IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-09-07
⏴ go to previous day
02:02:09 *** tokai|mdlx has joined #openttd
04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
05:38:40 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
06:08:31 <NGC3982> "das Kken" means "chicken" in german?
06:08:53 <planetmaker> a "küken" is a chicken baby
06:09:25 <planetmaker> or generally a baby bird
06:09:38 <planetmaker> more or less freshly hatched
06:09:43 <NGC3982> It's a very, very (very) bad word in swedish.
06:10:10 <planetmaker> I didn't know that the Swedes had the letter ü
06:10:36 <NGC3982> It's just "u", but the pronounciation is exactly the same.
06:10:58 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
06:11:09 <Supercheese> Exactly the same? When dealing with umlauts, that seems doubtful
06:12:12 <planetmaker> my dictionary doesn't know that as swedish word
06:12:14 <NGC3982> And it's not related to baby birds, as much as male genitalia.
06:12:36 <NGC3982> Markk: Doesn't "kuk" exist as a SAOL word in swedish?
06:13:17 <__ln__> Supercheese: swedes pronounce their 'u' very close to like 'ü'.
06:13:31 <NGC3982> According to the intarwebz.
06:14:05 <Markk> __ln__: We have two ways of pronounce "u".
06:14:55 <Supercheese> Hah, only two ways to pronounce vowels? In English there's almost dozens per vowel :P
06:15:20 <Markk> Supercheese: Depends on which wowel.
06:15:37 <planetmaker> you can try to click several times... obviously there's different speakers... which pronounce it of course slightly different :-)
06:16:24 <planetmaker> I prefer the one with the long vowel
06:16:24 <Markk> __ln__: But in the word "kuk" it's not pronounced like "ü" or "y".
06:16:34 <NGC3982> planetmaker: When listening to the example file: If presented to a swede, he would definitely hear the vulgar slang for male penis.
06:17:07 <planetmaker> same stem as the English one, obviously
06:17:26 <planetmaker> and my point of contact at industry is... Ellen DeCock
06:17:35 <planetmaker> what a name. But she isn't Swedish nor English
06:17:43 <__ln__> NGC3982: male .... there's a female one too??
06:17:46 <Supercheese> For the longest time, a cock was merely a rooster
06:17:57 <Supercheese> and then modern slang came in and messed the language up
06:18:01 <NGC3982> __ln__: Of course. Have you never met the swedish mee-male?
06:18:14 <planetmaker> that's how language always worked and will work, Supercheese ;-)
06:18:41 * Supercheese wonders what Esperanto slang is like
06:18:51 <Supercheese> what with it being a highly engineered language
06:19:09 <NGC3982> I do enjoy the poeticism of the older swedish language, but new slang is just ..better.
06:19:54 <planetmaker> Es ist mir ein Pläsir, mich einer elaborierten deutschen Sprache zu befleißigen ;-)
06:20:13 <planetmaker> I guess I like the older style :D
06:20:46 <NGC3982> I wish i had any idea of how that would look like.
06:21:10 <NGC3982> Yes, i wish i knew more german, and more about the german language.
06:21:39 <Markk> I now some phrases in German.
06:21:51 <Supercheese> Does German have some interesting rules about capitalizing nouns? I've been meaning to learn more about the language and have been wondering
06:22:01 <Markk> And I met a German girl the other day, and she asked what I could say in German.
06:22:09 <planetmaker> well, the sentence I just wrote... it definitely is not ordinary language style. It contains at least three words which are meanwhile nearly extinct in spoken language
06:22:28 <Supercheese> it seems that not only proper nouns end up capitalized
06:22:39 <planetmaker> NGC3982, basically same as pleasure or joy :-)
06:22:43 <Markk> "Ich hätte lust mit großen tieren"
06:22:53 <NGC3982> I named a local server at work "Schadenfreude".
06:23:37 <planetmaker> most I like the verb "sich befleißigen" :-D. Which roughly translates to "make use of"
06:24:07 <NGC3982> I had some german coffe with that name.
