IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-03-13
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12:11:32 <rane> do people generally play with breakdowns on or off?
12:12:26 <rane> it feels that breakdowns screw things up a bit
12:14:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know about "people", but i myself play generally with breakdowns off
12:19:12 <planetmaker> on the coop servers breakdowns are always off
12:24:31 <Rhamphoryncus> I suspect the majority turns them off
12:25:24 <Mazur> What's the use of building a good network if half the time it's clogged with broken down engines?
12:25:40 <Mazur> One can learn nothing by it.
12:26:00 <Rhamphoryncus> wth is with that double tunnel just left of the factory?
12:26:24 <Mazur> You never find out the real flaws or bottlenecks, because there are not trains running, and all the queues are because of breakdowns.
12:26:25 <rane> you don't like my double tunnel?
12:26:33 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, broken down engines do nothing but reduce your throughput by a large factor. There's no nuance to managing them.
12:26:51 <Mazur> Of course it's a good point, it's my point.
12:26:56 <Rhamphoryncus> If it had a signal between tunnelheads I'd like it
12:27:40 <Rhamphoryncus> And they force you to use depots regularly, but since they're so slow you end up having legions of them
12:28:00 <MNIM> mehhh, where's the improved breakdowns?
12:28:08 <Mazur> That problem can be mitigated with Service Centres.
12:29:01 <Rhamphoryncus> Service centres, more intelligent pathing, and improved breakdowns.
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15:31:02 <SpComb> +1 for that station entrance junction layout
15:35:35 <Rhamphoryncus> 4 different directions?
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15:43:35 <Eddi|zuHause> damn, forgot to vote...
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16:29:24 <evdvelde> hi all, do the towers in the game have a certain meaning? or are they just decoration that stands in the way? :)
16:30:01 <Eddi|zuHause> they have the meaning that they stand in the way :p
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16:30:54 <evdvelde> Eddi|zuHause: oh funny, mock me :(
16:32:07 <evdvelde> some cities keep finding me appaling, even though i have done advertising campains, planted trees and my businesses there get a good rating, how can i fix this? feels like a bug, but it could be my mistake too :)
16:32:36 <Eddi|zuHause> advertising campaign doesn't change town rating
16:32:48 <Eddi|zuHause> planting trees only helps on tiles that didn't have a tree before
16:33:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "good service" is irrelevant, "frequent service" is important
16:33:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. don't have a station that is rarely visited, only have stations that are visited often
16:33:38 <evdvelde> there was also mentioned bribing somewhere in the wiki, but cant find that
16:33:50 <Eddi|zuHause> "visited" means "at least one piece of cargo loaded or unloaded"
16:34:01 <Eddi|zuHause> that has to be enabled in advanced settings
16:34:11 <evdvelde> i was going to open a station that was going to be visited often, but they deny me to :)
16:34:33 <Eddi|zuHause> rule #1: first build station, then build infrastructure
16:34:34 <evdvelde> and it does not get better over time it seems, so there is nothing i can do?
16:34:51 <Eddi|zuHause> rule #2: first build bus service, then build train station
16:34:56 <evdvelde> and go more slowly probably
16:35:26 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have a significant number of bus stations, that are visited regularly, then the rating is up in no time
16:37:50 <evdvelde> ah, thx, that will help Eddi|zuHause
16:38:42 <Rhamphoryncus> I'll quite often throw a pair of bus depots in every town I'm building near, just to make sure it never becomes an issue
16:38:58 <Rhamphoryncus> Lately I've been trying mail instead, since that should require less service
16:39:27 <evdvelde> Rhamphoryncus: how do you mean less service Rhamphoryncus
16:39:43 <evdvelde> I tend to let my busses and trucks take care of themselves :)
16:40:04 <Rhamphoryncus> Less volume so as the town grows I won't need to add as many more
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16:50:40 <evdvelde> i have to say that i like not only the game but also the community :)
16:51:23 <evdvelde> many friendly people around here
16:53:41 <planetmaker> you haven't yet met the grumpy part :-P
16:54:37 <evdvelde> so i dare to ask one last question for today :-) is there a way to automate servicing/replacing better? especially replacing is inconvenient with many buses etc
16:54:51 <evdvelde> planetmaker: i'll try to keep it that way then :D
16:55:12 <planetmaker> there's an autoreplace feature.
