IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-09-20
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00:07:32 <Supercheese> Sorry, was afk and forgot to say
00:22:47 <Supercheese> (audio unnecessary, just music)
00:41:03 <Supercheese> the small prototype is what's shown under construction
00:41:32 <Supercheese> their hope is to eventually build ones much larger as shown in their 3D renders
00:42:46 <Bad_Brett> kinda reminds me of the carryalls from Dune II
00:44:17 <Bad_Brett> what a game that was
00:45:40 <TinoDidriksen> They showcase it used for military airdrops. I doubt that will ever happen - way too big unarmored target.
00:45:58 <Supercheese> yeah, they're very ambitious
00:46:10 <Supercheese> the practical heads will likely prevail
00:48:05 <Supercheese> the military application I conjecture will be more for surveillance and transport far from combat
00:48:37 <Supercheese> unless they can put some fancy countermeasures on it, I wouldn't take it near combat zones
00:48:40 <Bad_Brett> yeah i think so too
00:49:40 * Supercheese wants to make a GRF with that airship
00:49:51 <Bad_Brett> they probably won't drop tanks in the warzone
00:50:11 <Bad_Brett> you wanna see something scary? :)
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00:50:33 <Bad_Brett> apple store opens in a mall in sweden:
00:51:09 <Supercheese> holy crap is that the line
00:52:43 <Supercheese> what the heck are they doing :|
00:57:17 <Bad_Brett> that shit is like religion here
00:57:28 <Bad_Brett> it's like a religious cult of apple fans
00:58:00 <Supercheese> You know that Apple chose it's logo -- an apple with a bite taken out of it -- exactly for it's religious connotations?
00:58:34 <Bad_Brett> my girlfriend actually presented that theory a few days ago... so it's true?
00:58:55 <Supercheese> Thou shalt not die, said the serpent
00:59:54 <Bad_Brett> i bet the blue guys were paid a lot to keep the energy levels up
01:05:46 <Bad_Brett> i've seen a lot of strange videos from japan but this may be even harder for me to understand :/
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03:26:11 <Bad_Brett> Supercheese: do you have matlab?
03:26:30 <Supercheese> I don't have it installed on this machine but I have access to it
03:26:38 <Supercheese> never used it much though
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03:46:16 <Bad_Brett> ok... i'm doing my scenario in a matlab GUI that generates much of the nml code... it's not finished, but it's pretty good at handling sprites (renames, resizes sprites to all zoom levels and creates all the spritegroups) and you get a quite good overview over stuff... if you want to try it, just let me know :)
03:46:51 <Supercheese> lots of folks use C-preprocessing, with #defines and stuff
03:47:05 <Supercheese> the devzone and compile farm support it
03:56:59 <Bad_Brett> i know, i did that first as well, using FIRS as a blueprint
04:07:26 <Bad_Brett> but i still believe that i will save a lot of time in the end by customizing a GUI, so that I quickly can do minor changes and get a good overview without having to worry about hundreds of text files
04:45:54 <Supercheese> I personally either develop all in a single .nml file, or simple splits and #includes
04:46:01 <Supercheese> no fancy macro defining and whatnot
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06:18:17 <Supercheese> salvete, excitati
06:19:08 <Supercheese> wherefore thine exuberance?
06:20:17 <NGC3982> It's a sunny morning, I'm on the bus and I'm filled with jazz.
06:20:31 <telanus> Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening
06:21:43 <NGC3982> Very, very good jazz.
06:24:40 <__ln__> you make "jazz" sound like some new drug or something. :)
06:24:59 <Kjetil> when in fact it is a very old drug
06:53:59 <NGC3982> __ln__: Oh, well. It does have the same effects.
07:13:28 <__ln__> good morning Supercheese
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11:12:04 <__ln__> hello belgiumese person from belgiumland
11:31:31 <Simonn> I am looking for a grf with planes which are very very big any ideas?
