IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-08-07
⏴ go to previous day
00:01:01 <drac_boy> nice, I never liked always-empty wagons at times
00:01:33 <drac_boy> I was actually going to modify woodscenic/noch people for some cab crews ... still not sure about the passenger wagons yet but its plausible too
00:02:13 <drac_boy> and btw I think a few marklin hoppers were actually operational with the right grit of a load (not sure if 'grit' is right word tho?)
00:02:59 *** michi_cc has joined #openttd
00:02:59 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v michi_cc
00:05:52 *** michi_cc has joined #openttd
00:05:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v michi_cc
00:08:48 <drac_boy> elukka I think I'll pretty much stick to covered wagons and the so tho
00:09:11 <drac_boy> after all I don't quite think there was much open loads beside timbers that could had plied the germany/swizterland market borders
00:10:36 *** michi_cc has joined #openttd
00:10:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v michi_cc
00:11:35 *** michi_cc has joined #openttd
00:11:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v michi_cc
00:13:47 <drac_boy> I'll have to check box for actual #
00:15:44 <drac_boy> its not a small tank loco but its not big tender neither .. kinda works nicely for a small layout after all no? :)
00:18:03 <drac_boy> btw elukka you want know what I kinda find odd in term of huge drive tires tho?
00:20:14 <drac_boy> doesn't exactly look like it was made for highspeed so ... wonder whats with these very big tires
00:20:43 <Elukka> diesel and electric locomotives usually don't have very large wheels, fast or not
00:22:13 <drac_boy> and the body shape is ... well .. to me rather odd :)
00:22:24 <drac_boy> the long hood suddenly ends into a small low nose cabinet
00:26:41 <drac_boy> elukka I've kinda liked russia diesels a bit...they're almost too much like the old north america alcos ... smokes a lot :P
00:28:01 <drac_boy> and elukka...to watch one exit a tunnel with a heavy freight that even have more as banker ... well lets say the tunnel portal is going to smoke for another few more minutes after the train has already left
00:28:11 <drac_boy> crazy old engines :)
00:28:32 <Elukka> i've seen a video of a russian diesel belching out flames and tons of smoke
00:28:36 <Elukka> not sure why it did that!
00:29:15 <drac_boy> elukka...probably too much oil getting through but who's caring? its still running so just ignore the smoke :)
00:30:21 <drac_boy> elukka it reminds me of a uk photo I saw somewhere once .. someone had a bit silly humor in the timing of the photo being taken....
00:31:08 <drac_boy> "a diesel locomotive that tries to think its a steam locomotive" ... guess what the real reason was? excessive long blowoff of the steam heating boiler coupled with little visible diesel exhaust
00:31:16 <Elukka> here's an interesting thing...
00:31:29 <Elukka> with locomotives pulling or pushing on each one
00:32:37 <Elukka> bottom of the rocket, with 30 engines...
00:33:00 <Elukka> that was the soviet moon rocket
00:33:02 <Elukka> never worked, unfortunately
00:34:21 <Elukka> i do believe that's the biggest railway wagon that ever existed :P
00:35:09 <Elukka> the Saturn V had equally fatal flaws as the soviet rocket, the difference was they had the time and money to work them out
00:35:53 <Elukka> when they were working on the Saturn V they didn't know if you could have such huge engines without the rocket shaking itself apart
00:43:15 <drac_boy> btw elukka I still have to think about it but I mean I know some big trains did get helpers at times but I still wonder if it could work on smaller ones too
00:43:27 <drac_boy> after all the layout is set by the mountain so...there'll be grades for sure
00:43:47 <drac_boy> might be interesting if I was to use the br24 and other locomotive together
00:44:10 <Pinkbeast> In UK practice all kinds of trains got bankers sometimes
00:44:29 <drac_boy> Pinkbeast I was thinking of germany but thank you miss.youhavethelickeyincline :P
00:45:50 <Pinkbeast> It's a pity Big Bertha did not survive into preservation. :-)
00:46:31 <Pinkbeast> Likewise the U1 but basically I think that about anything of Gresley's that's been lost.
00:46:49 <drac_boy> Pinkbeast nor were the operational issues with the only LNER mallets ever resolved neither .. the crazy thing is someone said that there was actually at least one instance of where two mallets had problems and had to be helped by the Bretha resulting in a train with 20+ drive axles count!
00:47:21 <drac_boy> eight plus eight plus ten (or was it eight on the Bretha? I forgot now) .. do the math
00:47:37 <Pinkbeast> Bertha was an 0-10-0
00:48:47 <Pinkbeast> ... the LNER built divided-drive locomotives but I wasn't aware they built any Mallets, do you know the class?
00:49:28 <Pinkbeast> Different cylinders power different axles
00:49:36 <drac_boy> btw I take back a bit .. wikipedia mentioned it too .. "On one occasion it was banking a train hauled by LMS Garratt No. 47972 which stalled on the bank and was rescued by "Big Bertha", resulting in the formation of a train with nineteen driving axles.
