IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-01-17
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00:11:07 <Eddi|zuHause> is a "viral video" a "video contaminated with a virus"?
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00:15:42 <Eddi|zuHause> any op feeling responsible?
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00:18:11 <__ln__> all the ops are probably still watching the viral video
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00:21:06 <Ropeburn> ooh, it is all kicking off now :O
00:21:27 <__ln__> you're jumping into conclusions
00:23:27 <Ropeburn> Sooooo. anything interesting?
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00:57:40 <Guest24236> Hi, quick question (newbie here) is it possible to play multiplayer with cargodist between two clients that are the same version?
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02:34:04 <Eddi|zuHause> random idea: when cloning a vehicle that isn't available anymore, buy the vehicle that this vehicle is set to be autoreplaced to
02:36:26 <kais58> or if a vehicle is set to be autoreplaced and you clone it, you clone it post upgrade?
02:38:02 <Eddi|zuHause> kais58: i could pause the game, set autoreplace, clone, unset autoreplace, and not have the vehicle replced
02:39:49 <Eddi|zuHause> kais58: i would get all the benefits of cloning (shared/copied orders, group membership, vehicle numbering, ...)
02:54:03 <kais58> I mea the cloned version is the one after the upgrade
02:54:20 <kais58> regardless of the state of the original
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09:49:56 * andythenorth is bidding to redefine 'sledgehammer -> nut'
09:50:46 <brendan10211> sledgehammer ~> nut
09:54:10 <appe_> np: peter gabriel - sledgehammer
09:54:47 <peter1138> np: richard harris - macarthur park
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11:16:15 <xiong> A couple of years ago, when I first installed OpenTTD, it ate 100% CPU as soon as started. It hasn't done that in a long time and I'm ashamed to say I can't recall the fix.
11:16:55 <xiong> Now I've got the chillpack version going and it eats CPU, too; I'm hoping it's the same fix... if I could figure out what that was.
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11:27:02 <xiong> Ah. Well, if anyone else has the same issue: This is related to sound (which I'd rather not have anyway); launch $ openttd -snull
11:27:27 <xiong> I can't imagine how I remembered.
11:50:38 <blathijs> xiong: Just to prevent (possibly) incorrect assumptions: Did you consider pulseaudio might just allows you to smell what ALSA really smells like?
11:50:43 <blathijs> Or SDL, for that matter
11:51:54 <xiong> Um, this is all uncharted waters for me. I very rarely turn on computer sound at all, for any purpose. I live a very quiet life, probably drive most people nuts. I go a weekend, no teevee, no radio.
11:52:33 <xiong> I do talk to myself! :)
11:54:19 <xiong> I'll bet if I got OTTD sound working I'd hear steam whistles and banjos. That would be fine... if they were steam whistles and banjos instead of a cheesy little laptop speaker pretending.
11:56:44 <xiong> My neighbors think I'm dead. I do nothing to upset their assumptions.
11:57:17 <xiong> BTW, chillpack is... *very* interesting.
11:58:49 <planetmaker> it's the most popular existing patchpack for OpenTTD at the moment
11:59:06 <planetmaker> which we even compile on our CF ;-)
12:00:42 <Elukka> i think i'll become a convert if he finds the time to update it to a more recent revision...
13:11:53 <Yexo> see development section of the forums
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15:38:56 * kais58 high 5's heffer for pushing the build to updates-testing, just need to wait for it to filter down to updates now...
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16:21:26 <Belugas> i'm bored.. "you have to do this". "i'm doing that for customer xyz". "Do this, it's more important". "Are you going to tell customer xyz i cannot work on his stuff?" "No, you'll do it"
16:25:22 <planetmaker> brendan10211 is a bot
16:25:50 <brendan10211> im just bored, and have nothing to say
16:25:58 <brendan10211> i guess i just shouldnt say it
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17:27:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23817 /trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:27:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4962]: desync due to different NewGRF version. So reduce the chance
17:27:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: that it happens significantly with betas/RCs/nightlies by doing the same as is
17:27:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: done for stable releases: check the NewGRF version of server vs client.
17:27:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Previously this check was not done for nightlies/betas/RCs due to missing
17:27:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: versioning information in the source tarballs, but they have that for a while
17:27:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: now. So just force the NewGRF version check for all versions, and remove the
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18:08:54 <Alberth> what's the state of the idea of using m4?
18:12:02 <Chris_Booth> anyone seen mrsmatz pm or amm1er?