16:55:41 <planetmaker> Servicing is done automatically, if depots are available. Or done as you order, if you include at least one depot order in the order list
16:56:00 <planetmaker> but then it's only done at the time where the schedule tells the vehicle to service
16:56:41 <evdvelde> so autorenew is an option i just have enable in the advanced game options? i encountered that, i think
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16:57:14 <planetmaker> no. In the vehicle list
16:57:39 <planetmaker> well, see the wiki page. It illustrates it
16:57:42 <evdvelde> ah... i see... thanks a lot!
16:59:15 <evdvelde> it is autorenew that is an option :)
17:00:17 <planetmaker> too similar words ;-)
17:03:22 <andythenorth> maybe auto-replace and auto-renew should be merged
17:04:10 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: someone was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 21 weeks, 1 day, 23 hours, 23 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <Someone> indeed
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17:07:14 <andythenorth> maybe everything in that area is just consist management
17:10:02 <evdvelde> i would prefer to have a lot of automated management, allowing me to do macromanagement and building mostly
17:12:54 <planetmaker> I tend to agree, andythenorth
17:13:09 <planetmaker> evdvelde, isn't that macro-management?
17:13:20 <planetmaker> You select a global replacement rule for all your vehicles?
17:13:50 <evdvelde> planetmaker: yes, that is one of the things i have just found out indeed and i love it :)
17:13:59 <andythenorth> or vehicles in arbitrary groups
17:15:04 <rane> does coal mine produce more stuff over time if you maintain a high transported percentage? because this coal mine has 500t which is quite a lot
17:15:07 <andythenorth> shall we code it for 2.0?
17:16:07 <andythenorth> hmm. This baby is *very* loud
17:16:11 <evdvelde> the grouping thing would be great too :) especially if you want e.g. to upgrade one part of your network to monorail first
17:17:47 <andythenorth> planetmaker: does TTDP have consists?
17:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause> rane: basically, yes
17:18:00 <planetmaker> rane, the max. is about 2000t / month
17:18:18 <rane> what are some tricks to be efficient
17:18:25 <rane> i try to have a train loading all the time
17:19:05 <planetmaker> it's a random walk with about 2/3 chance to go up, if your transported % is > 60%
17:19:15 <andythenorth> if the goal for 2.0 is to merge TTDP into OTTD, then consists might not be allowed yet
17:19:38 <planetmaker> nah, the goal for 2.0 is a web app :-P
17:19:54 <evdvelde> i saw there is even an android app :)
17:19:58 <MNIM> oh, I thought the goal for 2.0 was virtual reality?
17:20:10 <evdvelde> but there the screenie is a bit too small :D
17:20:16 <planetmaker> though it might be post-poned to 3.0 ;-)
17:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: by the time that gets out, we already have web 3.0 :p
17:20:40 <andythenorth> no no, the goal for 2.0 is merging in TTDP, that has now been decided
17:20:47 <andythenorth> as it it causing big issues in the community
17:20:52 <evdvelde> what about better gfx first? i like old school, but it is, well... very old school ;)
17:21:01 <andythenorth> and lack of merged in TTD makes developing newgrfs very hard
17:21:03 <planetmaker> evdvelde, yes... get drawing!
17:21:18 <planetmaker> I even pledge to code
17:21:42 <evdvelde> perhaps i'll start coding, drawing is not my strong suit anyhow
17:21:45 <MNIM> andythenorth: in relation to your earlier comment about loud babies, that means they either need food, clean diapers or mommy. all three is good too, of course
17:22:08 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there won't be a 2.0... we go 1.3, 1.4, ... and then decide to drop the 1, and go 5.0, 6.0, ...
17:22:37 <planetmaker> that'd be FireTTD
17:24:43 <Rubidium> andythenorth: but there'll never be a merged TTD
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17:24:59 <Rubidium> there'll always be something OpenTTD doesn't/can't do what TTDPatch can
17:25:12 <MNIM> why don't you just adopt a ubuntu-like release schedule? make a new version every (half) year or so, what you've got a month before the deadline is your beta, then you make it stable.
