IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-04-25
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01:07:40 <Rhamphoryncus> aaargh. Almost done replacing a line with newer stuff.. oh look, the new wagon is finally available! :P
01:47:40 <Skau1> ive made tons of overflow lanes now
01:48:05 <Skau1> hopefully ive ficed most of my problems with pileups now
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02:49:31 <Skau1> What is the best way to merge many lines into one?
03:04:11 <Rhamphoryncus> That has no simple answer
03:06:47 <Rhamphoryncus> Assuming they don't overload it just connect them
03:07:16 <Rhamphoryncus> The issue is more about how to increase the capacity while still being a single line
03:07:55 <Rhamphoryncus> A signal spacing of 2 helps. More HP/ton helps (faster acceleration means smaller gaps from the stop/start of a merge)
03:08:25 <Rhamphoryncus> Longer trains (with the same HP/ton) helps due to having less gaps
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03:27:10 <Rhamphoryncus> So.. the UKRS2 Deltic makes a sound that's *exactly* like the police helicopter outside
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07:08:26 <zxbiohazardzx> i have a city on the scenario editor
07:08:30 <zxbiohazardzx> but when i want to expand it
07:08:41 <zxbiohazardzx> it will no longer grow unless i allow the city to build roads
07:08:46 <zxbiohazardzx> then i suddenly do get houses
07:09:04 <zxbiohazardzx> since when does the city no longer expand along "custom build roads" ?
07:09:21 <zxbiohazardzx> using 1.2.0 i cant, and im 100% sure that on previous versions it would expand
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07:19:16 <Mazur> Not I, every time I play in a pax game, we always build the roads ourselves and the towns expand along them.
07:30:14 <zxbiohazardzx> im talking scenario editor
07:30:30 <zxbiohazardzx> so there is nothing for the town to grow with, hitting the expand button should work
07:30:35 <zxbiohazardzx> but maybe it lagged or so, dunno
07:30:37 <zxbiohazardzx> map is huge so :P
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08:04:41 <Eddi|zuHause> zxbiohazardzx: might be that the roads think they belong to another town
08:37:15 <Nat_aS> there should be a way to view veichile profit over a longer time scale than yearly
08:37:26 <Nat_aS> yearly is pretty much useless for boats
08:37:49 <Nat_aS> also, WTF, it can take a whole year of game time for a ship to cross the map? maybe that ought to be adjusted?
09:01:33 <Rienzilla> it kinda makes sense
09:01:43 <Rienzilla> a train takes several weeks too
09:08:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i've had a train taking 4 years
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09:40:32 <zxbiohazardzx> any devs around at this time of the day?
09:40:36 <zxbiohazardzx> and/or scenario creators?
09:52:45 <Ammler> just ask the question, you will then find out
09:52:57 <Ammler> else you can use the forums or flyspray
09:53:22 <zxbiohazardzx> nvm i just found the source of issue
09:53:24 <zxbiohazardzx> stupid seeding tile
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10:31:59 <Eddi|zuHause> is it just me or is vcs.openttd.org throwing 502 bad gateway?
10:32:35 <CornishPasty> Not just you, Eddi|zuHause
10:39:12 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: re-ordering the newgrf worked :) thanks ... it compiles now without any problems
10:39:35 <V453000> lets see for how does that last :)
10:42:47 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: it's apparently enough for >600 vehicles :)
10:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: as long as each vehicle is self-contained
10:56:04 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: anything you can do about the "bad gateway"?
11:49:40 <Eddi|zuHause> 1/30^(pi^e) haha :p
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12:10:06 * NGC3982 is already bored with his current grfs.
12:12:12 <NGC3982> i guess that would be an answer to my problem, yes.
12:12:44 <NGC3982> though, im way, way too far from just creating one.
12:12:51 <NGC3982> might be fun to try it, at least.
12:13:39 <NGC3982> actually, one of the things that i can start with is actually something ive been wanting for some time
12:13:49 <NGC3982> passengers as industry stimula
12:14:32 <NGC3982> or a grf that produces "workers" from towns, correlating to town growth (as with tourists).
12:17:45 <Skau1> what the hell are antennas fore? just to make sure you can never build a straight road?
12:20:56 <NGC3982> know the feeling, bro.
12:21:48 <Skau1> rebuilding my main area now.. 100 trains was more than it could handle
12:22:20 <Skau1> it sucks when you build something that you earn ALOT of money on
12:22:42 <Skau1> but when you increase the traffic, your income as far from linear with the income
12:23:42 <Skau1> if you have 20 trains with a solid income.. and say you add 20 more, you get like 10% increase, and 20 more you get 10% less and you're back where you started
12:24:11 <Skau1> untill some trains decide that they wanna screw you over and you end up with a twisted fishingline that you strugge to fix
12:24:44 <Skau1> and when you do, you lose a few trains because of bad timing of removing tracks/lights so they just crash into eachother (2 times today) ..
12:32:58 <NGC3982> definetly know the feeling, bro.
12:39:58 <Rhamphoryncus> Skau1: are your trains set to full load?
12:40:24 <Skau1> or not now, sold every single train
12:40:35 <Rhamphoryncus> Is the line congested? Trying to figure out why your income doesn't scale linearly
12:40:47 <Skau1> going to rebuild my mainstation to increase
12:40:58 <Skau1> because too many trains clogged my system
12:41:06 <Skau1> so there was too much waiting time for each train
12:41:48 <Rhamphoryncus> Congestion then
12:42:17 <Skau1> ive got 2 12 lane stations now, one for delivery of stuff like oil, livestock, grain etc, and one for goods
12:43:16 <Skau1> i need overflow lanes to handle trains that may or may not stack up while waiting
12:46:28 <Rhamphoryncus> That's just waiting to get in? Or waiting to full load?
12:47:02 <Rhamphoryncus> Post a screenshot and I'll critique it ;)
12:47:17 <Skau1> havent built anythink yet
12:47:24 <Skau1> im trying to figure out how to build it
12:47:46 <Rhamphoryncus> Do you know roro basics?
