IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-06-04
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07:16:20 <andythenorth> how about this for a filename?
07:16:20 <andythenorth> truck-hackler_R-chassis-tandem-7_8-cab-cc1-2_8-body_flat-cc1-5_8-cargo_coils-grey_metal.png
07:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be times whent the whole path couldn't exceed 64 characters
07:21:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember a parody about a new DOS version that said: "sensation.txt : filenames can now be 9 letters"
07:45:01 * andythenorth dislikes having to passing objects around between simple function calls
07:45:07 <andythenorth> I'd rather they were lazily in scope :P
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07:51:39 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: FIRS won't be doing dynamic acceptance
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07:52:29 <andythenorth> the furthest I'm going is randomised cargo production on construction of the Recycling Plant
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08:52:18 * andythenorth considers a pixel generator for ISO containers
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11:10:02 <lugo> nice work on CHIPS andythenorth :)
11:10:21 <andythenorth> it's nearly done
11:10:32 <andythenorth> v1.0 will not be many months away
11:16:59 <lugo> good to hear that, any hints on what's going to be added?
11:17:30 <andythenorth> only 3 open tickets
11:17:54 <andythenorth> CHIPS is intended to be simple, but I'm happy to discuss suggestions
11:32:07 * andythenorth wonders if anyone understands stations nfo :P
11:32:42 <NGC3982> oh, nfo as in the old programming language
11:33:10 <andythenorth> nfo is the only way to do stations afaik
11:33:55 <NGC3982> nfo code is afaik kept in nuclear storage fascilities, deep underground.
11:34:34 <NGC3982> or at least that is the feeling that occurs when i read it :-)
11:34:47 <andythenorth> the only problem is that stations work like nothing else, and the newgrf spec is written by someone who either understands it too well, or hardly at all :P
11:35:45 <NGC3982> how do you rebuild stations then? patch?
11:38:13 <andythenorth> I use the nfo code yexo wrote for me
11:38:20 <andythenorth> and occasionally bang my head on extending it
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12:45:13 <Knogle> Anyone knows how to check if a string contains a certain word in NoGo/squirrel?
12:46:08 * andythenorth looks up squirrel docs
12:46:39 <Knogle> the squirrel docs I can find, isn't of much help :|
12:47:24 <andythenorth> nothing like this?
12:47:39 <andythenorth> if 'a' in mystring: blah
12:47:52 <andythenorth> or if mystring.find('a') != -1: blah
12:48:38 <andythenorth> returns first index
12:48:45 <andythenorth> that's not a pattern I've seen before
12:49:49 <andythenorth> depending on your context, you might want to consider calling tolower() on the string before searching
12:50:30 <andythenorth> let me know if it worked ;)
12:54:43 <Knogle> find(substr,[startidx])
12:55:03 <Knogle> shouldn't it be find(string,substring,[startidx]) ?
12:55:22 <Knogle> it makes no sense to me
12:57:27 <andythenorth> I've never done any squirrel
12:57:39 <andythenorth> what does string.find(substr) get you?
12:57:50 <Knogle> Oh well, thanks anyway, I'll play around with it.
12:57:55 <andythenorth> string is the object I'm guessing
12:58:03 <andythenorth> object.method(params)
12:58:09 <andythenorth> I could be wrong though
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13:23:12 <Belugas> sir andythenorth :) Saluting you
13:23:23 * andythenorth pixel generates a salute
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14:17:19 <andythenorth> how did BANDIT get to r524 with no release :o
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14:18:43 <TinoDidriksen> Commit early, commit often.
14:27:17 <NGC3982> can a NewGRF communicate with != openttd software during gameplay?
14:27:28 * NGC3982 has this neat statistics app he wants to implement.
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14:37:36 <frosch123> gamescripts can communicate with external stuff via the admin port
14:38:10 <andythenorth> can a game script set off a USB victory bell when you win?
