IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-01-20
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00:22:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess that failed, then.
00:24:36 <Rhamphoryncus> Well now, obviously :P
00:25:23 <planetmaker> and again :-P :-)
00:25:52 <Rhamphoryncus> Yup. Seems useless to even try now. Might as well give up and talk
00:26:22 <Rhamphoryncus> So.. haven't been here since early 2010. Something made me want to play again >.>
00:26:42 <planetmaker> best time to talk is EU evening. Usually ;-) And some addiction just stick
00:27:44 <Rhamphoryncus> I soon rediscovered how frustrating timetabling is. So I'm trying to fix it. Again. Like the last time I played.
00:28:17 <Eddi|zuHause> tried the 24h clock mod?
00:28:57 <Rhamphoryncus> nope. I did read up on one but it didn't seem like what I was looking for. It looked like more of an interface tweak than a fundamental fix
00:29:25 <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of fundamental change are you looking for?
00:29:56 <Rhamphoryncus> Make train, set route, clone 30 more trains, hit button to turn on, walk away.
00:30:17 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, you'll be searching for autoseparation then
00:31:14 <Rhamphoryncus> I'm not opposed to an interface that gives you manual control of the intervals. It just needs to be a sane interface on the route, not individual trains
00:31:51 <Zuu> Do you use shared orders?
00:32:10 <Rhamphoryncus> Once I tripped across them on the wiki, yes
00:35:21 <Rhamphoryncus> Last time I made a patch that mostly worked, but it was a giant bodge. This time I'm trying to make a good patch
00:45:10 <Eddi|zuHause> be sure you include options for both people who want to "fire and forget", and people who want to tweak every little detail (like round-trip time, buffer time at end stations, synchronization with other timetables, ...)
00:47:19 <Rhamphoryncus> That all goes in to setting the schedule. Once it's figured out is the hard part: gracefully compensating when your vehicles don't stick to it.
00:48:30 <Eddi|zuHause> one thing i had trouble with all previous timetabling patches: if roadvehicle A is stuck behind roadvehicle B of the same route and can't overtake, then it should switch out the timetabling between the two
00:49:54 <Rhamphoryncus> Huh, that one looks decent
00:50:07 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, that's key in my mind
00:58:59 <Eddi|zuHause> "Washington DC will be one of the first regions suffering from rising ocean"
01:02:56 <Eddi|zuHause> "if the local sea level were to rise by just 0.1 meter, or about 4 inches, by 2043, nearly 68,000 people would be affected, and property damage would total upwards of $2 billion - without including damage to military bases and government property."
01:05:49 <Elukka> i bet some significant percentage of those people would still deny we had anything to do with it
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10:37:27 <appe> the ex foreign minister of sweden refered to the us as "a future subject for north koreans"
10:37:36 <appe> the worst thing is that it's true..
10:51:47 <appe> the irony, playing openttd whilst on the db regio head office.
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11:00:27 <appe> my girlfriend works with the trains
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12:03:27 <Rhamphoryncus> 1900 is quite painful
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12:05:41 <Rhamphoryncus> Look at the horses go :P
12:08:16 <planetmaker> <Rhamphoryncus> [13:03:27] 1900 is quite painful <-- that's why we live in 2012 ;-)
12:09:08 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, but I don't think we'll get a hoverbus in 2030
12:10:09 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: try something else beginning with H
12:10:53 <Rhamphoryncus> .. can't figure out what you mean
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12:13:05 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus, it was a shameless plug by andythenorth. He means HEQS
12:13:15 <planetmaker> Shameless or not, it'd be my recommendation, too
12:13:17 * andythenorth is shameless marketeer
12:13:32 <andythenorth> but also I sat watching horses go slowly, and decided to fix it :P
12:14:49 <Rhamphoryncus> Hmm, I remember using that when I last played several years ago
12:15:05 <planetmaker> several years ago? HEQS?