12:48:48 <Rhamphoryncus> roll-on-roll-off. Enter one side, exit the other
12:49:23 <Rhamphoryncus> Path signals are usually the easiest and best for the entrance
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12:50:00 <Rhamphoryncus> You should also make sure to have deceleration and acceleration lanes
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13:09:21 * NGC3982 still havent learned pbs.
13:11:16 <Skau1> this is what i have to work with
13:12:12 <Rhamphoryncus> Ahh. I would have one station for loading and the other for unloading
13:13:05 <Skau1> "goods" are loading, the other one is delivery
13:13:17 <Skau1> i just dont know how i want to build everythign around
13:13:51 <Rhamphoryncus> Lately I've been doing is using one station, but with waypoints to control where the loading trains enter from (and prevent them from accessing certain platforms)
13:14:38 <Skau1> cant have more than 12 lanes
13:15:03 <Rhamphoryncus> Start by swapping the two stations. The far one should be loading as it may need extra track when backed up
13:15:08 <Rhamphoryncus> Ah. That is configurable btw
13:15:20 <Skau1> nothing is written in stone yet
13:15:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't understand how people have fun playing completely flat maps
13:16:18 <Skau1> to make it easier to build
13:16:33 <Rhamphoryncus> NGC3982: When a train reaches a path signal it attempts to find a route through it to its destination that's not already claimed by another train. If it can't it waits until it can
13:16:54 <Rhamphoryncus> Eddi|zuHause: compared to what, openttdcoop? They overpower the trains enough that it may as well be flat.
13:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause> every idiot and their grandmother can make a flat map and copy-paste somtheing from the junctionary into it...
13:17:26 <Skau1> im playing multiplayer on my friends server and max spread is 12, so 12 is what i can do
13:18:07 <Skau1> but i still dont have any ideas of how i want to build this
13:18:31 <Rhamphoryncus> The raison d'être of openttdcoop is to make things difficult, mostly based on the severe limitations of bridges and tunnels
13:21:32 <Rhamphoryncus> Skau1: on the input side of each station I'd give each platform 4 tiles of diagonal, which then connects to a straight track, which has a path signal on it
13:22:18 <Rhamphoryncus> It'd actually be better to make the inputs branching, so maybe the first 4 have 4 tiles of diagonal, the second 4 have 5, and the last 4 have 6
13:23:03 <Rhamphoryncus> Or make the input a tree from the south-east. *shrug*
13:24:38 <Rhamphoryncus> Combo signals. That's okay, but it would work better if the different paths were of similar length
13:24:52 <Rhamphoryncus> A train going to the furthest platforms is blocking that route for a long time
13:25:37 <Rhamphoryncus> Why the block entry signal on the exit side? They do nothing there, and if they did it'd be wrong
13:26:05 <Skau1> i just placed wrong signal
13:26:19 <Skau1> but didnt bother to change them, cause they work as a normal block signal
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13:30:56 <Skau1> which one of these would be better?
13:32:40 <Rhamphoryncus> Branch from the middle, not the end
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13:34:27 <Skau1> should i split 1 into 2, then 2 into 3x4?
13:36:12 <Rhamphoryncus> Try different patterns
13:36:44 <Rhamphoryncus> Also, make sure each platform has 3 or 5 tiles of dedicated track to give a train time to slow down after it clears the shared tracks
13:38:56 <Skau1> (using normal rails because i cant affor du build to tear down again :P
13:40:12 <Rhamphoryncus> That should work
13:41:53 <Skau1> should i use path signals or block entry signals?
13:44:23 <Rhamphoryncus> Of the one-way variant. It should be your default, only revering to two-way path signals when you explicitly want them
13:52:41 <Skau1> how should i build the station exit lanes?
13:55:07 <Skau1> one-way-path signal or "path signal" ?
13:57:15 <Baxxster> http://norimg.no/bilde/352 - Would this be somehow good to spare traffic on the main tracks ? (Just an example, was thinking of perhaps two input lanes rather than one)
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14:03:04 <Rhamphoryncus> Skau1: just use ordinary block signals. No path or presignals
14:03:54 <Skau1> should i use one way path or just path signal before station?
14:04:10 <Rhamphoryncus> The exit can be a mirror of the entrance, but plastered with block signals
14:04:57 <Rhamphoryncus> one-way path signal is better. Normal path signals allow trains to go the other way, just with a high "cost", which can do very unexpected things
14:05:25 <Skau1> k, ill try to build this then.. ill be back.. :P thanks for helping
14:05:28 <Rhamphoryncus> Baxxster: I'm confused, what am I looking at?
14:05:56 <Baxxster> Rhamphoryncus, just a in / out system for a single depo on a lane
14:06:07 <Baxxster> which will focus on taking the traffic away from my main lines
14:06:30 <Rhamphoryncus> How would that get traffic off the main line?
14:07:23 <Baxxster> main line isn't even connected there though, but I had an issue with placing the depo just in front of the stations which had 7 active lanes. I want the trains to go another place than anywhere near the stations to depo
14:08:03 <Rhamphoryncus> Ah, trains stuck somewhere they shouldn't be were using the depot to reverse?
14:09:15 <Baxxster> No, it's just that I had one depo for liek 30-40 trains, and all had to go through the refinery station to get there, then they break down etc, block the passage out from the station just because they had to head through there, (I know they will break down everywhere, but just want to get all focus away from station and main lines)
14:09:46 <Rhamphoryncus> one depot.. breakdowns enabled.. ugh ;)
14:10:09 <Baxxster> I'm allowed to experiment! :P
14:10:40 <Baxxster> Been trying to make alot of different systems to see whats working and whats not
14:11:04 <Rhamphoryncus> I strongly suggest using a waypoint across multiple lanes, each with their own depot, and have the trains ordered to the waypoint followed by the depot
14:11:22 <Rhamphoryncus> The waypoint ensures they'll balance in a less-stupid way than depot alone
14:11:50 <Rhamphoryncus> (also, ctrl-click when placing a waypoint to merge with an existing waypoint that's not touching)
14:12:04 <Baxxster> Hm, I'll have to read up a bit about waypoints. never really used them :P
14:12:22 <Baxxster> But I think I understand it just by the name of it :P
14:13:05 <Rhamphoryncus> For a station or waypoint a train doesn't care which track it gets, as long as it's part of the destination. (There's weighting to pick the closest/cheapest one, but you can manipulate that)
14:13:42 <Rhamphoryncus> But a depot can't be merged with adjacent depots, and when a depot order it comes up the train picks the closest one at the moment the order is started
14:14:00 <Rhamphoryncus> Which can lead to 30 trains all attempting the same depot, even though there's 20 to pick from
14:14:26 <Baxxster> Yeah, I've noticed that. That's also why I've had one depo for all oil trains, one for all goods trains etc..