00:49:48 <drac_boy> 19 axles .. who'll had ever heard of a uk train with that? :)
00:50:01 <Elukka> think i'm gonna go get some sleep
00:50:06 <Pinkbeast> Ah, yeah, the LMS Garratts. But they were, not to be indelicate, a bit crap. :-(
00:50:09 <drac_boy> bye elukka..tell me more tomorrow ok? :)
00:50:27 <Pinkbeast> 19 axles> er well modern EMUs :-)
00:50:47 <drac_boy> pinkbeast .. at least peacock-beyer was much more well known and more reliable in africa on the other hand :)
00:50:57 <drac_boy> especially K1 and K4 as well
00:51:25 <Pinkbeast> Four WD 2-10-0s or 9Fs would get you to 20 axles. :-)
00:51:36 <drac_boy> pinkbeast and of course theres that 2-8-4+4-8-2 that even did the royal trains from time to time too
00:51:56 <drac_boy> white-painted coaches too I recall
00:52:37 <drac_boy> pinkbeast...funny thing is I did read a bit about these 9F classed 2-10-0's .. they were interesting locomotive
00:52:57 <Pinkbeast> The 9Fs are lovely; it's a pity they can't run on national rail.
00:53:00 <drac_boy> not to mention that on at least one railroad they were given free rein at doing express passenger trains :)
00:53:15 <drac_boy> thats more than 80km/h for these axles :p
00:53:26 <Pinkbeast> "One railroad" - er, they were built by BR, we only had one railway. :-)
00:53:35 <drac_boy> pinkbeast..I meant pre-br silly
00:53:49 <Pinkbeast> The 9Fs didn't exist pre-BR.
00:54:07 <Pinkbeast> I feel we may be talking at cross purposes.
00:54:26 <drac_boy> mm well apparently when they tried to do express trains on one particular line they were quickly stripped of that duty .. but at a later date somewhere else they got pressed into doing it for a while
00:54:30 <Pinkbeast> The 9Fs are widely reputed to have done 80-90mph on pax trains before the practice was "officially discouraged".
00:54:39 <drac_boy> mm yeah thats probably it
00:55:14 <Pinkbeast> ... as the story has it, BR managers would get out, walk to the front expecting to find a shiny A4 or Merchant Navy, not a filthy-looking 9F.
00:55:43 <drac_boy> btw that same magazine .. I don't think I got it anymore but anyway ... there was a short mention of Dreadnough coaches .. and how the public did not like them so much. they had a smooth curved roof (as much as modern stocks are now) rather than the raised vent line
00:55:53 <drac_boy> was dated like 1950-1970s for that photo I think
00:56:04 <drac_boy> still wonder what was up with that name and if it was offical or not
00:56:10 <Pinkbeast> But you'd find 9Fs all over the network - they were surprisingly good at mixed traffic, given their intended heavy freight use.
00:56:56 <drac_boy> pinkbeast...a case of "designed for one duty, found to be just as home on another duty" thinge?
00:57:46 <Pinkbeast> Well, a bit. I mean, the discouragement of fast running wasn't just killjoys; the valve gear was never designed for that sort of speed, and was taking a beating.
00:57:53 <drac_boy> because mind you the UP FEF (thats basically four-eight-four aka 4-8-4, eh?) were designed for express power but in the late dieselization years up kinda found them to be really good freight workhorses by surprise
00:58:32 <Pinkbeast> But a lot of the BR designs were quite flexible; the Brittannias were OK on freight and basically killed the BR light Pacific design by being too useful.
00:59:12 <Pinkbeast> Apparently some Americans want to rebuild an old express locomotive and have a crack at the 125mph steam record, which should be interesting.
00:59:29 <drac_boy> and at least one case of a Frisco freight locomotive having to be used in a pinch for a failing locomotive and it made a surprising work of the delayed schedules right out of the station that soon a few of their class were rebooked for passenger trains instead
01:00:26 <drac_boy> someone probably was thinking something along "jeeze that locomotive sure moved the train fast it didn't even have any delays left....lets clean up some of the spare ones for passenger duty"
01:01:01 <drac_boy> pinkbeast btw what do you even think of any Ivatt steam locomotives?
01:01:08 <Pinkbeast> If you're planning to thrash the fleet until it's gone, you have a lot more freedom - it's why a lot of the Merchant Navies turned in crazy speeds before dieselification.
01:01:34 <Pinkbeast> He's those old GNR 4-4-0s, isn't he? Not many left.
01:02:26 <Pinkbeast> Oh, wait, 4-4-2s mainly
01:03:08 <drac_boy> I kinda was thinking more like Ivatt 2-6-0 ... it sorta has that "mainline locomotive but not with a fat-diameter boiler blotching out the cab" look to me
01:03:19 <Pinkbeast> But boilers were just smaller then...
