IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-02-10
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08:12:01 <andythenorth> truck weight = length * constant * multiplier (set on per vehicle)
08:12:06 <andythenorth> ^ bit fricking magical no?
08:12:30 <andythenorth> bit 'fiddle magic numbers to get the result I want' ?
08:13:02 <dihedral> if length = 1m and 1m = 100KG * multiplier
08:13:42 <dihedral> i shall specify a multiplier of 0 for my ufo-truck-road-flyer-thingy
08:16:34 * andythenorth ponders varying the weight by type of truck body
08:16:52 <andythenorth> flat deck is lighter than refrigerated trailer
08:17:02 <andythenorth> too fine grained :P
08:26:16 <andythenorth> length * constant * truck type
08:34:26 <planetmaker> truck weight = length * truck_specific_constant * introduction_year / base_costs
08:34:38 <planetmaker> or simplified to truck_weight = truck_specific_constant
08:35:14 <planetmaker> if you have a per-vehicle factor you can skip all calculation and set weight directly
08:35:25 <planetmaker> All else is just making it magically complex without adding clarity
08:35:54 <peter1138> separate trailers! train-like depot!
08:38:18 <andythenorth> planetmaker: +1 on the badness of magic
08:38:57 <andythenorth> if I have to set magic multipliers, might as well just set weight :P
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08:44:42 <andythenorth> "There is no problem that cannot be made worse with another layer of indirection"
08:48:19 <planetmaker> andythenorth: in case of doubt you want to get a guide value by a formula. And fill in the actually used weight by hand directly which includes implicitly a "magic" andy-factor wrt the table-value based on your judgement what would fit
08:48:34 <planetmaker> thus: use a guide. But not a formula
08:52:32 <andythenorth> or I make it entirely derived, which I'm testing
08:52:39 <andythenorth> but not some mix of manually set / derived
08:52:42 <andythenorth> that would be horrible
08:53:22 <andythenorth> I've mixed set / derived for run cost, I'm not sure it's wise
08:53:58 <andythenorth> maybe I should remove that and just set run cost directly
08:54:56 <andythenorth> but then...what is the direct value for run cost? :o
08:55:09 <planetmaker> the property value
08:59:26 * Rhamphoryncus wonders if delayed departure due to sudden extra loading breaks timetables too
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11:09:49 * andythenorth has 100 emails to read and reply to
11:10:04 * andythenorth likes work, but mostly when it involves making the internet
11:10:11 <andythenorth> not when it involves email
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12:13:28 <peter1138> is your penis a porpoise?
12:16:55 <MNIM> why, it is on saturdays?
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12:30:38 <Stimrol_> hello, I had my openttd server hacked yesterday. Someone came in and joined all the password protected companies and destroyed them. I thought this was not possible. How can I prevent this?
12:31:43 <Ammler> Stimrol_: did you restart the server before?
12:32:01 <Stimrol_> I have searched google for answer but nothing there.
12:32:20 <Ammler> company passwords do not survive a reload
12:32:48 <Stimrol_> No, there was a user I know logged in while this was happening and he said that all the companies where still with passwords
12:33:26 <MNIM> ...why would one hack an ottd server? :S
12:33:29 <peter1138> "destroyed" in what way?
12:33:53 <Ammler> MNIM: does not really matter, does it?
12:33:59 <Stimrol_> Even his company was taken over and everything removed and the landscape destroyed to spend the money
12:34:11 * MNIM blarghs at griefers everywhere
12:34:23 <Stimrol_> mnim you do it because you can i suspect
12:34:24 <peter1138> autoclean can remove companies
12:34:38 <peter1138> and if someone knows your rcon password, they can switch companies too
12:34:49 <Stimrol_> they where not removed, and I could see the changes in the landscape
12:35:05 <peter1138> MNIM, griefing and trolling are a popular internet pasttime
12:35:06 <Ammler> true, maybe he knew the rcon pw
12:35:08 <planetmaker> still. With the rcon pw known one can move oneself to any company
12:35:23 <Stimrol_> rcon password is blank
12:35:31 <MNIM> in all my life, I still don't understand people who wantonly waste time just to make someone angry.