11:31:41 <Simonn> like futuristic very very big planes
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11:32:08 <planetmaker> There are about two planesets: av8 and WorldAirlinerSet
11:32:52 <Simonn> already took a look at those
11:32:52 <planetmaker> planes are not a suitable means of transport for huge quantities. Best throughput ingame is either by train or by ship
11:33:16 <Simonn> but I'm starting a new massive game and was wondering if there was such a plane
11:33:20 <Simonn> before I started one and found out about it later
11:35:07 <Simonn> well that's still a bit small ;o
11:35:22 <Beardie> well i have made a A380-900F
11:35:25 <Beardie> its just not in the set lol
11:35:37 <Beardie> thats even bigger lol
11:35:58 <__ln__> but only one model of A380 currently exists in real life.
11:36:37 * __ln__ was on an Airbus factory tour in Toulouse a month ago
11:36:47 <Beardie> A380-900 would have 700 pax and 70 mail
11:37:22 <Beardie> A380-900F would have 1300 mail
11:37:33 <Beardie> but as i said its not coded into WAS set yet
11:38:32 <Beardie> whe it is it should be the biggest realistic plane in openttd world ;)
11:39:15 <Frankr> Simmon if you want a massive plane you could decode a grf and then change one number in the Action 0 and it'll be done, :)
11:40:08 <Beardie> just like i was tempted to make a version of was with concorde at 5,000mph just to see what it would be like LOL
11:40:25 <Beardie> then put the game on double speed
11:43:27 <Frankr> If you don't know how i could quite easily change the A380 and 747 pax to whatever you want and send you a private version of WAS
11:46:17 <Simonn> Could you like instead of 600 passengers 2500 passengers
11:46:21 <Simonn> and make it load/unload a bit faster
11:46:29 <Frankr> Well i am a developer of WAS, :)
11:47:05 <NGC3982> What's WAS? A NewGRF?
11:47:05 <Simonn> it's because I'm doing some building in the future
11:47:08 <Frankr> It would be under the one condition it would not be distributed and only for your private use
11:47:39 <Simonn> yea just the biggest, fastest plane of the set
11:47:52 <Frankr> WAS is World Airliners Set
11:48:07 <Simonn> with 2500 passengers, some mail and better loading/unloading speed
11:48:21 <Simonn> maybe also make the cruising speed triple fast
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13:17:46 <Spacks> got any experience with railroad tycoon?
13:20:58 <NGC3982> Not as a community, no.
13:22:50 <Spacks> what about personally?
13:29:01 <Bad_Brett> i love railroad tycoon
13:29:29 <Bad_Brett> the original from 1990 and deluxe from 1993 that is
13:30:24 <Bad_Brett> it's actually a much better game than the original TT
13:31:08 <NGC3982> That actually looks quite nice.
13:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you could actually build doubletrack in RRT? or is that a "deluxe" feature?
13:35:51 <Bad_Brett> if i remember it correctly
13:36:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess i didn't understand enough english to figure that out back then
13:36:31 <Bad_Brett> i think we discovered it by mistake actually
13:36:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i "lost" my copy due to a virus, though, so i couldn't play it very long
13:37:54 <NGC3982> Old school computer problems.
13:38:15 <Bad_Brett> the best strategy in general was to build horizontal railroads with double tracks and signal towers on every third tile... you could run 10 trains on the same line without problem
13:38:25 <NGC3982> I haven't noted a virus or trojan for a few years now
13:38:34 <NGC3982> And i haven't used any AV during that time.
13:38:44 <NGC3982> It seems like an old problem.
13:40:42 <Bad_Brett> yes... sadly, RRT2 had huge bugs that kind of ruined the whole game... RRT3 felt weird... and Sid Meyer's Railroads! must be one of the worst games i've ever played
13:41:05 <Bad_Brett> I think it was that disappointment that brought me to the TT-forums
13:45:29 <Bad_Brett> i wanted to play a good transport simulator again
13:45:29 <Bad_Brett> and my goal is to capture some of the original RRT magic in my scenario
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14:02:33 <Simonn> I have a train station with 2 coal mines in range
14:02:39 <Simonn> and a couple of trains pas there
14:02:43 <Simonn> but only one train can load at the same time
14:03:56 <Bad_Brett> the second train should start loading when the first one is full i think
14:04:19 <Simonn> can't I make em all load at the same time?
14:07:58 <Bad_Brett> why would you want that?