01:03:23 <drac_boy> but its no weak locomotive neither which is pretty much the point
01:03:44 <drac_boy> I think someone refered to it as Mickey Mouse at least once tho
01:04:56 <Pinkbeast> I think more generally if I wanted to be a famous locomotive designer I would try and avoid my successor being Gresley. :-/
01:05:12 <Pinkbeast> (Or Stanier, or Chapelon.)
01:06:01 <Pinkbeast> Or Churchward, or... oh, dear, this is getting out of hand.
01:06:23 <drac_boy> heh well tbh I kinda am not really into big locomotives
01:06:32 <drac_boy> not to mention the cost it'll take, to our own tho :p
01:08:44 <drac_boy> pinkbeast and btw its not only steamers .. there were some usa railroads that had decent money but choose to stick to smaller units which could make up for rather interesting non-class1 trains :)
01:09:07 <Pinkbeast> Ah, I'm one of those "world ended in 1968" types. :-)
01:09:36 <drac_boy> eg who else could want to run a single freight train that had F7A-F7B-F7B-GP15-RS2 on the head?
01:09:57 <drac_boy> anyone else would had just gotten two modern GP40 instead
01:10:34 <drac_boy> even Rio Grande was known for some trains with FA-FB-GP-FB-FA "insert in middle" locomotive consist too
01:11:09 <drac_boy> pinkbeast btw let me tell you something in case you didn't know...
01:11:13 <Pinkbeast> I've never understood their reluctance to use banking engines.
01:12:11 <drac_boy> if you really want to prove having both 'steam locomotive' and 'containers' in the same sentence ... just look to JNR .. a lot of containers-on-flatcars steam hauled freights happened for many years :)
01:12:30 <drac_boy> everywhere else..steam was about gone by time containers came around, go figure with japan
01:16:18 <drac_boy> pinkbeast and which of that reminds me of one little thing to show you..
01:16:30 <Pinkbeast> Being in Switzerland and seeing mixed non-containerised goods come through in the evening was odd, too.
01:21:40 <drac_boy> hm bit harder than I thought, give me a moment :)
01:25:17 <drac_boy> they pretty much thought two lights was better than a single (centered) one ... sometimes given the nickname "two eyes" due to its own effect naturally
01:25:41 <Pinkbeast> I was half expecting a humungous snowplough.
01:26:29 <drac_boy> heh well pinkbeast...they had plow cabooses (a bit alike to north america's mind you) for steamers ... and modern snowblowers in both pushed and self-powered shapes for diesels/electrics
01:27:01 <drac_boy> the self-powered ones are interesting.. they have blowers on both ends ... and you usually find them around station areas which makes sense .. being able to scoot back n forth :)
01:29:07 <Pinkbeast> I'd better be calling it a night, I fear.
01:29:27 <drac_boy> its blower on front but totally-adjustable plower on rear (which is raised now yeah)
01:29:48 <drac_boy> the side flaps on the blowers are so it can clear narrow platform track and wide non-platform tracks without delay... clever
01:29:53 <drac_boy> mm have a good sleep ok? :)
02:02:41 *** Runner11 has joined #openttd
04:15:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
04:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
04:57:10 *** FlyingFoX has joined #openttd
05:08:27 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
05:09:42 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
05:46:51 *** LordPixaII has joined #openttd
05:58:18 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
06:00:47 *** Rhamphoryncus has joined #openttd
06:05:24 *** LordPixaII has joined #openttd
06:07:52 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd
06:07:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker
06:08:38 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd
06:08:38 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd
06:09:08 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
06:09:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Terkhen
06:09:22 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd
06:09:38 *** V453000 has joined #openttd
06:10:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Yexo
06:31:56 *** Markavian has joined #openttd
06:44:02 *** Devroush has joined #openttd
07:02:23 *** telanus has joined #openttd
07:12:14 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
07:29:06 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
07:31:46 *** Rhamphoryncus has joined #openttd
07:33:03 *** telanus1 has joined #openttd
07:36:39 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
07:37:32 *** telanus2 has joined #openttd
07:45:44 <NGC3982> That's a normal plower?
07:58:33 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
08:00:06 *** ccfreak2k has joined #openttd
08:01:42 *** telanus2 is now known as telanus
08:02:53 *** TGYoshi has joined #openttd
08:32:24 <peter_> How to kill your CPU: rsync from one encrypted partition to another...
08:45:23 <Eddi|zuHause> only if you have an inferior CPU
08:53:58 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: I read that in a Klingon voice..
08:54:55 <peter_> Well, it's going as fast as it can, the partitions are on USB, so lots of IO wait...
08:56:02 <NGC3982> I love my USB WD NAS.
08:56:06 <NGC3982> It's big and lucious.
08:56:18 <NGC3982> And yet, the USB holds it back SO much.
08:57:18 <NGC3982> It's a USB connected "NAS".
08:57:27 <peter_> If it's USB connected then it's not NAS.