12:15:10 <planetmaker> Seems to not quite fit
12:15:14 <andythenorth> HEQS is ~2 years old
12:15:53 <planetmaker> (for me several >> 2, but at least >2)
12:17:01 <Rhamphoryncus> Okay, I last played a little under two years ago, but I had played more before that. HEQS was probably towards the end
12:18:45 <andythenorth> orudge: is there a phpBB switch for 'permalink to this post' ?
12:19:09 <planetmaker> that's what you posted
12:19:09 <andythenorth> if so, could I request it be turned on? :)
12:19:48 <andythenorth> I get that by clicking 'pm' then copying the post ID from the textarea
12:19:54 <planetmaker> the link you get for the small icon in the upper right remains the same
12:19:55 <Rhamphoryncus> How well does it balance with generic tram set and eGRVTS?
12:20:23 <planetmaker> the icon left of Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:01 pm
12:20:29 <planetmaker> try that, andythenorth
12:20:48 <andythenorth> that is the permalink
12:21:03 <Rhamphoryncus> and the comment on the first page about not being a really big mining truck makes me want a really big mining truck. It'd need a new track type, representing the special dirt roads. :D
12:21:20 <planetmaker> 'copy link location' from the context menu gives you it, yes
12:21:23 <andythenorth> planetmaker: thankss :)
12:21:35 <planetmaker> I use it often enough :-)
12:21:59 <planetmaker> or click on the title of the _posting_ (not thread) and then copy the browser URL
12:22:03 <andythenorth> I've been doing it the hard way :P
12:22:22 <andythenorth> I only make internets for a job :P
12:22:47 <Rhamphoryncus> browsing the source to find the anchor?
12:23:10 <andythenorth> just assumed it was turned off :P
12:23:16 <andythenorth> assumptions assumptions assumptions
12:23:23 * andythenorth back to work, making internets
12:23:54 * Rhamphoryncus gives andythenorth some tubes
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12:34:56 <xiong> Okay, now cargodist is coming clear. The critical points are related to the structure of the network, not to vehicles per se.
12:35:40 <xiong> At least with pax, which is all I've tried; perhaps mail as well since that's symmetric traffic, too:
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12:38:13 <xiong> A) Do not run "circulators". In vanilla I was in the habit of establishing 4 bus stops equally spaced about a town center and running a local circulating service. This might seem to work well with cargodist as a feeder service but pax end up making time-consuming stops where they don't want to go.
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12:41:20 <xiong> B) Initially weight capacity toward the "middle" of the graph, which should now resemble a tree. I made the mistake of running good service between two towns, then between two others; finally connecting -- weakly -- one from each pair. It's no surprise that a great deal of pax wanted to travel over the weak link.
12:41:34 <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: How do you mean? People get off and on again at every stop?
12:42:48 <xiong> Rhamphoryncus, are you asking in reference to A or B?
12:43:41 <xiong> Yes, I thought so but wasn't sure. No, the problem is exactly that pax do *not* load/unload at each circulator stop, as they do in vanilla.
12:44:20 <xiong> Rather, they wait patiently until the bus moves on to their desired stop. The stop time is wasted, the pax are that much later getting where they're going.
12:44:39 <planetmaker> Rhamphoryncus, mind, if you don't play patched OpenTTD, with cargodist, it's irrelevant ;-)
12:45:08 <Rhamphoryncus> Ahh, so even if nobody is embarking/disembarking it still does a full stop?
12:45:19 <Rhamphoryncus> planetmaker: I *am* playing with cargodist :)
12:45:20 <xiong> In the case of a route that goes clockwise around town center 1-2-3-4, worst case has pax boarding at 1 who want to go to 4; the travel is 3 times the distance paid.
12:45:50 <michi_cc> xiong: You know, that is the whole point of all cargod?st implementation.
12:45:56 <xiong> Rhamphoryncus, that seems to be my experience. Same for you?
12:46:13 <xiong> michi_cc, Yes, it's obvious, now.
12:46:27 <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: ahh, yeah. That encourages you to have better routes :)
12:47:07 <xiong> I'm playing with chillpack and I'm also using automated timetabling; so vehicles like to waste a day or two at a stop in any case.