17:25:14 <rane> continuing on what i just asked, does this mean that it's worthwhile to transport stuff from even quite low production industries in hopes to increase it?
17:25:28 <MNIM> without ubuntu's silly shenanigans of course.
17:25:39 <Rubidium> MNIM: we have an ubuntu like release schedule
17:25:42 <MNIM> please no unity or 'long term support' betas :P
17:25:56 <Rubidium> just it's a 12 month cycle
17:25:59 <MNIM> oh, I thought you didn't have a fixed schedule
17:26:18 <MNIM> then, disregard that, I am a dog.
17:26:27 <Rubidium> well, it's not 100% fixed
17:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause> we don't. it's just coincidence that our versions were released on the same date every year
17:26:32 <Rubidium> but neither is Ubuntu's
17:26:45 <MNIM> well, it's the intention, at least
17:27:11 <Rubidium> Ubuntu's release dates are actually less predictable than ours
17:27:36 <Rubidium> anyhow, DD was two months late
17:27:45 <andythenorth> we ship on time :)
17:27:46 <planetmaker> it's imho a good thing to have a reasonably fast cycle. Slower than one year is... not nice or wouldn't be nice given the amount of things that change
17:28:28 * andythenorth has just moved a commercial software from 1 year releases to monthly
17:28:34 <andythenorth> too early to tell if that was dumb
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17:28:39 <Rubidium> oh bugger... an OSX bug at the top of the bug list again :(
17:28:48 <planetmaker> monthly releases?
17:28:53 <andythenorth> 12x the deployment work, 12x the client management hassle
17:29:06 <andythenorth> but newer features for clients sooner
17:30:09 <MNIM> Rubidium: I take it you can't just drop OSX alltogether and tell people to use WINE or whatsthatstuffonappleagain?
17:30:46 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: we did that
17:31:04 <Rubidium> MNIM: problem is that not making OSX binaries gives even more whining :(
17:31:05 <planetmaker> MNIM, and what's the gain?
17:31:22 <planetmaker> I guess I might w(h)ine :-P
17:31:24 <Rubidium> planetmaker: not releasing something with known crasher bugs
17:31:47 <planetmaker> we don't support 10.6 officially anyway ;-)
17:32:17 <Rubidium> yeah, lets start closing everything that's using an unsupported version
17:33:45 <MNIM> stop putting up the osx release next to the other releases on the main site but hide them in the forum below a big post about how you should not be posting bug reports about it.
17:33:57 <planetmaker> not helpful, MNIM
17:34:20 <Rubidium> MNIM: then you'll have (almost) daily posts all over the forum where to find it
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17:35:18 <Rubidium> for some reason I've got the feeling that a significant (or at least very vocal) part of OSX users are worse at using the search than others
17:36:01 <MNIM> give it a splash screen on startup with a scrollable text with an ok button at the bottom
17:36:20 <Rubidium> MNIM: great idea... just code and test it please
17:36:35 * planetmaker would also put that into a special release for MNIM
17:36:50 <FLHerne> Have you considered supporting Mac OS 7? :P
17:37:08 <Rhamphoryncus> Change the download patch to be a warning first. "We don't have any active maintainers for OSX. Don't bother posting bugs unless you're volunteering to fix them.
17:37:12 <planetmaker> But I decided it's more work than OSX 10.7 ;-)
17:37:29 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus, also that's not helpful
17:37:39 <Eddi|zuHause> "Former vice president Dick Cheney cancelled an appearance in Toronto for fear of 'violent protests'"
17:37:39 <planetmaker> Knowing about the bugs IS helpful
17:37:52 <evdvelde> oh one more thing... you dont get a pop up when a town gives a subsidy, do you?
17:37:54 <Rhamphoryncus> I can't tell which comments are serious and which aren't :)
17:38:03 <Rubidium> problem is that NOBODY cared about fixing Mac OS X for the last half year, besides fixing compile errors on the compile farm
17:38:26 <FLHerne> planetmaker - Yes, but I have 7.6 and not 10.7. Therefore you must support 7.6 first :D
17:38:36 <evdvelde> planetmaker: who cares about osx anyway, right? ;)
17:38:42 <MNIM> evdvelde: depends on your message settings, but it should in default, as far as Im aware.