14:08:58 <Rubidium> there's some advanced setting; I think it's called improved loading
14:09:27 <Rubidium> but that can leave the station full with 99% loaded trains and then all trains will try to depart at the same time
14:10:36 <Bad_Brett> you usually want to avoid that
14:11:18 <Bad_Brett> it's not very realistic either
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16:59:16 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, maybe it's because as a kid i played easier difficulties, but i totally can't manage RRT to turn a profitable business
17:01:25 <Bad_Brett> haha, are you playing right now?
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17:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i just stopped after 4 failed games
17:02:58 <Bad_Brett> build east-west, buy at least 30% of your own shares and build loco+1 mail+1 or 2 pass cars
17:03:57 <Bad_Brett> and try to claim the bonuses
17:04:25 <Bad_Brett> if you want to play aggressive, you can take over your opponents before they make any profit, steal their money and sell them off
17:14:29 <Razal> I have not found the answer to this elsewhere: With v1.2.2 and the eGRVTS newGRF, when I build a passenger tram line every stop incurs a Cost, not a Profit. Is that as designed?
17:15:08 <FLHerne> Razal: Are you using transfer orders?
17:15:17 <FLHerne> If not, you're just making a loss :P
17:15:36 <Razal> I've tried both ways, and varying distances
17:16:13 <Razal> oh.. Something I didn't think of. When I did try no transfers, there's a chance it was picking up transfer passengers. I bet that's what it is.
17:17:49 <Razal> Thank you. That was easier than I expected.
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18:25:45 <cheeeesey> Hey, is it allowed to upload videos on youtube and earn money?
18:25:59 <cheeeesey> i mean let's plays of openttd
18:27:04 <Yexo> it depends on which newgrfs/scenarios you use, if none: yes
18:27:30 <Yexo> if you use any newgrf/scenario it depends on their license, if you use any with for example a CC-NC license I don't think it's allowed
18:28:01 <Rubidium> there might also be issues when using the original graphics/sound/music
18:28:15 <valhallasw> and it depends on your jurisdiction
18:28:25 <valhallasw> in the US, a lot more is allowed under fair use
18:28:40 <Yexo> valhallasw: "earning money" is generally not "fair use"
18:29:19 <Yexo> if those videos are just to promote OpenTTD without any gain for yourself it's much easier to defend as "fair use" and I'd say you're almost certainly in the clear
18:29:44 <valhallasw> Yexo: commercial or not is one of the factors
18:29:49 <valhallasw> but commercial use can be fair use
18:30:26 <valhallasw> after all, it's typically used for things like reviews
18:30:53 <valhallasw> and 'back in the days', reviews were found in magazines... commercial magazines
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18:38:54 <andythenorth> we should engineer this shit out
18:44:26 <Bad_Brett> i thought the discussion was over?
18:45:26 <Bad_Brett> i'm not an angry guy really
18:51:17 <Bad_Brett> but i think i made a valid point there. i think people didn't realised that the "arrogance" i talked about wasn't just in my topic, but the general attitude on the forums... i mean, some kid is really excited and asks where he can find a 32bpp graphics pack, and all the responses he gets are "let me google it for you" or "if you want graphics, do them yourself"
18:52:25 <Yexo> Bad_Brett: I think it was very clear that you didn't talk just about that single topic. But I'm not going to continue the discussion here. If you have any problems with the attitude at the forum please open a new topic in "Forum moderation and feedback"
18:53:12 <Bad_Brett> nah, it's ok. just wanted to make sure. i just don't want to have a personal vendetta vid the devs :)
18:53:47 <Yexo> "the devs" don't exist like this. We're all separate people with our own opinions
18:55:05 <Bad_Brett> ok sorry... let me rephrase that: some of the programmers
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19:35:20 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i really have no cluew why this doesn't work out
19:39:23 * FLHerne is also disturbed by the hostility on the forums
19:39:58 <Supercheese> The important thing is that we all still get along after all is said and done, no?
19:40:43 <FLHerne> Dunno how many of the first-time posters who get flamed come back, though :-(
19:42:44 <FLHerne> I mean, just look at the newgrf-changing thing. Everyone gets angrily redirected to a [stickied] post that *is actually another copy of those threads, complete with the flaming and lmgtfy posts*, and doesn't have even a vague answer until two-thirds of the way down the first page!
19:43:07 <Supercheese> Yeah, that sticky is pretty bad
19:43:35 <Supercheese> but in all seriousness, actually searching will easily reveal the answer
19:43:47 * FLHerne considers reporting it...
