IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-07-23
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06:40:43 <Supercheese> but... it's night here
06:41:24 <Supercheese> hmm, we need timezone agnostic times
06:41:31 <Supercheese> good waking, perhaps
06:41:47 <Supercheese> presuming awakening happened recently
06:44:31 <telanus> but one would get the same problem using good awakening
06:45:14 <Supercheese> Too close to Great Awakening, perhaps
06:45:53 <Supercheese> "Salve, excitate" for some Latin panache ;)
06:49:51 <NGC3982> let's make irc timezone neutral
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07:00:51 <Supercheese> "Salve, excitate" instead of good morning, and "Vale, dormiture" instead of good night. :P
07:01:32 <Supercheese> of course, that would violate the English-only rule
07:03:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: what's that supposed to solve?
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07:05:52 <Supercheese> Utilizing Latin to provide concise, timezone-agnostic greetings and farewells
07:06:15 <Supercheese> as opposed to "[good] morning", which is awkward when it's nighttime in your local timezone
07:06:27 <Supercheese> anyhow, I'm sleepy and rambling
07:08:25 <__ln__> i'm pretty sure "dormiture" means something like sleeping
07:08:43 <Supercheese> it's easier in Latin; in English you'd have to say "Hi, recently-awakened"
07:09:00 <Supercheese> or "Bye, about-to-sleep"
07:09:12 <Supercheese> the literal translations :P
07:09:36 <Supercheese> but I digress from anything relevant
07:10:41 <__ln__> why don't we embrace Swatch® Internet Time, and say something like "good @730 everyone!"
07:11:31 <Supercheese> Probably have to pay royalties for that
07:12:16 <Supercheese> Ceterum, dormiturus sum
07:20:27 * Terkhen will stick to good morning
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07:38:58 <Terkhen> hi planetmaker, Alberth and andythenorth
07:44:58 <planetmaker> Alberth, should we maybe supply a pre-compiled version of zbase somewhen?
07:45:02 <planetmaker> Do you want? Shall I?
07:45:20 <planetmaker> (until I fix building with CF)
07:45:41 * andythenorth looks for pictures of tankers
07:45:58 <Alberth> planetmaker: Seems like a good idea to me
07:46:42 <Alberth> planetmaker: can you dig up the terrain template you made?
07:47:19 <planetmaker> which do you mean?
07:47:26 <Alberth> currently I am running a python script to do the expansion
07:48:26 <planetmaker> hm, I made one for my toy. one moment
07:48:32 <Alberth> alternative_sprites(spr3924, ZOOM_LEVEL_NORMAL, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP) { tmpl_32bpp064_groundtiles("terrain/terrain_temperate", 73) } <-- the 'tmpl_32bpp064_groundtiles template
07:49:16 * andythenorth wants someone to draw conical tanks for a river barge
07:51:24 <Alberth> planetmaker: thanks, will put it into zbasebuild
07:51:43 <planetmaker> Alberth, you might consider whether line 11 is actually right
07:58:04 <planetmaker> Alberth, the image offsets are a plain copy from what you created in the python script ;-)
07:58:13 <planetmaker> I was far too lazy to figure out myself again :-P
07:58:54 <Alberth> at least they are now all wrong in the same way :p
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08:00:56 <Alberth> betting they are wrong gives much better odds :)
08:02:10 <Eddi|zuHause> so i've been wondering, what is the reasoning behind the ship-depot grid autosizing to sprite size, but not the purchase window?
08:04:44 <andythenorth> changing the purchase window sprite size is smelly
08:05:08 <andythenorth> chris sawyer decided it would be ~76px, and that shouldn't change
08:05:31 <Alberth> CS didn't have large ships not articulated thingies
08:06:03 <andythenorth> nice crisp right hand edge to those sprites :P
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08:06:53 <V453000> looks good to me andy
08:07:00 * andythenorth was being English
08:07:07 <andythenorth> it looks not great :
08:07:19 <andythenorth> I don't hate it, but it could be better :P
08:07:31 <Alberth> I would chop off the bow, tbh
08:07:31 <V453000> okay :D that it similar to what I am drawing atm
08:07:46 <andythenorth> it's an unfair case because the ships aren't all drawn yet
08:07:54 <andythenorth> they will have more variety when finished
08:11:12 * NGC3982 notices his laptop screen starts flickering at 90 degrees centigrade.
08:11:38 <dihedral> NGC3982, take it out of the oven once it gets a golden crisp
08:13:12 <NGC3982> dihedral: it's an old toshiba satellite ive been using for work for five years now
08:13:35 <NGC3982> it's holding 80-113C regularly, and havent had any real problems until now.