12:47:24 <Rhamphoryncus> I might do a 3-point triangle, but any more I'd rather have bidirectional lines that cross at a common hub
12:48:02 <planetmaker> Try cargodist with one (or a few) major hubs. And regional networks attached there
12:48:07 <planetmaker> Makes for interesting building
12:48:10 <xiong> Thank you, Rhamphoryncus; that's my thinking. I'm not even too sure about triangle routes; if the triangle is equilateral, worst-case travel distance is twice what you get paid for.
12:48:28 <planetmaker> While keeping it managable at the same time
12:48:56 <Rhamphoryncus> I'd consider having two routes going at opposite directions
12:48:58 <xiong> Yes, planetmaker: hub and spoke, smaller hubs and spokes. No circulators.
12:49:15 <planetmaker> well. Depends ;-)
12:49:38 <planetmaker> An olympic ring network certainly would work :-)
12:49:40 <Rhamphoryncus> I'm not sure how well it balances between directions when your circulator has both clockwise and counterclockwise
12:49:44 <planetmaker> with hubs where they cross
12:50:04 <xiong> Rhamphoryncus, Tried that. Ran local service with two sets of vehicles, one clockwise, one counter-clockwise. Fail. Pax still board the next vehicle that seems to have a decent shot of taking them to their dest.
12:50:51 <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: ergh. It may only weight for saturation, not efficiency x_x
12:50:53 <xiong> I'm going to shut this game down now since I've learned important lessons and try strictly out-and-back service next time.
12:51:35 <xiong> I'll give ships another go. I'm not yet convinced they're broken in cargodist, not yet; although the plausible explanation was offered.
12:51:52 * Rhamphoryncus likes truck loading bays so much he puts a truck loading bay in his truck loading bay. Then clicks again, paying a *third* time.
12:51:54 <xiong> I think you're exactly correct, Rhamphoryncus.
13:08:35 <Rhamphoryncus> Got a coal line that's about 15 long.. got 30 carriages on it, trying to keep up
13:10:25 <planetmaker> 15 tiles? That's short
13:10:37 <planetmaker> Sounds like work for RV typically
13:10:39 <xiong> Oh yeah, forgot: I also notice that the link graph calculates the location of a disjoint station at what appears to be the barycenter, not the first "sign" tile. I suspect the payout is so calculated, too.
13:10:43 <planetmaker> or for HEQS trams rather
13:11:11 <xiong> Rhamphoryncus, yah, your omission of units makes that statement look weird.
13:11:34 <Rhamphoryncus> 15 tiles, 30 horse-draw carriages
13:12:17 <xiong> I too am a horse man. I start in 1850. What kind of world has no transportation at all in 1950??
13:13:50 <Elukka> what kind of world has no public roads between cities?
13:14:08 <Rhamphoryncus> what kind of world only has one type of road?
13:14:34 <Elukka> would it be possible to make an AI that had a practically infinite amount of money, built a road network and then more or less shut down?
13:16:16 <Rhamphoryncus> Pity one-way roads just make it into a single-lane one-way
13:17:53 <Rhamphoryncus> aaaand I have a backlog a little over halfway around this route
13:20:52 <planetmaker> Elukka, that's called game script
13:20:57 <planetmaker> answer is thus: yes
13:21:18 <Elukka> hm. that'd be a cool thing
13:21:24 <planetmaker> practically that exists as real AI already, though. It will just bancrupt, but roads will remain
13:21:34 <planetmaker> and a new such AI will emerge. Works also
13:34:45 <Rhamphoryncus> Ahh, seems to have solved it. Double-road, balanced, and make the roro truck stops 2 long so that queueing actually works.
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13:38:35 <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: hrm, cargodist is *supposed* to handle cycles. I don't suppose you were using a single route to go all the way around, rather than a series of individual routes?
