC3982> APTX: Sorry, bad hilight.
12:26:11 <NGC3982> By the way, i fail to find an rcon entry on how to change Plane speed factor?
12:28:54 <NGC3982> Oh, it seems unchangeable during network games.
13:24:33 <V453000> hi, is somewhere a setting to change the time that clients have to connect to the server?
13:38:37 <planetmaker> nickshanks, I see, I wasn't aware that one couldn't register (anymore) via the wiki :-) Thanks for adding that piece of info
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14:12:39 <nickshanks> I have two double-track stations
14:13:00 <nickshanks> i know i should join them with double track, and put crossovers outside each station
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14:14:31 <Flygon> Well, if it's a terminus, just build the same station design... but without tracks going out one end :p
14:14:56 <nickshanks> but the last link I posted doesn't specify which signals are used, nor explain why
14:15:17 <nickshanks> they all seem to be one-way
14:16:27 <Flygon> Use the Path Signal type signal for the signal closest to the station, build the crossover, then use one way signals... is what I'm pretty sure I should be saying
14:16:52 <Flygon> Path signals being the 2nd from the right, and one-way being the 1st from the right
14:18:06 <Flygon> I should feel bad for joining this channel, and then just instantly trying to help peeps new to this game, despite never having been in this channel before... but it's 1:17AM and I'm bored... and having been baffled by signals myself, well, dayum :B
14:19:00 <nickshanks> i appreciate the efforts
14:19:29 <Flygon> It'd be even easier to set up a multiplayer game, and work from there
14:20:15 <nickshanks> on that basic two-way station, there are eight signals
14:20:50 <nickshanks> when you say 'first from the right' whice right are you referring to? :)
14:21:28 <Flygon> Lemme try to MSPaint up some station :p
14:22:22 <nickshanks> label the signals A, B and C, and say whether each is one-way, block/entry/exit/combo/path
14:23:00 <Flygon> Though, in almost every game I play
14:23:04 <Flygon> I use only two types of signals
14:23:21 <Flygon> The Path signal, and the one way
14:23:46 <nickshanks> the light signals are harder to distinguish between block and path types. i will use semaphore ones
14:23:59 <nickshanks> i can tell the difference between yellow and red
14:24:14 <Flygon> I just took a screenie with Lights, heh...
14:24:29 <nickshanks> as long as i know which is which
14:24:29 <Flygon> The game I have running uses GRF's that replace the semaphores... and makes them hard to see
14:25:33 <nickshanks> the basic problem i have with the wiki is all it says for this is "With this station layout, trains can use both platforms when coming from either direction."
14:25:57 <nickshanks> and I am left thinking "what exactly is the layout? and why does it work?"
14:25:57 <Flygon> Uploading the screenie
14:26:18 <Flygon> It's because the trains can go from the signals put in the platform from behind
14:26:28 <Flygon> And the one way signal will block the train if both platforms are full
14:26:46 <nickshanks> that wouldn't work with a terminus though
14:26:51 <nickshanks> because the tracks are two-way
14:27:12 <Flygon> And purple are the signals that are one way; trains cannot go from behind these signals
14:28:31 <Flygon> Also, to help understand the way a train's pathfinding works better.... as in, how it's planned
14:28:37 <Flygon> I recommend going to the Advanced Options
14:28:59 <NGC3982> Im running a dedicated server on my own
14:29:01 <Flygon> Display Options > Show Reserved Tracks: On
14:29:19 <NGC3982> I made sure that min_active_clients was set to "1", so that the game pauses when nobody is online.
14:29:22 <Flygon> It also helps you detect traffic jams much more easily
14:29:57 <planetmaker> nickshanks, but it's true. The easiest approach to signaling is path signals:
14:30:02 <nickshanks> okay, yes i saw that in some screenshots
14:30:14 <planetmaker> build a path signal there where a train may stop without blocking any important track pieces like junctions
14:30:16 <nickshanks> show reserved tracks, i mean
14:30:24 <NGC3982> For some reason, time flows on the server when im not online.
14:30:25 <planetmaker> thus your station will need exactly one signal at the entrance before the X
14:30:31 <Flygon> Also, I'll take a screenie of a successful terminus to show you an example of one :p
14:30:37 <planetmaker> NGC3982, min_active_clients > 0 ?
14:30:41 <nickshanks> so if I use path signals, i never need block signals?
14:30:53 <Flygon> planetmaker: You put these things in words I fail to use :3
14:31:49 <nickshanks> i spend 99% of my time playing this game paused :)
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14:31:56 <planetmaker> I've tried to explain them a few times, Flygon ;-)
14:32:09 <planetmaker> nickshanks, why? does time matter?
14:32:23 <nickshanks> I wish there was a free/open clone of Railroad Tycoon 2
14:32:28 <NGC3982> It's not constistent, but i closed down the server and did not open it for four hours. When i closed it, the year was 2010. When i join again, it's 2017?