08:14:00 <NGC3982> time to put the old horse on the shelf..
08:17:50 <peter1138> lugo, what the hell?
08:23:33 <__ln__> enhanced using adobe® photoshop® software?
08:24:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i can tell by the pixels!
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08:26:02 <NGC3982> after a few months of intense star trek plowing, i fail to read "enhance" without parapraxing' it to "engage".
08:36:21 <dihedral> NGC3982, so you actually mean the screen flickers when the CPU reaches 90 degrees? :P
08:36:30 <dihedral> or do you read GPU temperatures too?
08:36:51 <dihedral> you could open up the laptop and remove all the dust from the fans and coolers, that usually helps
08:37:00 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: ever tried cleaning?
08:37:02 <NGC3982> dihedral: im unabled to read the gpu sensor, for some reason.
08:37:36 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: it's not a dirt issue. the thermal compound has literally boiled away trough the years, and no fans work.
08:37:37 <Eddi|zuHause> no computer should ever reach 90°C
08:38:04 <NGC3982> that said, im going to use it until it dies (since it's mostly used as spare computing for some not-so-relevant statistics).
08:38:32 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, CPU's often used to reach 90 degrees C
08:38:40 <NGC3982> it's an old dual-core
08:38:52 <dihedral> oh - not THAT old then :-P
08:39:01 <NGC3982> as i said, five years.
08:39:26 <NGC3982> and probably four years accumulated uptime
08:39:53 <NGC3982> im actually a bit suprised on how well it has worked.
08:39:56 <V453000> my chipset on my asus used to have 120 degrees C :D
08:39:57 <NGC3982> giving no cooling is present
08:40:13 <NGC3982> V453000: if i recall, speedfan gave me a top temp of 113C.
08:40:40 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what you are proud of...
08:40:44 <NGC3982> although, i don't think you could sigma-5 that result, if you catch my drift.
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08:41:40 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: that it still works, even with the temperature, and the fact that i dropped it like twenty times or something.
08:57:27 <NGC3982> i think i have a serious problem with openttd right now
08:57:53 <NGC3982> ive been having these urges to play at work, at home, while away.
08:58:26 <NGC3982> im having a hard time letting go of it
08:58:56 <NGC3982> it's very bothering, and it creates frustration.
08:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause> don't fight it, embrace it :)
09:01:51 <NGC3982> well, i am. the problem is that it's affecting everything else.
09:02:07 <NGC3982> i fail miserably at work, and that wont work as an employer.
09:03:33 * NGC3982 uninstalls openttd from his work computers.
09:04:47 <lugo> that sounds like a wise decision, but don't do browser games now :p
09:05:39 <peter1138> Like, say, Minecraft...
09:06:36 <NGC3982> lugo: i find most modern games uninteresting.
09:06:48 <NGC3982> openttd is something special, indeed.
09:07:28 <NGC3982> that looks fantastic.
09:07:31 <dihedral> I think there needs to be an extra statement in the readme: OpenTTD can be addicting
09:07:52 <dihedral> __ln__, that always kills my browser :-P
09:08:14 * NGC3982 notices that play-ttd.com doesnt work on his phone browser.
09:08:33 <NGC3982> i guess that's a stand-alone singleplayer ttd-deluxe client?
09:08:51 <NGC3982> if it was openttd-ish, it would be neat to control (or monitor) servers
09:09:33 <NGC3982> not going to open, not going to open, not going to open..
09:10:03 <peter1138> It's okay, it's too slow to be playable.
09:10:21 <NGC3982> can i restart a server with a new size (and generated landscape) with rcon only?
09:12:27 <NGC3982> where can i find documentation about it? the wiki doesnt seem to have anything on it.
09:12:46 <planetmaker> iirc you can set the newgame variables explicitly
09:12:53 <planetmaker> just the normal rcon documentation
09:13:09 <planetmaker> I might be wrong, though. Too tedious :-)
09:13:33 <planetmaker> and you have the admin interface (port 3977) to actually do that "better"
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09:27:23 * NGC3982 re-installs openttd.. :(
09:28:27 <Alberth> better just think to work hard so you can play it later at home
09:30:48 <NGC3982> the thing is, i have been working around the clock for the last three years
09:30:59 <NGC3982> openttd helped me 'de-stress' alot
09:31:05 <NGC3982> but now it's almost the other way around.
09:34:07 <Alberth> stupid HG question. I have some uncommitted changes in my current revision. Someone else has added one new revision which I pulled. Now how do I update to tip again without discarding my changes?
09:34:35 <Alberth> obviously I can commit and then merge, or diff the changes to a file, revert, update, and apply the file
09:34:48 <peter1138> i never figured it out
09:34:51 <peter1138> and thus i don't use hg
09:37:07 <peter1138> i think it's just not designed to let you do that
09:40:22 <Alberth> so how do you manage the weird flags and settings of git?