13:39:17 <Rhamphoryncus> It might be failing because the pax have a series of hops they want and your train does them all
13:43:25 <Elukka> my first thought on your nick was 'but it's spelled rhamphorhynchus!' and i have no idea how the hell i remember how to spell something like that
13:43:48 <Rhamphoryncus> lol. Have you been here for years? I used to come here 2 years ago
13:44:10 <Rhamphoryncus> And you're right, it is spelled rhamphorhynchus. Mine's an archaic spelling. From a kid's dinosaur book many years ago.
13:44:18 <xiong> Elukka, that would actually be fairly realistic -- not quite but nearly -- in some parts of the world just a century ago. Even as recently as 1919, the future General and President Eisenhower found it well-nigh impossible to drive the US coast-to-coast.
13:44:55 <Elukka> nah i've only come here fairly recently
13:45:19 <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: we need multiple grades of roads, with very crude dirt ones that get upgraded and upgraded
13:45:28 <xiong> Rhamphoryncus, I was running, as was my vanilla habit, four horse carriage "buses" clockwise around four road stops. And as I said, adding CCW didn't seem to help much.
13:45:45 <xiong> Ah, now you're thinking SimCity.
13:45:58 <Rhamphoryncus> xiong: try splitting into 4 routes
13:46:03 <planetmaker> that's called road types
13:46:17 <xiong> Dirt roads, two-laners, expressways, superhighways.
13:47:09 * planetmaker misses the one, two FIRS yacd games. Were loads of fun :-)
13:47:29 <xiong> I'd be happier if I didn't get so many wacky towns centered on tiny islands... with enormously long bridges, with two houses on the far end.
13:48:11 <xiong> But then, Rhamphoryncus, we have to ask about rail classes.
13:48:37 <planetmaker> you have them, xiong
13:48:43 <planetmaker> just use an appropriate newgrf
13:49:17 <Rhamphoryncus> Those bridges wouldn't look so silly if there was a dirt road network attached to it
13:49:24 <xiong> Narrow gauge? Welded? Washed-out ballast? Concrete tie?
13:49:30 <planetmaker> you actually even have them by default. called raill, el. rail, monorail and maglev ;-)
13:49:41 <planetmaker> xiong, exactly. Just grab it
13:50:12 <xiong> Fact is, if you want a certain level of detail, you need to go to the hobby store and tell the man what you want. Then you start annoying everyone else in your life.
13:52:15 <xiong> It's been suggested to me that since I moved into a one-bedroom apt; and since I live alone (nobody to annoy much) and use the bedroom only for storage; I *might* just start slapping plaster on plywood.
13:52:21 <Rhamphoryncus> aww, gotta stop playing so I can get other things done
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14:46:52 * Belugas is sad today. Megaupload death is a very bad news.
14:47:16 <Belugas> i'll have to dig new sites for my entertainment now :(
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14:54:44 <TrueBrain> one of the gazillion others? :P
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18:04:26 <Guest24629> hola, alguien habla espaol?
18:04:37 <Guest24629> hello, someone spack spanish?
18:05:07 <Guest24629> hola, me puedes resolver una duda del juego?
18:05:23 <Guest24629> los botones para crear estaciones y almacenes de autobuses me vienen desactivados
18:06:33 <Guest24629> del transport tycoon me refiero
18:06:44 <__ln__> hmm... no sé. ¿cúal año es?
18:07:46 <Guest24629> pero este no es el canal?
18:08:32 <__ln__> es el canal del OpenTTD
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18:19:09 * TrueBrain wonders how __ln__ would react if I now kick him for not speaking english :D Or is that too hard? :P
18:20:55 <__ln__> i'm still the biggest advocate of the 'english only' rule, i only disobey it when i speak another language myself
18:24:18 <Xaroth> and by it i mean NOT me.
18:25:28 <TrueBrain> I guess I am in a good mood
18:25:35 <TrueBrain> else Xaroth would have been kicked by now
18:25:38 <TrueBrain> sometimes I surprise myself
18:25:47 <Xaroth> sometimes you surprise even me...
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18:33:19 <Belugas> i vote for not kicking, since it was actually helping someone new around :)
18:33:48 <TrueBrain> Belugas: that is the problem; can you be sure?
