IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-02-02
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03:09:06 <Eddi|zuHause> did the forum just die?
03:09:35 <NullByte> not from my perspective
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03:45:49 <Eddi|zuHause> if 8 "distance"-hours equals 1 "travel"-hour, what average speed does this make?
03:54:53 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, if you assume 2 "distance"-hours = 1 mile, and 1 mile = 7500m (german "metric" mile), then this yields 30km/h
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08:18:42 <dihedral> o dear lord, what a terrible backlog :-P
08:20:15 <Rhamphoryncus> You just can't shut me up!
08:22:44 <Elukka> so many sprites to draw
08:24:04 <Rhamphoryncus> so many codes to write
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08:26:48 <Elukka> 24 sprite angles and asymmetric wagons ;_;
08:29:18 <Eddi|zuHause> just make the symmetric wagons, and add the braker's cab later?
08:34:40 <Rhamphoryncus> Eddi|zuHause: On further thought you were right about not checking vehicles still loading at the previous station
08:36:10 <Elukka> well, the wagon body is usually shorter at the end with the platform/cab
08:36:22 <andythenorth> can my python script import nmlc and build the grf?
08:36:24 <Elukka> on the next wagon i'm gonna see if i can get away with a symmetric one though
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08:59:39 <andythenorth> nmlc is not in my system path for modules
08:59:54 * andythenorth is just stabbing at this :P
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09:12:39 <Rhamphoryncus> What the.. you can have a shared order list of only one vehicle? o.O
09:15:20 <andythenorth> shared order list is just a set
09:25:50 <Rhamphoryncus> Heh. Got some mysterious extra debugging prints. They were from the loadscreen game ;)
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09:56:52 <chester> hi all, do graphviz work in ottd wiki or what?
10:02:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think anybody ever tried that yet
10:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> probably you need to bug someone to enable an extension for that
10:06:42 <chester> and Talk:Cargo has it
10:07:15 <Eddi|zuHause> right... problem solved then :(
10:07:22 <chester> but i cant make any other graph
10:08:08 <chester> furthermore when i change 1 letter in original one, it doesnt show
10:09:19 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it doesn't trigger generating the image?
10:09:38 <chester> how to make it show then
10:09:52 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, that is outside my area of expertise
10:10:16 <Eddi|zuHause> my "area of expertise" generally ends with "there exists a solution" :)
10:10:18 <chester> is there any flag or smth forcing rendering
10:11:27 <chester> -are you expert in SQL? -no -nevermind, wright 'expert in NoSQL'
10:12:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i try to avoid SQL as good as i can, but that's probably not what you mean :p
10:12:39 <chester> it was a citation from some comics
10:13:34 <chester> wikimedia says nothing abt this, i can only get graphs @my local pc
10:14:07 <chester> i dont even know which version is included there and options avail
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10:55:36 * Rhamphoryncus ponders a helper function to make next_shared/previous_shared cyclic, so he can reorder, then make it acyclic again
11:00:40 <Eddi|zuHause> don't you just need a flip() function?
11:01:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and add a NextSharedCyclic() and PrevSharedCyclic()?
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11:02:43 <Rhamphoryncus> I was writing out all the branches for updating the previous/next/first/last pointers and it's ending up as 4 cases of 6 lines each. Plus a check that there's at least 3 vehicles to swap
11:06:02 <Rhamphoryncus> down to a total of 3 lines, plus a call to MakeCyclic/MakeAcyclic at the top and bottom of the function
11:06:57 <Rhamphoryncus> Actually, those helpers are only 2 lines each, plus 2 assertions. I could just as well merge them in.
11:07:35 <Eddi|zuHause> keep them separate and make them inline
11:07:51 <Rhamphoryncus> static inline void
11:08:03 <Eddi|zuHause> something like that, yes
11:08:06 <Rhamphoryncus> Now I just need to make C++ accept them :P
11:18:18 <Rhamphoryncus> ... I can't have a static inline method in a .cpp file and if I put it in the header I don't have the right other headers pulled in x_x
11:21:14 <Rhamphoryncus> nor can I include vehicle_base.h since it's already including order_base.h
11:23:22 <Eddi|zuHause> why shouldn't you have static inline function in the .cpp file?