09:40:29 <Alberth> or are they natural to you?
09:45:31 <peter1138> who said i use git? :-)
09:45:44 <Alberth> ie too complicated to do
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10:18:54 <planetmaker> Alberth: can't you simply run "hg up"?
10:20:25 <planetmaker> if you have already divergent commits: the recommended way according to #mercurial is a merge. Alternatives are to commit and then hg qimport as much so that you don't have several heads
10:20:31 <Alberth> nope, but the picture was more complicated than I thought, I had a local commit as well
10:20:32 <planetmaker> or alternatively pull and rebase
10:20:56 <planetmaker> (though rebase is mostly a short for the qimport way)
10:21:22 <planetmaker> that's what I assumed, Alberth :-) As hg just updates fine with only uncommited stuff ;-)
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10:44:09 <Alberth> ie the nml error is old, it belongs to the previous version of the template file
10:45:19 <planetmaker> isn't it simply missing a template definition?
10:45:21 <Alberth> I'd expect the deps to get rebuild, but it breaks
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10:45:28 <planetmaker> tmpl_32bpp_zoom_additional_rough
10:45:33 <planetmaker> defined anywhere?
10:46:03 <planetmaker> hm... ho... I might have missed that in the template only paste I posted
10:46:33 <Alberth> it was a missing template definition, I fixed that already, the error is old, the .pnml template file has changed
10:46:57 <Alberth> but the system doesn't generate a new nml file
10:47:08 <planetmaker> ah. Yes. It's a bit broken... :S
10:47:17 <planetmaker> touch sprites/ogfx*pnml
10:47:29 <planetmaker> it's a makefile failure
10:48:52 <Alberth> ok, that is a work around
10:49:58 <planetmaker> alternatively try "make remake"
10:50:13 <Alberth> but it makes you wonder how to do dependency generation in a makefile :)
10:50:52 <planetmaker> it's a bit tricky... ;-)
10:54:59 <Arafangion> Tricky because that's *recursive* make there, unless I'm badly mistaken.
10:56:27 <Alberth> mostly because you need dependencies to decide whether you need to update dependencies
10:56:50 <Alberth> which gives unpleasant effects when you delete files
10:58:38 <planetmaker> and that's where we are...
10:58:39 <Alberth> but I am not doing that
10:59:00 <planetmaker> Alberth: I shall try to put the re-write into use on zbasebuild
10:59:09 <planetmaker> it *should* behave better
10:59:31 <planetmaker> but I haven't put it to much use except in DutchTrains(?) from foobar and on iirc fish
10:59:44 <planetmaker> but I might get around to that only tomorrow
10:59:46 <Alberth> perhaps we should do what openttd does, namely generate deps in a separate program
11:02:08 <planetmaker> well. maybe... but run time is an issue, too
11:02:18 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker still has the scariest avatar...
11:02:56 <planetmaker> and for once it's not even a ripped image from *somewhere* ;-)
11:05:02 <NGC3982> can town density be altered via newgrf?
11:05:31 <NGC3982> (where town density is the maximum of usable passengers per tile)
11:05:37 <NGC3982> is such a number exist, that is.
11:05:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's defined per house
11:12:25 <peter1138> rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (6769 bytes received so far) [sender]
11:12:26 <peter1138> rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at io.c(601) [sender=3.0.7]
11:30:26 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: it's a MITM attack!!
11:32:21 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: it's a local sync, no network involved...
11:39:48 <Alberth> yeah, a Man In The Machine attack
11:41:20 <NGC3982> heh, that's my nickname at work.
11:47:55 <__ln__> what was the law like about taking photos in public places in France?
11:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure it is more lenient than the former east german law :p
11:51:06 <__ln__> what was that like? :p
11:52:30 <Alberth> planetmaker: zbasebuild should perhaps also use a different name than opengfx in its binary?
11:54:24 <LordAro> peter1138: how do you manage to break your software so much/often? ;)
11:55:29 <planetmaker> Alberth: yes, possibly. Whatabout "zBase" :-P. At least the announced name. And actually also grfID. Hm
11:55:34 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: basically it was forbidden as a foreigner to photograph things like railways. you could get arrested, and in the least serious case your film was taken away
11:55:59 <planetmaker> though I don't really mind passing it off as OpenGFX, tbh
11:57:08 <planetmaker> but indeed, Alberth, it's a problem to "just build as-is". It'll get a lower revision than opengfx, thus current opengfx will seem newer to openttd than zbasebuild
11:57:20 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: call it OpenGFX32?