18:34:10 <Belugas> well... i know enough of spanish to understand what has been told :)
18:35:30 <Prof_Frink> Something about canals.
18:36:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was whether this is a control channel for botnets
18:36:30 <Belugas> he was wondering why the buttons to create stations were inactive :)
18:36:52 <__ln__> and i said i don't know and asked what year it is
18:37:24 <Belugas> and then, what game been used. looked like it was ttd, and not openttd, since he left afterward
18:37:25 <Eddi|zuHause> and he asked whether he was old enough to know about such stuff
18:37:44 <Belugas> aaahh... debug session started
18:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling the default network timeouts are a tad too low
18:41:11 * andythenorth is having fun times with missing data
18:41:19 <andythenorth> this is not generally a good thing
18:41:28 <andythenorth> nor specifically a good thing
18:41:48 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: can you retrace your steps where you did put the data last?
18:42:04 <andythenorth> important customer data
18:45:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23825 /trunk/src/lang/ (belarusian.txt german.txt russian.txt welsh.txt):
18:45:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belarusian - 2 changes by KorneySan
18:45:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 49 changes by planetmaker
18:45:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 2 changes by Lone_Wolf
18:45:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: welsh - 17 changes by kazzie
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20:18:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23826 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Fix [FS#4972]: the detailed performance rating window showed the cargo count of the current quarter instead of the last quarter like the tooltip says
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21:02:29 <frosch123> web hosting is a silly business...
21:03:55 <frosch123> the more detailed and serious the providers appear, the cheaper they become
21:05:22 <Rubidium> benefits of scale I'd guess
21:10:44 <andythenorth> frosch123: you are overlooking rackspace clearly :p
21:11:02 <andythenorth> Alberth: sanity in the newgrf industry spec? have you been smoking crack today? :)
21:11:36 <frosch123> it is definitely one of the more sane ones :p
21:12:51 <Eddi|zuHause> "better than the station specs"? :p
21:14:28 <frosch123> imo stations < vehicles < cargos < houses < industries
21:14:42 <frosch123> no idea where to put townnames, rails and objects though :p
21:14:43 <Alberth> frosch123: locally deciding based on static data how the industries in the world should evolve without the openttd program being able to intervene or even give hints
21:15:01 <Alberth> townnames are juts eye-candy :p
21:15:19 <frosch123> oh, signals < stations < ...
21:15:50 <andythenorth> vehicles < industries ?
21:16:21 <frosch123> so you succeded in refittable articulated vehicles? :p
21:16:33 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on what you define as "sane"
21:16:49 <andythenorth> my articulated vehicles are refittable after much studying of failures :P
21:16:58 <frosch123> vehicles have the most arcane, deprecated, conflicting... etc things
21:17:02 <andythenorth> and provision of buy menu magic
21:17:19 <andythenorth> and ensuring lead vehicle is refittable or not depending on your flavour of madness
21:17:24 <Eddi|zuHause> buy menu magic is probably the most problematic
21:17:41 <andythenorth> vehicles have a sane spec in terms of affordances to authors
21:17:46 <andythenorth> but an insane implementation
21:17:55 <andythenorth> industries have the wrong set of affordances
21:18:06 <andythenorth> and the implementation is relatively sane
21:18:15 <andythenorth> you can do all the wrong things quite easily
21:19:43 <andythenorth> maybe industries should get their own script space
21:19:57 <andythenorth> cos adding yet more stuff definitely won't make everything worse :P
21:20:35 <Eddi|zuHause> "embedded newgrf script"
21:20:54 <Eddi|zuHause> that's gonna make things... interesting :p
21:21:08 <andythenorth> opening and closing are the worst
21:21:26 <andythenorth> having to deal with industry spacing yourself is ok, but seems a bit baroque
21:21:42 <andythenorth> everything else is kind of ok as far as I recall
21:25:28 <andythenorth> why make the newgrf deal solely with that?