14:40:02 <frosch123> yes, it can tell dorpsgek to kick you, which might ring a bell at your side
14:45:45 <andythenorth> "the more I code, the less I understand the code, and the more I grep"
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15:29:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24323 /trunk/ (11 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Split Textbuf and associated functions to separate files.
15:30:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24324 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Turn functions dealing with Textbufs into member functions.
15:46:33 * andythenorth hopes no-one introduces a cargo with label 'DFLT'
15:47:35 * frosch123 introduces cargo "ANDY"
15:47:49 <andythenorth> I should have used 'BNDT'
15:48:24 <frosch123> it's processed into "PXLS"
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17:32:03 <supermop> trucks work? or stations? or boats?
17:32:33 <andythenorth> BANDIT pixel generation + insertion into the grf
17:32:45 <andythenorth> I am compositing trucks from cab + chassis + body
17:33:06 <andythenorth> the code has just gone from 'not done' to 'nearly done'
17:33:24 <supermop> on some level i wonder if all that is really less work than doing a grf the straightforward way
17:33:37 <supermop> it does sound more interesting though
17:33:50 <Nat_aS> what kind of trucks will bandit have?
17:33:52 <supermop> and a grf that becomes dull to work on dies
17:34:07 <Nat_aS> and how come HEQS has a logging truck, shouldn't that be in BANDIT?
17:34:16 <Nat_aS> it's a truck not a tractor
17:45:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24325 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
17:45:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 26 changes by habell
17:45:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 22 changes by Jogio
17:45:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 11 changes by Parastais
17:45:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 1 changes by RunisLabs
17:45:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: polish - 2 changes by wojteks86
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17:58:13 <andythenorth> Nat_aS: ok, I'll remove the logging trucks
17:58:13 <andythenorth> and the mining trucks
17:58:13 <andythenorth> and the trams can also go, because they're not tractors
18:00:31 <andythenorth> supermop: wrt amount of work. BANDIT is definitely more complex.
18:00:56 <andythenorth> it has layers of abstraction, which add up to 'complex'
18:00:56 <andythenorth> it's not more work
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18:05:45 <andythenorth> why would I give trucks more than three trailers?
18:05:51 <andythenorth> are there good cases for it?
18:09:17 <telanus1> andythenorth: I've only seen trucks with 2 trailers here, regularly, the max is 3 trailers, but they only move short distances
18:09:42 <andythenorth> which continent?
18:09:51 <Nat_aS> the mining trucks fit in HEQS, but the logging trucks could be transfered into BANDIT
18:10:13 <Nat_aS> because they are semitrailer tucks,
18:11:20 <telanus1> andy: I'm in Africa Near the bottom
18:11:47 <Nat_aS> if the destinction is "can operate on highway." then logging trucks defiantly belong in Bandit.
18:13:01 <andythenorth> the mining trucks should also be moved to BANDIT then
18:13:49 <Nat_aS> the mining trucks cannot be on a highway
18:13:58 <Nat_aS> at least not to my knowledge.
18:14:12 <Nat_aS> but logging trucks can and do run on highways.
18:15:15 <andythenorth> not ones with 16 foot wide log bunks and grossing over 120t
18:15:47 <andythenorth> these are not piddly matchstick loggers
18:16:00 <Nat_aS> to me, they looked like the kind of logging trucks that ruin our highways in pac northwest
18:16:23 <andythenorth> they're the next size up
18:16:40 <Nat_aS> would a smaller/faster version be in BANDIT then?
18:16:43 <supermop> i would also say that in the ideal world of tt, if it ruins highways, it shouldn't drive on them
18:17:22 <Nat_aS> it's the tire chains that ruin the highways
18:17:40 <Nat_aS> our highways are rough because logging trucks with tie chains in the winter run over them
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18:34:43 <telanus1> beyound that they use rail
18:36:17 <NGC3982> i want a truck that sais "fabulous load"
18:36:26 <NGC3982> and id have george takei drive it
18:36:42 <Nat_aS> Hmm, land trains are intresting
18:36:57 <Nat_aS> I imagine they aren't that good up hills compared to large dumpers
18:37:23 <Nat_aS> and I only really use mining trucks to get to mines up in the mountains
18:37:31 <Nat_aS> and then transfer to a train
18:38:53 <Nat_aS> faster on level ground though
18:38:56 <Nat_aS> and lower running cost.