14:14:31 <Baxxster> (But that also can mess up a bit)
14:15:01 <Baxxster> Usually, before I tried that. I had one depo at each Cargo source, but they never really used them like I wanted to
14:15:17 <Baxxster> So I can force them to go there by using a waypoint and merge it with the depo, am I right?
14:15:50 <Rhamphoryncus> Another thing: if there's no depot orders in the orderlist a train will automatically go if it needs servicing and comes "near" one. If there's at least one depot order that behaviour shuts off and it only goes when the orders tell it. That's why there should be a depot order right after the waypoint order
14:16:26 <Baxxster> Yeah, so when I click Go to depo, it first goes to the waypoint then
14:16:46 <Rhamphoryncus> No, manually clicking go-to-depot still just picks the closest
14:17:06 <Baxxster> So that's no way to fix that particular issue then? Only the maintain-issue?
14:17:13 <Rhamphoryncus> The waypoint is for when you want a train serviced on every trip
14:17:57 <Rhamphoryncus> yup, although if I'm gutting a set of trains I'll often modify the orders so they'll go to a depot and stop
14:18:35 <Rhamphoryncus> (If you're making a new train that copies the orders of the old ones make sure to unshare before modifying the old orders!)
14:26:43 <Rhamphoryncus> If you're a little more insane you can use conditional orders to control it, so trains only go when it's actually necessary
14:26:54 <Skau1> next time will be to figure out how to build the path to the stations
14:27:06 <Skau1> i think i want overflow lanes for both stations.. better safe than sorry
14:28:10 <Rhamphoryncus> I wouldn't do one for the drop station. It's likely to just slow them down
14:29:00 <Skau1> either way i want the space to build one if i need it
14:29:48 <Skau1> what is the best way to build this? just branch one lane to 4 or something?
14:30:40 <Rhamphoryncus> For an overflow?
14:33:36 <Rhamphoryncus> That's more of waiting bays than an overflow
14:34:12 <Rhamphoryncus> An overflow typically involves a depot to hold an unlimited number of trains, but it's very finicky to get right
14:34:28 <Rhamphoryncus> Waiting bays are easier and may perform better in practice
14:35:16 <Rhamphoryncus> What you can do is take the branching entrance and stretch it out, putting 4 path signals in rather than just 1
14:35:49 <Rhamphoryncus> You may still use the one for picking which waiting bay to use
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14:37:11 <Rhamphoryncus> You can also take this to an extreme and have the deceleration lane become a waiting bay, with a block signal right before the platform. In conditions of moderate load a train will usually (95% of the time) pick an empty platform just because there's no train along that route
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14:43:39 <Skau1> i have a theory, and in my mind its perfect.. but i dont really know for sure
14:46:33 <Rienzilla> I've been fighting with this as well lol
14:47:01 <Rienzilla> I've found that waiting bays are more or less mutually exclusive with trains waiting before a branch to pick an empty platform :)
14:47:45 <Rienzilla> unlesss you connect all waiting bays to all platforms with a complete merge to 1, then a patch signal, and then a branch to the platforms
14:48:22 <Rienzilla> why the extra lane at (1)?
14:48:38 <Rienzilla> (and this is the exit side, right?
14:48:46 <Rhamphoryncus> The funky thing about having a waiting bay on each platform is that at a certain load level a train will pick a platform that's about to become empty, but isn't yet. By the time the train arrives it is empty and it glides right in
14:48:51 <Skau1> If a train come from B, it has most likely accelerated to topspeed, so if it comes, the train from A , it will have alot less speed and choose path 1 instead
14:49:08 <Skau1> and most likely end up behind the B train
14:49:17 <Skau1> so noone really has to stop
14:49:18 <Rhamphoryncus> Use a prio instead
14:49:36 <Rhamphoryncus> And try to avoid such sharp turns. They limit the speed of the train
14:49:42 <Rienzilla> Rhamphoryncus: it fails if a station is used for both dropoff and pickup (for example a station where you drop off iron ore and pick up steel
14:50:11 <Rhamphoryncus> Rienzilla: that will always fail if there's enough pickup trains to occupy all platforms
14:50:11 <Rienzilla> Skau1: why no just make the lane longer and merge later when they both accelerated?
14:50:29 <Skau1> cause then one of the train might have to stop anyway
14:50:54 <Rhamphoryncus> Rienzilla: pickup and dropoff *need* to be separated. Either separate stations or separate routes into the station
14:50:59 <Rienzilla> Rhamphoryncus: sure, but with waiting bays it fails even earlier, because a train with iron ore may be in a waiting bay behind an almost-full train of steel
14:51:14 <Rienzilla> it won't deadlock, but it will take a lot longer
14:51:22 <Rhamphoryncus> Ah yes, you can get a one-to-one kind of thing
14:51:37 <Skau1> like.. in real life on the high way .. say you have 2 lanes going in one direction.. when a vehicle is on the acceleration ramp.. the correct thing to do is to change file so that he can merge without any problems
14:51:46 <Skau1> that was my thought for this..