19:43:50 <Supercheese> either Google of forum search
19:44:06 * FLHerne tries out the search function
19:44:34 <Supercheese> Google instant even suggests a search
19:44:38 <Supercheese> "openttd forum change newgrf in scenario"
19:44:49 <Supercheese> what I got when I typed "ottd forum ch"
19:46:18 <Supercheese> The fourth link from that search produced: "open consol and write set scenario_developer 1"
19:46:27 <Supercheese> so yeah, ~30 second search
19:46:35 <FLHerne> With the forum search, it seems to work as long as you already know what you want :P
19:46:38 <Yexo> FLHerne: but that post is sticky yet everyone who is "flamed" there somehow manages to not read it.
19:47:07 <Yexo> or any of the earlier topics, since as you say it's a repeat question
19:47:14 <FLHerne> Yexo: Well, it simply doesn't anwer the question it's supposed to explain...
19:47:18 <Yexo> what does that tell us about all those users asking the very same question again?
19:47:27 <Supercheese> As with most things, Google search seems to have better results than forum search
19:47:41 <Supercheese> but of course, the forums have an embedded Google search
19:48:50 <FLHerne> If you replaced it with a post that simply explained that the feature had been removed, described the reasons for it and explained (with appropriate disclaimers/warnings) how to reinstate it, *in the first post and easily understandable*, it would be a lot more use.
19:48:50 <Yexo> FLHerne: people who can't be bothered to read that sticky clearly aren't developers (they usually can read) and as such shouldn't find that function at all
19:49:37 <FLHerne> It's useful to people who aren't developers, too :P
19:50:08 <FLHerne> It has risks associated with it, but I'm willing to take those for some extra flexibility ;-)
19:50:19 <Yexo> could you write such a post? Considering that 1) the warnings have to be very clear 2) there should be a few links to posts indicating the problems (those are in the topic already) and 3) the explanation of how to enable it should be at the end
19:50:34 <Yexo> ^^ if you do, please pm me the text and I'll see if I can make a better sticky out of it
19:51:44 <FLHerne> I seem to remember seeing a draft by someone
19:52:19 <Supercheese> try Google search ;)
20:00:41 * FLHerne gets distracted looking at xkcd again :o
20:07:57 <Wolf01> that guy is good on keeping our poor workers busy with his comics
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21:10:00 <NGC3982> This is how i usually build my systems (except with bigger signal spaces)
21:10:13 <NGC3982> It pretty quickly get clocked with trains.
21:10:36 <NGC3982> Might it help to simply add a "buffer track" in between, to be used on both tracks?
21:10:52 <Supercheese> Might as well quad-track at that point
21:11:03 <NGC3982> But it's not that fun.
21:11:07 <NGC3982> And it looks terrible.
21:11:17 <NGC3982> (With reservation on that ..that looks more terrible).
21:11:20 <Kjetil> lies, lies I tell you!
21:11:27 <Yexo> NGC3982: to make the middle track useful you'd have to add some signals there
21:11:50 <NGC3982> Yexo: Would two-way block's do the trick?
21:12:02 <Yexo> no, stick to pathsignals
21:12:15 <Yexo> don't mix block signals with path signals, ever
21:13:10 <Supercheese> ^^ that is why the signals-in-tunnels/bridges patch has many issues
21:13:11 <Markk> But I know how to use both of them.
21:13:14 <NGC3982> I guess i can't use one-way path signals then, right
21:13:25 <Supercheese> well, part of why
21:13:25 <Yexo> Markk: within one junction?
21:13:41 <Markk> Yexo: Depends on the size of the junction.
21:13:43 <Yexo> hmm, how is that useful?
21:14:59 <Markk> Yexo: It depends on which type of junction it is.
21:15:13 <Markk> Not the best example though.
21:15:45 <Supercheese> blarg, maglev tracks
21:15:45 <Yexo> that could've been done with only path signals
21:15:49 <Supercheese> so hard to see junctions
21:16:41 <Yexo> Markk: still, you only mix them in a junction, not within one signal block, right? (all entries to one block are either block signals or path signals)?
21:18:26 <Markk> There is a better example.
21:18:41 <NGC3982> Markk: Oh, i do that.