11:57:23 <planetmaker> (which is a backdraw of the symlinks as opposed to real clone)
11:57:29 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: sounds like modern-day USA...
11:57:51 <Alberth> I was mostly thinking of name and error report confusion
11:57:58 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: thought about that. Might be good. But... It's also 8bpp OpenGFX. Thus...
11:58:27 <planetmaker> Alberth: yes. Iff we publish it as OpenGFX - then it will be OpenGFX. There's little way back
11:58:35 <planetmaker> tbh, I'd not mind going that way
11:58:55 <planetmaker> I'm only a bit hesitant because of Zephyris' reply as 'test ground'
11:59:14 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: an AMD x64 also contains a 32bit mode...
11:59:45 <planetmaker> on the other hand... would it hurt, to have "experimental" 32bpp in OpenGFX?
12:01:58 <peter1138> what's wrong with zBase?
12:02:05 <peter1138> it's not near finished yet is it?
12:02:20 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the meaning of "zbase"?
12:02:28 <planetmaker> it's not finished yet. And to build it you need all of OpenGFX anyway
12:02:46 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: no real meaning. Other than maybe Zephyris' base graphics ;-)
12:03:38 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'd still of the opinion that you should offer "pure" OpenGFX besides "OpenGFX32"
12:04:13 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: but it's (currently) a choice of the user to choose 8bpp or 32bpp
12:04:39 <peter1138> especially my bits of code
12:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, but is it also a choice of the user to download 8bpp or 32bpp?
12:05:13 <peter1138> did the special case for destroyed vehicles ever get added?
12:05:21 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: no(t yet). But that can (and shall) be implemented in bananas that it offers the full or the 8bpp-only download
12:05:24 <Alberth> planetmaker: naming it opengfx makes it 'official', perhaps more than wanted at this stage
12:05:27 <planetmaker> md5sums don't differ
12:07:26 <peter1138> it's probably up to zephyris to decide when he's ready...
12:07:36 <Alberth> "zbase" seems a safer alternative for now, to me
12:08:45 <planetmaker> ok. I'll try to commit the changes. Maybe today, possibly I find time only tomorrow
12:09:39 <Alberth> np, the worst that can happen is a more complete 32bpp base set :)
12:09:54 <planetmaker> yup :-) you do great work there, imho
12:10:37 <planetmaker> hm.. Alberth, but should I merge opengfx in order to build it via CF? It's a one-time big commit. But doesn't hurt much really
12:10:54 <planetmaker> hm... and zbase itself? as well?
12:10:59 <planetmaker> would seem proper, I'd recon
12:11:58 <Alberth> (14:19:19) planetmaker: hm... and zbase itself? as well? <-- I don't understand this
12:12:39 <planetmaker> Alberth: hg pull -f path/to/zbase && hg pull -f path/to/opengfx
12:13:10 <planetmaker> replacing the symlinks by the actual repo contents
12:13:14 <Alberth> oh, you mean merge both repos into zbasebuild?
12:14:55 <planetmaker> I still like this light main repo really...
12:15:19 <Alberth> the other option is to merge opengfx into zbase, and copy the zbasebuild scripts over (with or without merge, I don't care much)
12:15:21 <planetmaker> maybe making it official sub repos for now. I'll look into that
12:15:33 <Alberth> hg archive may be useful
12:16:09 <Alberth> ie 'create an unversioned archive of a repository revision' as part of the zbasebuild build
12:16:34 <planetmaker> I know what it does... but what do you want to do with the archive?
12:17:14 <planetmaker> (when the CF builds the source bundles it uses hg archive to some degree)
12:18:05 <Alberth> if you don't want to merge
12:18:22 <planetmaker> the cleaner solution is using sub repos
12:18:31 <planetmaker> as there the actual revision is stored
12:21:34 <planetmaker> maybe I can convince hg to find the sub repos alongside zbasebuild
12:30:32 <planetmaker> sub repos. They allow relative paths like ../opengfx or ../zbase
12:30:44 <planetmaker> On the cost of that it might fail to clone in the presence of missing write permissions
12:34:13 <Alberth> ../ is not really needed
12:35:37 <planetmaker> Alberth: not needed... but then it'd create new clones of those repos
12:36:41 <Alberth> doesn't that happen anyway?
12:37:07 <planetmaker> Alberth: with the sub-repos being the repos as they're now: no
12:37:34 <planetmaker> currently it's symlinks which hg doesn't know about. The idea with the relative paths of the sub repos is to tell hg about those
12:37:52 <planetmaker> without changing anything else except the sub repo knowledge in zbasebuild
12:38:47 <Alberth> if that works, without pulling a new clone, then moving the current repos to a new position in zbasebuild and then adding as subrepo should also work, right?