08:58:29 <NGC3982> Sure it can. The fact that it's connectable by network doesn't change just because there is a USB circuit connector on it. ;)
08:59:17 <peter_> It's only Network Attached Storage if it's Network Attached...
08:59:42 <peter_> In which case using the USB side is silly :-)
08:59:51 <peter_> But probably convenient in some cases.
08:59:51 <NGC3982> Yes, of course. That was my point.
09:52:48 *** Devroush has joined #openttd
10:17:12 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
10:20:25 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd
10:38:25 <drac_boy> hi terkhen anything new? :)
10:39:16 <Terkhen> vacations are good in that way
10:50:22 * drac_boy is just looking for some online used markets aside to looking at quiet irc :p
11:33:46 <drac_boy> btw found something interesting...apparently one of the marklin steamer I have was probably produced for 47 years....heh fun :)
11:36:37 <kais58> is there a mailing list of the security vulns I could subscribe to?
11:41:45 <planetmaker> individual linux distros have their own, though.
11:42:14 <planetmaker> and possibly there's one for the cve itself
11:43:53 <kais58> hmm, was hoping to not get them for everything else, I build it myself
11:45:35 <blathijs> planetmaker: Hmm, don't we announce CVE's on the openttd mailing list? Would make sense to do so, I guess
11:45:52 <planetmaker> blathijs: do we ever use a mailing list?
11:46:09 <planetmaker> (and who reads that anyway?)
11:46:31 <planetmaker> I haven't encountered a mailing list being talked about in the last 4 years
11:47:00 <planetmaker> which is as long as would have expected to be able to nice that we have such thing ;-)
11:47:31 <blathijs> yeah, well, but we _do_ have one, so might as well do announcments there ;-p
11:48:01 <planetmaker> we do have? where?
11:48:13 <planetmaker> and you want to announce stuff there?
11:49:44 <planetmaker> what's the address of the mailing list you think about anyway?
11:50:49 * drac_boy kinda prefers forums rather than groups/maillists :-|
11:51:19 <planetmaker> and tbh, for announcement nowadays twitter is rather the medium of choice than a mailing list. Or a website with an RSS / atom feed. I *think*
11:51:33 <drac_boy> I'll take rss on that one tho
11:51:53 <planetmaker> I actually wondered that there's no rss/atom on that page I linked....
11:52:47 <kais58> well any of those would be great for me :)
11:53:50 <planetmaker> well. there isn't currently. And security bulletins will be published when there's a fix but not before. So if you run a server, just make sure to have always the latest
11:54:28 <planetmaker> and read the changelog :-)
11:57:38 <kais58> but is the a way I could be notified when there is a security bulletin?
11:58:42 <planetmaker> and as said: we won't publish that until we release a version which fixes it. If you read the changelogs of releases (and RCs) you'll see it
11:59:20 <planetmaker> there we also mention the CVEs usually (if any)
11:59:50 <kais58> is there a notification I could get of when there are new releases then?
12:00:50 <kais58> or even just an RSS of the front page news?
12:01:30 <planetmaker> an hour ago I'd have sworn there is such feed for our main page. But I don't find it
12:01:42 <planetmaker> there's only on our repositories
12:02:51 <planetmaker> which you might grep for 'release'. But that's not convenient then either
12:05:41 <planetmaker> as such: I understand your desire. But we currently have nothing to feed it. We'll take it as suggestion
12:07:14 <kais58> thanks anyway, I'll see about subscribing to the svn and filtering it a bit when I get chance
12:21:31 <planetmaker> on the years-ago abandoned sourceforge page :-)
12:22:16 <blathijs> But I thought there was another one at some point, but I'm probably mistaken
12:24:43 <planetmaker> there might have been... but before my time :-) you're the 'old dude' here between the two of us :-)
12:25:36 <planetmaker> he, archive of that mailing list shows that there's 3 postings in 2005 and 11 in 2004 :-)
12:27:04 <planetmaker> but... interesting e-mails :-)
12:28:18 <Terkhen> kais58: OpenTTD main page has an RSS feed for news, I'm suscribed to it
12:28:58 <kais58> Terkhen: whats the url for it?
12:29:29 <Terkhen> no idea, I just put www.openttd.org in my rss reader and it manages to find it
12:30:46 <kais58> Terkhen: thanks a lot for that :)
12:34:57 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: FYI, our frontpage has an RSS feed
12:35:02 <TrueBrain> any decent browser will detect it ;)
12:35:24 <TrueBrain> (there is no link, as it is redundant ;))
12:35:59 <planetmaker> I was looking for the link, yes
12:36:09 <planetmaker> not seeing any, I assumed it#s not present. My fault
12:36:17 <planetmaker> (How do people know about that then, though?)