11:24:13 <Eddi|zuHause> of course, "static" means something completely different inside a class
11:24:55 <Rhamphoryncus> static inline *functions* are fine. Methods it chokes on because they're not declared in the class
11:25:48 <Rhamphoryncus> interesting point though, I had blindly copied the static keyword in to the class for the declaration. When I later tried to move the whole definition there I removed it, but I never tried the declaration without it.
11:26:02 <Rhamphoryncus> Nope, that chokes too
11:26:33 <Rhamphoryncus> /home/rhamph/src/openttd/easyschedule.hg/src/order_cmd.cpp:523:42: error: cannot declare member function ‘void OrderList::MakeCyclic()’ to have static linkage [-fpermissive]
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11:48:58 <Rhamphoryncus> Looks like C++ won't do what I want. Either I use a private inline method or a static inline non-method
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12:36:49 <dihedral> looks like you want to do something you should not want to do :-P or you are thinking too complicated
12:40:13 <Rhamphoryncus> It'd be good coding style in C. In C++ it seems to be "eh, don't bother"
12:40:35 <Eddi|zuHause> it's inherently difficult to make methods inline
12:40:44 <Eddi|zuHause> because they could be overridden and stuff
12:40:59 <Eddi|zuHause> so you need to make them private
12:41:23 <Rhamphoryncus> But there's two reasons for it in C: one is to avoid name conflicts, the other is actually be private. C++ doesn't seem to actually allow the latter :P
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13:11:29 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... can we have a string-code "{SPRITE}"?
13:13:13 <andythenorth> where is it needed?
13:13:38 * andythenorth explores os.subprocess as a way to call nmlc from a python script
13:13:54 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you "import nmlc"?
13:15:44 <andythenorth> probably, if I set my search path
13:16:19 <andythenorth> I guess it's not currently in my python module search paths
13:16:38 <Eddi|zuHause> sys.path.append(blah)?
13:18:24 <andythenorth> nmlc is aliased from /opt/local/bin/
13:18:34 <andythenorth> I've added sys.path.append('/opt/local/bin/')
13:18:38 <andythenorth> but nmlc is not found
13:19:17 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it'll only search for .py files
13:19:27 <Eddi|zuHause> you'll need to import main.py
13:21:17 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, if you "make install"-ed it, you should be able to do "from nml import main"
13:21:59 <andythenorth> I don't trust things too well where I have to sudo
13:22:03 <andythenorth> makes me itch every time
13:22:12 <andythenorth> I've aliased it currently
13:22:20 <andythenorth> if I set the actual path to nml src, I can import
13:22:33 <Eddi|zuHause> well, then you have to set the path
13:22:37 <andythenorth> that's kind of local to me though :P
13:27:20 <Eddi|zuHause> after you "from nml import main"-ed, you'll probably want to run "main.main(args)"
13:28:16 <andythenorth> what should args be? :)
13:29:00 <Eddi|zuHause> an array of what you would give after nmlc
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13:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you'd write "nmlc --nfo cets.nfo cets.nml" then you'd call "main.main(['--nfo','cets.nfo','cets.nml'])"
13:31:58 <Eddi|zuHause> like "cmdline.split(' ')[1:]" (roughly)
13:33:01 <Eddi|zuHause> if you'd call nmlc like usual, it would pass "argv[1:]" to main()
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14:20:55 <Elukka> ugh. there was a very nice company color replacement grf+patch somewhere in the forums recently but i can't for the life of me find it now
14:23:40 <expekt> Hi! I have some problems with Saved Game Manager. I cant open any save gamed?
14:26:09 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a saved game manager?
14:26:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and what error message do you get?
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14:29:20 <expekt> the program dosen't find the saved game
14:29:45 <expekt> it it also the same problem with TTD Alter and TTDX Editor
14:30:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think they were everintended to work with openttd savegames
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14:46:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... do articulated parts issue effect vehicles?
14:47:25 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i do remember it steaming from 3 places in the original dummy vehicle
14:47:40 <andythenorth> but it seems to be failing
14:48:30 <Eddi|zuHause> must be behind the "python script.py" line
14:48:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the "GENERATE=" line is only the dependencies
14:49:55 <Eddi|zuHause> also make sure the makefile doesn't try to expand the ${} sections
14:50:04 <andythenorth> :Q seems to stop that
14:52:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean more like enclose it in '' or so
14:52:37 * andythenorth has been trying to figure out what I need to google for this
14:53:07 <andythenorth> search strings like 'pass command line args from makefile' get me 10 million results about passing command line args *to* makefile :P
15:05:06 <andythenorth> doesn't look very maintained though
15:06:16 <Elukka> i've been using long vehicles v4 since forever
15:06:49 <Elukka> are there any alternative road vehicle sets that are maybe a bit more useful than vanilla vehicles and a bit more real looking than them or grvts?