14:32:35 <nickshanks> i had it many years ago but it never got carbonised
14:32:36 <Flygon> planetmaker: Probably because it's easier to build new parts of a live network
14:32:39 <planetmaker> (yes, it does, if you play with defaults, where vehicles become unavailable after some time. I tend to forget that)
14:32:42 <Flygon> As unrealistic as that is :p
14:33:01 <planetmaker> Flygon, easier yes. But that's the part of playing I find most interesting among a few other select things
14:33:21 <Flygon> It's more thrilling to do it live
14:33:38 <Flygon> As well as the chance to realize how stupid you are when you fail to prevent train crashes
14:33:50 <Flygon> I've crashed many a train because I changed a signal at a bad time :B
14:34:38 <planetmaker> who hasn't done that? ;-)
14:34:51 <nickshanks> flygon: as best I can tell, the second screenshot is the same as the first in terms of signalling
14:34:59 <planetmaker> but as I play MP most of the time, stopping time is not really an option for me
14:35:44 <Flygon> I'd like to play MP with friends... but we'd like to play long drawn out games on 2048*2048 maps over the course of 200+ years
14:35:44 <nickshanks> well in my game it was Apr 20th when i decided I eff'd up and went back to jan 3rd which is when i first saved
14:36:07 <Flygon> Obviously not an option when the net-sync craps out on anything bigger than 512*512 :p
14:36:35 <planetmaker> nickshanks, activate autosave on a monthly basis ;-)
14:37:13 <planetmaker> Flygon, the network or server has no issues with big maps. The clients do
14:37:33 <planetmaker> 2k^2 maps just are too big to be fun. You can't finish them
14:37:44 <Flygon> I've come close, in SP
14:39:15 <Flygon> But then again, close is subjective
14:39:31 <Flygon> The North America scenario is brilliant, either way
14:39:38 <nickshanks> okay, new problem: there's a transmitter along the path where i would like to build, and it says "cost to clear: N/A". does that mean I can't clear it?
14:40:29 <Flygon> Transmitters are unplowable, without a magic bulldozer
14:40:51 <nickshanks> so, basically i have to choose another place to put the station
14:45:33 <Flygon> Anyway, I come with a bizarre question
14:46:14 <Flygon> Is the only way to make 'green' tiles out of 'desert' tiles in the Sub-tropical climate inside the scenario editor, to place lakes, and bomb them?
14:47:35 <nickshanks> i like this: unpause demolish pause; unpause build station pause -> station is exploding :)
14:47:59 <Flygon> V453000: Natural lakes, not artificial
14:52:37 <planetmaker> Flygon, ctrl+place desert
14:53:13 <planetmaker> I hope the tooltip of that explains it, too (at least in English and German it should)
14:53:46 <Flygon> I bloody love you, mate
14:54:08 <NGC3982> Can someone let me know if Andy returns?
14:54:16 <planetmaker> beware... I just toy around with something like a rail gun ;-)
14:54:20 <planetmaker> and it's bloody fun :D
14:54:37 <Flygon> I'll try to avoid playing Quake 3 with you
14:54:42 <nickshanks> next question: is there a way to rotate the map? if so, it's very well hidden
14:54:54 <planetmaker> nah... the real thing.... linear motors ftw :)
14:55:30 <Flygon> Fine, I'll hope you're not Australian :p
14:55:42 <planetmaker> accelerating in 1.5 milliseconds from 0 to 5m/s is... fast ;-)
14:56:13 <planetmaker> with a load of a few kg
14:56:45 <planetmaker> not sure I trust the software yet
14:56:50 <planetmaker> but that's what it says
14:58:37 <Rubidium> how did you calculate that?
14:58:49 <V453000> what that works? the ctrl place desert? never knew :D live and learn
14:58:55 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 3333.33333333
14:59:10 <planetmaker> Rubidium, the acceleration is the actual parameter I set. And that's 3.3 km/s^2
15:00:23 <Flygon> You guys are absolutely wonderful
15:03:17 <NGC3982> Wait, this is only software?
15:03:30 * Rubidium finally found his thinking error
15:03:40 <NGC3982> "load of a few kg" in 10m/s^2 is a bit of a umpf.
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17:45:28 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24625 /trunk/src/lang (3 files in 2 dirs) (2012-10-24 17:45:18 UTC)
17:45:29 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:30 <DorpsGek> latvian - 24 changes by Parastais
17:45:31 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 17 changes by jhsoby
17:45:32 <DorpsGek> tamil - 196 changes by aswn
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18:06:38 <Pinkbeast> Are you still building that mad gigantic station?
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20:28:01 <NGC3982> That was a fantastic version.
20:28:21 <NGC3982> Man, that track was litteraly ezploded.
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20:49:41 * andythenorth is on a British Army diet
20:49:53 <andythenorth> gah wrong autocomplete :P
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21:55:47 <Simonn> I'm really starting to get this openttd trains thing
21:56:01 <Simonn> make my network, add a bit more trains, check for bottlenecks, add a bit more , ...
21:56:50 <Rubidium> I just detected an infinite loop in your logic
21:57:24 <Simonn> yeah the network is over capacity now
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