12:36:32 <TrueBrain> like I said, modern browsers tell you about it :)
12:37:52 <drac_boy> planetmaker I agree, no link = no rss
12:37:59 <planetmaker> my ancient FF14 doesn't exactly tell me, TrueBrain
12:38:23 <TrueBrain> odd; FF was one of the first which tells you when an RSS/Atom feed is on a page, and allows you to subscribe to it
12:38:23 <planetmaker> though it seems to offer the option to retrieve it, when I go to the feed option in the menu
12:38:35 <planetmaker> but no exactly visible indicator that the website supports it
12:38:56 <drac_boy> truebrain I use a seperate dedicated rss reader app .. especially considering it could remember older mesages for reference anyway
12:38:57 <kais58> all you'd need is the little RSS icon at the bottom of the page to let people know
12:39:05 <drac_boy> so I need an actual url to add a rss feed anyhow
12:39:15 <TrueBrain> normally browsers present you with an RSS indication in the URL
12:39:23 <TrueBrain> like said, redundant to tell abou tit again ;)
12:39:36 <TrueBrain> drac_boy: if your RSS app is decent, you can just add www.openttd.org ;)
12:39:37 <glx> planetmaker: right to the address bar
12:39:39 <TrueBrain> it is the beauty about it :)
12:39:52 <drac_boy> truebrain..it actually looks for explict rss address per rfc
12:40:00 <drac_boy> its not a dumb-users app
12:40:07 <planetmaker> glx: nope. Not there.
12:40:09 <TrueBrain> drac_boy: per RFC, that got extended by allowing link alternate ;)
12:40:18 <kais58> TrueBrain: I could and it wold probably find it, but i didn't know there was one to find
12:40:40 <drac_boy> truebrain theres really none.. xml file is xml file .. it needs to be linked to in some way
12:40:44 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I wonder when FF started to hide that then .. it always annoyed me :P
12:40:47 <drac_boy> unless you wanted to use iframe which is..rather dumb :)
12:41:46 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: indeed, latest FF no longer has this overly visual indication ther eis an RSS feed
12:42:24 <planetmaker> That you mentioned it, I *do* remember seeing that symbol there in some (earlier) FF versions
12:42:47 <TrueBrain> all sane browsers did; it is the reason many websites removed their own indication
12:42:54 <TrueBrain> so I wonder when that changed again ....
12:43:04 <TrueBrain> or maybe more to the point: why?
12:43:16 <TrueBrain> they made RFCs to describe how sites should tell browsers about it etc
12:43:42 <drac_boy> truebrain wheres a rfc to explain how a non-www rss reader can work tho? :)
12:43:50 <planetmaker> I mean... sure, I have a few (though not many) plug-ins. So maybe it shows for some people. But not for me
12:44:50 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: but it's good that I didn't imagine seeing it on our page :-)
12:45:06 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: after opening FF, I was starting to see things too (or at least, a lack thereof)
12:45:16 <planetmaker> the browser just hides it... I was already starting to wonder why we removed it from our page :-)
12:45:33 <TrueBrain> we never had it on the page btw; when designing th epage, browsers showed it ;)
12:45:48 <planetmaker> what browser do you use?
12:46:33 <planetmaker> yes, I recall seeing that somewhere there... but I didn't. That's why I thought it's not there (anymore)
12:46:41 <TrueBrain> glx: hmm, that is interesting
12:46:47 <TrueBrain> why doesn't FF13 and FF14 show it (to me)
12:47:11 <glx> IIRC it was present in other versions too
12:49:40 <glx> I guess it should be possible to add it via toolbar personalisation menu
12:50:46 <glx> I remember it used to be an icon inside the address bar
12:50:55 <TrueBrain> on the left, I remember
12:50:59 <TrueBrain> often misclicked :P
12:51:09 <glx> it was on the right for me
12:51:23 <planetmaker> glx: in the address bar is exactly where I recall seeing it previously
12:52:41 <TrueBrain> ah, okay, only Firefox and Safari implemented the metatag ..
12:53:25 <TrueBrain> and so FF is no longer default to show ... annoying :P
12:54:59 <TrueBrain> owh, and IE supports it, but who uses IE :P
13:03:14 <TrueBrain> okay, they removed it (by default) because they consider it non-important information that 'bugs' the user (they = FF)
13:03:20 <TrueBrain> chrome doesn't add it for similar reasons
13:03:28 <TrueBrain> no information about IE and Safari
13:03:34 <TrueBrain> kewl, how the web changes in 3 years :P
13:04:39 <TrueBrain> their polite way of saying that the auto-discovery stuff is dead
13:06:41 <TrueBrain> haha, the 'new' way of doing it: make a file called atom.xml .. all Search Engines find it, and some browsers too ...
13:08:57 <TrueBrain> owh well ... explains why you couldn't find it planetmaker ;)
13:09:06 <TrueBrain> deprecated .. obsolete ... call it what ever you like :P
13:09:30 <planetmaker> seems that stuff changes...
13:09:46 <planetmaker> probably a reason in FF's and chrome's fast release cycles
13:09:52 <NGC3982> <@planetmaker> seems that stuff changes
13:10:09 <planetmaker> thanks for that highlight
13:10:22 <NGC3982> I just read that line, right after i read the current stock statistics.
