IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-07-06
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08:42:05 * NGC3982 had a pet bird named ludde
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10:46:02 <NGC3982> what is your problem?
10:54:55 <planetmaker> and the problem there is?
10:55:01 <planetmaker> that you save screenshots as jpg?
10:55:08 <planetmaker> or something else?
10:55:13 <gsagsa> what graphic i have...
10:55:48 <gsagsa> its bad graphic i cant play like this
10:57:25 <planetmaker> as I still don't know how you ended up there... OS? NewGRFs? fullscreen or not? 8bpp or 32bpp blitter?
10:57:43 <planetmaker> native or non-native resolution of your display?
11:07:44 <NGC3982> "what a blessing that #science has finally discovered the God particle. now the #atheists have no excuses for their denial of Jesus Christ!"
11:11:05 <planetmaker> but you know how it got its name?
11:11:50 <planetmaker> it was supposedly a book title about it "The god damned particle" which the publisher changed to "The God particle"
11:14:44 <NGC3982> true, i have the lederman book, and i read it way to often.
11:15:03 <NGC3982> although, this proves that science never, ever should use anything but science in their presentation.
11:15:46 <__ln__> science and comic sans
11:16:57 <NGC3982> yes, i noted that in the last webcast
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14:23:20 <Belugas> ho.. a dihedral! hello you :)
14:28:50 <dihedral> or whoever can tell me what the cost of (int64)CalculateCompanyValue(c) actually is? :-)
14:32:09 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: sounds like someone didn't convert that to Money?
14:32:29 <dihedral> that is the part used in the console command 'companies'
14:32:49 <Eddi|zuHause> so what is wrong with it?
14:33:36 <dihedral> the _current_ company value is calculated ones every 3 months as it is an 'expensive' process, at least that is what i was told
14:34:06 <dihedral> the clients recalculate the current value more often (e.g. when displaying the company info window)
14:34:18 <Eddi|zuHause> ah. so you want to know the code-complexity
14:34:36 <dihedral> the server also calculates the value when promted to do so on the console (command 'companies')
14:34:48 <dihedral> but i am not quire sure if it's wise to use it in the admin interface
14:35:38 <planetmaker> why shouldn't the admin interface have access to it?
14:35:46 <Eddi|zuHause> so you want to make a repetitive automatic tast with adminscript, and wonder whether that will interrupt the server performance?
14:36:17 <dihedral> i wonder if it is a nessesary additional load, yes
14:36:27 <dihedral> planetmaker, additional laod ;-)
14:36:51 <planetmaker> well, yes. But the admin knows that. Would be better to externalize that, from a load perspective
14:36:52 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: run the server with "make run-prof" [or similar], and check?
14:36:53 <dihedral> the interface already has access to company->old_economy
14:37:13 <planetmaker> but then the question is, how bad it can get
14:37:41 <dihedral> 15 companies, 15 bots, every poll and every scheduled update will cause the code to run
14:37:51 <dihedral> and i find that a little extensive (at the moment)
14:38:12 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: i presume it runs once over the whole map, and once over all vehicles, stations, etc.
14:38:18 <planetmaker> well. there can be only one GS. Not exactly sure how many admin-scripts. But still. One?
14:38:51 <dihedral> up to 15 connections to the admin interface are accepted
14:38:53 <planetmaker> but calling it for all properties and vehicles... that might be excessive
14:39:00 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: since admin-interface is not bound to a single script, you can have as many scripts in parallel as you want
14:39:53 <Eddi|zuHause> you can connect and disconnect as needed, so 15 connections is not a hard limit
14:40:15 <dihedral> yikes - never thought of that :-D
14:40:19 <dihedral> that is a lovely idea
14:40:47 <dihedral> connect, get info, disconnect :-D
14:41:05 <dihedral> i was actually thinking of a proxy :-D
14:41:26 <dihedral> thankfully one needs the 'password' to connect
14:42:02 <dihedral> the function loops over all stations and all vehicles
14:42:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound like too huge of an overhead, if you don't run it multiple times per day
14:43:08 <dihedral> it runs over every station and checks if it belongs to the current company
14:43:26 <dihedral> if you have 15 companies, you access every station and every vehicle 15 times
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14:58:49 <dihedral> if the value is updated once per quarter, per company - that is 15 calles in 3 months
14:59:28 <dihedral> if i recalculate the value for each bot, for each company for a weekly scheduled update, that equals to 2700 calles
15:01:42 <dihedral> i'd be better of creating the network packets, and then sending the exact same packet to each connection
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15:14:34 <Terkhen> trying to configure my stupid mail
15:15:13 <FLHerne> interweb grazing, here :-)
15:17:53 <FLHerne> At least some productivity is occurring, then... :P
15:18:06 <andythenorth> no, I was just saying the word
15:18:11 <andythenorth> I'm doing actual work work
15:18:34 <dihedral> andythenorth, suuurreee ;-)
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17:09:30 <LordAro> i think i'm getting there with the patch
17:11:19 <Alberth> in that case, you are making better progress than me
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17:45:30 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r24377 /trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt:
17:45:30 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:30 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: slovak - 166 changes by Rhianon
17:48:32 <LordAro> "<Alberth> in that case, you are making better progress than me" <-- oh? and which patch would that be?