12:39:32 <Alberth> the latter does mean either all symlinks move, or all zbase paths change
12:40:16 <planetmaker> using sub repos might mean that all zbase and opengfx paths change.... maybe.
12:40:21 <planetmaker> I'll give it a play-around
13:08:18 <Eddi|zuHause> finally a sensible reaction: "USA forbid batman costumes in cinemas"
13:11:13 <NGC3982> that sounds like a sensational interpretation of "covered faces is prohibited".
13:19:19 <Warod> now everyone should just get a headband with batman ears. :>
13:19:35 <Warod> So the bottom of the screen would be like ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ for everyone behind. ;)
13:21:46 <NGC3982> there is surely evidence of natural chaotisism in openttd
13:22:00 <NGC3982> changing a tiny parameter gets absurd implikations
13:22:10 <planetmaker> tiny like acceleration model?
13:27:20 <Eddi|zuHause> "the buttertrain effect"?
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13:33:20 * NGC3982 notes how hawaii disapears.
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13:44:37 * Belugas does so much not feel like working...
13:44:48 <Eddi|zuHause> a laptop with a battery uptime of 1h is... unwieldy...
13:45:15 <Belugas> mine has problems giving me only 20 minutes...
13:46:16 <TWerkhoven> i've got one that shows 100% for 10, then shuts down cus of low battery
13:46:52 <TWerkhoven> well, it did untill it went bust
13:53:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling the laptop is way faster after deactivating the windows swapfile
13:55:40 <NGC3982> the asus 39jc extends 10 hours with linux
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15:02:09 <NGC3982> my god, im in bsd enviroment for the first time
15:06:16 <andythenorth> make sure you know your safe word
15:06:55 <NGC3982> i fail to find information on how i start a server with a loaded grf in bsd
15:15:31 <NGC3982> im having ssh access to this bsd openttd-server
15:15:40 <NGC3982> and im trying to start it with a certain grf setup
15:15:59 <NGC3982> as far as the intarwebz tell me, im simply supposed to put the grf files in /openttd/data
15:16:07 <NGC3982> but that catalogue doesnt exist, as far as i can see.
15:17:38 <NGC3982> i cant even find /openttd/
15:17:47 <NGC3982> the only referenses i find is for linux
15:17:53 <NGC3982> so im a bit ..puzzled.
15:18:03 <andythenorth> see if it has a locate db that is up to date...
15:18:06 <Rubidium> even then, /openttd is more likely wrong
15:18:07 <andythenorth> to test this try
15:18:27 <Rubidium> NGC3982: what does the readme say?
15:18:32 <NGC3982> Rubidium: i cant find one.
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15:36:53 <NGC3982> this is un-intuitive.
15:37:03 <NGC3982> crap operating system with crap controls and crap stuff.
15:37:16 <NGC3982> and no bloody documentation
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15:44:24 <Warod> windows is a crap operating system with quite crap controls but with less crap documentation. :P
15:49:24 <telanus> only have CETS active
15:53:44 <planetmaker> and the issue is?
15:54:32 <planetmaker> I see a steam train driving and all in good order
15:55:33 <telanus> shouldn't have graphics?
15:55:50 <planetmaker> it's not yet released, is it?
15:55:53 <telanus> a green box looks a bit unrealistic
15:56:20 <planetmaker> I know that it's not ;-)
15:56:49 <planetmaker> builds of test versions are freely available. But ... what you show is quite normal there
15:57:21 <planetmaker> it allows coding the stuff without actual graphics
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15:59:20 <planetmaker> btw, it's not like the train has _no_ graphics. It just has a bit box-like ones
16:01:07 <Belugas> mmh.. when the ads on tt-forums are more interesting than the actual forums, it might be a problem...
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16:08:27 <Belugas> i have to admit, though, a new guitar is more interesting to me, no matter the realism of the subject
16:10:45 <planetmaker> you should look at it realisically ;-)
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16:43:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
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17:00:58 <LordAro> hmmm, why TruBrain, Rubdium or frosch not get (automatic) OP/voice in channel?
17:02:03 <planetmaker> a case of "not care" or "not want" supposedly
17:04:41 <Belugas> add a feature request!
17:04:58 <Belugas> i should indeed, planetmaker :)
17:05:28 * andythenorth feature requests a new brain
17:05:33 <andythenorth> one that is more true
17:11:02 <DorpsGek> lordaro: they are hiding; all complains and issues go to me
17:11:51 <DorpsGek> i get many personal support requests via pm
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17:17:35 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: is that an insult? :D
17:17:46 <andythenorth> not intentionally
17:18:10 <andythenorth> I am not entirely in my right head at the moment
17:18:26 <andythenorth> I have not slept properly for 7 days
17:18:35 <TrueBrain> your tiny ones sick again?