21:28:02 <Alberth> #input/output cargos could be a bit more flexible imho
21:28:27 <frosch123> yeah, but scripts cannot deal with such stuff :p
21:31:03 <Alberth> hmm, are OpenGFX+farms supposed to produce wheat/livestock in the snow (arctic)?
21:31:41 <frosch123> opengfx+industries seem to try to produce any cargo available to any climate
21:33:03 <planetmaker> by default it doesn't change the industries. It modifies cargos, though
21:33:17 <frosch123> true, it is coded in nml, so it is supposed to have tons of parameters :)
21:33:55 <andythenorth> changing input/output stores you up a lot of insanity
21:34:28 <planetmaker> lol, frosch123. But... might be true
21:35:36 <Alberth> frosch123: I know, I translated the strings, however I have not yet set any of them :p
21:36:08 <planetmaker> Alberth: wheat/livestock might be default. It doesn't treat farms differently for climates.
21:36:15 <planetmaker> But it allows you to select the cargo ;-)
21:36:58 <frosch123> opengfx+industries is like manual industries, but more sane :p
21:37:02 <planetmaker> but it might be a different cargo name there. But... that's of no effect
21:38:23 <Alberth> I was actually asking about production being non-zero while the farm is buried in the snow
21:38:29 <frosch123> for some reason i did not have dinner yet, even though i am hungry
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21:38:56 <andythenorth> Alberth: making production 0 in winter sucks for gameplay
21:38:58 * frosch123 expores the kitchen
21:39:06 <andythenorth> you don't see the store sheds? :o
21:39:36 <Alberth> andythenorth: good point
21:39:56 <andythenorth> lots of 'train is losing money' messages also
21:40:03 <andythenorth> and 'train stuck'
21:40:13 <andythenorth> and probably epic traffic jams, depending on your play style
21:40:15 * Alberth almost never has those messages
21:41:30 <andythenorth> your farms don't stop in winter ;)
21:41:52 <Xaroth> trains take 4x as long to accelerate
21:42:04 <Xaroth> or at least down here they apparently do...
21:45:16 <Elukka> farms stopping during winter would only make sense gameplay wise if your vehicles automatically understood it and stopped working for the period
21:45:41 <Eddi|zuHause> make a "summer timetable" and a "winter timetable"
21:46:15 <andythenorth> might make much more sense with auto-refit than it used to
21:46:25 <Eddi|zuHause> but really, the timetable system is incapable of automatically handling such temporal changes
21:46:27 <andythenorth> when is beet season? :P
21:46:30 <Elukka> sounds like too much effort
21:46:49 <Alberth> I could perhaps if I understood how time tables worked :p
21:47:02 <andythenorth> auto-refit orders by month
21:47:16 <Eddi|zuHause> same why a passenger peak ("rush hour") is not sanely handleable
21:56:18 <Nat_> how does the cargodest patch work? do I just copy all the files over my install or what?
21:56:43 <planetmaker> you just unzip it into a separate dir. It comes with everything it needs
21:58:07 <Nat_> I get a bunch of bugs when I do that.
21:58:55 <Belugas> haaa.. pleasure of a starting weekend!
21:59:10 <Nat_> ini: invalid value 'SHOW_TOWN_NAMES|SHOW.... longer
21:59:29 <Nat_> then ini: ignoring invalid NewGRF .... longer
21:59:44 <Nat_> then the same error a few more times with my other newgrifs
22:00:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably because your .cfg is from a newer version
22:00:05 <Nat_> and lastly Error! Cannot open file 'sample.cat'
22:00:12 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodest is really old
22:00:13 <Nat_> is this only compatible with older ones?
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22:00:24 <Nat_> why is it not better supported?
22:00:43 <Nat_> do people really prefer the shitty classic cargo system?
22:01:04 <Nat_> the one that makes cargo have specific destinations
22:02:07 <Eddi|zuHause> anybody fluent in xml-processing?
22:02:14 <planetmaker> that's of antique value only
22:02:32 <Nat_> what's the last version it's compatible with?
22:02:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not "compatible with" anything, it's a standalone version
22:03:26 <Nat_> which do I download, this is a whole dir
22:03:59 <Elukka> surely a patch is compatible with some particular revision?