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17:58:28 <LordAro> hint as to what you a reworking on? :)
17:59:17 <LordAro> s/a reworking/are working/
18:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that should be s/ re/re / for proper confusion :)
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18:02:48 * Terkhen is also not working in the scenario format lately :(
18:03:02 * Eddi|zuHause is not working on CETS
18:03:28 * Eddi|zuHause is not really working enough on work either...
18:04:04 <LordAro> how much would it matter to moving the a certain fairly important variable to public, rather than private?
18:04:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that question is not cryptic enough
18:05:37 <LordAro> ScriptScanner instances
18:05:51 <LordAro> i need them outside the AI/Game scope-thingy
18:06:48 <Alberth> add a method to query it???
18:07:45 <Alberth> LordAro: and I am working on RCD file generation and cargodestination monitoring
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18:08:20 <LordAro> "cargodestination" FreeRCT or OTTD?
18:08:38 <Alberth> neither, it's OpenTTD :p
18:09:04 <Alberth> and it's not cd*st related :D
18:09:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean like making a list of all possible destinations?
18:09:52 <Alberth> it is intended to be an extension of the game scripts to allow monitoring of deliveries and pickups of cargoes
18:10:30 <Alberth> so it can say "pick up x tonne of cargo from FOO plant", and check when you have done that
18:10:46 <Eddi|zuHause> so something like the industry chain viewer extended for script usage?
18:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause> a propos, can the industry chain viewer actually show the industries (clickable?)
18:11:32 <Alberth> this is about concrete actual FOO plant in BLA town, not industries at global level
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18:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: the industry chain viewer has boxes [ coal mine ] etc., inside these boxes a list of all coal mines on the map, and if i click on it, it opens the industry window for that industry
18:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so subsections of the industry list
18:14:19 <Alberth> not sure how useful it would be, the idea is that you select a cargo or an industry type, and then use "shown on map" ie it is a filter-like thing
18:14:48 <Alberth> so you can search for a useful combination of industries at the map
18:14:53 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, but sometimes a list is better than a map, and sometimes the other way around
18:15:17 <Eddi|zuHause> PS: can the industry map get a button to open the industry chain window?
18:16:08 <andythenorth> PS: can the industry chain viewer be fixed? :)
18:16:24 <Alberth> it gets overlap with the industry list window perhaps
18:16:49 <Alberth> andythenorth: better fix newgrfs? :D
18:16:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see that as a problem
18:17:15 <andythenorth> cb14B and 14C it respects does not
18:17:19 <Eddi|zuHause> there's overlaps between the global vehicle list, and the vehicle list for each station.
18:17:48 <Alberth> yeah, but there is no list of vehicle types too
18:18:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, in the autoreplace window and in the depot window
18:18:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and in the vehicle list window
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18:19:10 <Alberth> tbh I am starting to see more sense into moving the minimap into the main display
18:19:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see the relation
18:19:43 <andythenorth> just make it an overlay on the map grid
18:19:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and there is this "zoom out x64" patch
18:20:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and the cargodist overlay
18:20:29 <Eddi|zuHause> which, in combination, should do that
18:21:33 <Eddi|zuHause> but that was really not the point i was making. i wanted a textual representation of the industry chains, not a visual one
18:21:44 <Eddi|zuHause> (because that we already have)
18:22:29 <Alberth> so I click at a coal mine in the industry chain window and get 50 mines, then what?
18:23:28 <Eddi|zuHause> display max 10 and add a "show more" button?
18:23:29 <Alberth> yeah yeah, say you have a high enough screen or small enough letters
18:24:21 <Alberth> ie what is A coal , B coal, C coal etc adding?
18:24:49 <Alberth> particularly, as I never know where A B or C is at the map
18:27:30 <Alberth> imho you use the industry chain window when you want to get an idea of how industries are related. If you want to know which ones are useful to exploit, open the industry list, and sort on type
18:27:40 <Alberth> or am I missing something?