15:08:21 <andythenorth> Elukka: can you draw trucks?
15:08:45 <Elukka> posssssibly but i already have way too many wagons to draw and i'm getting them done way too slowly :P
15:08:50 <Eddi|zuHause> he must first draw wagons :p
15:09:29 <andythenorth> in that case he can stop playing the game anyway
15:09:47 * andythenorth reads docs for codecs
15:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone split off the horse carriages from eGRVTS yet?
15:10:06 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: presumably to avoid unicode sadface? ^^
15:10:25 <andythenorth> also writing streams and such
15:10:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: germanrv is nice, but unfortunately the trucks aren't done yet
15:11:27 <Elukka> aw, and hungarian set only starts in 1950
15:12:33 <Eddi|zuHause> why did you link that thread? now i'm getting a petert flashback...
15:12:58 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you never hang out in #openttdcoop.devzone?
15:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, why would i?
15:13:20 <andythenorth> you see the CETS commits somewhere else? or you don't care?
15:13:48 <Elukka> is there a juicy story i don't know
15:14:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i wanted the commits per email, but apparently nobody figured that out yet... Ammler?
15:15:18 <andythenorth> or your mail reader can read rss in some cases
15:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause> # sie müssen erst den nippel durch die lasche ziehn
15:15:48 <Eddi|zuHause> # und an der kleinen kurbel ganz nach oben drehn
15:16:01 <Eddi|zuHause> # dann erscheint sofort ein pfeil, da drücken sie dann drauf
15:16:16 <Eddi|zuHause> # und dann, geht die tube auf...
15:16:20 <andythenorth> definitely english :P
15:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause> according to mr-english-only, it's ok if it's quotes or music :p#
15:20:37 <andythenorth> or if it's spanish
15:20:46 <andythenorth> or python, or c++ or nfo or nml
15:23:27 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, it's a song about how things are totally overcomplicated
15:24:11 <andythenorth> first [blah blah] put the small thing [blah] etc
15:24:29 <andythenorth> I think I've murdered cpp in BANDIT
15:24:33 <andythenorth> not sure how to test
15:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 256*255/74
15:26:01 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 882.162162162
15:26:05 <Ammler> andythenorth: nobody wants commits per mail ;-)
15:26:55 * Eddi|zuHause misses a right-click->slap button...
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15:31:20 <andythenorth> forums [code] block strips \ from \n
15:33:54 <Eddi|zuHause> both the '' and the \\ are reflex-solutions i always try before asking anybody else for help :)
15:34:16 <Ammler> someone already "played" with phase on hg 2.1?
15:35:22 * andythenorth wonders how to patch makefile to avoid cpp
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16:27:45 <Ammler> andythenorth: CC="cc.py"
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16:43:43 * andythenorth needs a basic valid NML project
16:43:48 <andythenorth> for example purposes
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17:33:48 <andythenorth> do I need to call close() on a a file I've opened as read only (python)
17:34:54 <Mazur> In the interest of clean programming, I'd say yes.
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17:38:27 <SpComb> andythenorth: you can also do `with open(...) as myfile: ...`
17:38:58 <SpComb> and if you do something like `data = open(...).read()` there's not really any need to explicitly close() it
17:39:14 <SpComb> but if you do `self.thatfile = open(..)`, then yes, do explicitly close it and clear the reference
17:39:46 <SpComb> python refcounting guarantees you that the file object will be closed once you drop all references to it
17:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd have some reservations towards relying on refcounting
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17:53:39 <Eddi|zuHause> you're a guinea pig now?
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18:13:14 <andythenorth> writing tutorials is surprisingly hard work
18:13:19 <andythenorth> even when they're not that good
18:13:25 * andythenorth could never be a teacher
18:14:29 * andythenorth looks for a collaborator :P
18:14:58 <andythenorth> Terkhen: how is your python?
