IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-09-28
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04:54:00 <Supercheese> There isn't a vehicle variable to determine whether a tram is running on tram-only tracks vs. road-embedded tram tracks, is there?
04:54:26 <Supercheese> I've been asked that question in the fake subways thread, and I haven't seen one in preliminary browsal of the specs
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05:00:58 <Rubidium> Supercheese: I think that needs roadtypes first
05:01:11 <Supercheese> Yeah, makes sneeze
05:01:21 <Supercheese> sheesh, my auto-correct went crazy with that one
05:17:54 <Knogle> roadtypes makes me sneeze too.
05:18:32 * Supercheese hopes a "no clip" variable will get added to roadtypes when they come out
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06:41:54 <__ln__> must be a british english word
06:43:49 <Supercheese> what about juvenile goats?
06:52:03 <xahodo> openttd-usefull is over a year old, is it still relevant or should I download the individual development packages?
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07:31:06 <Terkhen> xahodo: I don't remember any recent updates to libraries that affect OpenTTD directly so it should be okay to use it
07:31:55 <Terkhen> IIRC our binaries are compiled with it :)
07:46:45 <xahodo> I am trying to get git source control providerr set up (visual studio 2010) got any experience with it?
07:49:43 <planetmaker> xahodo, mind, if you want to play multiplayer, you *must* use SVN
07:51:01 <Terkhen> xahodo: no, when I use MSVC I only use it to compile, everything else is done by a console
07:54:04 <xahodo> Ok, so svn is the way to go?
07:54:32 <planetmaker> it highly depends what you want to do, xahodo
07:54:46 <planetmaker> for development I really would not recommend it. On the contrary
07:54:58 <planetmaker> For just compiling one of the official versions it's essential, though
07:55:39 <xahodo> grmbl... been stumbling around with git for nothing then.
07:56:46 <planetmaker> if you only play single player it doesn't matter. But in multiplayer the version detection of git or hg will of course report the git or hg version. but multiplayer goes by the svn revision
07:56:53 <planetmaker> which... can only be detected using svn
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14:33:51 <Kitty> Is founding a new town ever a profitable venture ?
14:35:14 <Alberth> perhaps if you do enough transport with it, but honestly, I don't know, I have never founded a town
14:35:20 <Jake> Probably not. But the time you can afford to do it, who cares?
14:35:51 <planetmaker> I'd assume that it depends on the timeframe you look at amortisation
14:36:11 <Kitty> is there a way to get yearly profit from a station ?
14:39:37 <Alberth> Kitty: How would you calculate that?
14:39:43 <Jake> My firast experiment with ECS, as well as a rare scenario with a somewhat detailed back-story.
14:41:23 <Alberth> Kitty: you can pull the list of trains that visit this station, but that's for their entire order list
14:42:12 <Kitty> hmm, what are the stats on air crashes? I just had the same plane crash twice in about 5 minutes...
14:43:54 <Alberth> fast planes landing on small airports is not so good
14:45:11 <Alberth> Kitty: what I mean is that vehicles make money on traveling with cargoes. Stations are just transfer medium, they don't make money
14:46:42 <Kitty> Alberth: it's an A380 landing on an international airport
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14:48:00 <Alberth> ok, that should be normal chance, depending on your aircraft crash setting
14:48:56 <planetmaker> but randome chance doesn't mean that two things can't happen immediately after eachother
14:49:04 <planetmaker> it's random. Not temporally equally spaced
14:49:15 <Kitty> I am aware it could just be bad luck
14:49:57 <planetmaker> good :-) Just saying. Randomness is usually a concept which often is a bit mis-understood, especially if statistics are low (N<=2)
14:50:37 <Kitty> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee is a random string
14:50:44 <Kitty> people just don't realise it
14:50:57 <Kitty> this has been used as a weakness to exploint one time pads
14:55:04 <Kitty> I feel it is relevant to me
14:55:23 <planetmaker> you'd be surprised to how many people in this channel it would apply :-P
14:55:39 <Kitty> I think that is true of most IRC channels
14:55:47 <Kitty> lets face it, IRC is the domain of the geek well and truelly now.