06:24:21 <planetmaker> NGC3982, Muckefuck is not real coffee. It's coffee substitute
06:24:26 <planetmaker> It's a difference ;-)
06:25:00 <NGC3982> Ah, like Nscaf, i guess.
06:25:51 <planetmaker> but not really coffee. Which at least is even in Nescafe
06:26:42 <NGC3982> That doesn't actually sound that nice.
06:27:09 <planetmaker> it does. But it's not a brand but a name for a poor thing really ;-)
06:27:17 <NGC3982> Speaking of german, and germans
06:27:29 *** LordPixaII has joined #openttd
06:27:33 <NGC3982> I have noticed something odd about communicating with german companies.
06:28:54 <planetmaker> even odd numbers are only prime when larger than the only truely odd prime ;-)
06:28:58 <NGC3982> In swede, while e-mailing everyone from salesmen to company owners, i notice that the effort put in spelling and correct capitalization decreases with rank or company relevance.
06:29:42 <NGC3982> The CEO doesn't even use personal greetings, and often emphazises the agenda with "!!?(&(?(".
06:30:02 <NGC3982> But after working with germans for some time now, i notice the exact opposite.
06:31:00 <planetmaker> it's a bit a sign of carelessness to be sloppy there, isn't it? It also doesn't help clarity of communication to allow slander there when you try to tell people stuff
06:31:56 <NGC3982> For my part, i try to use the language as correctly as possible, who-ever i write too.
06:32:54 <NGC3982> And yes, in my point of view: Doing e-mails like that is careless in both german and swedish.
06:33:11 <NGC3982> The problem for me is still the english though, as you can see.
06:33:18 <NGC3982> But that's more forgiving, i guess.
06:34:50 <Supercheese> If you measure your English against the average American's, then yes, it is very forgiving indeed ;)
06:35:32 <Supercheese> I am dismayed at the state of the language in this country
06:38:30 <NGC3982> Well, i notice that the germans and me have somewhat equal language skills
06:39:01 <NGC3982> Although, i speak more german than they speak english!
06:39:14 <NGC3982> Although, i speak more german than they speak swedish!
06:48:04 * NGC3982 prepare references to Midland cars from the sixties.
06:51:38 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
06:58:35 <Terkhen> mine's from china then, I guess
07:10:45 *** tom73129 has joined #openttd
07:25:20 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
07:29:08 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
08:14:40 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
08:18:54 *** Devroush has joined #openttd
08:41:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
08:57:02 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
09:33:18 *** argoneus has joined #openttd
09:50:15 *** sla_ro|vista has joined #openttd
11:11:41 *** chester_ has joined #openttd
11:20:45 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
11:24:19 *** marco313 has joined #openttd
11:29:02 *** Hyronymus has joined #openttd
11:31:11 *** ZxBiohazardZx has joined #openttd
11:31:56 <ZxBiohazardZx> is there a download location for "older" stables ?
11:32:01 <ZxBiohazardZx> im creating a scenario atm
11:32:15 <ZxBiohazardZx> and if i use the Chrill Patchpack then the 1.x.x stable users wont be able to join it
11:32:23 <ZxBiohazardZx> but if i make it on 1.2.0 then the CPP isnt accepting it
11:32:53 <ZxBiohazardZx> so is there a download for lets say 1.0.0 or 0.x.x to make scenario's (or a way to port my cpp-data into 1.x.x stable?)
11:33:05 <ZxBiohazardZx> aka how did .scn data change apart from version?
11:34:41 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
11:37:47 <lugo> ZxBiohazardZx: binaries.openttd.org
11:37:56 <ZxBiohazardZx> has older versions?
11:38:42 <ZxBiohazardZx> that still leaves me with the question of "would it be portable to back-port" an existing scenario/map to older/newer version by hacking its data somewhere?
11:38:58 <ZxBiohazardZx> or did .scn format change so insanely much that cross-porting over the versions truely is impossible?