14:52:00 <Rhamphoryncus> Skau1: it's a good thought, but sadly it won't work in openttd
14:52:24 <Rhamphoryncus> You could just as well make station A always use track 1
14:52:37 <Skau1> it may will if i make the train in path 1 slow down
14:52:37 <Rienzilla> yeah I think that's much better
14:52:48 <Rienzilla> and then just merge when the trains both accelerated
14:52:53 <Skau1> yeah but they have to merge sometime either way
14:53:08 <Rienzilla> I mean, if they happen to arrive there on the same time, one of them is going to have to brake one way or the other
14:53:37 <Rhamphoryncus> openttd doesn't have any sane form of "slow down" :/
14:53:53 <Rienzilla> 1 small hill will decel a maglev from 650 to 100km/h :)
14:54:18 <Rhamphoryncus> That's why a priority merge is typically used
14:54:25 <Rienzilla> what determines the amount of money you receive for a hail?
14:54:33 <Skau1> so if i make path 1 zigzag, the train will slow down
14:54:53 <Skau1> Rienzilla: who you hail!
14:55:19 <Rhamphoryncus> ahh. Google for openttd game mechanics. That's a page on the wiki
14:55:36 <Rhamphoryncus> Skau1: go ahead and experiment, but I've never seen it done successfully
14:56:21 <Rhamphoryncus> (I bet someone from openttdcoop will jump up and mention some very specialized form that worked in a very specialized case on a single game they played..)
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14:59:18 <Rienzilla> ah, so if you have a coal mine next to a power plant, it's better to bring the coal to a completely different power plant on the other side of the map, as long as you do it fast enough
15:01:32 <Rienzilla> and when does the clock start ticking? The moment you start loading or the moment you depart?
15:02:43 <Rhamphoryncus> I believe the clock ticks when the train is moving, not loading/unloading. It definitely doesn't tick when the cargo is sitting in the station
15:03:07 <Rhamphoryncus> The station rating is affected by cargo sitting in the station though, so you much prefer it to be on the train
15:03:42 <Rienzilla> yeah I usually make sure there's always at least one train loading
15:03:56 <Rhamphoryncus> that's best for ratings
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15:18:35 <Skau1> Rhamphoryncus: ive made my test track now.. i only need to figure out how to set the lights and i can find out if my theory works or not
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15:37:23 <Skau1> hum.. looks kinda promising
15:45:37 <peter1138> sdfsdfsdfsdfdsf6666d
15:46:37 <Baxxster> is 2,295,000 liters max on oil rigs in production?
15:48:59 <Skau1> Rhamphoryncus: i think i found a sweet way
15:49:16 <Skau1> working with atleast trains with a total length of 14
15:49:25 <Rhamphoryncus> Baxxster: about that, yeah
15:51:18 <Skau1> it works either way, even if A comes right after B or the other way around
15:51:54 <Rhamphoryncus> Heh. Still "racey" though
15:52:13 <Rhamphoryncus> They can both be committed to the middle path before they enter it
15:52:34 <Rhamphoryncus> So one will stop at the signal
15:52:51 <Skau1> that is only if the timing is REALLY bad
15:53:07 <Skau1> but then, it just waits.. but most of the time it will be ok, right?
15:53:13 <Rhamphoryncus> Even path signals can do that, since they don't recalculate at every tick
15:53:37 <Rhamphoryncus> I would expect those corners to slow the trains down so much that the thing doesn't pay off
15:53:55 <Skau1> nah, its actually better than stopping
15:54:05 <Skau1> its just enough to come out right behind the other train
15:55:06 <Rhamphoryncus> I'd have to see it to believe it :)
15:55:15 <Rhamphoryncus> btw, realistic or original acceleration?
15:56:07 <Leanden> realistic is default in latest versions of OTTD
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16:01:45 <NGC3982> might i use your general expertice in code for something unrelated?
16:02:04 <NGC3982> im using excel, and im trying to fill out a cell with a random number, with zeroes to 7 digits.
16:02:17 <NGC3982> "5868" > "00005868", for instance.
16:02:19 <Rhamphoryncus> Skau1: no flash
16:02:54 <Skau1> then it might be hard to show you
16:04:08 <NGC3982> =INT(A1 & REPT("0"; 8-LEN(A1))) is what i have found so far.
16:04:18 <NGC3982> though, that puts the zeroes after the number
16:04:32 <NGC3982> and i cant for the love of me understand how i change it.
16:05:17 <Skau1> NOW the oil refinery went down and rebuilt itself another place
16:05:59 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: 0 before the number is a pure formatting option
16:06:38 <NGC3982> yes, and i tried that. the thing is, all the numbers are of different amount of digits. it can be 156, 18948 or 1758478.
16:07:28 <Leanden> NGC3982: I believe you can set when formatting the number of digits prior to the decimal point, thus always returning an 8 digit figure. IIRC
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16:10:36 <Skau1> im atleast going to build my method of merging
16:17:02 <michi_cc> NGC3982: Set the cells to a custom format of "00000000".
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16:28:53 <andythenorth> we should re-acronym NML
16:30:46 <V453000> btw andy I have reshuffled the grf and it works now :)
16:32:14 <V453000> AND I can actually orientate in the grf myself now
16:33:15 <andythenorth> next step: separate files :P
16:33:28 <andythenorth> V453000 are you using windows?
16:34:15 <V453000> separate files arent too needed atm, I use dreamweaver so I can collapse whole loads of text which I chose to collapse
16:35:27 * andythenorth hasn't used dreamweaver for years
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16:53:24 <andythenorth> how do I chain switches in NML + CPP?
16:55:17 <andythenorth> switch identifiers in nml must be unique?
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16:56:35 * andythenorth does other stuff instead
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17:52:26 <zxbiohazardzx> is the snowline in jan lower then in rest of the year (@ 1.2.0 ) ?
17:52:38 <zxbiohazardzx> changing the snowline height didnt change anything in the editor :(
17:53:08 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on your NewGRFs
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17:54:15 <zxbiohazardzx> building a scenario works best on empty/clean stable revisions for some reasons :P
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17:54:35 <Matulla> hi all is there a howto upgrade an airport ?