14:55:55 <Kitty> everyone else is playing with farcebook
15:13:15 <Rubidium> and 1234 is a random pin number ;)
15:14:18 <Rubidium> which is used by like 10% ;)
15:15:11 <Rubidium> (for 9 number pins I'd have a 1/3 chance of getting the right one by testing one number)
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15:30:49 <planetmaker> nice article, Rubidium. Thanks :-)
15:43:35 <frosch123> hmm, i always prefered odd numbers
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15:51:46 * NGC3982 writes a curriculum vitae.
15:51:54 * NGC3982 is not happy about it.
15:52:52 <Rubidium> darn it frosch123... that makes me think how odd odd numbers are, though they are about as odd as even numbers
15:53:23 <Rubidium> though the number of non-odd-non-even numbers is an infinitive time large
15:53:42 <Rubidium> wouldn't that make the chance of encountering an odd number like 0?
15:53:45 <planetmaker> but two is the only truely odd prime ;-)
15:53:58 <planetmaker> or rather even two is a truely odd prime
16:00:58 <frosch123> hmm, 4/20 is no known term in my generation
16:01:06 <frosch123> likely only american
16:23:58 <peter1138> it's a pot-head thing
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18:51:29 <AWQAPUMA> INVITING EVERYONE TO PLAY LATINOAMERICA SCENARIO
18:51:49 <AWQAPUMA> INVITING EVERYONE TO PLAY LATINOAMERICA SCENARIO
18:51:50 <AWQAPUMA> INVITING EVERYONE TO PLAY LATINOAMERICA SCENARIO
18:51:51 <AWQAPUMA> INVITING EVERYONE TO PLAY LATINOAMERICA SCENARIO
18:51:52 <AWQAPUMA> INVITING EVERYONE TO PLAY LATINOAMERICA SCENARIO
18:51:52 <AWQAPUMA> INVITING EVERYONE TO PLAY LATINOAMERICA SCENARIO
18:51:53 <AWQAPUMA> INVITING EVERYONE TO PLAY LATINOAMERICA SCENARIO
18:51:53 <AWQAPUMA> INVITING EVERYONE TO PLAY LATINOAMERICA SCENARIO
18:51:54 <AWQAPUMA> INVITING EVERYONE TO PLAY LATINOAMERICA SCENARIO
18:51:55 <AWQAPUMA> INVITING EVERYONE TO PLAY LATINOAMERICA SCENARIO
18:51:55 <AWQAPUMA> INVITING EVERYONE TO PLAY LATINOAMERICA SCENARIO
18:51:56 <FLHerne> AWQAPUMA: Don't spam please :-(
18:51:56 <AWQAPUMA> INVITING EVERYONE TO PLAY LATINOAMERICA SCENARIO
18:51:57 <AWQAPUMA> INVITING EVERYONE TO PLAY LATINOAMERICA SCENARIO
18:52:33 <FLHerne> What's the point in shouting the same thing 15 times, anyway? :P
18:57:44 *** AWQAPUMA was kicked by DorpsGek (I hate shouting)
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19:33:21 <andythenorth> does anyone understand how autorefit handles cargo subtypes?
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19:37:13 <planetmaker> andythenorth, iirc it tries to maintain subtype... but i might be wrong
19:39:20 <andythenorth> I'm trying to figure out if subtypes allow invalid orders to be created
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19:39:28 <andythenorth> can't be bothered to test right now :P
19:43:37 <andythenorth> subtypes allow the creation of invalid orders
19:43:50 <andythenorth> specifically in the case that subtypes change vehicle length (there may be others)
19:44:05 <andythenorth> this means that I need to redesign BANDIT again :P
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20:42:57 <frosch123> hmm, i ordered a new cellphone sim card yesterday
20:43:06 <frosch123> meanwhile i received 3 mails about the order status
20:43:14 <frosch123> each one from a different mail address :p
20:44:02 <frosch123> (as in completely different companies)
20:45:02 <Alberth> and none of them said 'shipped' ?