12:22:40 *** ZxBiohazardZx has left #openttd
14:51:55 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
14:51:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
15:10:36 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
15:33:33 <Belugas> salut Rubidium :) thanks, you always bring me back to nice memories doing so ;)
15:56:40 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
16:24:20 <planetmaker> hm, was there an issue that not all music sets from all TTD versions are understood by openttd?
16:28:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it can't read TTD DOS music
16:33:02 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
16:33:37 <frosch123> evening everyone :)
17:00:08 <planetmaker> and I meant to quak... instead of random highlights
17:16:43 <frosch123> wow, both pm an me did not hit idlers :)
17:17:21 <pugi> i was downstairs eating dinner when you highlighted me
17:40:56 <Knogle> Hm, can GSGameSettings::SetValue make/save changes to openttd.cfg while a game is running?
17:42:26 <Knogle> because if you manually make changes in openttd.cfg while a game is running, it'll be changed back, afaik.
17:42:42 <Yexo> no, they can't change that at all
17:42:52 <Yexo> a gamescript can only change the config for the currently running game
17:43:05 <Yexo> openttd.cfg is only for new games
17:43:23 <Yexo> there are some exceptions, some settings are GUI only
17:43:35 <Yexo> if you'd change one of those via a GS the change would be saved in openttd.cfg
17:45:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24512 /trunk/src/lang/ (czech.txt luxembourgish.txt):
17:45:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 26 changes by Eskymak
17:45:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 7 changes by Phreeze
17:55:16 <Zuu> Though, in most cases it would be a good practice to not change GUI settings in a GS as IMHO, GUI settings should be up to the players to decide upon.
17:55:38 <frosch123> except for the tutorial :)
17:56:34 <Zuu> Even the tutorial acts upon what GUI settings that players choose rather than editing them.
17:57:19 <frosch123> gs virus: mess up all the settings :)
17:58:56 <planetmaker> evil frosch123, evil you! ;-)
18:01:02 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
18:01:47 <Eddi|zuHause> "this gamescript forbids you to make trees transparent"
18:02:09 <planetmaker> "this game script enforces TTD feeling" ;-)
18:02:48 <Eddi|zuHause> we can't have that, as some settings were removed :)
18:04:12 <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of TTD, anyone tried recreating the original german town name generator? whenever i load old TT(O/D) games, all the names are screwed up
18:10:13 <Knogle> Zuu: That's not what I wanted to changed though - I was wondering if I could set a random landscape or a random starting year for next game :)
18:26:47 *** Progman has joined #openttd
18:31:35 <Yexo> Knogle: you might be able to, but no guarantee: change the landscape/start year for the current game, then use "restart" instead of "newgame"
18:34:13 <Knogle> I have my doubts though.
18:34:52 <frosch123> if that works, then it is like the old climate cheat
18:35:05 <frosch123> so, quickly start a new game before it breaks the old one :)
18:35:50 <Yexo> "if it works, we'll fix it so it no longer works on 1.3" :p
18:36:37 <Yexo> it works from the console
18:36:45 <Yexo> so very likely also from a GS
18:36:51 <Yexo> a GS is not really the right place to change such things though
18:37:22 <Yexo> Knogle: how do you start a new game? Afaik a GS can't do that
18:40:21 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:42:22 <Rubidium> salut monsieur lenord
18:43:07 <Knogle> Yexo: don't think it can, no.. I was gonna do that manually to see.
18:43:28 <Yexo> so why change the settings via GS?
18:43:33 <Knogle> anyway, it won't let me change the landspace using GSGameSettings::SetValue
18:43:39 <Yexo> if you do that manually to you can change the newgame settings
18:44:43 <Knogle> but with GS, it could be changed to a random landscape, then use 'restart'
18:45:17 <frosch123> how would you trigger the gS?
18:45:33 <frosch123> you would have to plant a sign or something complicated
18:45:46 <Yexo> Knogle: you're using the wrong tool for the job
18:45:59 <Knogle> I know I am, I just wanted to test it :P
18:46:02 <planetmaker> frosch123, if you have an "eternal server" the script could modify settings, then admin port restarts after game end
18:46:04 <Yexo> making a small program that uses the admin port, or even a wrapper around the console are better ways
18:46:15 <Knogle> and planetmaker has a point
18:46:22 <frosch123> planetmaker: can admin port change settings?