18:39:04 <andythenorth> the really fast big mining truck can be used for longer hauls
18:39:38 <Nat_aS> If you have infrastructure maintenance cost on. You'd use it instead of a train.
18:39:51 <Nat_aS> but if that's disabled, trains are probably more cost effective.
18:40:34 <ccfreak2k> telanus1, what an adorable truck cab
18:40:42 <ccfreak2k> I bet it has an equally adorable engine inside.
18:41:25 <Nat_aS> also, Bandit wont have busses will it
18:41:32 <Knogle> meh, squirrel lacks documentation
18:42:35 <Nat_aS> actualy, will three newgrfs use more resources than 1 newgrf with three times as many vehicles?
18:42:56 <Stimrol> hello, is it possible to use like crontab to change the max_client to 0 at serden hours of the day?
18:43:30 <ccfreak2k> Why not just shut off the server
18:43:50 <Stimrol> maybe to prevent password reset forexample
18:46:45 <Stimrol> I think this is not possible
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18:52:07 <Nat_aS> what about my question
18:52:09 <Zuu_> You can for sure use a crontab to control the server. You just need to do some work to get it done.
18:53:14 <Knogle> andythenorth: I can't get find(substring,[index]) to work, FYI.
18:53:39 <andythenorth> I don't have a squirrel interpreter installed, so I can't test
18:53:54 <Zuu_> Admin port is one opion. Another option is to use a autopilot that listens on a pipe for commands. Or just program the autopilot in first place to time a command.
18:54:09 <Knogle> And googling for squirrel help, returns help for SquirrelSQL and SquirrelMail, but not so much for Squirrel scripting :P
18:54:16 <andythenorth> Knogle: Zuu_ writes a lot of squirrel :) Maybe he can help
18:54:36 * andythenorth volunteers Zuu_ sorry :P
18:54:42 <Knogle> Zuu_: Do you know how to search a certain word in a string? :P
18:55:01 <Zuu_> Google on squirrel documentation
18:55:21 <Knogle> I did read the squirrel documentation, over and over.
18:55:36 <Zuu_> Or use the link in our wiki. :)
18:56:25 <Zuu_> Check TileLabels. I think it does some string processing.
18:56:34 <andythenorth> Knogle: paste your code...
18:56:41 <andythenorth> whatever you tried so far
18:56:44 <Knogle> andythenorth: There is no code.
18:56:47 <Stimrol> thanks Zuu_ I will look at it
18:57:03 <Zuu_> Also SuperLib.DataStore might contain some code of interest.
18:57:17 <Knogle> thanks taking a look, Zuu
18:57:33 <Stimrol> autopillot and admin port is that something I have to compile into the game?
18:58:41 <Zuu_> TutorialAI contains code to split a string at spaces so that a message can get line breaked nicely if printed on signs.
18:59:50 * andythenorth can't believe that find() is complicated
18:59:58 <andythenorth> it's trivial in every language I've encountered
19:00:07 <Knogle> What I really need is to read a sign at a certain tile, but afaik thats no possible, so I have to loop through the signlist and find one that contains a specific word.
19:00:07 <andythenorth> but you have to know what return values you expect
19:00:13 <andythenorth> you also have to account for case
19:00:31 <Zuu_> Check the wiki and or google. I need to go in A minute or two.
19:02:04 <Zuu_> Knoogle, when looping you can check the location of signs. Eg SCP only regard sigs on one predefined tile.