22:04:04 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, need something quick that does: "for each <Text> node: if contains <English> node, and not contains <German> node, copy <English>-content into <German>-content"
22:04:15 <Elukka> wait are those binaries
22:04:52 <Nat_> oh wow it even downloads the graphics
22:05:11 <Elukka> oh my god they are new binaries
22:05:36 <Elukka> for something like a year there weren't any
22:05:56 <Nat_> if I were to say load an old game, would it work the same?
22:06:05 <Nat_> or would the new system interact with it funny?
22:06:05 <Elukka> it wouldn't load, probably
22:06:28 <planetmaker> Nat_: it's a patched openttd. Don't expect compatibility with other patched versions
22:07:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_: generally don't assume that a patched version loads anything.
22:08:04 <Elukka> that's the reason i haven't made any of the scenarios i've wanted to make
22:08:38 <Elukka> there doesn't seem to be any safe bet with regards to what version they should be made in
22:08:44 <planetmaker> Elukka: you can always create the scenarios in openttd stable and load it in the patch...
22:09:10 <Nat_> well I opened the scenerio in the edtior in the patched version
22:09:11 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. chillpp doesn't load 1.1.x savegames
22:09:16 <Nat_> will there be any problems?
22:09:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_: if it loaded, it will likely not cause problems
22:09:49 <Nat_> I'm just changing a few quirks in this scenrio, it's a small map with one incomplete industry chain that can't ever be complete
22:09:51 <Elukka> if i make a scenario in stable can it be expected to work with stuff like cargodist and future stables?
22:09:56 <Nat_> because the map has no place forests can spawn
22:10:17 <Elukka> i mean, i realize there's no absolute guarantee and openttd might be very different in 10 years, but as a general rule
22:10:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_: but if you save the scenario in cargodist, you will never ever be able to load it anywhere else
22:10:31 <planetmaker> Elukka: in future openttd: yes. future patch: most probable
22:10:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_: not in normal openttd, nor in any future versions of cargodist
22:10:46 <Nat_> that's cool, I could probably re-create it from the origonal if I wanted
22:10:59 <Nat_> Skaldi islands or however you spell it
22:11:13 <Nat_> a nice map where you can connect everything in a few hours.
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22:33:58 <Nat_> what if the government in real life was like in TTD
22:34:11 <Nat_> the best way to lobby is to plant trees
22:37:57 <Nat_> what's a good grf for arctic climate?
22:38:04 <Nat_> i like the tropic refurbishment set
22:49:20 <Nat_> why would i need this many
22:49:30 <Nat_> it's almost as bad as the plane list
22:49:36 <Nat_> how will i ever make a desision
22:49:46 <Alberth> that's the main reason I still only play with the default train set :p
22:50:34 <Nat_> Default trains hate tropic and artic
22:50:35 <Alberth> (and the opengfx+ extensions, but they add very little stuff)
22:50:50 <Nat_> which are the coolest maps
22:51:49 <Alberth> no electric makes sense, at least in arctic, imho
22:51:59 <Alberth> wires would freeze :p
22:52:26 <Alberth> and those mountains need big engines, and electric is not so powerful
22:52:33 <Nat_> if you really want to be uber realistic, dissalow electric trains above the snow line.
22:52:47 <Alberth> but I am more of a steam/diesel person :p
22:53:00 * Alberth has no desire to be realistic :)
22:53:21 <Nat_> but too many options is confusing
22:53:25 <Nat_> especaly when it's all one list
22:53:37 <Nat_> like having a million engines would be fine if I could filter them
22:53:59 <Alberth> and only care about the top-few ones
22:55:58 <Alberth> ok, I am off to bed, good night
23:56:45 <Elukka> Alberth, Nat_: electric engines are regularly used in cold areas, furthermore they are the most powerful kind of engine
23:57:48 <Hirundo> Electrifying thousands of km of track isn't worth the benefit, though
23:58:05 <Elukka> it's been done in most of europe
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