18:46:23 <planetmaker> but doing that all by admin port is the much better choice
18:46:29 <Yexo> but if you use the admin port to restart, why not use it to change the settings?
18:46:34 <planetmaker> frosch123, I hope it can change newgame settings :-)
18:46:49 <planetmaker> but I'll be surprised, if it cannot
18:46:54 <Yexo> can't it send all rcon commands?
18:46:57 <planetmaker> after all it was designed to ^
18:47:06 <frosch123> and yes, the setting is like the cheat
18:47:14 <frosch123> it's is snowing in temperate :)
18:47:45 <Knogle> GSGameSettings::SetValue expects integer as value
18:47:59 <Knogle> so it can't set to "temperate"
18:48:06 <frosch123> same as via the console
18:48:18 <frosch123> "setting game_creation.landscape 1"
18:48:19 <planetmaker> console also doesn't accept text ;-)
18:48:45 <planetmaker> Knogle, look at your openttd.cfg
18:48:56 <planetmaker> there it gives you the accepted data type for each setting ;-)
18:49:06 <Knogle> its set to "landscape = temperate"
18:49:13 <planetmaker> hm, interesting :D
18:49:15 <frosch123> "listsettings" console command is more useful
18:49:25 <frosch123> esp. because it greps :)
18:50:30 <andythenorth> Yexo / planetmaker would you help me modify FIRS supplies mechanic for test purposes?
18:50:52 <Yexo> sure, modify it to do what exactly?
18:50:54 <Knogle> GSGameSettings.SetValue("landscape",0); and restart didn't work though.
18:51:45 <Knogle> and I know there's better ways to do, and it's not really important to do so, I just wondered if you could make a script that does exactly that ;)
18:53:18 <frosch123> Knogle: use the console to get the real setting name
18:53:27 <frosch123> the setting name is not "landscape"
18:53:37 <andythenorth> I should really be able to figure this out myself - but no sleep :P
18:54:04 <Knogle> GSGameSettings.IsValid("landscape") returns true :P
18:55:16 <andythenorth> industry production multiplier is 16 by default (just checked)
18:55:48 <andythenorth> however I use cb15F to vary it
18:55:54 <andythenorth> which is a bit more complicated
18:56:17 <frosch123> Knogle: oh, apparently the shortened name also works :o
18:56:18 <Yexo> Knogle: are you testing in SP or MP?
18:56:32 <Yexo> the "landscape" setting can only be changed in single-player modus
18:56:45 <planetmaker> sounds fun, andythenorth. I'll do a quick shopping stop for some breakfast stuff, then I'm back on that
18:57:07 <andythenorth> planetmaker Yexo thanks :)
18:57:29 <andythenorth> I meanwhile am writing a python script to calculate how much sleep I had recently
18:58:19 <planetmaker> but also sounds like ECS-like production changes ;-)
18:58:32 <frosch123> what's worse? having no sleep, or having enough sleep and still being tired?
18:58:43 <planetmaker> frosch123, the latter
18:58:56 <Yexo> having no sleep is easy to fix ;)
19:00:51 <andythenorth> planetmaker: it might be a bit more ECS like
19:00:55 <andythenorth> I think it might be simpler too
19:01:00 <andythenorth> testing will show :)
19:01:21 <andythenorth> it's a straight copy of how it works in Railroad Tycoon (if my memory is correct) :P
19:03:20 <Knogle> Yexo: Sorry, missed your question.. I was testing in SP.
19:09:24 *** LordPixaII has joined #openttd
19:13:44 <__ln__> oh, a star trek thing on google's front page.
19:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i must be a really bad trekky if i only recognize 4 out of 6 people
19:18:55 <Yexo> there are 2 more hidden behind the door
19:19:35 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i suppose you need javascript for that
19:21:30 *** dotwaffle has joined #openttd
19:22:08 <Zuu> Implementing a Goal::UpdateGoal, I assume it is not needed to be able to update the company ID or goal destination. Only text and the new "progress" field that I'm adding.