18:28:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that the industry list has no filters on type
18:28:39 <Eddi|zuHause> (in that case you could make "open in list" similar to "open in map")
18:30:07 <Alberth> you could so 'sort on type' today
18:30:23 <Eddi|zuHause> "sort" is something very different to "filter"
18:30:43 <Eddi|zuHause> what if i wanted all coal mines, sorted by production per month?
18:30:48 <andythenorth> the industry list is very frustrating
18:30:51 <Eddi|zuHause> or all coal mines, sorted by rating?
18:31:01 <andythenorth> on any large / busy map, it's rubbish
18:31:10 <andythenorth> needs filter widgets or such
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18:31:30 <Alberth> filter thingies should be easily addable imho
18:32:22 * Alberth ponders adding it to the wanted feature list
18:32:29 <andythenorth> let's ship something!
18:32:36 * andythenorth has been shipping things this week
18:32:39 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. what was very troublesome in YACD was "give me all industries that deliver to this industry" (only partially related to this discussion, though)
18:32:44 <andythenorth> not shipping things is very very boring
18:33:02 <Alberth> andythenorth: not fishing things?
18:33:16 <Eddi|zuHause> EInsufficientShips
18:34:13 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: simutrans has that list in the industry window ;)
18:34:19 <andythenorth> what other thingy did we invent this week?
18:34:26 <andythenorth> there was some GUI thing we talked about
18:34:47 <Alberth> the solution to FS#5218?
18:34:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yes, but YACD only has a "delivers to" list. and that was also very messy for more than 5 entries
18:35:36 <andythenorth> something that Alberth knew about :P
18:35:51 <andythenorth> oh I remember, buy menu
18:35:58 <andythenorth> we shipped "don't care" :)
18:36:55 * Alberth denies knewing about buy menus, I had to look it up :p
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18:45:56 * LordAro loves linker errors :(
18:46:26 <LordAro> also 'undefined references'
19:11:04 <LordAro> errors when linking. @ ContentInfo::GetTextfile()
19:11:25 <LordAro> with the BaseMedia<> functions
19:23:42 <Rubidium> looks like you need to instantiate some methods
19:23:55 <Rubidium> see the bottom of the _func.hpp I guess
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19:38:42 <Zuu> Hmm, why is the date of content not displayed in the interface? At least for AI/GS there is a meta property where you set the release date.
19:40:02 <Zuu> How am I going to know which of two different NewGRFs that use two different version patterns from the same author that is newest?
19:40:32 <Rubidium> by introducing a third version
19:41:18 <Zuu> Aviators Aircraft vs General avi8tion
19:43:31 <Zuu> hmm one of them have no parameters meta data, so it should be the older one then.
19:52:38 <LordAro> Rubidium: you mean "base_media_func.h" ?
19:58:27 <LordAro> but why is that necessary?
19:59:38 <dihedral> is it ok to update cur_economy.company_value in CompaniesGenStatistics (economy.cpp)?
20:00:16 <LordAro> (unrelated to dihedral) YES.
20:00:21 <dihedral> then the value can be used at multiple places - console command 'companies', game script, admin interface
20:01:29 <LordAro> all are working except for scripts...
20:06:48 <Zuu> I though that maybe I should give it a try to play with aircraft ranges to possible fix one or two of my AIs to handle it. However, even if I seem to use the latest av8 NewGRF and no other NewGRFs there is no range.
20:07:16 <Zuu> Nothing in my openttd.cfg matches against "range" and I can't find anything in adv. settings that may disable it.
20:12:22 <Zuu> Oh, it actually did work, I was just blind. Didn't see the Range property as I assumed that it would have been added at the bottom of the unsorted property list.
20:17:34 <LordAro> ok, code review plox :)
20:27:19 <Zuu> In the constructor of ContentTextfileWindow, why don't you use the generalized function to get BASESET_DIR etc?
20:29:42 <Zuu> Couldn't you use GetContentInfoSubDir() there to reduce the length by about 10 lines of code?
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20:37:16 <LordAro> Zuu: almost certainly, i added that function after i did the window :)
20:40:10 <Zuu> Btw, did you see my patch in FS#5206 that un-hack the break-on-log feature a bit and generalize it to also support Game Scripts. When it is added, it will be fairly easy to implement AIBase::Break() to break the AI execution (possible only for AI devs)
20:43:50 <Zuu> break in this case means that you can ressume the AI by clicking on the contiunue button in the AI debug window.
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21:29:03 <dihedral> what exactly is the aim of economy.infrastructure_maintenance
21:29:59 <Eddi|zuHause> turning it off/on?
21:34:15 <dihedral> ops - reading does help :-D
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