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18:16:52 * andythenorth needs someone who knows some NML but limited python
18:17:07 <Terkhen> worse than my free time :P
18:17:16 <Rhamphoryncus> "with open(...) as myfile:" is definitely the preferred way as it guarantees it's closed, but otherwise it's not worth the trouble unless you're doing it in a loop and something like java might run out of file handles before it triggers a collection
18:17:25 <Rhamphoryncus> Or you're on windows and file locks prevent other work
18:17:31 <Terkhen> right now I have to fix FS#5039
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18:45:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23875 /trunk/src/lang/ (dutch.txt french.txt lithuanian.txt):
18:45:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 3 changes by Parody
18:45:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 53 changes by OliTTD
18:45:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 21 changes by Stabilitronas
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19:10:30 <Terkhen> even with the fix, industry subsidies are quite rare
19:12:25 <andythenorth> NewSubsidy framework!
19:12:29 <andythenorth> newgrf subsidies!
19:14:00 <Terkhen> yeah, I suppose that NoGo is the real fix for that :)
19:14:20 <Alberth> Terkhen: not enough opportunities at the right distance?
19:15:10 <Alberth> ie compared with towns, industries are quite picky about who they want to share cargo with :)
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19:29:49 <Jensen1986> Can someone please help me with a problem?
19:31:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: terkhen * r23876 /trunk/src/subsidy.cpp: -Fix (r23408) [FS#5039]: Generate industry subsidies again. (Emmeran)
19:31:25 <DorpsGek> Terkhen: English only
19:31:28 <DorpsGek> Terkhen: 'Latest' is not a valid version, ever
19:31:34 <Terkhen> Jensen1986: just ask your question
19:31:58 <Jensen1986> how do i take control of an AI company in TTD?
19:32:13 <Terkhen> activate cheats and move yourself to the AI company
19:32:26 <Terkhen> that can be done in OpenTTD, no clue about TTD
19:32:32 <Jensen1986> not by buying their shares. I mean to take control and rearrange busses ect.
19:33:16 <Alberth> In OpenTTD, like Terkhen says
19:33:42 <Jensen1986> The difference between OpenTTD and TTD is?
19:34:00 <Rhamphoryncus> One has been worked on this millenium? ;)
19:34:49 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: wasn't it 1984?
19:35:02 <Rhamphoryncus> I was including windows versions
19:35:02 <Jensen1986> I'm using TTDX editor... Is that the same?
19:35:41 <Rhamphoryncus> And as long as it hasn't been touched in 2001 or later my statement is right
19:35:43 <Alberth> Jensen1986: not even close
19:35:53 * Alberth believes Rhamphoryncus
19:36:25 <Alberth> Jensen1986: both games may look the same, but internally they are totally different
19:36:31 <Jensen1986> hehe. You wouldn't believe me if i told you ive been playing this game for 10 years or so with my knowledge of it
19:36:53 <Alberth> yeah, it's addictive :)
19:37:14 <Alberth> wait until you try OpenTTD, and find all the nice additions that were made ;)
19:37:32 <Jensen1986> I dont want to start a new game over again :(
19:38:07 <Alberth> OpenTTD is quite compatible, I would not be surprised if your game loaded
19:38:51 <Jensen1986> really? If i try loading it and it doesnt work will the saved game still work in TTD?
19:39:32 <Alberth> I would expect so, unless you save a new version over it
19:39:41 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: wikipedia says 94 and deluxe in 95
19:39:42 <Alberth> but make a copy beforehand, just to be safe
19:40:07 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: Ah, I was only 10 years off :D Thanks for looking it up
19:40:42 * Alberth wonders what game was in 1984 then :p
19:40:59 <planetmaker> Jensen1986: you'll surely want to keep a copy of the original savegame, don't you?
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19:42:38 <Jensen1986> Can i change the same thing in OpenTT as with TTDX editor?
19:45:34 <Alberth> but yes, I think you can. I have never done much with the editor though, but on general, OpenTTD is expanding on functionality, and very reluctant on throwing stuff out
19:47:48 <Jensen1986> nice. Gotta try that. I know this has been debated over and over. But why is it you cant have more than 4.3 billion in cash. Why dont the rewrite the game to 64 bit`?