17:18:36 <andythenorth> I have two sick kids and have caught their disease
17:18:48 <TrueBrain> best of luck with that :(
17:19:02 <andythenorth> ...somewhere else
17:19:06 <andythenorth> turns out I can still write code :P
17:23:40 <andythenorth> I often look at my code and think someone else wrote it anyway
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17:26:33 <NGC3982> here comes a bit of a paste:
17:26:36 <NGC3982> ~/.openttd/data/pb_ukrs.grf
17:26:36 <NGC3982> ~/.openttd/data/ukrsap1w.grf
17:26:54 <NGC3982> this is added to the openttd.cfg in root, on this bsd server.
17:27:22 <NGC3982> i have verified the path name
17:27:35 <NGC3982> and yet, im unabled to start a game with the grfs
17:27:42 <NGC3982> and im starting to feel a bit clueless.
17:28:09 <Alberth> "unable to start"? in what way?
17:28:35 <NGC3982> when starting a dedicated game, it responds to all the other changes in the cfg, but it simply doesnt add and run the grf's.
17:29:00 <frosch123> NGC3982: drop the "~/.openttd/data/" part
17:29:17 <frosch123> and add a " =" at the end
17:30:17 <NGC3982> oh, it ..uhm, works without the = now.
17:31:08 <frosch123> you're lucky then :)
17:45:20 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r24433 /trunk/src/lang/ (belarusian.txt korean.txt):
17:45:20 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:20 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: belarusian - 9 changes by KorneySan
17:45:20 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: korean - 21 changes by telk5093
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18:14:37 <andythenorth> you know how I hardly ever make feature requests?
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18:15:48 <andythenorth> well I have a feature request
18:15:50 <FLHerne> andythenorth: What's the feature request then? :P
18:17:06 <andythenorth> I know that one day, if we're all really good, and eat our greens, and send santa a nice letter, a viable newports spec might emerge, then somebody might make a patch, and it might be accepted to trunk, and then we might be able to extend that to docks properly, and everything will then be great
18:17:06 <FLHerne> Well, you won't find many flat areas next to the sea :P
18:17:21 <andythenorth> but don't you ever want to just frivolously incur some technical debt?
18:18:06 <andythenorth> it's not like it actually costs us money to fix it :P
18:19:34 * andythenorth just wants to be able to build sea level docks using the canals->dynamite trick
18:19:46 <andythenorth> can't justify it, just think it's fun :P
18:20:37 <andythenorth> that would allow similar to 'bouys have stations' as in ttdp
18:20:39 <FLHerne> I do find the 'wait for the universal-every-possible-related-feature patch' attitude annoying sometimes :-(
18:20:52 <andythenorth> build a 1 tile dock on water, with water tile as ground sprite
18:21:24 <FLHerne> Especially for airport closing/overbuild, which already exists as a stableish patch :P
18:22:41 <andythenorth> probably ready for trunk if it's stableish :P
18:23:00 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: would you favour 1 tile flat docks, or 2 tile (with orientations)
18:23:09 <andythenorth> assuming we play a theoretical game here :P
18:23:22 <Eddi|zuHause> multi-tile docks... :)
18:23:44 <Eddi|zuHause> (with one ship per loading bay, similar to airports)
18:23:54 <andythenorth> sounds like newports :P
18:24:02 <andythenorth> what about a hack version?
18:24:43 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Like normal docks, but allow the land side to be built on a flat tile
18:25:01 <Supercheese> "FISH Revision 790:da1106bcaa94: Change: autorefit more or less works now"
18:25:32 <Supercheese> Now to wait for a semi-stable nightly
18:25:35 <andythenorth> take note of the 'less'
18:25:39 <andythenorth> it's all about to change anyway
18:25:46 <Supercheese> Hence the waiting :P
18:25:46 <andythenorth> I'm redesigning the set ;)
18:26:51 <Sleepie> Alberth: but it then needs a sequel ATTACK ;)
18:27:26 <andythenorth> reverse acronym SHARK?
18:27:27 <Alberth> not all sharks eat flesh
18:27:45 <andythenorth> also I want ottd - toddler edition
18:27:54 <Eddi|zuHause> are there shark vultures? :)
18:28:05 <andythenorth> the n-s / e-w building tools are removed, and replace by one tool that builds loops, complete with depot
18:28:16 <andythenorth> this would make my life easier
18:28:30 <andythenorth> especially as I have to build the damn things one handed
18:28:35 <andythenorth> not easy on a trackpad :P
18:29:09 <Supercheese> few lines of autohotkey or whatnot ;)
18:29:18 <Eddi|zuHause> make a gamescript that reads your sign locations and builds the routes, then you only need to place signs
18:30:20 <andythenorth> meanwhile....FISH :P
18:30:29 <Sleepie> can you coop with a gamescript?