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18:16:51 <andythenorth> Alberth: the m4 looks interesting
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18:17:14 <andythenorth> the example you pasted (imho) heads towards being a complete generator
18:17:21 <andythenorth> which is more than I need I think ;)
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18:17:59 <andythenorth> I decided that arbitrary scalability of the number of trailers was overkill
18:18:00 <Alberth> I was quite clueless what you actually needed :)
18:19:31 <Alberth> I think it is a step forward w.r.t. cpp. Whether it is enough is another matter.
18:19:53 <andythenorth> might be too much even
18:20:14 <Alberth> One further step could be to write a code generator in Python, or even to add a front-end to NML
18:20:16 <andythenorth> I think that mostly substituting constants is the safer route for sanity
18:20:43 <Eddi|zuHause> my generator has an "arbitrary" number of trailers, but always in the form AB*C, which is sufficient to cover most MUs and also steam engines with tenders
18:21:23 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: more than that would become too confusing, I'd say
18:22:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i have two or three cases where it's not sufficient, for that i introduced the concept of "custom" callbacks, where i include a manually written pnml file
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18:23:04 <andythenorth> I am going to do something bonkers - and write a dumb code generator in a web framework
18:23:19 <andythenorth> this is not a wise idea, but will amuse me
18:23:26 <andythenorth> but first, toddler -> bath
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18:28:22 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone notice the irony in "unlocked achievement: locked"? :p
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18:33:53 <frosch123> what are you playing?
18:34:27 <Alberth> a NoGo script with achievements perhaps? :)
18:34:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm reading the forum
18:37:13 <frosch123> i am generating maps
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18:44:04 <Muxy> i have Rubidium & TrueBrain
18:46:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r23819 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4951]: Removal of towns with 0 population failed during map generation.
18:46:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23818 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files): (log message trimmed)
18:46:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by KorneySan
18:46:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 7 changes by jpx_
18:46:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 110 changes by OliTTD
18:46:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by NG
18:46:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 7 changes by lorenzodv
18:48:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23820 /trunk/src/lang/slovenian.txt: -Fix (r23818): WT3 validation failure
18:48:28 <Muxy> ok last point : i would like to use the CLIEN_JOIN message to trigger a welcome message with chat. This message is sent when the ClientSocket has a status who does bot allow chat sending.
18:53:21 <Muxy> and from the bot side i will never know (time only if no disconnect) if the client has a STATUS_ACTIVE.
18:54:56 <Eddi|zuHause> did i miss one half of the conversation or is this really just incoherent babble?
18:55:23 <Yexo> you probably missed FS#4973
18:55:59 <Alberth> 'missed' is somewhat of an over estimation :)
18:57:56 <andythenorth> tieske100 redeemed themselves
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20:02:58 <_mj> hi, I came here with a specific problem a few days ago, maybe somebody can try to help me now (now that my code is updated to compile against the recent ottd version)
20:03:22 <_mj> it was about the CommandCost object with isn't correctly initialized for no apparent reason
20:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> No Question - No Code - No Help
20:12:48 <Rubidium> what? Are you telling what TB's new projects are going to be?
20:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and "NoCo" is where you first remove all code from the repo, and start implementing from scratch? :)
20:15:37 <Rubidium> so a better scenario editor
20:15:58 <Eddi|zuHause> "do you want to send all your data to mozilla?"
20:16:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess rather not...
20:19:01 <_mj> question: why isn't loc_cost initialized like the other two instances of CommandCost ?
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20:22:09 <Alberth> why are you reading from a NULL reference ? (it seems)
20:22:36 <Alberth> CommandCost(ExpensesType ex_t, const Money &cst)
20:24:10 <_mj> was it always this way ? it doesn't make any sense, the way I have done it
20:25:02 <Rubidium> what (optimisation) compile flags do you use?
20:26:21 <Jogio> I have to thank someone but first I have to read my emails
20:27:06 <Rubidium> yeah, the 0 is probably the culprit
20:27:47 <_mj> -march=prescott -O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer
20:28:19 <_mj> I need to check at which game version this problem occured first for me, but that way it looks nonsensical, thanks for pointing this out
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20:28:46 <_mj> I assumed it was expecting a money value not a reference
20:29:15 <Rubidium> it's always initialised with a cost of 0
20:29:27 <Rubidium> unless you pass a Cost
20:29:48 <Jogio> thanks Rubidium, finally I can change things in translation now :-)
20:29:50 <Alberth> that was my idea too when I first saw your code, but it did not make sense in the debugger under that assumption :)
20:33:04 <_mj> is 'Money m = 0;' ok to do ?
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20:33:27 <Yexo> in C++ I'd expect "Money m(0);"
20:34:35 <Rubidium> but there's no reason to add it to the parameters of CommandCost
20:35:03 <Dozzer_X> How can I stop the tram sounds? I already deactivated SFX...