12:35:32 <planetmaker> it's a good password then ;-)
12:36:06 <planetmaker> I'd say the fault is then that no password was set for rcon
12:36:17 <Ammler> planetmaker: no, that would be a bug
12:36:17 <Stimrol_> don't you need another port to connect to rcon and is not rcon disabled if it has blank password?
12:36:31 <planetmaker> it should indeed. Not sure it is
12:36:33 <Ammler> we don't set rcon pw on our server either
12:37:16 <Ammler> hehe, maybe we should check it :-)
12:38:11 <Stimrol_> :) yes maybe we should, I was under the impression that if it was blank it worked like ubuntu root password, nobody knows that password if it has not been set
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12:38:49 <planetmaker> well. Maybe you can easily check?
12:39:03 <MNIM> uhh, how does one *not* set a root password? :S
12:39:07 <Stimrol_> rcon pass and admin pass are blank on my server
12:39:17 <MNIM> I mean, you can disable your root account, but you still need a root password.
12:40:05 <Stimrol_> ubuntu users use sudo to access root, and you can also do sudo root and then need no password.
12:40:28 <Stimrol_> except your own password
12:41:17 <Stimrol_> maybe I am doing mistake to have admin_password and rcon_password blank
12:41:48 *** Stimrol_ is now known as Stimrol
12:42:57 <Ammler> Stimrol: we can at least confirm that empty pw still does disable rcon
12:43:44 <Stimrol> thanks, I thought so but never checked :)
12:44:06 <Sacro> MNIM: you put in an invalid hash in /etc/shadow
12:44:42 <Ammler> Stimrol: can't you ask the "Hacker" how he did it?
12:44:46 <Stimrol> My friend who was on the server said this user came in and knew what he was doing, he joined the companies removed everything they built and changed the landscape a lot to finish their money
12:44:52 <MNIM> isn't that much like building a burglary proof house and then encasing the door in molten steel? :S
12:45:37 <peter1138> probably the companies weren't password protected. most likely explanation
12:46:03 <Ammler> and your friend simply wasn't aware of
12:46:13 <Stimrol> I would like to :), but one problem there is no log (i have not found any) and what happened had cleared my screen (was not in the buffer any more)
12:46:27 <Ammler> that the companies aren't passworded
12:46:30 <planetmaker> then my best bet is ^^
12:47:02 <peter1138> you should learn to finish your sentences, ammler :p
12:47:18 <Stimrol> that is a slight possibility that he was wrong about that, but I dopt it because it was like four companies all destroyed
12:47:27 <Ammler> well, I was continuing yours :-P
12:47:32 <planetmaker> your best protection is a) having an admin around or responding to admin requests and b) logging at least who joined
12:47:40 <planetmaker> and banning the IPs, if needed
12:48:35 <Stimrol> is there a way to have a log that logs who comes in and so, openttd --help does not show me that option
12:48:50 <Ammler> we piple console output to a file
12:49:03 <planetmaker> ./openttd -D | tee -a game.log
12:50:43 <peter1138> when did he check the companies were passworded?
12:50:48 <peter1138> the attacker could easily just have set one
12:52:01 <Stimrol> most likly they where with passwords because it was like 1960 and I start the server 1900 and I had not resetted the map
12:52:44 <Stimrol> when I came and saw this, then the users where trying to rebuild their companies, so no passwords where changed
12:53:20 <planetmaker> oh, if you're inside a company you don't notice a PW change
12:53:39 <Stimrol> Yes now I am sure they had password, because I remember joining one with pass
12:53:42 <planetmaker> and companies only have PWs set, if the users have PWs
12:54:39 <Stimrol> there was only one loged in while this happened, so another user logged in afterward and his pass had not been changed
12:57:47 <Stimrol> but thanks people, maybe I will sometime find out how this was done and how to prevent it
13:05:43 <Ammler> don't forget to bugreport
13:09:48 <Stimrol> yes, if I find something
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14:26:55 <Belugas> hello to you too, andythenorth
14:27:25 <Belugas> just that t's extremely rare that you call someone "sir" in french :)
14:27:36 * andythenorth remembers french :P
14:27:47 <andythenorth> monsieur Belugas !