13:11:00 <NGC3982> As William Blake would have put it, 'For some, a dagger to the side is not enough'.
13:11:37 <NGC3982> PM: Yeah, sorry. I think had to let that out.
13:41:33 *** mahmoud has joined #openttd
13:55:48 *** glx is now known as Guest2150
14:51:32 <agaran> is there some way to move up/down graphics of cars in firs/ecs few pixels? or that require rather serious work?
14:52:24 <agaran> without ecs/firs loaded engine and cars line on same (somewhat raised above line in depot), with, engine remain on same height as far as i can tell, but cars are lower
14:53:39 <agaran> opengfx if that matter, 1.2.1 version
14:55:17 <Rubidium> what other NewGRFs are you using? As I doubt OpenGFX is the provider of the engine/wagons
14:56:21 <Rubidium> as to me this sounds like a bug in the NewGRF that provides the engines/wagons that only triggers for certain cargos, i.e. the cargos of firs/ecs
14:56:27 <agaran> i mean that jubilee is rised above with or without ECS/FIRS, but cars like passenger carriage change
14:57:29 <agaran> bigger train depot, logic engine, modern waypoint, reduced passenger, ECS/FIRS + cargoset from ECS, plus raise landscaping costs
14:57:55 <agaran> all other nonconflicting ecs vectors, town and so on as well
14:58:03 <agaran> but ecs cargoset adds cars i think
15:05:14 <Rubidium> I would suspect that the ECS & FIRS vehicle set has badly aligned vehicles
15:06:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
15:17:05 <agaran> Rubidium: any way that user without grf knowledge can fix it,?
15:18:32 <Ammler> I would report the issue on tt-forums
15:19:01 <agaran> Ammler: i quite dont believe that i am first who noticed :-)
15:19:28 <Ammler> well, nobody else knows about that issue
15:27:55 <agaran> this is with ecs/firs loaded
15:31:07 <peter_> That's caused by a mix of different vehicle sets using different offsets.
15:31:47 <peter_> IIRC OpenGFX has its offsets wrong.
15:31:55 <peter_> (Compared to standard TTD graphics)
15:32:37 <agaran> ok, so not ecs/firs bug, but rather opengfx difference, using dos/windows graphics fixes issue as well?
15:33:24 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
15:35:41 <agaran> but anyway it sounds like something i am not able to fix easilly
15:36:03 <peter_> Probably not. Switching to TTD graphics would 'solve' it, I suppose.
15:37:37 <Ammler> you could report to opengfx then...
15:38:47 <planetmaker> agaran: Neither ECS nor FIRS provide vehicles. And default vehicles don't carry their cargos. So it's another 3rd NewGRF which provides the wagons
15:38:49 <agaran> I see, thank you for explanation
15:39:35 <planetmaker> though there's a NewGRF which might have a name like ECS/FIRS cargo wagons or so.
15:39:41 <planetmaker> so it would need fixing that
15:40:03 <agaran> planetmaker: i typed names all newgrfs i have loaded besides ECS* ones from which i have loaded all nonconflicting ones (basic vs basic II conflic, i have II one)
15:40:04 <planetmaker> as you suspect yourself :-)
15:40:15 <planetmaker> yeah, reading back as I type :-)
15:40:38 <agaran> at first i need to learn how to code grfs, and i suspect thats long story,
15:40:55 <planetmaker> depends on how far you want to go
15:42:08 *** Markavian` has joined #openttd
15:43:10 <agaran> planetmaker: no idea really, at least now, probably i should read some more about grfs and possibilities there before trying to decide
15:47:00 <peter_> Subject: [SECURITY] [DSA 2524-1] openttd security update
15:55:15 <frosch123> why? because it also talks about the cve from january?
15:56:25 <SpComb> peter_: the software you are currently running on your PC has undiscovered security issues in it
15:57:03 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd
15:57:40 <peter_> frosch123, because it appears in the list of security alerts I have to review for work...
16:18:24 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
16:30:16 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
16:55:35 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
16:55:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
17:30:04 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
17:45:16 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r24460 /trunk/src/lang/luxembourgish.txt:
17:45:16 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:16 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 26 changes by Phreeze
18:39:15 <NGC3982> Hmz, i forgot to remove computer players before starting a server
18:39:19 <NGC3982> can i remove then with rcon?
18:42:20 <Eddi|zuHause> stop_ai, but you cannot prevent new ones from starting
18:42:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to load the game in single player, change the setting, and restart the server
18:55:54 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
19:01:06 *** Chris_Booth[ph] has joined #openttd
19:04:07 *** Chris_Booth[ph] has quit IRC
19:04:07 *** Chris_Booth[ph] has joined #openttd
19:18:50 *** Chris_Booth[ph] has quit IRC
19:40:47 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd
19:41:42 *** Hayeswood has joined #openttd
19:42:46 <Hayeswood> hi all iv jus t downloaded opentt iv got 4 brithish rail trains where can i get mere thanks
19:43:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Hayeswood: check the online content download from the main menu
19:44:08 <Eddi|zuHause> (you have to activate the NewGRFs separately after downloading, and then start a new game)
19:44:10 <Hayeswood> ok i have a go now i let you know how i get on
19:46:05 <Alberth> Is it useful to combine several newgrfs with the same goal?