20:35:23 <Yexo> you can mute sounds from the second-right button in the main toolbar
20:38:24 <_mj> hm, unfortunately the problem keeps reoccuring. I tried initializing the money value as '= 0' as 'm(0)' and with just 'Money m', and I finally left it out altogether
20:38:37 <_mj> but the loc_cost value looks very messed up, still
20:38:59 <_mj> I also tried using the debug function from the game and it produces the same number as gdb shows
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20:42:37 <Rubidium> if I copy just the three CommandCosts, then it works fine
20:43:18 <Rubidium> do you have a full diff?
20:43:44 <Yexo> _mj: did you also try "CommandCost cc(EXPENSES_NEW_VEHICLES);"?
20:45:11 <_mj> Yexo: I tried it just now, cc is still initialized correctly without the 0
20:45:20 <_mj> Rubidium, I have, let me quick upload it
20:46:06 <Dozzer_X> <@Yexo> you can mute sounds from the second-right button in the main toolbar >> The second-right button is the news button
20:46:32 <Yexo> ok, "some button near the right end of the main toolbar" :p
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20:47:28 <Dozzer_X> right end > Music (MSX - deactivated), news and help
20:47:49 <Yexo> click the "Sound/music" button
20:48:03 <Yexo> a window opens were you can set "music volume" and "effects volume"
20:48:04 <Rubidium> but 1e verdieping = 2nd floor
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20:48:12 <Yexo> set the second one to "Min"
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20:58:53 <Yexo> _mj: how to trigger that function?
20:59:13 <Dozzer_X> Cheats don't work for me btw
20:59:32 <Yexo> Dozzer_X: "don't work" is too vague
20:59:39 <Yexo> do you know how to open the cheat window?
20:59:54 <Dozzer_X> It worked for me in november
20:59:59 <Yexo> try ctrl+alt+meta+c if that doesn't work
21:00:02 <_mj> Yexo: its a bit complicated, sry. I should just upload my savegame too, it is set up for this
21:00:51 <Yexo> in that case you have some other software installed that catches the ctrl+alt+c shortcut before openttd gets it
21:01:40 <_mj> for checking I use gdb and set a breakpoint with: "b aaa_template_vehicle_func.cpp:623"
21:02:24 <Yexo> loc_cost looks empty as expected for me
21:02:42 <Rubidium> if I add a few printfs like printf("val: %i\n", (int)loc_cost.GetCost());
21:02:52 <Rubidium> all the command costs have 0 cost
21:04:32 <Rubidium> and expenses type is 1
21:05:06 <_mj> you're right, maybe it is just in gdb
21:05:26 <_mj> what I tried before was DEBUG, not printf, it gave me the same output as gdb iirc
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21:06:50 <Rubidium> even in gdb it looks right to me
21:07:14 <Eddi|zuHause> must be solar flares
21:08:45 <andythenorth> "python is so fun"
21:08:54 <_mj> what is my gdb doing :/ but thanks for your help, I think I can assume that it is treated right within the game
21:09:41 <Rubidium> try a different version of the compiler?
21:10:17 <_mj> uh, its gentoo, gcc always takes so long to compile ^^
21:10:25 <_mj> I am using 4.5.3 right now
21:10:53 <Yexo> CommandCost aa(EXPENSES_NEW_VEHICLES, 0); <- why doesn't that trigger at least a warning?
21:12:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23821 /trunk/src/network/network_command.cpp: -Fix-ish: when replaying a command log, ignore the command limit
21:13:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23822 /trunk/src/ (company_cmd.cpp network/network_internal.h): -Fix-ish: when replaying make sure companies get created even if their creating client doesn't exist during the replay
21:16:53 <_mj> Yexo: because the reference is set as const ? When I make a little test program its the same - as long as the ref is const
21:17:12 <_mj> if it isn't it's an error to give 0 as argument where a ref is expected
21:18:34 <michi_cc> No, passing 0 is totally fine here as Money has an constructor that takes an int64. As it isn't declared as 'explicit', the compiler will just construct a temporary Money with value 0.
21:32:16 <andythenorth> I have built a dumb object database for trucks, and am rendering the defines out :P
21:32:27 <andythenorth> which is more work than other methods, but amuses me
21:34:27 <Alberth> having fun in what you do is the key part :)
21:39:39 <andythenorth> which no-one but me will probably understand :P
21:40:16 <andythenorth> which renders out html that I paste into a local file
21:40:28 <andythenorth> this is all very silly
21:40:57 <andythenorth> the makefile could curl the text and write it locally when run
21:41:04 <valhalla1w> andythenorth: you could user the a = b = c python idiom to clarify the first line in the loop
21:41:39 <valhalla1w> and use "THIS_TRAILER_%i_ID" % j
21:41:45 <valhalla1w> instead of the str(j) concatenation
21:41:54 <andythenorth> I never grok the % implementation though
21:42:01 <andythenorth> so I build big clunky concatenations
21:42:33 <valhalla1w> %i = int(val), %s = str(val), %r = repr(val), %f = float(val), and the rest is just standard printf stuff?