17:38:50 <Rubidium> and then there was a slight spur of trying to get it to somewhat not crash/fail immediately on 10.7, and then again a long void of nothingness
17:38:59 <planetmaker> evdvelde, let's say: I'd not play the game if it were not available thereon ;-)
17:39:05 <planetmaker> nor would I be here right now
17:39:54 <planetmaker> It still has a lot of deprecation warnings if linked directly to 10.7, too
17:40:18 <Rhamphoryncus> planetmaker: sounds like a toned down message at the download screen WOULD be helpful. Put the emphasis on wanting a volunteer to maintain it, rather than discouraging bugs.
17:40:21 <Rubidium> that is: working on OSX: sept 2011, dec 2010
17:40:38 <evdvelde> planetmaker: woops :)
17:40:53 <Rhamphoryncus> Which serves to advertise the need to everybody that wants to use it on OSX
17:41:39 <Rubidium> and there's a message on the front page for a very long time asking for help with OSX... result: nothing
17:41:43 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you can safely ignore deprecation warnings.
17:41:50 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: until 10.8 :p
17:41:53 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes and no. ^^
17:41:58 <planetmaker> that's the whole point
17:42:25 <planetmaker> and obviously the full screen stuff works quite differently on 10.7. Thus... doesn't quite work in its current implementation
17:42:49 <planetmaker> it's yet another completely new API for that
17:42:53 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but that will have a gpl-incompatible app-store and only allow signed programs, so there's no need to "support" it anyomre :p
17:43:06 <planetmaker> that indeed might be true
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17:44:27 <Rubidium> so is that the third or fourth different video backend API in 4 releases?
17:44:29 <planetmaker> my main issue with fixing stuff is that it depends so incredibly much on the hardware. Many bugs happen on some but not on others...
17:44:38 <planetmaker> That's something I don't quite know how to test
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17:45:02 <Rubidium> which basically means that OSX does not abstract hardware properly
17:45:16 <Rubidium> or that their drivers simply suck
17:45:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yay for the benefit of reduced types of hardware for osx systems
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17:46:03 <planetmaker> They do... I have other programmes which crash somewhere deep in CoreAudio...
17:46:09 <Eddi|zuHause> they basically missed 20 years of hardware abstraction layers
17:47:07 <Eddi|zuHause> oh i miss the days when the first thing you did when installing a game was searching the setup for your graphics and sound card :p
17:48:12 <MNIM> I used to have a book for one old windows 3.11 PC that served that purpose, I think :P
17:49:04 <planetmaker> in any case, my decision kinda is to spend time on trying to improve the base graphics or the mac port
17:49:28 <planetmaker> tbh, I have and had the feeling that last year my time was better spent on the base graphics
17:50:00 <planetmaker> thus that's what I mostly did
17:51:57 <planetmaker> it also feels more rewarding. As at least a few people care. But indeed non about the macport
17:52:25 <planetmaker> which always only incurs negative feedback.
17:52:30 <planetmaker> Which is bad karma
17:53:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you mean karma
17:53:23 <planetmaker> oh, I did. Though it doesn't fit ;-)
17:56:58 <Rubidium> the OSX port has always been plagued with issues
17:57:09 <Rubidium> not sure what the actual cause is
17:57:57 <Rubidium> though given the number of i* apps, there should be plenty of developers familiar with OSX
17:58:34 <Rubidium> and Macs used to be for hippies, just like open source people are somewhat hippie-ish as well
17:58:47 <Rubidium> so where is the mismatch?
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17:59:52 <Rubidium> or is developing on OSX such a drama that you only do it once you get paid?
18:00:47 <planetmaker> I don't have the feeling that it is more of a drama than other OS' device SDKs
18:01:18 <planetmaker> One of the issues here indeed seems to be that the underlying foundations change at a much faster pace than on windoze and linux
18:01:30 <planetmaker> Thus you'll have to rewrite part of the OS layer each year
18:01:41 <planetmaker> None of that is necessary in this extend for linux and windows
18:01:57 <andythenorth> same reason I'm not developing children's games to sell on iOS :P
18:02:00 <planetmaker> Thus, of course, the amount of bugs due to these changes increases at least proportionally
18:02:04 <andythenorth> apple will shaft you at no warning
18:03:09 <Rubidium> it's disruptive for no real reason
18:03:32 <planetmaker> there's an incredible amount of #if OSX_VERSION_AT_LEAST(a,b,c) ... #endif
18:03:37 <glx> planetmaker: on windows you can still use win9x way for most things
18:04:00 <planetmaker> while the 10.3 framework is inaccessible to at least 50% in 10.7
18:04:30 <SpComb> couldn't you just shift off all the compatibility issues to SDL or something?