19:48:27 <Alberth> it compiles and runs at 64bit
19:49:07 <Jensen1986> but you still cant have more than 4.3 billion? I thought it had something to do with that?
19:49:09 <Alberth> 'billion' is about 1,000,000,000 ?
19:49:36 <Alberth> oh, in that case, OpenTTD can do approximately:
19:49:41 <DorpsGek> Alberth: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
19:49:48 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 1152921504606846976
19:49:57 <Alberth> give or take a few bits :)
19:50:21 <Jensen1986> yes it is. so in OpenTT you can have much more money`?
19:50:53 <Alberth> it's OpenTTD (with a D at the end), but yeah
19:51:15 <Alberth> I never even got at 2**32 though
19:52:05 <Jensen1986> With my current game its not a problem. But one i used to play made me 3 billion a year. So i had to go to the edtitor and set my money to 0 in order to keep playing.
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19:53:07 <Alberth> @calc 1152921504606846976 / 3000000000
19:53:07 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 384307168.203
19:53:38 <Alberth> enough to keep playing for the 5,000,000 years that OpenTTD allows :p
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19:54:38 <Jensen1986> wow. I'll bet someone did. What a nerd:)
19:55:19 <Alberth> @calc 5000000 * 13 / 60 / 24
19:55:19 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 45138.8888889
19:55:25 <planetmaker> well. also then you can continue to play. Just the year won't advance ;-)
19:55:52 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 123.665753425
19:56:07 <andythenorth> planetmaker: is it an easy change for me to disable cpp step of makefile?
19:56:12 <andythenorth> (to see what happens)
19:56:32 <Alberth> 'touch' the generated output file?
19:57:15 <Alberth> although 13 minutes is somewhat optimistic, in reality a game year takes a bit longer
19:57:19 <planetmaker> well... the dependency also relies on it. But you can edit-out that step. And you'll have to rewrite the rule for the nml file which uses cpp to generated it from the pnml file
19:57:45 <andythenorth> I should learn how to do that anyway
19:57:50 <andythenorth> it's good for me :P
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19:57:56 <Alberth> make -n ? then copy/paste what you want to run
19:58:04 <Jensen1986> how long is a year in TTD ?
19:58:27 <planetmaker> ~calc 30 * 74 / 60
19:58:33 <planetmaker> @calc 30 * 74 / 60
19:58:36 <Alberth> I don't know about TTD
19:58:54 <Alberth> the number of ticks/day is probably different
19:58:55 <planetmaker> @calc 0.03 * 74 * 365
19:58:59 <planetmaker> @calc 0.03 * 74 * 365 / 60
19:59:05 <planetmaker> ^ minutes in OpenTTD
19:59:11 <planetmaker> TTD might be 10% faster
19:59:38 <Jensen1986> ok. But thanks for all your help. Gotta go.
20:02:14 * andythenorth adventures in makefile
20:02:17 <andythenorth> it's pretty impressive
20:05:59 <Alberth> You are at a rule that depends on another rule, what do you want to do?
20:20:28 <Alberth> planetmaker: how is the closebox X defined in big GUI?
20:20:28 <Alberth> In the code, it computes maxdim(GetStringBoundingBox(STR_BLACK_CROSS), GetStringBoundingBox(STR_SILVER_CROSS)); as size, while the sticky box does maxdim(GetSpriteSize(SPR_PIN_UP), GetSpriteSize(SPR_PIN_DOWN));
20:20:28 <Alberth> It looks like the text-sizes are still not functioning
20:20:57 <Alberth> (while sprites do work)
20:22:06 <peter1138> i have a wip patch for all that stuff...
20:22:10 * Rubidium wonders what made Jensen think OpenTTD "only" supports 2**32 in money
20:22:29 <peter1138> text-sizes are always based on the specified size, not the size of sprites
20:22:35 <Alberth> (and thinks both games are the same :) )
20:22:50 <Rubidium> Alberth: in TTD it was 2**31 (you can have negative money as well)
20:23:48 <planetmaker> Alberth: it's a font sprite iirc
20:24:12 <planetmaker> the text size calculation might ignore the special chars
20:24:27 <planetmaker> and... tbh, Alberth, IMHO the X for windows should be a normal sprite, not a font sprite
20:24:32 <planetmaker> would make it much easier
20:24:33 <peter1138> it never calculates height
20:25:04 <Alberth> planetmaker: that also holds for the arrows imho
20:25:10 <peter1138> problem with making it a sprite is it has a shadow
20:25:21 <peter1138> and it is recoloured for the news window
20:25:28 <peter1138> however, i did make all the arrows sprites
20:25:41 <planetmaker> Alberth: maybe... but the funny thing is: it's not always broken. Like for the sprite picker (newgrf debug)
20:25:42 <peter1138> "i have a patch for that...."