19:03:12 <Knogle> it would be easier with a ReadSign(tile) :P
19:03:33 <Zuu_> Although mind that a tile can hold unlimited amunt of signs ontop of each other.
19:04:13 <Knogle> I guess that'll be impossible to do then.
19:04:40 <Zuu_> Which is why I have SuperLib.Helper.SetSign or so.
19:04:44 <andythenorth> list of signs on the tile?
19:04:49 <andythenorth> loop over that list?
19:05:37 <Zuu_> It enforces that the AI/GS only place one sign at the tile.
19:05:43 <andythenorth> if find('mystring') in ReadSigns(tile) > 0: stuff :P
19:05:45 <Knogle> well, if one tile can contain multiple signs, I'd rather like to be able to list all matching a certain word.
19:05:48 * andythenorth is thinking in python
19:07:32 <Knogle> andythenorth: I tested it with: string = "This is a string"; .. string.find("This",1);
19:08:06 <andythenorth> is string a reserved keyword?
19:08:11 <Knogle> I just get: the index 'string' does not exist
19:08:25 <andythenorth> try starting at 0 btw
19:08:58 <Knogle> I tried changing the name to knogle too :P
19:09:01 <andythenorth> and I'd guess you need to do something like
19:09:17 <andythenorth> 'if string.find('substr', 0) != null: stuff'
19:09:25 <andythenorth> or however squirrel syntax goes
19:09:39 * andythenorth has no idea, but it looks like JS / ActionScript to me
19:10:21 <Knogle> well, I still get the index 'string' does not exist
19:10:33 <Knogle> or whatever name I use
19:10:53 <Knogle> so it's probably the wrong syntax,
19:10:57 <andythenorth> squirrel is not a google-friendly language name
19:11:15 <Knogle> I've been googling for hours :P
19:11:16 <andythenorth> does openttd use squirrel 2 or 3?
19:12:04 <andythenorth> meh, macports can't install it
19:13:45 * andythenorth needs a 'getting started with squirrel' doc
19:13:53 <andythenorth> how do I get an interpreter?
19:14:29 <andythenorth> ./bin/sq apparently
19:17:46 <Terkhen> andythenorth: just check the AI/GS docs
19:18:01 <Terkhen> besides, OpenTTD source already includes the version of squirrel it uses
19:19:21 <andythenorth> I have to scope vars and crap
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19:28:00 <Zuu> Knogle: local a = "This is my string"; a.find("This", 1)
19:30:51 <Zuu> hmm, 1 should be 0 for it to work, but I guess you still get a syntax error?
19:31:23 <Zuu> or you can just omitt starting index
19:31:58 <Zuu> remeber that first char is char number 0.
19:34:56 <Knogle> hm, it works, but not as I wanted it to
19:35:28 <Zuu> "returns the index of its first occurrence" (manual)
19:36:35 <Zuu> The documentation is actually not that bad. But it is very consize so you have to read every word of it as the same thing is not told from different angles.
19:37:27 <Knogle> Well, I have a sign that says "Knogle Transport's Town" (and other similar signs), so I have to seach for "Town" and pull "Knogle Transport" from it.
19:41:20 <Zuu> Did your GS place the sign?
19:41:41 <Zuu> In that case, you could just store the information in-memory.
19:42:10 <Zuu> No need to go via signs that some player might remove. Unless its a DiIETY sign, which players can't remove.
19:43:08 <andythenorth> Knogle: declare the substr separately I think
19:43:12 <andythenorth> let me test a bit further
19:45:11 <andythenorth> gah, squirrel's output to stdout lacks linebreaks
19:45:28 <andythenorth> [probably a good design for reasons I don't understand] :P
19:47:12 <Zuu> Make multiple calls to [AI/GS]Log.Info
19:47:29 <Zuu> Or make a wrapper that detect \n and make multiple calls.
19:48:02 <Knogle> yeah, i just use GSLog.Info and reads the ingame script debugger.
19:48:43 <Zuu> andythenorth: So you are trying to make a GS? Or just playing around?