21:18:49 <NGC3982> Im loving the symetry.
21:19:39 <Yexo> Markk: ok, so you do mix them, but it'd work exactly the same if all those normal block signals were replaced by one-way path signals
21:19:43 <Yexo> unless I'm overlooking something
21:20:09 <Yexo> means I can keep telling "don't mix" ;)
21:20:29 <Markk> But I don't like to use PBS if it's not necessary.
21:20:31 <NGC3982> This actually worked.
21:20:50 <NGC3982> The only problem is that i have to keep the buffer zones as long as the longest trains.
21:23:08 <NGC3982> And that sucks if you don't propagate trought thousands of tiles.
21:25:38 <peter1138> if i had my way it'd be path signals only ;p
21:25:40 <Markk> I don't really like that kind of building.
21:26:01 <NGC3982> Me neither. I wan't a single rail per direction and system.
21:26:11 <NGC3982> But that doesn't work that great in a 1500 train game.
21:34:10 <Markk> Works fine with dual tracks in each direction as well.
21:35:10 <NGC3982> Yes, of course. But it's no fun.
21:35:43 <Supercheese> "fun" is entirely a matter of opinion ;)
21:36:55 <Markk> I really like to have single rail.
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21:53:24 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... this game went so well, and suddenly everything turns south without me changing anything
22:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i now quit with 2 million in debt, even though i declared bankrupcy
22:26:01 <BadBrett> you lose money very quickly during recession if i remember it correctly
22:26:25 * TrueBrain is bored; how do I fix that?
22:26:26 <BadBrett> i've got to play as well, you got me all excited now :)
22:26:49 <BadBrett> are you playing original or deluxe?
22:35:17 <fjb> TrueBrain: Write an Eiffel compiler for Android.
22:35:34 <TrueBrain> why would I want to do that?
22:36:01 <fjb> It keeps you from being bored. :-)
22:36:55 <fjb> And I would have use for such a thing. Java is sometimes a pain if you take object orientation serious.
22:38:11 <fjb> Java is not bad. Or not that bad. It is better than anything from the 60s. Or most things at least.
22:38:57 <fjb> Oh, yes, musich was great then, especially compared to now.
22:40:46 <fjb> Or is it? May be that is why I have such a difficulty with Java sometimes.
22:43:36 <NGC3982> Java is the Klingon opera of music genres.
22:45:10 <fjb> Something like that. It could have been quite pleasant if they hadn*t cripled object orientation.
22:49:56 <TrueBrain> hehe, thatone is funny :D
22:52:05 <fjb> Do people who think that multi inheritance is obsolete really use object orientation? Or do they see objects just as another kind of struct?
22:52:37 <TrueBrain> hehe, annoying aint it?
22:54:06 <TrueBrain> but can I conclude here that you are rewriting OpenTTD in Java? :D
22:54:37 <fjb> Really. I have to inherit some classes from UI classes. That is logical. But then I have to implement the same stuff again and again when some classes do almost the same but use diffenrent UI elements.
22:54:53 <fjb> TrueBrain: Not really. :-)
22:55:27 <fjb> Interfaces give not the implementation of a methode, just its signiture.
22:56:08 <fjb> So I have to write same code over and over again. And I have to work on the same code in diferent classes.
22:56:18 <TrueBrain> code duplication ftw!
22:56:22 <TrueBrain> nothing can ever go wrong!
22:56:37 <fjb> Code duplication is really evel.
22:56:54 <TrueBrain> one of the worst things a programmer can do
22:57:04 <TrueBrain> when you select and hit copy, think REALLY carefully what your next action is going to be :D
22:57:21 <fjb> I try to move the duplicated code to its own class. But then I have to link the classes somehow.
22:58:07 <TrueBrain> hmm .. guess I could go to bed
22:58:14 <TrueBrain> that sounds boring, but meh
22:58:18 <fjb> That leads to some none trivial helper classes.
22:58:57 <TrueBrain> btw, in Java you can put a class in a class
22:59:21 <fjb> Going to bed is a good idea. I have to get up early. Helping my girl friend to clean her new home.
22:59:33 <TrueBrain> gratz on her new home
23:00:01 <fjb> TrueBrain: Yes, But you can not put the same inner class into different outer classes.