18:31:19 <Alberth> fighting a gamescript is a lot harder, as it has more powers than you
18:31:56 * andythenorth needs to 1.0 more newgrfs :P
18:32:07 <andythenorth> then I can invent reverse acronyms for GS
18:32:21 <andythenorth> seems all the action is there these days
18:32:25 <andythenorth> newgrf is so....over :P
18:32:43 <Alberth> but you can program anything in a gamescript, I see no reason why you could not program something co-op-ish
18:32:48 <Sleepie> I haven't tried playing with a gamescript yet nor with one of the new AIs, but both look very interesting
18:32:59 <andythenorth> "I would advise anyone who is serious about their career these days to learn GS. Newgrf is yesterday's technology"
18:33:17 <andythenorth> "Recruiters will find you more attractive if you have GS on your CV, compared to newgrf"
18:33:38 * andythenorth might be short of sleep
18:33:43 * andythenorth goes off to troll lego forums
18:33:55 <Alberth> and if you name it "Squirrel" some may recognize it even :)
18:34:00 <Sleepie> andythenorth: which one? eurobricks?
18:34:54 <Sleepie> well I'm more or less just lurking there lately to less time
18:35:52 <Sleepie> I also build not much in the last month just bought some sets for parts on sale
18:35:58 <andythenorth> I like lego a lot. I don't always like AFOLs
18:36:47 <Sleepie> yeah some of them sometimes really spoil the fun
18:37:08 <Sleepie> but who cares I just ignore those
18:37:14 <andythenorth> they are silly strange paranoid obsessives
18:37:26 <andythenorth> actually, so am I :P
18:37:27 <FLHerne> andythenorth: SHips And maRine Kraft?
18:37:50 <FLHerne> True. Misspelling doesn't count :P
18:38:06 <andythenorth> Ships Are Really Killing Stuff
18:38:55 <andythenorth> Shark Adds Riverine Kudos
18:39:16 <andythenorth> Shark Applies Regatta Kings
18:39:27 * andythenorth sticks with FISH
18:40:48 <andythenorth> now I have to rewrite my build script to handle tankers :|
18:41:02 <andythenorth> whose idea was that? :/
18:43:35 <andythenorth> I have four properties for capacity: pax, mail, freight, liquid
18:43:41 <andythenorth> I use these to figure out classes
18:44:03 <andythenorth> using an if/else block that was ugly when there were three capacity props
18:44:16 <andythenorth> now it will be super-ugly
18:44:20 <andythenorth> what's a better way?
18:45:22 * andythenorth thinks of at least two silly ways to do it :o
18:45:28 <andythenorth> which are more elegant
18:45:57 <Alberth> 4-tuple with conditions on each property
18:45:59 <Supercheese> bitmask the properties?
18:46:14 <Supercheese> or whatever equivalent
18:47:06 <andythenorth> if prop > 0, push to list, then '_'.join() on the list to get the class group name
18:47:30 <andythenorth> Alberth: ^ my idea is effectively same as what you said?
18:47:50 <Alberth> somewhat, I can code a "dont-care" condition
18:50:26 <andythenorth> how do I implement yours?
18:53:14 <Alberth> oh, vals and conds should be swapped I see
18:53:52 * andythenorth will never be a proper programmer :P
18:54:01 <andythenorth> I just never see these patterns
18:54:29 <andythenorth> are there any climates / industry sets with no liquid cargos
18:54:39 <andythenorth> [would make tanker default cargo problematic]
18:59:05 <Sleepie> hmm I dunno if possible, but can you query if liquid cargos are available? if then you can disable tankers when necessary.
19:04:57 <NGC3982> how do i change the value of train reversing in the console?
19:06:20 <andythenorth> I can't think of any good case for a freight ship that can't also carry liquid
19:06:43 <frosch123> vehicles disable themself if they are refittable to nothing, while they are supposed to be refittable
19:06:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you can change difficulty settings from the console
19:06:54 <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks
19:07:14 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: so i cant change difficulty options in a started network game?