20:26:04 <planetmaker> peter1138: the adv. settings currently look ugly with it
20:26:24 <peter1138> it's never "broken"
20:26:45 <peter1138> for the windows where it's different, it's always because they have other buttons as well
20:27:32 <Alberth> planetmaker: it has a sticky button
20:27:55 <Alberth> planetmaker: I removed the sticky button from the airport toolbar, and it failed
20:28:47 <Alberth> ie the big size of the sticky button forces the whole titlebar to be high
20:30:01 <Alberth> (mostly as someone made the X not larger than the pin :p )
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21:17:06 * andythenorth dismisses XML as a good data format :P
21:17:30 <Alberth> oh, for machines, it's very good :)
21:17:52 <Alberth> problem is that people think they are machines too :)
21:17:57 <Rubidium> for machines it's bad
21:18:04 <andythenorth> needless parsing
21:18:13 <andythenorth> machines like name / value pairs, without endless scaffolding :P
21:18:31 <Rhamphoryncus> How hard is it to add new windows and buttons and such?
21:18:37 <andythenorth> very very very hard
21:18:40 <Rubidium> for communication between independently developed systems that needs easy extensibility it's something else
21:19:13 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: you have a lot of experience in openttd innards?
21:19:21 <andythenorth> only the industry bits
21:19:25 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: new windows (ie making a new unique combinations of buttons and such that fills a rectangle) not so difficult
21:19:38 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: *nods*
21:19:47 <andythenorth> XML as an input to newgrf templating would be bonkers
21:19:53 <andythenorth> I'd just end up templating it :P
21:20:00 <Alberth> making a new button itself is harder, internally lots of size computations are performed
21:20:36 <Alberth> although for elementary things like a close box it is pretty simple too :)
21:20:47 <Alberth> as they have a fixed size :)
21:20:48 <Rhamphoryncus> So I have it in for myself
21:21:10 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus: how hard is it to solve \int_{-\infty}^\infty e^{-x^2} dx ?
21:21:12 * Rubidium smells somewhat of a desync
21:21:40 <Rhamphoryncus> planetmaker: well that doesn't render in xchat, so I'd say pretty hard is a safe bet ;)
21:21:50 <planetmaker> it's very hard for most people, I assume. But a minority will find it easy. Maybe a majority here
21:21:53 <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: it renders nicely ;)
21:22:00 <Rubidium> and it's easy to solve
21:22:13 <Rubidium> if you know the right tools
21:22:38 <Alberth> it looks like something that is most likely easy :)
21:22:47 <Rhamphoryncus> related: loading old savegames is critical, but otherwise it is possible to change what gets saved?
21:23:11 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: that's what savegame versions are for :p
21:23:12 <planetmaker> that's what savegame versions are for. yes
21:24:25 <Rhamphoryncus> I worry I'd have to overcome a lot of inertia if I overhaul how orders/timetables are managed, since there's so much history in ttd
21:25:20 <Alberth> oh, it's -(x^2) and not (-x)^2, that makes it much easier :)
21:26:24 <Rubidium> oh come on... still not pasted in wolfram?
21:27:28 <Rhamphoryncus> Couldn't remember the name, heh
21:28:58 <Rubidium> it's easy to remember
21:29:24 <Rubidium> want to see the light? -> old lamps were made with tungsten aka wolfram
21:29:53 <planetmaker> Alberth: not really nicer. But more often used ;-)
21:29:55 <Rhamphoryncus> Oh is that what it's named after..
21:31:42 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: what kind of new button do you have in mind?
21:31:57 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: all of them :P
21:32:09 <andythenorth> so why would that fail to return a result?
21:32:27 <andythenorth> or rather, why would that return 0xFF?