19:49:45 <Zuu> andythenorth: print(..) is depricated
19:49:55 <andythenorth> is that what ::print is for?
19:50:10 <Zuu> GSLog.Info() is what you are supposed to use
19:50:22 <andythenorth> Knogle: bear in mind that is the only squirrel I've ever written :P
19:50:31 <Zuu> and GSLog.Warning() for warnings and GSLog.Error() for errors.
19:50:46 <Zuu> Warings get yellow and errors red in the in-game debugger.
19:50:57 <andythenorth> does that work in my local squirrel interpreter?
19:51:08 <andythenorth> can I import GSLog as a module?
19:51:28 <Zuu> OpenTTD uses a patched version of Squirrel 2.2
19:52:01 <Zuu> Not sure if all fixes has been pushed down? (up?) stream to squirrel.
19:53:38 <Zuu> For example there used to be a bug that instances were not guaranteed to be freed exactly at the moment the last reference ran out of scope. As this is critical for eg GSCompanyMode, and other similar classe used in AIs, that was fixed quite some time ago.
19:53:55 <Knogle> Thanks a lot for your help andythenorth and Zuu.
19:54:14 <Knogle> I'll ask my next stupid question tomorrow :P
19:54:22 <Zuu> Knogle: I'm glad I could pass along some knowledge. :-)
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20:03:58 <FLHerne> Is there a way to area-convert signals from semaphore to colour-light?
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20:30:17 * FLHerne tries asking again :-(
20:34:04 <Zuu> The AI/GS does not appear to be able to choose between semaphore or colour-light. But apart from that there is GSRail.RemoveSignal(tile, front) and GSRail.BuildSignal(tile, front, signal)
20:34:46 <Zuu> No convert signal function what I can see, so one should probably use GSVehicleList to check if if a train is nearby before attempting to do it.
20:35:37 <Zuu> Then implement a way to set two corners of the rectangle to convert via signs.
20:36:40 <Zuu> Additionally, in order for it to work you probably have to set the modern signals date to a year before current date in advanced settings.
20:58:56 * andythenorth thinks sleep time
21:16:07 <NGC3982> i just noticed the bird tweets
21:21:55 * FLHerne wonders where to suggest changes to UKRS2/FIRS cargo compatibility
21:22:41 <FLHerne> Presflos should definitely take Building Materials, given they're cement tanks in reality :-(
21:26:59 <NGC3982> supermop: yes, the in-game bird sounds.
21:47:44 *** Nat_aS is now known as Nat_AFK
21:47:45 <NGC3982> planetmaker: i know this might be right up your alley, though unrelated to ottd. i recently read an article about nasa predictions regarding possible star collisions when andromeda and the milky way collide. the article stated that (loosely quoted) "1-4 stars may collide".
21:48:01 <NGC3982> the number of stars in the milky way is afaik around 3-400 billion
21:48:46 <NGC3982> it surely tells us alot about how empty galaxies are.
21:54:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm thinking someone should provide a "Brocken Scenario", just for the fun of everybody complaining :p
21:54:54 <Eddi|zuHause> (with "Brocken" being the highest mountain in the "Harz" mountain range, the northernmost mountain range in germany)
22:08:23 <supermop> i never knew the game had ambient sounds
22:11:32 <supermop> i always play with sound off due to level crossings
22:12:49 <supermop> in europe, do trains use their horn when passing a platform at speed?
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22:22:07 <NGC3982> in sweden, they only use the horn at unattended crossings
22:22:15 <NGC3982> crossings without moving bars, that is.
22:36:40 <Mazur> NGC3982, here in hte Netherlands only in specific places, or their horns would overheat and explode.
22:37:32 <Rubidium> what is "at speed" anyway?