18:04:53 <planetmaker> yes. If the SDL port on OSX wouldn't have its own very bad issues
18:04:59 <Rubidium> SpComb: SDL fails majorly on OSX
18:05:07 <planetmaker> yes, you can compile an SDL version on OSX
18:05:15 <planetmaker> It works... to some extent
18:05:43 <planetmaker> Rubidium, it actually *might* have gotten a bit better, though I didn't test properly
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18:05:45 <Rubidium> as long as you like not using palettes IIRC
18:06:01 <Rubidium> and IIRC it was significantly slower as well
18:06:17 <planetmaker> which also is the reason on windows to use GDI
18:07:11 * andythenorth doesn't have AI crash on 10.6.8
18:07:46 <planetmaker> yeah... it's another of those "it crashes" (but I don't tell you how nor provide more info) reports
18:08:07 <andythenorth> I read the crash log, means nothing to me
18:08:15 <planetmaker> oh, he posted one?
18:08:56 <Rubidium> you've been thrown under the bus
18:09:15 <planetmaker> sounds like invalid read somewhere...
18:09:18 * andythenorth never has any OS X issues
18:09:21 <andythenorth> which is bully for me
18:09:35 <andythenorth> you can guess I'd mention it if I did :P
18:10:07 <andythenorth> I didn't test with 1.1.5 stable though
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18:11:07 <planetmaker> good point, Rubidium
18:11:29 <Rubidium> having said that, it might be something *completly* else
18:13:14 <andythenorth> oh yeah, I can replicate 4689 btw ;)
18:13:31 * andythenorth never uses full screen mode, totally slows down development :P
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18:21:19 <planetmaker> andythenorth, indeed. And even then... it makes switching to other things sooo tedious.
18:21:31 <planetmaker> And even when I play. Then all other com channels would be blocked.
18:21:38 <planetmaker> which'd be bad, too
18:21:49 <andythenorth> is it acceptable to lock out features on some platforms?
18:22:21 <andythenorth> not productive long term either
18:22:32 <andythenorth> just incurring variation which incurs support and technical debt
18:22:37 <andythenorth> variation => bad
18:23:19 <andythenorth> but crashes => bad
18:26:38 * Rubidium is sad that base graphics downloading is not working for OSX
18:27:05 <Rubidium> as OSX is the only platform for which the prefered way of installing does not provide graphics
18:27:08 <andythenorth> I could try to fix these things, but I'd be so out of my depth...
18:27:20 <andythenorth> it would become 'other people code, andy types it into his mac'
18:27:51 <Rubidium> although... OpenTTD installation on OSX isn't done by the prefered way anyhow
18:28:02 <planetmaker> what's the preferred way?
18:28:17 <Rubidium> double click on dmg I'd say
18:28:19 <andythenorth> hg clone, make run -j13 :P
18:28:41 <Rubidium> instead of unzipping some file and then doing something with it
18:29:06 <planetmaker> I'd say the 'preferred' way is to download something, click it, get a window which tells you to drag something inside it to the Application folder. And then be done
18:29:25 <andythenorth> how much is a used mac anyway?
18:29:42 <Rubidium> too many sanity points for me
18:30:53 <planetmaker> well. Either people hate mac. Or they love it. Usually. There's only very few who are not emotional there
18:31:12 <andythenorth> the answer is 'way too much' :P
18:31:29 <andythenorth> I'm selling this mac and getting a new one if ebay is any guide
18:31:44 <andythenorth> I lose £200 on it
18:32:02 <Rubidium> a G5 still costs 250 euro?