20:45:07 <frosch123> lol... there is a hint at the bottom of the email: protect the environment - you do not have to print every email
20:46:06 <frosch123> Alberth: one order confirmation, one after the order was verified or so, and one about sending it out
20:47:23 <frosch123> not sure how many humans are involved in these three steps, but if they are, they have annoying work hours
20:50:19 <frosch123> hmm, maybe the order was verified by someone in south americe
20:50:50 <Kylie> so this train line with many power plants connected to the same coal mine only usually gets 1/3 of its total cargo capacity on each traiin at any one time
20:51:38 <frosch123> connecting multiple power plants to a single mine?
20:51:45 <frosch123> how rare, most do the revere
20:52:12 <Yexo> Kylie: are you using full load orders?
20:52:39 <frosch123> Kylie: i was wondering whether you would be playing ecs or so
20:52:51 <frosch123> as that's the industry set i know the least
20:53:19 <Kylie> there are 8 trains, yexo, and 1/3 is 50 to 65 tonnes of cargo showing before a train pulls in
20:53:32 <frosch123> with the other sets everyone i saw so far, delivered coal from multiple mines to a single power plant
20:53:54 <Kylie> frosch123: no, im not playing ecs
20:54:06 <Kylie> Yexo: and they dont worrk, i've tried
20:54:16 <Yexo> Kylie: so what exactly is your problem?
20:55:43 <Kylie> bcause when i use them, all8 traains end up waiting forever for 300 or 320 tonnes of coal to be handed to them. then usually there is a reserve of 4 trains that go out and back in while the otther 4 are waiting
20:55:58 <Kylie> and hm maybe not a issue after all
20:56:25 <Yexo> you can change some setting so that trains never reverse while waiting for a signal
20:56:45 <Yexo> and it those trains all wait too long, have you considered somewhat smaller trains?
20:56:58 <Yexo> 8 trains that are only able to carry 150 tons of coal wouldn't have to wait so long
20:57:55 <Kylie> I was trying to get orders to wait until 50 percent
21:07:25 <planetmaker> you can try to tune things by means of time tabling. But that's for this purpose also not reliable
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22:11:05 * Jake is reading the NML tutorial, and already has a headache a mere four pages in.
22:11:30 <FLHerne> It's quite a good tutorial, actually :-)
22:11:46 <Zuu> Try NFO, and NML will feel alot easier.
22:11:50 * FLHerne has been trying to apply it to stuff :P
22:12:17 <Jake> I know. If it wasn't I'd have given up in despair before I got to the end of the introduction.
22:13:18 <Zuu> However I have never really got the interest in making NewGRFs, so I havn't studied the specs more than just lightly.
22:14:29 <Jake> Me neither, but I had an idea for a really good one.
22:14:51 <Yexo> I've never been that interested in making them, but at first I was very curious how they worked
22:15:00 <Yexo> then I got hooked and wanted something better :p
22:16:04 <Jake> Sounds like my introduction to Dwarf Fortress modding.
22:16:23 <Zuu> If I would start thinking about making something, I would quickly get reminded about that it would take painfully a lot of time to draw the graphics. So I rather stay with programming oriented content :-)
22:16:53 <Yexo> you can do newgrf programming without touching graphics at all
22:16:58 <Yexo> that's what I try to do ;)
22:17:26 <Jake> I'll have to do the same; can't draw to save my life.
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22:19:54 <FLHerne> Jake: What's this great idea? :-)
22:22:20 <Jake> An assortment of "seaport" buildings that require various kinds of cargo, to represent shipping stuff off the edge of the map.
22:23:47 <Jake> Might also do an "airport" building that accepts passengers, mail and goods as well as generating some of the latter.
22:27:52 <Jake> The idea is to make smaller maps seem like they're connected to the wider world; anything smaller than 1024x1024 feels too small to function as a closed system, and yet I can't make good scenarios bigger than 512x512.
22:37:11 * planetmaker also hardly ever drew graphics and wrote in comparison to the art work plenty of hours of newgrf code ;-)
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