19:47:43 <drac_boy> hey Eddi|zuHause just wanted ask you something if you didn't mind, generally what was a commuter train like routes-and-stations wise in germany?
19:48:14 <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean?
19:49:10 <drac_boy> well I guess that was maybe a bit too generic .. I mean what kind of routes would commuter trains run on (obviously not a 700km city-to-city link)
19:54:33 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
19:59:34 <Eddi|zuHause> most of them just run on mainline tracks, only in few large cities they get dedicated tracks
20:01:23 <Hayeswood> iv got the BROS - Brittish raill open ttd set prerelease
20:02:48 <Hayeswood> and iv downloaded the uk railway set and the add on set but it wont let me aadd them
20:02:55 <drac_boy> so I guess that eg in the middle of berlin it would had been a mix of frequent commuters with the various local/express trains .. then out in the skirt of city theres still some commuter service but mostly locals then out in the country its pretty much almost no commuter trains anymore
20:03:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Hayeswood: you can only add one of those, not both. and you have to add it from the main menu, you cannot do it in a game
20:04:16 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: in berlin you have dedicated tracks for commuter trains (with 3rd rail) and normal tracks for the local and express trains
20:04:39 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: almost all routes in berlin are 4 tracks
20:04:58 <Hayeswood> iv tryed doing that and it say it is incompatible with this version of openTTD
20:05:01 <FLHerne> Hayeswood: You can add both, but the drawing style/costs won't match well
20:05:16 <Yexo> Hayeswood: so which version of openttd are you running?
20:05:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Hayeswood: oh, then your OpenTTD version is probably too old
20:05:24 <FLHerne> Hayeswood: Which version are you using? Current UKRS need 1.2.0 or late
20:05:25 <drac_boy> allright, thanks for the help Eddi|zuHause
20:05:44 <drac_boy> 3rd rail .. I'm guessing s-bahn? :)
20:05:57 <drac_boy> (or berlin s-bahn if you're picky on name)
20:05:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Hayeswood: you can get 1.2.1 from the website
20:06:07 <FLHerne> Hayeswood: Then you need 1.2.1 :P
20:06:35 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: yes, that's what commuter trains are usually called in germany
20:07:43 <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause I actually kinda like these older berlin s-bahn cars..a little boxy maybe but the cream/red (or is it yellow/red?) paintjob does a nice job of breaking that up nevertheless
20:08:34 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: there were different liveries
20:10:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's yellow
20:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a much lighter cream livery in the 80's
20:12:16 <drac_boy> I think these are pretty much all retired by now last I know, but at least one museum still has a complete set in working order for special events or other needs nevertheless
20:14:56 <drac_boy> hmm say do you know if that Talgo-built night train is actually not ever running anymore? its the one with the articulated single-axles cars yeah
20:15:30 <drac_boy> I've always seen models of these once in a while, seem they're still popular on layouts after all go figure :)
20:17:00 * drac_boy thinks thats the last train question for a while now anyhow
20:19:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
20:20:23 <Alberth> Yexo: want to do some sprites? we have plenty :)
20:21:14 <Yexo> that'd require me to actually do something instead of offering help and waiting for you and rb to complete it :p
20:21:57 <Yexo> what do I need to checkout?
20:23:02 <drac_boy> hmm all this DRG SVT varieties is a bit confusing and interesting at same time :-s
20:23:15 <Yexo> I've started cloning, but this is probably going to take a really long time
20:23:44 <Yexo> still don't have a decent internet connection at home, so I won't be doing any work this evening (as in, the clone won't finish in time)
20:23:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea about talgo-based trains
20:25:48 <Alberth> zbuild has 3 subrepos, zbase (the sprites), opengfx (8bpp graphics), and zbasebuild (copy of the opengfx nml files with 32bpp about 1/2 of the cases)
20:29:03 <Alberth> hmm, zbasebuild is actually much smaller
20:29:30 <Alberth> there is a set baseset grfs + the nml sprite caches there too
20:30:28 <Yexo> 5 or 6 minutes for opengfx, times 20, will be done within two hours :p
20:30:45 <Alberth> 2MB zbasebuild probably
20:31:07 <Yexo> as I said: I won't be doing any actual work this evening
20:31:14 <Hayeswood> iv downloaded the 1.2.1 version and it allowing to add the packs but when igo to play them in the game and its comes up with this messege a fatal newGRF errer has occurred UKRS2 must be loaded before this grf
20:31:48 <Alberth> Yexo: thanks for preparing then :)
20:32:20 <Alberth> Hayeswood: that's pretty clear, isn't it?