18:32:41 <andythenorth> we've got a dual G5 in our office somewhere, and some flat panel imacs
18:33:10 <FLHerne> They're quite expensive. I was thinking of buying one, but I don't have the money
18:33:50 <andythenorth> sell mine for £950, buy the newest for £1150 :P
18:34:04 <andythenorth> but will it run ottd faster? :P
18:34:09 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: fullscreen mode is broken for me. If I drag the map the mouse hits the edge and stops
18:34:53 <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: which bug is that on the tracker?
18:35:05 <Alberth> andythenorth: lol, the license file is bigger than the source code :p
18:35:34 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: I can't replicate that
18:35:47 <Rhamphoryncus> I'll report it after I've finished writing up my current patch. It's much more interesting *g*
18:36:14 <andythenorth> although it did screw with my crazy 'adjust monitor to room light settings' app
18:36:21 <andythenorth> my screen is now totally orange
18:37:44 <andythenorth> Alberth: pixa would benefit from bettter layout, possibly splitting code (might be overkill), and....I need to document it :|
18:38:00 <andythenorth> but otherwise I met all the use cases I had
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18:44:31 <andythenorth> he's refusing to clean his teeth unless I make choo choos in ottd
18:44:35 <andythenorth> this is not good
18:45:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that is probably your own fault :p
18:45:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24027 /trunk/src/lang/ (croatian.txt czech.txt latvian.txt ukrainian.txt):
18:45:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 10 changes by VoyagerOne
18:45:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 1 changes by Eskymak
18:45:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 4 changes by Parastais
18:45:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 1 changes by edd_k
18:45:49 * NGC3982 feels alone in ursa major
18:45:55 * NGC3982 asks planetmaker to make a new system.
18:48:20 <Alberth> andythenorth: some examples and/or a regression test would be useful too :)
18:48:44 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium, andythenorth: wtf, I just tried scrolling in fullscreen and it worked fine. :P Did that code get any attention in the last month or so?
18:48:56 <andythenorth> he's learnt to say 'plane'
18:49:22 <andythenorth> my pixa time is limited now, I had two weeks holiday, but now I have to work 9am-10pm daily
18:50:04 <Alberth> that's a bad trade :(
18:50:27 <andythenorth> I have ~4 hours off in the middle to do kid stuff
18:50:39 <andythenorth> but not much python coding time :(
18:50:47 <Eddi|zuHause> you should work 9pm-10pm
18:50:55 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that is a nice idea :)
18:51:02 <Rhamphoryncus> ahhh, 9 hours with a 4 hour break in the middle
18:51:04 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: we'd all like that :)
18:51:22 * NGC3982 sings a shakespearian tune on being a lony spiral galaxy.
18:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause> 9h is still quite a long working day
18:51:33 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: 13 with break == 9 hours without
18:51:48 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: I believe I said that ;)
18:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause> from the "average" job i'd expect 7h + 1h break
18:52:09 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: I read it otherwise :)
18:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: your statement was ambiguous
18:53:17 * Belugas reaches out from the depths and snaps on the peanuts
18:53:23 * Rhamphoryncus also straps Eddi in front of his seizure inducer
18:53:27 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a Rama-Forunkel anyway?
18:53:58 <Alberth> Belugas: be quick, or andy's kid eats them all
18:55:02 <Rhamphoryncus> Belugas: you only need to get the ones that land high up. Kids are quite happy to eat peanuts off the floor and behind the couch.
18:55:42 <Belugas> urgh... mine takes them from the bag only...
18:55:47 <Belugas> and gives me those from the floor
18:58:54 * andythenorth has been learning just how much previously chewed food he will eat
18:59:30 <andythenorth> cheese is definitely acceptable, and chocolate, and melon
19:00:02 <Eddi|zuHause> not a thought i typically have...
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19:04:21 <andythenorth> you have cats? passably close...
19:07:45 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
19:37:17 <Rhamphoryncus> As opposed to dogs who'll eat anything
19:39:53 <Alberth> andythenorth: PixaImageLoader self.mask does not seem used
19:40:25 <andythenorth> I thought BANDIT used it :o
19:41:08 <Alberth> neither is self.origin
19:41:15 <andythenorth> L75 in flat_trailer.py
19:42:21 <andythenorth> I have an odd pattern where I 'parent' an options object to the PixaImageLoader obj
19:42:32 <andythenorth> I'm sure there's a better way, it was duck tape
19:44:12 <Alberth> that's setting it; I was talking about use :p pixa.py line 254 self.mask = mask is the only place where self.mask is mentioned
19:44:48 <andythenorth> possibly I did bad :o
19:45:48 <Alberth> test whether make_points gets new values for mask & origin?