17:54:38 <zxbiohazardzx> but with snowline height = 2 i get the same result as on 13
17:54:42 <zxbiohazardzx> where i expected a diff
17:54:50 <Matulla> if i deklete the old i cand get the same station name
17:55:19 <zxbiohazardzx> control+click after demolish & select old name?
17:55:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Matulla: ctrl+click
17:55:41 <Eddi|zuHause> lets you choose whether to reuse the old name or get a new one
17:55:55 <Matulla> the old name is not there
17:56:04 <Matulla> i know this with control
17:56:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Matulla: then your station would get too big
17:56:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Matulla: increase station spread
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17:57:36 <Matulla> i will see if i can manage this
17:58:08 <Matulla> the airport is just one tile larger then the old
17:58:51 <Matulla> and fits exactly in the cleand rom but it is not available to the old station name
17:59:02 <zxbiohazardzx> nvm eddi i found my issue :P i forgot to clean newgrfs after my last generation haha
18:00:08 <Matulla> ok thanks for the info
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18:08:35 <krinn> anyone have info about openttd charset ? i'm looking for non-displayable chars limit, can this set change because of language or is it hardcoded ?
18:10:02 <krinn> i think it use utf8, but the range might change base on language
18:10:23 <Alberth> afaik there are two possibilities
18:10:37 <Alberth> either you have a sprite font, which is very fixed
18:10:51 <Alberth> or you use a ttf font from your computer
18:11:43 <krinn> do you have a font with special chars yourself ? like accentued chars or something ?
18:12:11 <Eddi|zuHause> you can provide additional characters to the sprite font by newgrf
18:12:20 <Alberth> the sprite font should be in the OpenGFX project
18:12:30 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i'm only concern about a base "fixed" set i could use
18:12:31 <Eddi|zuHause> most accented characters should be already present
18:12:43 <zxbiohazardzx_> in scn-editor is it possible to change snowline height after the generation?
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18:12:43 <zxbiohazardzx> in scn-editor is it possible to change snowline height after the generation?
18:13:17 <Eddi|zuHause> zxbiohazardzx: tried from the console?
18:13:20 <krinn> right now, range from 33 (dec) to 126 (dec) and maybe (127 if it's space) are usable and viewable here
18:13:29 <zxbiohazardzx> no i was just checking gui and it didnt list
18:13:55 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: there are definitely more than that
18:13:57 <zxbiohazardzx> also ofc wondering if it was acceptable to change the snowline height in scn-editor at all (no buildings at all, just land-mass creation atm
18:14:43 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i have the full 255 set, but only those are displayable, it's ok if those are always displayable, it won't be ok if per example char 133 need a special font for that
18:15:10 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: utf8 does not have a "255 set"
18:15:28 <krinn> well, i just limit myself to utf8/ascii set
18:15:49 <krinn> i need a subset of that in fact
18:15:54 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: ascii has 128, and utf8 some 1 million
18:16:05 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, it might get clearer: it's char to be use in signs, so not all chars are ok for that
18:16:44 <krinn> utf16 yes, but utf8 is kinda or equal to the plain ascii :)
18:17:05 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: i'm not quite sure what you actually think that utf8 is
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18:17:22 <krinn> well, it's not really the problem the name of the set :)
18:17:37 <krinn> just to make sure any openttd will "draw in sign" that char
18:18:55 <Eddi|zuHause> you're talking complete gibberish
18:19:16 <zxbiohazardzx> lies Eddi, i can read gibberish better then above
18:19:35 <krinn> hmmm, give up the charset name, back to root : displayable char set in signs
18:19:41 <zxbiohazardzx> ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
18:19:49 <zxbiohazardzx> that is Hello World!
18:19:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, we know that, zxbiohazardzx.
18:20:47 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: if openttd has a sprite for the character, it is displayable. there is no comprehensive list of "ranges"
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18:21:12 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, then i'm looking for "worst" case scenario
18:21:47 <krinn> hihi without the "totally fuck" 0 char displayable answer :)
18:23:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Ä or € are displayable
18:23:03 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: happy?
18:23:05 * Alberth settles with the 1 character displayable answer, namely SPACE :p
18:23:55 <krinn> is not displayable for me, even the appears next to my credits
18:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i actually couldn't care less :p
18:24:16 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: then you are not writing utf8
18:24:35 <zxbiohazardzx> Eddi how do i change the snowline height via console
18:24:45 <krinn> squirrel could have put a limit there too
18:25:33 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: then why did you bug me with it?
18:25:36 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, can i send you a small AI displaying 0-255 chars in console to get the answer? i could make one for the test
18:25:59 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: THERE ARE NO 255 CHARS IN UTF8!!
18:26:11 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: mind you I am not talking (at all) about what ever you are talking currently
18:26:29 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i assumed the bad gateway
18:26:31 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, 255 is enough for me, and i'm not saying utf8 this time :)
18:26:40 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: you assumed correct
18:27:10 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: THERE IS NO 255 CHAR IN UTF8 AT ALL. it doesn't matter whether it is "enough"
18:27:45 <krinn> i accept that, as i don't really care :)
18:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: really, i don't think you have a clue what utf8 actually is.
18:30:01 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, what would i bug you else ?
18:30:49 <krinn> and i think i start bad asking openttd limit, where i might see squirrel limit
18:30:52 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: maybe you should stick to numbers
18:31:01 <krinn> and i think it's more unicode
18:31:15 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i should yep
18:32:07 <krinn> so the question remain : char 33 decimal -> 127 decimal are displayable in the console and signs, is it always the case even user use a different fonts/language ?
18:32:43 * Alberth guesses no, as there is no way to know what ttf file a user installs
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18:34:02 <krinn> Alberth, this is the basic set of char define in ascii set, all extended set should kept include this one
18:34:59 <Alberth> do you really think a chinese character set has ASCII characters, just because you think so?
18:35:14 <andythenorth> how do I make that 9 or so switches in a chain?