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19:57:38 <LordAro> desktop environment keeps breaking -.-
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20:05:09 <FLHerne> LordAro: Which one? :P
20:05:38 <FLHerne> Ah. Not tried that one :P
20:07:22 * LordAro doesn't touch Gnome 3 with bargepole :P
20:07:52 <FLHerne> Me neither. Awful mess. KDE4 has finally got stableish, though :-)
20:17:37 <Wolf01> LordAro, I use it too, it broke seriously a couple of times, but I always managed to get it working again ;)
20:18:25 <LordAro> my (limited) understanding of the current problem is that it's deeper than the desktop environment, it's a problem with X itself :(
20:19:58 <LordAro> symptoms: the screen freezes when running fullscreen games, such as wine programs, assaultcube and others
20:20:03 <Wolf01> I found it once running without window frames (ever message popups were fullscreen or impossible to move) and I have always problems with firefox
20:20:28 <Wolf01> I can't play on that pc, so I didn't care :P
20:20:46 <Wolf01> it's an old y2k laptop
20:21:05 <LordAro> i can restart X (ctrl+alt+backspace) but it's still not right, e.g. minecraft and others will not start correctly, only black screening and using 100% cpu
20:21:23 <LordAro> the problem cmpletely fixes itself on reboot, but...
20:22:24 <Wolf01> ati 6xyz too here, and same symptom with minecraft, I never managed to get it running
20:25:31 <LordAro> idk, i think i'll ask on the forums
20:25:46 <LordAro> (linux mint forums, tt-forums isn't so great at tech support :) )
20:27:27 <FLHerne> Interesting. Minecraft and AssaultCube blackscreen and freeze here when I try to fullscreen them, but switching virtual terminals and back again fixes it for some reason :P
20:49:08 <LordAro> well, either way, an update pack is expected in the next couple of weks, i'll complain then
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21:17:43 <FLHerne> LordAro: Mint 13 XFCE is now out :D
21:17:58 <FLHerne> Along with the KDE version, which is even better :P
21:23:16 <Supercheese> Lots of folks here use GIMP, yes? Is there a way to use the new Single Window mode while still keeping the legacy saving method, rather than the new Export method? Or am I stuck with the new way?
21:23:52 <Supercheese> Currently I'm using 2.6, but I'd like to update to 2.8
21:25:11 <Supercheese> having to manually export things to PNG rather than ctrl+s is a major pain
21:26:20 <NGC3982> how do i hinder reliability lowerage?
21:27:20 <LordAro> FLHerne: Linux Mint Debian Edition FTW :L
21:28:15 <NGC3982> i cant seem to get the trains to ignore the reliability percentage.
21:31:01 <FLHerne> LordAro: Considered that. Possibility if normal Mint doesn't suit.
21:31:11 <NGC3982> how can i un-send groups to a depot?
21:31:49 <Eddi|zuHause> hit pause and select each train individually
21:32:39 <NGC3982> that means i made a fataly illed click on the wrong button.
21:32:52 <Supercheese> Can't you just tell the group to all go to depot again, which will cancel the depot order?
21:33:00 <Supercheese> or does that not work?
21:41:06 <Eddi|zuHause> it might be useful to put "cancel depot order" into the manage list dropdown
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23:40:28 <Supercheese> Yep, very nice implementation of pipelines
23:41:29 <Supercheese> Now to edit the DWE grf to make those pipeline-stations traversable by the new pipe-engines ;)
23:42:00 <Sleepie> yep that would be cool
23:42:34 <Supercheese> changing a few lines of hex here and there
23:42:40 <Supercheese> just gotta find where they are :P
23:43:07 <Sleepie> with this you finally transport oil from oil wells to refinery with a pipeline only
23:43:16 * Supercheese doesn't want to bother with decompiling and recompiling via grfcodec
23:43:44 * Sleepie first needs to learn grf coding at all
23:47:49 <Supercheese> Now, if I could decompile to NML instead of NFO, then of course I'd do that
23:47:58 <Supercheese> but NFO is bleh to try and read
23:48:11 <Supercheese> unless the author commented the &$%! out of it
23:49:34 <Sleepie> I dunno if thats even possible (decompiling to nml)
23:50:23 <Sleepie> but I think NML makes it easier to dive slowly into NFO
23:51:35 * Sleepie plans to play or most-likely mess around a bit with NML in the near future
23:52:05 * Supercheese finds the spots to hex edit
23:54:43 * Supercheese crosses his fingers and hopes his edits work
23:55:11 <Sleepie> The red box will tell you :P
23:55:52 <Supercheese> d'oh, the pipes don't line up
23:56:02 <Supercheese> forgot to check that ahead of time
23:56:19 <Supercheese> the edit did work though
23:56:31 <Supercheese> pipe arrows slide into the DWE pipe station
23:58:49 <Supercheese> alignment off, the arrows don't draw over the pipes
23:59:00 <Supercheese> but the pipe engines use the station
23:59:45 <Sleepie> it only needs to be fixed graphics
continue to next day ⏵