21:32:29 <Rhamphoryncus> I haven't fully decided yet. I've been playing with different approaches to maintaining a schedule
21:32:35 <planetmaker> 0xFF is no valid CB result, andy
21:32:40 <planetmaker> use the in-built constants
21:32:48 <andythenorth> wonder where I got that from :o
21:33:47 <Rhamphoryncus> But I need to handle the current timing in a different way, so I can easily compare across different points in the order list
21:33:54 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: with "button" I mean a really new type of button, like a maximize button or so. If you want variations of existing buttons (eg one with a different text), that's what I consider 'window'
21:34:20 <andythenorth> also it's just bad logic no?
21:34:28 <andythenorth> a graphics chain should always end on graphics
21:34:45 <Rhamphoryncus> New elements might include a way to pick out delays with the mouse, rather than having to enter text for the number of days
21:34:53 <Rhamphoryncus> Mostly just window right now though
21:35:05 <andythenorth> but why would cargo_classes not return a result in range 0-255?
21:35:15 <Rubidium> you can already set the times without the keyboard
21:35:24 <Rubidium> (the physical keyboard that is)
21:35:30 <planetmaker> andythenorth: still, then return the default graphics
21:35:46 <andythenorth> it's only happening for Wool cargo
21:36:00 <andythenorth> wondered if the class bitmask was somehow odd?
21:36:10 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: click order, click change time, click...
21:36:31 <planetmaker> depends on what you want to check, andythenorth
21:36:38 <planetmaker> if you want to check PAX, rather use
21:36:49 <planetmaker> cargo_classes & bitmask(CC_PASSENGERS)
21:37:07 <planetmaker> and then check for 1 and 0 (as default)
21:37:12 <andythenorth> ok so that's the equivalent of an nfo mask?
21:37:43 <planetmaker> it's simply how boolean logic works in... python
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21:41:00 <andythenorth> if I want to check a range of classes, can I & with a list? :P
21:42:10 <Rubidium> depends whether the classes are a bitmask or not
21:43:23 <Rubidium> a & b simply returns the intersection of the bits, so you can then relatively easy check whether no bits intersect, at least one bit intersects or all bits intersect
21:44:00 <Alberth> andythenorth: iirc 'bitmask' is a function that takes a list of bit numbers, and produces a mask
21:44:02 <Rubidium> (all set bits that is, of 'a' or 'b')
21:44:22 * andythenorth explores NML docs more
21:44:22 * andythenorth guesses that bitmask(list) might be the case
21:45:26 * Alberth wonders how to create a bitmask with a one-liner in Python
21:48:37 <andythenorth> Alberth: are you playing the one line python game? :P
21:48:37 <andythenorth> doesn't always end well
21:48:37 <andythenorth> "just because you could, doesn't mean you should" :)
21:49:03 <Alberth> at IRC, everything is allowed :p
21:49:53 <andythenorth> Alberth: try rewriting my build script in one line?
21:49:57 <andythenorth> probably possible
21:50:05 <andythenorth> might violate PEP 8 horribly :P
21:50:05 <Alberth> reduce(lambda x,y:x+y, [1 << n for n in bit_list], 0)
21:50:41 <Alberth> IRC line length is not sufficient :p
21:52:23 <Alberth> also I have not really looked at what you are writing, as it constantly says "skip this if you know it already" :)
21:52:37 <andythenorth> allowing for imports to be on another line, I think a grf can be templated and built with one line
21:52:38 <andythenorth> I keep trying not to do tutorial, then I do
21:53:30 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: is this something a set would solve?
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21:55:38 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: 'this' ?
21:56:01 <Rhamphoryncus> I don't fully understand the discussion so I'm just throwing that out there
21:56:21 <Alberth> bitmasks are sets in fact, conveniently stored in an integer
21:56:45 <Alberth> so computers can easily work with it, move it around, etc
21:57:37 <Rhamphoryncus> But you're talking about how to do it in python
21:58:39 <Alberth> if you want to go to NFO, you eventually have to go to integer format anyway
21:59:01 <Alberth> besides, also in Python, integers are faster than generic sets of arbitrary objects
21:59:50 <Alberth> andythenorth: os.path.join(currentdir, "sprites/nml") ---> os.path.join(currentdir, "sprites", "nml") / placement is exactly what os.path.join is for :)
22:00:36 <andythenorth> I should replace those then?