21:42:56 <andythenorth> just my brain never got it somehow
21:43:04 <andythenorth> the a = b = c is nice
21:43:23 <andythenorth> switched that in
21:43:52 <valhalla1w> is id() a string or an int?
21:44:01 <Alberth> valhalla1w: %s works for anything that has a str()
21:44:07 <andythenorth> the call returns a string
21:45:00 <valhalla1w> Alberth: I know. Why?
21:45:40 <Alberth> %i = int(val) %f = float(val) <-- %s also works
21:46:40 <Alberth> andythenorth: id() returns an int here
21:46:59 <valhalla1w> Alberth: for ints and floats specifically: yes
21:47:46 <Alberth> for anything that has str(), ie a class with C.__str__(self) too :)
21:48:13 <SpComb> very few types don't have a __str__
21:48:20 <valhalla1w> again, yes - but if you want a number, you should use a number format, not a string format
21:49:27 * SpComb requests GPL source from andythenorth
21:49:29 * Alberth only uses %d or %f for special formatting, as in %02d or %.2f
21:49:45 <andythenorth> SpComb: for...? :)
21:50:08 <SpComb> the bit where it says "Source available on request"!
21:50:10 <Alberth> andythenorth: just send him everything to be safe :)
21:50:39 <andythenorth> SpComb: I should remove that :)
21:50:44 <andythenorth> and link the repos
21:50:47 <valhalla1w> Alberth: as long as you don't do it for {SQL, popen, etc}, it's probably fine ;-)
21:51:37 <Alberth> hmm, too fast for me :)
21:51:49 <Alberth> anyways, time to go too, bye
21:51:55 <valhalla1w> Alberth: and of course, using %i and %f helps to communicate what you expect
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21:52:10 <valhalla1w> anyway, good night.
21:53:12 <valhalla1w> SpComb: I only do that with the evil antipattern "%(foo)i" % locals()
21:53:13 <Alberth> SpComb that's Python3, isn't it?
21:53:32 <SpComb> str.format is like {foo:d} or something esoteric
21:53:45 <SpComb> you have to go click through about five links in the online docs to figure out the format
21:53:47 <valhalla1w> >>> "%(foo)i"% { 'foo': 10}
21:53:57 <SpComb> and then reverse-engineer a couple examples if you want to do stuff like zero-padding
21:54:06 <Alberth> oh dictionaries. I remember now, never used that
21:54:23 <valhalla1w> >>> "%(foo)09i"% { 'foo': 10}
21:54:44 <valhalla1w> and if you want spaces instead, you can actually just use a space instead of the 0
21:54:56 <SpComb> >>> "{foo:09d}".format(foo=10)
21:55:12 <valhalla1w> why did they change the format?!
21:55:17 <SpComb> .format is nice otherwise, though
21:55:55 <SpComb> >>> "{foo.__class__}".format(foo=10)
21:55:58 <SpComb> you've always needed it
21:56:08 <welshdragon> can I remove the limit for the distance a town is permitted near the edge?
21:56:17 <valhalla1w> SpComb: oh, that is actually sort of nice
21:56:29 <SpComb> sans loops or conditionals
21:57:19 <valhalla1w> AttributeError: 'test' object has no attribute 'a()'
21:57:36 <SpComb> you can fake it with [...] :)
21:59:14 <valhalla1w> I could make a property out of it, but that's not really the point, right?
22:02:43 <Yexo> welshdragon: only by modifying the source code
22:02:49 <Yexo> town_cmd.cpp:TownCanBePlacedHere
22:07:01 <andythenorth> all I have to do is put a web form on the front, and you can edit your own BANDIT :P
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22:56:52 <kais58> TrueBrain: could you help fix/merge my accounts on the site, it's borked for me?
22:58:17 <TrueBrain> ugh, I should remove the merge stuff; it is very old
23:00:09 <kais58> I still don't have, my account set up right from that, I seem to remember I put my email in wrong from the merge and so can't get acces to my account now
23:00:23 <TrueBrain> I can check tomorrow; to tired now
23:00:34 <TrueBrain> but it will be the last account I look into :P
23:01:04 *** mib_tg9fo1 has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