18:35:22 <krinn> Alberth, i'm not sure, that's why the question, but i think yes
18:35:36 <Alberth> krinn: but why do you want to know, as there is no guarantee that a user can read what you write
18:35:44 <andythenorth> it needs multiple varadic macros
18:35:44 <andythenorth> last time I checked, that required about 5 LOC for each macro definition
18:36:22 <andythenorth> I need to replace !! next_house_check_switch!! with something CPP
18:36:29 <krinn> Alberth, for an extended set there's none, as to see you need support for it, but not to see "Abc"...
18:37:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that doesn't make a lot of sense
18:37:42 <krinn> andythenorth, welcome to the club :)
18:37:57 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: which bit doesn't make sense?
18:38:27 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the "return !!next_house_check_switch!!;" ... what should that achieve?
18:39:03 <andythenorth> goes to the next switch in this chain
18:39:05 * Alberth ponders suggesting m4 to generate CPP :p
18:39:16 <andythenorth> Alberth: python can generate CPP
18:39:19 <andythenorth> I did it for BANDIT :P
18:39:40 <Alberth> a nice recursive function?
18:40:16 <Alberth> although iterative is easier to understand :)
18:40:19 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I haven't written the other switches needed
18:40:30 <andythenorth> I could do that if it helps
18:40:36 <andythenorth> but I can't see how to chain to them
18:40:57 <Alberth> just put the switch there?
18:40:59 <zxbiohazardzx> is it possible in the scn-editor to change snowline height after map is generated? (and if so then how?)
18:41:34 <Alberth> no idea whether that would work
18:41:56 <andythenorth> if there's no reason to use the same macro twice, then the problem is relatively simple
18:42:02 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just continue writing the switches into the chain, with some variadic CONCAT(THIS_ID(name), _1) macro
18:42:57 <andythenorth> or I just force that this macro is only used once per industry
18:43:15 <andythenorth> and nml refuses to compile if you want to use this macro twice
18:43:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that is not the point
18:44:27 <andythenorth> or I just call one switch 9 times from the industry code
18:44:31 <andythenorth> passing x,y params
18:46:51 <andythenorth> nobody wins prizes for writing complicated CPP
18:47:31 <Eddi|zuHause> who said this is complicated?
18:47:51 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i found the set i need, the widget showing they keyboard
18:48:50 <krinn> build a sign, edit the sign, double click empty space in the sign name edit -> the little keyboard display ones i was thinking as "always displable" !
18:49:31 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: the content of that keyboard depends on language
18:52:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that is definitely the point where i think "this would work way better in python"
18:52:47 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: +0.5
18:52:51 <andythenorth> according to Apache rules :P
18:52:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but it should be simple CPP, just copy pasting too much
18:52:57 <andythenorth> I agree, but I am where I am
18:53:34 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, ok tried, the console doesn't depend on language (and it was hard to read swedish to click ok ^^ )
18:54:10 <andythenorth> actually 8 separate macro calls is better
18:54:39 <andythenorth> my method is flawed entirely though :(
18:54:49 <andythenorth> I'm checking 8 tiles around the north tile for houses
18:55:07 <andythenorth> but some of those places aren't valid to build because they will block the tiles the industry needs
18:55:16 <andythenorth> and industry layouts vary
18:55:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: take the size of the largest layout
19:07:23 <andythenorth> offset for nearby_tile_class is unsigned for industries
19:07:58 <andythenorth> can I be arsed to move this to a tile check?
19:08:17 <andythenorth> someone remind me, why is using the special industry flags so bad?
19:08:22 <andythenorth> [for locating in town]
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19:20:22 * andythenorth stopped whining and wrote industry tile code :P
19:27:40 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I used your suggestion of 'houses within n tiles' - works well for builders yard
19:28:02 <andythenorth> town zones don't make good industry location criteria
19:30:11 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should close down grocer store if it moves into zone 4-5, and adjust the hotel graphics?
19:30:41 <andythenorth> closing due to town zone change is intriguing
19:30:59 <cftm> 1. An industry produces X cargo which is distributed among all stations (possibly owned by different players), or 2. each station square receives independent amounts from an industry. Which one of the two holds?
19:31:53 <Eddi|zuHause> if i understood the zones correctly (from inside to outside), small towns have 2-0, medium towns (4-)3-1-0 and large towns 5-4-3-1-0
19:32:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you allow grocer store to only open in zone 2, mall open in zone 1 and stadium in zone 3?
19:33:22 <andythenorth> maybe I combine them with the special flag
19:33:25 <andythenorth> for overbuilding houses
19:33:54 <Rubidium> cftm: it goes to the two stations that have the industry in their catchment area which have the highest station rating. The ratings also define the amount of cargo each station gets.
19:35:18 <cftm> I have a 71% rating on my station for ore, the AI has 21%. How would this translate to served cargo?
19:36:34 <NGC3982> the rating is not correspondent to the share of cargo you get
19:37:00 <NGC3982> oh, im sorry, i wasnt reading your question correctly.
19:38:50 <Skau1> can a train pick up oil from a dock that is not linked to the station, but within range?
19:39:27 <Rubidium> the cargo that is moved to the station is multiplied by the maximum station rating. Then the 'second' highest rating station gets rating2 / (rating1 + rating2)% and the highest rated station gets the rest
19:39:50 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 0.228260869565
19:40:25 <Rubidium> so you'd get 71*(1-0.23)% and the AI gets 71*0.23%
19:40:37 <Rubidium> give or take a bit for rounding and such
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19:45:29 <andythenorth> FIRS 0.7.4: 5 tickets open, 5 tickets closed
19:45:56 <krinn> keep whining, for me it means i'm fine so
19:46:39 <Nat_aS> man, I'm not sure if my ships are actualy earning me money
19:46:50 <Nat_aS> because they take I think three years to get to port
19:47:06 <Nat_aS> they earn 100k when they get there, but have a running cost of 25k a year
19:47:25 <Nat_aS> I'm not sure exactly how long it takes them to get to port, so I can't run the math with conficance.
19:47:26 <Rubidium> andythenorth: almost 1.0 time then! ;)
19:47:31 <drac_boy> Nat_aS why are you not sending your boat to th nearest land point instead?