20:33:31 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
20:36:15 <FLHerne> Hayeswood: UKRS2+ needs to be below UKRS2 in the list
20:54:38 <drac_boy> what doing so far in uk? :)
20:56:01 <drac_boy> just being lazy then?
20:56:01 <FLHerne> Trying to turn a set of shelves into a desk, redrawing more CHIPS tiles...
20:56:16 <FLHerne> Mostly just casually playing computer games though :P
20:56:19 <drac_boy> heh..oh yeah these sloped tiles again....are you even getting anywhere? :P
20:57:04 <FLHerne> Very slowly. The lighting is fiddly :-(
20:59:03 * drac_boy is still slowly progressing on figuring out train formations aside to sorting out two new mail orders
21:01:49 <Hayeswood> i belive it a southern 377 train
21:03:38 *** Hayeswood has joined #openttd
21:07:56 <FLHerne> Hayeswood: Those are in UKRS2 I think
21:08:32 <drac_boy> someone need to get a better client :p
21:19:15 <Yexo> is there a list of sprites that still needs to be done or do I need to look at the source for that?
21:19:28 <Eddi|zuHause> you have 40 minutes of today left to do something now :)
21:20:09 * drac_boy has like a bit over 5 hours of 'today' left :p
21:20:27 <Rubidium> Yexo: I think there are some issues with the industries, so I'd leave those for now
21:21:02 <Yexo> I'll see what is still left tomorrow evening
21:21:07 <Rubidium> other than that, I just pushed some stuff
21:21:30 <Yexo> or morning actually, as I need to stay at home to wait for the ziggo engineer to come fix my tv/internet cable
21:22:29 <Rubidium> let me guess... you couldn't connect, they blamed you for doing it incorrectly, then send the engineer and finally... it is ziggo that forget to toggle some switch
21:23:41 * FLHerne wanders off to do other stuff
21:25:07 *** Markavian has joined #openttd
21:26:41 <Yexo> I have no signal on my (analogue) tv, they haven't blamed me yet but it might turn out exactly as you said
21:26:58 <Yexo> wouldn't surprise me at all
21:27:09 <Yexo> but then, what can you do except wait for the engineer?
21:27:30 <Yexo> mostly annoying because they can't specify a better timeframe then "between 8am and 13pm"
21:29:25 <drac_boy> well yexo what can you do when eg appoinment-for-the-day #2 takes two hours long then getting to #3 it instead only takes twenty minutes etc?
21:29:37 <drac_boy> thats why they always have a wide window for the reason of not being able to measure it
21:30:07 <Yexo> if they wouldn't give me a time at all but ring me half an hour before that'd be fine with me
21:30:30 <drac_boy> well techs rarely call back to the office so I doubt that'll really work well anyhow
21:30:30 <Yexo> just this way means I have to take the whole morning off while the problem is probably on their side
21:31:18 <Yexo> they said they were in the process of improving it to a 2-hour timeframe, but that doesn't really help me now
21:32:03 <Rubidium> that's at least better than saying between 13:00 and 17:00, then arriving home at 12:30 and around 17:30 calling them where they are... and them blaming I wasn't there at 08:30
21:32:09 <Yexo> anyway, I don't think the times are as unpredictable as that. They just don't want to give a small timeframe so they can still switch around the order at the last minute
21:32:36 <Yexo> I can still be lucky and have them turn up early
21:33:15 <Rubidium> oh, and package delivery... saying they delivered at the neighbour but actually not delivering there but somewhere completely else
21:33:26 <Rubidium> (like half a block down)
21:34:17 <Yexo> I had them make the delivery to my work address but gave it over the telephone before I went on holiday. The delivery would be after I came back, but it turned out they had misunderstood one digit in the postal code
21:34:51 <Yexo> turns out they don't check the street name at all and just wrote down a completely differents treet name matching the wrong postal code
21:35:15 <Rubidium> yup, postalcode + house number is what they use
21:35:20 <Yexo> called them, they said they'd fix it, called them a few days later: they had tried to deliver it (to the wrong address), but failed
21:36:01 <Yexo> I should really go now. Good night again :)
22:54:05 *** kkimlabs has joined #openttd
22:55:36 <kkimlabs> I can't believe that this is even possible
22:57:32 <NGC3982> FIRS industries can really escalade
22:57:49 <NGC3982> 6 tonnes.. 266 tonnes.. 14980 tonnes..
23:00:00 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
23:00:01 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
23:22:21 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: secondary industries react purely on amount of input cargo
23:36:17 <nicfer> I'm trying to setup mingw for compiling openttd but when ./configure-ing, I get a pack of 'HOSTNAME.EXE - entry point not found' errors
23:37:22 <nicfer> below also says 'Unable to find entry point s_perror in the dynamic link library MSWSOCK.dll'
23:53:23 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd
23:55:50 <glx> nicfer: followed the tutorial ?
23:58:28 <drac_boy> someone trying to create a small grf?
continue to next day ⏵