14:28:01 <andythenorth> filling out security audits
14:28:48 <Belugas> well, if you are talking to me, please upper case the M of Monsieur. I'm not just anybody, me!
14:29:57 <andythenorth> do you have a backup generator? How much fuel does it hold?
14:30:02 <andythenorth> how often is it refuelled?
14:30:21 <planetmaker> (enough caps :-P ? )
14:30:56 <planetmaker> how often is the fuel for the caps lock key refueled?
14:32:01 <andythenorth> "please state the frequency"
14:33:11 <andythenorth> "we do not own the co-lo, we have a contract with 99.9% uptime guarantee and guaranteeing physical security"
14:33:18 <andythenorth> why can't I just put that? :P
14:33:33 * andythenorth is example of legalistic, blame passing culture :P
14:33:44 <Belugas> Mister planetmaker, ya salute ya!
14:36:36 * andythenorth wonders if he can spend rest of day converting FISH to pynml
14:36:42 <andythenorth> what would the boss say?
14:37:01 <Belugas> as long as he doe snot see what you're doing, nothing!
14:38:16 <andythenorth> he watches me all day
14:38:27 <andythenorth> all the time I am awake, he can see me
14:38:33 <planetmaker> is he sitting in your chair?
14:38:42 <andythenorth> if I'm sitting there, he is sitting there :(
14:38:53 <andythenorth> anyone else work for themselves?
14:45:03 <Belugas> that's one of the [problems I had devving from work. Pascal and C++ do not have excatly the same "shape", so it's quite easy you're not doing work@work...
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18:39:58 <frosch123> what? was the forum offline all day? why is there no new posts in suggestions or problems forum?
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18:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23921 /trunk/src/lang/ (english_AU.txt estonian.txt french.txt latvian.txt):
18:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_AU - 5 changes by tomas4g
18:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 55 changes by Jaanus
18:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 13 changes by OliTTD
18:45:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 1 changes by Parastais
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19:00:25 <Alberth> all questions were clear to all :p
19:09:03 <andythenorth> frosch123: maybe the world ended, but we didn't notice?
19:09:33 <andythenorth> also...no replies to my python+nml thread :o
19:09:38 <andythenorth> definitely, the world ended
19:09:51 <Alberth> perhaps the internet died
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19:12:20 <frosch123> evening fellow zombies .)
19:16:38 * andythenorth wonders if he should code BROS
19:16:52 <andythenorth> possibly that would lead to bad comments
19:17:38 <supermop> do it before anyone has a chance to say anything
19:22:30 <Terkhen> andythenorth: code the spain set :)
19:23:48 <Ammler> spain set has 32bpp sprites too :-)
19:26:04 <andythenorth> Terkhen: is no-one coding the spain set already?
19:27:44 <Terkhen> maquinista is coding it, but busy with RL IIRC
19:27:50 <Terkhen> so I'll have to be patient :P
19:28:19 <andythenorth> is it nml or nfo?
19:28:20 <Alberth> or find more coders ;)
19:29:06 <supermop> give me a week more drawing and you can code a monorail set for me
19:29:42 <andythenorth> Terkhen: convert it to nml
19:30:28 <Terkhen> I'll wait a few more months
19:30:31 <Terkhen> it's not like I can play now anyways
19:31:23 <andythenorth> how do I compile with nml?
19:31:34 <andythenorth> pure nmlc, no makefile
19:32:31 <andythenorth> so no switches needed :P
19:32:41 <Alberth> you can see the options by using nmlc -h, but it does not have many
19:33:09 * andythenorth was overcomplicating it
19:34:00 <Alberth> you forgot the --i-need-more-options option?
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19:53:04 <andythenorth> bye bye Guest2167
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