19:46:16 <andythenorth> I'll have to add this to my TODO :)
19:46:44 <andythenorth> you should see the worse thing I did :)
19:47:10 <andythenorth> this makes a dep list out of nfo
19:47:21 <andythenorth> it's insanely faster than nmlc for the same task
19:48:10 <andythenorth> I figured wrt generating png filenames, the grf should just encode what it expects to see, then I parse that
19:48:21 <Alberth> len(line.split('.png')) <-- '.png' in line ?
19:48:36 <andythenorth> the first time the grf tries to compile, it explodes due to missing pngs :)
19:48:47 <andythenorth> that code is so dirty I'm proud
19:50:04 <Alberth> I never got why you'd check for deps at all
19:51:51 <Alberth> you know that graphics_results is always empty, right?
19:52:14 <Alberth> ie line 22 is a 'pass' :)
20:01:35 * Rhamphoryncus grimaces at ViewportSign::MarkDirty
20:02:07 <Rhamphoryncus> When tracing through a bug you really hate to find out it was justified :(
20:03:01 <andythenorth> Alberth: yeah, I ran into some issues with L22
20:03:21 <andythenorth> none of my nfo has pngs with 'cargo' in the name yet, so I stopped writing the script ;)
20:06:09 * Alberth deletes _PixaImageLoaderOptions
20:07:12 <andythenorth> no need for that class?
20:07:35 <andythenorth> I found I got more done when I stopped worrying so much about doing it right :)
20:07:37 <Alberth> not any more, I think
20:07:59 <andythenorth> I'll just apply the patch...and run the tests
20:09:41 <Alberth> I also ran all tests. They passed trivially ;)
20:09:57 <andythenorth> well BANDIT built it
20:10:31 <andythenorth> appears to work ;)
20:15:37 <Alberth> basically, my two added if x is None: x = self.x do the same as the class :)
20:17:09 <Alberth> euhm, that should be 3 cases, the crop_box should be there too
20:25:01 <frosch123> "soon" has an interesting meaning on the internet
20:31:15 <Alberth> you could write a thesis on it :)
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20:34:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i create the .png deps in my generator script, i.e. _before_ creating the nml
20:35:19 <andythenorth> output them from there then :)
20:35:41 <andythenorth> I can't quite do that, I'm writing them directly into nml with my template module
20:35:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i did that months ago
20:36:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i could try to load nmlc as a module and push the parse tree into it, instead of writing the nml
20:37:19 <Eddi|zuHause> or i could write out NFO :p
20:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause> nmlc spends 70 seconds just parsing the cets.nml file
20:38:00 <andythenorth> do you have many redundant lines of code, e.g. switches not called or such?
20:41:45 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's generated, of course it is 99% redundant
20:42:19 <frosch123> try to compress it, and look how small it becomes :p
20:43:55 <Eddi|zuHause> something around the size of the generator, i presume :p
20:46:06 <Eddi|zuHause> gzip makes it from 12.5MB to 0.5MB
20:47:15 <frosch123> only factor 25. hmm, that is less redundant than i expected
20:47:15 <Eddi|zuHause> looked at the wrong line, 8.3MB
20:47:40 <frosch123> 12.5->8.3 or 8.3->0.5? :p
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20:59:11 <Eddi|zuHause> xz makes it 0.25
21:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause> we have 83kB in .py files and 200kB in .pnml files
21:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> the table is 164kB
21:01:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so my initial guess of "roughly the size of the generator" hold
21:02:28 <Eddi|zuHause> no wait, misread again, 20kB in .pnml files
21:03:18 <Eddi|zuHause> overall something around 3.5kloc
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22:31:37 * Pikka greebling the A-Train :D
22:34:35 * andythenorth trying to reduce 286 outstanding tickets to <200 then go to bed :P
22:34:49 <andythenorth> I don't actually have to code for them, just move them around :P
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continue to next day ⏵