19:47:51 <Nat_aS> and i shouldn't have to be running the math anyways, why can't I change the setting to show lifetime income?
19:48:11 <Nat_aS> because I don't have a near-er port
19:48:23 <drac_boy> Nat_aS you playing a mostly-water map I assume?
19:48:59 <krinn> Nat_aS, always a problem to me, just consider them loosing money except if you take care of the good at rafinery
19:49:24 <Nat_aS> if it's three years, they are making a profit
19:49:30 <Nat_aS> if it's 4 years, they might not be
19:49:33 <drac_boy> well i dunno, if you're trying to get to oilrigs that are way out in the ocean...then I only can tell you to consider some sort of freight helicopter or a liquids-carrying hovercraft :)
19:49:39 <Nat_aS> judging by my fudgy math
19:49:43 <drac_boy> sorry if you didn't like that suggestion :)
19:49:57 <Nat_aS> I could use the hovercraft
19:50:01 <Nat_aS> and build a million of them
19:50:40 <Rubidium> drac_boy: because the titanic didn't go from Lands End to Sydney (the one in Canada just north of Halifax)?
19:50:58 <Nat_aS> yeah the point of ships is long hauls
19:50:59 <Rubidium> it's totally unreal for ships to go to the nearest land
19:51:11 <Nat_aS> and the ingame economy is based on the idea of bigger longer hauls
19:51:21 <Nat_aS> and the engine updates allow for redicliously huge maps
19:51:33 <Nat_aS> but the interface has not been updated to support that
19:51:34 <krinn> Rubidium, not if their motors are dead
19:53:06 <drac_boy> Rubidium actually I do go for the nearest land...no point in wasting the crew and fuel just to parallel the land. then again I often buy into ships that have small hulls tho
19:53:46 <andythenorth> Rubidium: only another 70 tickets to go :P
19:53:53 <andythenorth> also, I need a patch accepted
19:56:57 <Rubidium> too bad I'm trying to hunt a desync
20:03:57 <andythenorth> manhattan distances are fun
20:06:24 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 3.50684931507
20:06:44 * Rubidium dislikes rerunning 3.5 years for desync debugging. Takes so long
20:07:03 <Rubidium> especially when I've already done it like 20 times
20:08:04 <andythenorth> will be stopping
20:08:44 <Rubidium> ye olde ale brewery?
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20:09:07 <andythenorth> ye olde 5 hardware stores next to each other
20:10:09 <Eddi|zuHause> ERROR: YouTube said: Unfortunately, this video is not available in Germany because it may contain music for which GEMA has not granted the respective music rights.
20:10:21 <Eddi|zuHause> go fuck yourselves!
20:11:12 <Nat_aS> can somebody explain timetables to me?
20:11:31 <Nat_aS> how do I get my trains to maximize spacing between themselves>
20:11:32 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody in this world understands timetables.
20:12:26 <Nat_aS> there should just be a button that makes trains in the same group try to get as far away from each other as possible.
20:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: you let a train run one time, then add buffer times so you get a nice round number and can catch up delays, and then you set start dates for each train
20:13:01 <Nat_aS> and expected/scheduled?
20:13:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: autofill will read the times the train takes on the first round
20:13:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: and expected/scheduled only change the display, they do nothing
20:14:00 <andythenorth> I tried timetables once
20:14:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll make a fully timetabled network once...
20:15:02 <Eddi|zuHause> but it needs partial routes to be anywhere close to sane
20:22:05 <Nat_aS> also, does timetables work with shared orders?
20:22:23 <Nat_aS> I wish I could just build stations, and the create a route that will connect the stations, and then assign trains to it
20:22:32 <Nat_aS> and they will space themselves automaticly
20:22:59 <andythenorth> 'wait until preceeding train with shared orders has left station?'
20:22:59 <Nat_aS> I also wish there was a way to sort by Running cost and reliability
20:23:05 <Nat_aS> or running cost and cargo capacity
20:23:10 <Nat_aS> or running cost and speed
20:23:12 * andythenorth forsees deadlock
20:23:24 <Nat_aS> or power/ running cost within a range
20:23:41 <Nat_aS> andythenorth, something like that, only more flexible to avoid the deadlock
20:24:15 <Nat_aS> or, filter by train type
20:24:38 <Nat_aS> as in only show steam engines, or freight engines
20:25:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: typically you'd do "leave when next train arrives"
20:25:42 <Nat_aS> trains should not autorenue when they are up for replacemnt
20:25:52 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: would need a fudge factor
20:25:59 <Nat_aS> spends half a million dollars on an obsolete train when I was saving up for a better one
20:25:59 <andythenorth> otherwise they all wait for each other...
20:26:14 <andythenorth> FIRS hotel randomises production
20:26:20 <andythenorth> how is it doing that :o
20:28:44 * andythenorth is genuinely puzzle
20:29:08 <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of randomize?
20:29:31 <andythenorth> it's a black hole industry
20:29:35 <andythenorth> production cb is not used at all
20:29:38 <andythenorth> maybe that's why
20:29:43 <Eddi|zuHause> my guess is some kind of default behaviour kicking in
20:33:55 <Nat_aS> why does ISR not have a low container platform?
20:34:55 <andythenorth> because you didn't code it yet? ;)
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20:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 225**2/(172*286*4.2)
20:49:25 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.245031131659
20:49:27 <DorpsGek> Terkhen: DanMack was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 5 days, 4 hours, 6 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <DanMacK> WB Andy
20:50:04 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 225**2/((172+5*3)*(286+5*3)*(4.2+5*.03))
20:50:04 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.20676054923
20:50:11 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 225**2/((172+15*3)*(286+15*3)*(4.2+15*.03))
20:50:11 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.15157387576
20:50:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24179 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move some variables of Town to TownCache
20:50:26 <andythenorth> Terkhen: DanMacK has pm-ed me recently
20:50:30 <Nat_aS> oh, autofill seems to be doing a good job
20:50:49 <Nat_aS> my express trains are moving like clockwork
20:51:22 <andythenorth> oops wrong person
20:51:48 * andythenorth teaches FIRS town industries to be less stupid
20:52:58 <andythenorth> FIRS may suck less soon
20:58:12 <Terkhen> since when does FIRS suck?