19:23:30 <Eddi|zuHause> hehe, tribbles :)
19:25:25 <frosch123> Zuu: yeah, for changing company you can as well delete and create
20:20:49 <Zuu> Should *all* script preconditions be enforced, even if it means that you must find thte goal struct from the pool and check a value that the CMD function will check without a unneeded pool lookup?
20:22:24 * andythenorth needs to install ply
20:22:42 <andythenorth> that is remarkably hard
20:27:08 <andythenorth> if setuptools is broken
20:27:18 <andythenorth> why does setuptools break so much :P
20:31:25 <Eddi|zuHause> use an os with a sane package manager
20:34:20 * andythenorth considers starting a Windows Vista VM for this
20:34:40 <andythenorth> the node.js package manager is pretty good
20:34:46 <andythenorth> maybe python should switch to it :P
20:44:53 <andythenorth> funniest option I could think of
20:44:55 <andythenorth> I don't have ME :P
20:47:40 *** Hyronymus has joined #openttd
20:54:14 <FLHerne> andythenorth: What's wrong with OS7? :P (other than minor program bugs causing hard crashes ;-) )
20:54:30 <andythenorth> does it run in a VM on intel? :P
20:55:25 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I believe there's an m68k emulator out there somewhere :-)
20:57:25 <FLHerne> The other option is to keep a stack of m68k and PPC laptops in a cupboard, of course :D
21:00:21 <andythenorth> let me know when you've compiled nmlc for PPC
21:00:29 <andythenorth> it should work, if you can get python running
21:01:45 <Eddi|zuHause> you need 2GB-ish of RAM to compile CETS
21:03:58 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
21:04:12 <FLHerne> That sounds fun. Perhaps when I get my PBG4 working again... :-)
21:04:33 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i should port the whole thing to NFO
21:04:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean i already do loads of processing outside NML anyway
21:06:38 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: nml takes that much memory?
21:06:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: yes, i presume just building up the syntax tree
21:07:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: it also spends most of the time in PLY code
21:07:35 <Yexo> I'll see what I can do about that
21:08:04 <Eddi|zuHause> (that is, after i took out all the template calculations)
21:15:07 <Zuu> Its maybe a bit rough on the edges so far as I just started with it a few hours ago.
21:15:18 <Zuu> For example I just use 40 pixels for the progress column.
21:15:36 <Zuu> Which for sure will fail if the font is too large.
21:19:15 <Zuu> Hmm, do we actually have any window that show tabular text that support font sizes?
21:19:34 <Zuu> Eg. both town and industry list cheat by not showing data in real columns.
21:21:04 <Zuu> Hmm, the economy window uses columns and at least the first one could in theory be very wide if a wide language + font is used.
21:21:07 *** argoneus has joined #openttd
21:28:56 <planetmaker> Zuu, I don't we exactly have that. To a degree the depot views are a gridded window
21:29:08 <planetmaker> but it's by all means not text only :-)
21:29:18 <planetmaker> and sizes there iirc are defined rather by sprite sizes
21:30:00 <Zuu> I figured out that the infrastructure respect the string length for its first column. And it being not too complicated gives some help on how to do it.
21:30:34 <Zuu> Basically, you have to override a Window member and there test-render all strings to get the width of them to compute the column withs.
21:31:38 <Zuu> Something I think that I will save for another day.
21:45:41 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
21:53:17 *** Markavian has joined #openttd
22:34:16 *** Devroush2 has joined #openttd
22:42:41 *** Zeknurn has joined #openttd
22:42:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: i've read code like that in the timetable window patches, back when i tried to move it to the new window system
22:43:23 *** player23 has joined #openttd
22:47:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: should be not much more than "foreach (entry) { width max= GetStringWidth(entry); } widget->width = width;"
22:52:56 *** Devroush has joined #openttd
23:01:55 *** Devroush has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