22:00:52 <Alberth> if (len(sys.argv) > 1): <-- no parentheses around conditions, they are not needed
22:01:16 <andythenorth> I pasted that from an example :P
22:01:28 <andythenorth> is this ok? sys.path.append('sprites/nml') # add to the module search path
22:01:40 <Alberth> lines 25/27 have different indent than 30+
22:01:58 <Alberth> it is however very much not recommended
22:02:23 <Alberth> you should do it with PYTHONPATH outside the script
22:02:32 <andythenorth> I'm mixing 2s and 4s on spaces. dunno why
22:03:31 <andythenorth> PYTHONPATH -> command line args -m ?
22:04:23 <andythenorth> think I'm reading the docs wrong
22:04:42 <Alberth> class Trailer: <-- needs inheriting from object then class Trailer(object):
22:05:53 <Alberth> self.properties['refittable_classes'] = standard_class_refits['default']['allow'] <-- why not simple instance vars? self.refittable_classes = ... ?
22:06:31 <Alberth> # used for the purchase menu <-- triple-quoted doc-strings?
22:07:04 <andythenorth> doc-strings for defs?
22:07:21 * Alberth uses epydoc standard for that
22:07:36 <Alberth> usually the text is longer than the code :)
22:07:46 <andythenorth> I'll read epydoc
22:08:18 <andythenorth> why not simple instance vars? <- for convenience when using them in the template
22:08:28 <andythenorth> it (nearly) everything is in vehicle.properties, it's easier
22:08:37 <Alberth> vehicles = [Truckid=i,properties=j for i,j in vehicles_dict.iteritems()]
22:08:58 <Alberth> oh missing parentheses with Truck, sorry
22:09:00 <andythenorth> oh the one line game :)
22:09:19 <Alberth> Truck(id=i,properties=j)
22:09:21 <andythenorth> let's use a comprehension :P
22:09:26 <andythenorth> they always make me feel smart
22:09:40 <Alberth> imho these cases make sense
22:10:56 <andythenorth> class Trailer: <-- needs inheriting from object then class Trailer(object) <- this is the only thing I didn't understand so far...?
22:11:40 <Alberth> you could make constants TRUCK_CAPACITY = 'truck_capacity' and use the upper-case constant everywhere
22:12:02 <andythenorth> it's worth considering
22:12:38 <Alberth> class Trailer: is an old-style class, obsolete since 2.0 iirc class Trailer(object): is a new-style class. It behaves nicer
22:12:55 <andythenorth> so it's just explicit what it inherits from?
22:13:19 <Alberth> no, it is really different, old-style don't inherit from object at all
22:14:39 <Alberth> in python3, 'object' inheriting is default I think, so there it is "classTrailer:" again :) (but you need to check that, I am not sure)
22:16:20 <Alberth> your paths at the end also have /-es in them, which should be composed by os.path.join instead (so win* users also have good paths)
22:17:05 <Alberth> yw, if you want I can take another look at it this weekend or so; this was a quick one
22:17:17 <Rhamphoryncus> Augh, FormatString is recursive? And not just one way but multiple ways? I can already hear the headache sneaking up on me
22:18:29 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: just make nice strings like in src/lang/english.txt :)
22:18:45 <Alberth> no need to dig in the details of rendering characters
22:19:10 <Rhamphoryncus> I was just exploring how the API works. "a calls b, b calls c, c, calls d, d calls b, b calls b..."
22:19:25 <Rhamphoryncus> Actually that skips several steps I don't understand yet :P
22:19:59 <Alberth> which 'the' API? I am sure there are more than one :)
22:22:51 * andythenorth just thought of something truly horrible
22:23:10 <andythenorth> write globals to a file while running the script, then have the templates import them :o
22:23:15 <Terkhen> going to sleep is not that horrible
22:23:15 <andythenorth> that's disgusting
22:23:58 * andythenorth will go to sleep and stop thinking of python abuses
22:27:05 <Rhamphoryncus> If you're using exec you can inject them directly, no need for an external file
22:30:08 <valhallasw> why use exec if you have globals()?
22:30:38 <valhallasw> and locals(), but in any case - you have a dict representing all local/global variables
22:37:06 <Rhamphoryncus> exec lets you load the templates as a separate file
22:50:13 <Rhamphoryncus> Which "the" API would be whatever timetable_gui.cpp is using.. DrawString, SetDParam, that stuff
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