21:01:50 <andythenorth> Terkhen: it sucks pretty bad, or there wouldn't be 70 open tickets :)
21:03:26 <DorpsGek> oskari89: Pikka was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 1 day, 7 hours, 10 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <Pikka> nah
21:03:55 <andythenorth> I've closed 14 FIRS bugs, only 2 left
21:04:31 <andythenorth> oskari89: pikka has either got a job, or is playing minecrack
21:05:11 * andythenorth shouldn't claim credit for FIRS bug closing
21:05:25 <andythenorth> most are fixed by other people
21:06:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24180 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp saveload/town_sl.cpp): -Codechange/feature-ish: add cache checker for the town's cache
21:06:53 <NGC3982> what is this data that CIA-1 always gives us
21:07:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the CIA is collecting data of this channel
21:08:11 <NGC3982> and these things are then submitted in the next update?
21:09:01 <andythenorth> if you play a nightly build, it includes these recent commits
21:09:07 <andythenorth> or if you build your own from src
21:10:04 * andythenorth gets rid of another FIRS bug, by recategorising it :P
21:12:08 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you realize you're only one ticket away from having to implement economies? :)
21:12:24 <andythenorth> that's beyond me with the current codebase
21:12:29 <andythenorth> someone else will have to do it
21:12:33 <andythenorth> I could do it in python :P
21:12:52 * andythenorth is happy to offer commit rights, or review + test patches
21:13:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it would be too difficult
21:13:29 <andythenorth> with python I'd literally just duplicate all the code, and wrap it in a 'skip if param = foo'
21:14:02 <Eddi|zuHause> "duplicate code" is just "#include <blah>"
21:14:03 <andythenorth> it would result in about 0.5m LOC
21:14:13 <andythenorth> nearly as much as CETS :)
21:14:30 <andythenorth> it would be a 10MB grf
21:14:44 <andythenorth> who pays bandwidth?
21:15:57 <Eddi|zuHause> CETS has only like 270kloc of nml code
21:16:21 * andythenorth likes to exagerate ;)
21:17:12 <Volley> i have some serious performance problem when running openttd 1.2 on a box with fglrx drivers (debian wheezy 64bit) - any known issues / workarounds / whatever?
21:17:44 <Rubidium> try the 32bpp-optimized blitter
21:17:58 <Rubidium> try increasing the spritecache in openttd.cfg (the configuration file)
21:19:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never had any such problems with fglrx...
21:19:56 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I don't see the relation between "it sucks" and open tickets :P
21:23:49 <andythenorth> Terkhen: next time you have free time, would you mind explaining the spritelayouts to me?
21:24:01 <andythenorth> they are the only bit of code that I really still don't understand
21:24:23 <Terkhen> I have miniholidays, starting this friday
21:24:37 <Terkhen> I'll have plenty of time once I'm back home :)
21:24:58 <andythenorth> mostly I am confused that they appear to be implemented in multiple ways
21:25:10 <andythenorth> did you guys find improved methods as you wrote them?
21:26:32 <Terkhen> IIRC we improved how we dealt with them in the middle of the conversion
21:26:38 <andythenorth> that would make sense
21:26:48 <andythenorth> I am happy to refactor them, but I don't know which method is correct
21:26:55 <andythenorth> also...bed time ;)
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21:30:02 <Volley> hmm ... spritecache was allready at max according to a wiki page i found, blitter setting didn't seem to change anything either ...
21:31:27 <Volley> really weird ... i get like 1 fps at the start screen when using fglrx, while things feel smooth when using the radeon driver. ( which unfortunately isn't exactely a option because of other apps needs )
22:13:08 <Skau1> @calc ( ( (9576/10) * 384 ) / 20 ) * 846
22:15:17 <DorpsGek> Skau1: 12083333.3333
22:15:46 <Skau1> ok so 1 296 207 GBP is about maximum of what i could get for my goods train
22:16:07 <DorpsGek> Skau1: 1208333.33333
22:16:21 <Skau1> 1 208 333 GBP is what im getting
22:16:27 <Skau1> could be worse, right? :P
22:16:48 <Nat_aS> my network has PASSENGER TRAINS slowing down freight trains
22:17:13 <Nat_aS> (they both use the fastest engine and cars with high speed limits, but the PAX trains stop at each station
22:19:11 <Skau1> since i started playing i havent been able to go to be untill 5AM or so
22:20:30 <Skau1> tonight i have to go to bed early.. think im going to take a shower, then to bed.. hopefully before 1AM (0:20AM now)
22:44:45 <Skau1> ok, after hours of experimenting, i finally did it
22:45:12 <Skau1> not sure how it will handly high capacity, but according to my tests.. it works well
22:45:56 <Skau1> if lane is taken, it will go to another lane, slow down and come out behind the other train.. and doesnt have to stop.. quicker acceleration etc
22:47:00 <Skau1> ok, i had to do a slight modification due to too much brake power in the outer lane
22:47:57 <Volley> about my performance problem when running openttd with fglrx: i still couldn't solve the problem, but it seems that using a compositing windowmanager helps greatly ( 5-10x faster faster ), almost as fast as it should be.
22:52:21 <Nat_aS> man, I am going to have to upgrade my stations
22:52:31 <Nat_aS> and possibly switch to a quad track layout
22:52:37 <Nat_aS> my double track is getting jammed
23:11:06 <Skau1> why arent this priority merge working? :S
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23:21:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Skau1: those are entry signals (horizontal yellow bar), they need to be combo signals (vertical yellow bar)
23:24:09 * Eddi|zuHause is always amazed how people build the most elaborate junctions, yet there are never any trains in the screenshots
23:24:42 <Nat_aS> I think the super efficant stations look ugly
23:25:07 <Nat_aS> and I have noticed, often times there are no trains in the screenshots of those eithe
23:28:23 <Skau1> i cant go for performance over looks :)
continue to next day ⏵