22:39:14 <supermop> i was just thinking about train sounds
22:39:59 <supermop> typically you'd hear the horn at level crossings, which gets annoying in game, or in certain rare cases (workers on the line) that never occur in game
22:40:24 <Rubidium> nah, then someone is blowing his/her whistle
22:41:27 <supermop> on the subway here you only hear it in work zones, or when a train passes a station platform without stopping (also rare, as an express would be on a separate track)
22:42:27 <supermop> some mainline trains ring a bell when pulling into or out of a station they stop at
22:43:50 <supermop> i'd like to only rarely hear a horn if i played the game with sound on
22:45:41 <Mazur> Rubidium, I thought it was 135 km/h.
22:47:25 <Rubidium> no platforms can/may be passed at 135 km/h
22:48:24 <Mazur> They'll prolly slow down to a crawling 100.
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22:48:45 <Rubidium> well, most max track speeds are 130 km/h
22:49:12 <supermop> 100 kmh would still be fast for a subway train
22:49:15 <Rubidium> except e.g. Amsterdam Bijlmer - Utrecht, though the platforms are connected to the dedicated "stop train" track
22:49:26 <Rubidium> and the through track has no platforms
22:49:40 <supermop> Rubidium: that is the most common case here
22:49:44 <Rubidium> the HSL has no stations/platforms/stops
22:50:13 <Zuu> At my local station they removed the through track in order to gain wider plattforms to be able to host all people getting on/off cummuting trains.
22:50:15 <Rubidium> and the Hanzelijn has sort of sidings, but without high speed swithes, so max speed there would be 80 km/h
22:50:25 <supermop> the main commuter and subway lines are all 4-tracked
22:50:39 <supermop> with local platforms only on the local tracks
22:50:51 <Rubidium> the NL barely has subways
22:51:23 <Rubidium> and if they do, they're crappy "tram under ground" kind of subways instead of proper ones where a significant speed can be reached
22:52:09 <supermop> out in the long distance amtrack lines its just one track, and no local/express distinction
22:52:27 <supermop> for political reasons those trains often stop at every station
22:54:37 <Mazur> From my misspent youth in seem to remember trains passing platforms at something like 50 km/h, I'd guess. A fair clip, but much the same range as cars in the city.
22:55:00 <Rubidium> Mazur: what station?
22:55:15 <Rubidium> as there are plenty of stations where the local track speed is limited to 40 km/h
22:56:00 <Mazur> s/in/I/ in the second to last of my sentences.
22:57:17 <Mazur> Rubidium, over here no city is big enough to warrant proper subways.
22:57:27 <Rubidium> that smells like a place where 40 km/h might be enough
22:57:43 <Rubidium> Mazur: but what is a proper subway?
22:58:13 <Rubidium> there the subway is totally separated from the rest
22:58:30 <Rubidium> in Japan the subway is just a normal train running underground
22:58:43 <Rubidium> some are "express" or "rapid express"
22:58:51 <Rubidium> imo that's the better solution
22:59:23 <Rubidium> so you get a "rapid express" from Utrecht to Zaandam that stops at Bijlmer and Centraal
22:59:34 <Mazur> Den Haag Mariahoeve is/was on hte line from Rotterdam through the Hague to Amsterdam, with international traffic. So speed was of the essence even back in the seventies.
22:59:48 <Rubidium> a "express" that stops at Bijlmer, Muiderpoort, Centraal, .... (the current stop train)
23:00:12 <Rubidium> and the normal subway that starts from Gein or so and goes to the other side of Amsterdam
23:00:42 <Rubidium> *that* would make things more useful
23:01:16 <Rubidium> and can remove those massive dikes through cities with rail on top of them
23:03:20 <Mazur> Noone can remove massive dikes is they don't want to.
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23:38:27 <Eddi|zuHause> in Bitterfeld station, trains pass at >200km/h speed
23:38:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and they don't blow their horns
23:39:22 <Eddi|zuHause> speed may temporarily be lowered to 160km/h currently, but i'm not entirely up to date
23:54:02 *** Nat_AFK is now known as Nat_aS
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