23:00:14 <fjb> Thank you. i will tell her.
23:00:24 <TrueBrain> but you can extend helper classes
23:00:30 <TrueBrain> but it gets rather ugly rather quick
23:00:53 <fjb> Yes, the helper classes really slow down the development.
23:01:06 <TrueBrain> hihi, he said slow in a reference to Java
23:01:44 <TrueBrain> bash a language once a day keeps the bad guys away
23:01:55 <fjb> I have to admit the compiled code runs much faster than expected. But the development is slow.
23:02:34 <fjb> But C# hast the same problems. No multi inheritance there eiter.
23:02:57 <TrueBrain> I had the issue with PHP too
23:03:07 <TrueBrain> can we conclude there is no multi inheritenace at all?
23:03:13 <fjb> And that are the both common languages which are sitting on a portable virtual language.
23:03:28 <TrueBrain> (emperic evidence ftw!)
23:03:51 <fjb> C++ has multi inheritance. But it is ugly. Eifel does it in a really nice way.
23:04:30 <TrueBrain> when you say Eifel, I think France
23:04:36 <fjb> Objective C is even worse. Who can really read what he once wrote in that obscure kind of C?
23:05:00 <TrueBrain> it does explain the poor quality of Apple application I guess :D
23:06:01 <fjb> Did you try to read some Objective C code? It looks very strange. Like a crossover between C, Lisp and some other stuff.
23:06:14 <TrueBrain> even worse, I have to write it
23:06:19 <TrueBrain> and I can't stop laughing when doing it
23:06:30 <TrueBrain> who in its right mind thought NSLog would be a good function name?
23:06:43 <TrueBrain> who is this NS, and why do I care about him?
23:07:12 <TrueBrain> (NSLog == printf, for all love and intend)
23:07:16 <fjb> Android has at least sane API names.
23:07:32 <TrueBrain> iOS has 2 letters for every API
23:07:38 <TrueBrain> "so you can see which API you use"
23:07:41 <TrueBrain> how about namespaces bitch?
23:08:06 <fjb> That sounds like a good practice from ancient C days.
23:08:18 <TrueBrain> ancient being the keyword here
23:08:26 *** KingPixaIII has joined #openttd
23:08:40 <TrueBrain> often all I can think is: fuck my life :P
23:08:51 <TrueBrain> then I realise I have to port the same code to Java
23:08:55 <TrueBrain> keeps me awake at night
23:09:23 <fjb> Java is nicer than Objective C at least.
23:09:42 <TrueBrain> well, in my opinion anyway :D
23:09:45 <fjb> But not nice enough to be fun.
23:10:11 *** EmperorPixaIV has joined #openttd
23:11:05 <TrueBrain> such is life .. PHP .. ObjC ... Java ... in a year I beg you to let me write C :D
23:11:15 <fjb> But now I have to go to bed. My girl friend will be sad if I oversleep.
23:11:25 <TrueBrain> sleep well, and enjoy :D
23:11:51 <fjb> C is ok for some things. But not that nice either.
23:12:07 <fjb> Thank you. Good night. :)
23:12:11 <TrueBrain> BLASTEMY! (how do you write that?)
23:12:36 <fjb> Don't know. To tired to write. :)
23:16:32 <TrueBrain> reading bash.org is always a good way of spending time
23:33:45 <BadBrett> about the callback "construction_probability" for industries... can anyone estimate a good "default" value for this one? 10? 50? 200?
23:45:34 <Eddi|zuHause> "Apple copied the SBB's station clock. SBB sending out lawyers."
23:49:51 <BadBrett> Apple copies everything...
23:50:18 <BadBrett> what version did you play? original or deluxe?
23:50:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, even samsung product designs... err... wait
23:50:49 <Eddi|zuHause> BadBrett: it doesn't really say in the program, but the manual is for deluxe
23:52:48 <BadBrett> deluxe contains south america and africa
23:53:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, then it's that
23:53:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i only played europe, though
23:55:03 <BadBrett> ...and that's the easiest map :)
23:56:28 <Eddi|zuHause> it's really strange, i make good profit for a while, and then there's almost nothing coming in anymore
23:59:25 <BadBrett> yeah... it was a few years since i played it so i don't remember everything except that the game is quite a challenge even for experienced players
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