IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-01-05
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01:03:00 * encoded hacks openttd so you can stop planes
01:03:19 <FLHerne> Why would you want to?
01:03:25 <BUTTMUNCH> that would be so funny
01:04:18 <encoded> i bribed this local authority twice and they still hate me
01:04:56 <BUTTMUNCH> i forgot to add a city to my plane routes
01:05:03 <BUTTMUNCH> now it’s a pain in the ass to get them back to liking me again
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01:07:55 <FLHerne> Openbox crashes every time I start OpenTTD :-(
01:08:16 <BUTTMUNCH> im having a hard time transporting most of the people in the city
01:08:22 <BUTTMUNCH> it says like 1200 of 8000
01:08:52 <Elukka> more vehicles more better
01:09:43 <Elukka> technically you need to always have a vehicle loading to get 100%, but i only do that with cargo
01:09:57 <Elukka> passenger stations hover at like 70-80% or something
01:10:12 <FLHerne> Advertising might help, too
01:10:51 <BUTTMUNCH> i’ll start adding more bus stations transporting people to airplanes
01:17:47 <BUTTMUNCH> is there a console command to transfer money to a player in mp?
01:17:50 <BUTTMUNCH> clicking is annoying
01:26:22 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: okay, there's one thing i'm confused about with CETS. are the 45 deg and intermediate views also supposed to be shortened by 1 px in each direction (for buffers/gangways) like the sidew view, or not?
01:27:32 <Elukka> that's how i've been doing them but i looked at some of oberhümer's sprites and he doesn't seem to
01:28:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the ET 85 looks a bit odd in / view
01:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> so i'd rather say he's wrong
01:30:19 <Elukka> hey, do the langholzwagen retain that thingy in the middle for holding the logs when they're used as normal stake wagons?
01:31:06 <Eddi|zuHause> probably yes, but rotated lengthwise
01:38:13 <BUTTMUNCH> is there a way to legally remove a town?
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01:43:10 <Eddi|zuHause> towns cannot be removed
01:43:24 <BUTTMUNCH> what if I destroy every building and road
01:43:48 <Eddi|zuHause> then you have a 0 population town, which may or may not grow back
01:44:34 <BUTTMUNCH> cuz only now i understand how the town placing works
01:45:41 <encoded> what happens when you get caught bribing?
01:45:51 <BUTTMUNCH> you can’t do anything in that city anymore
01:45:57 <BUTTMUNCH> all actions are gone
01:53:45 <Elukka> eddi... the logs will be weird. they'll be bendy
01:53:52 <Elukka> can it somehow be treated as one vehicle when logs are involved?
01:54:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i'm not quite sure how yet
01:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause> draw the loaded pair as one long wagon, though
01:55:01 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly with some turning involved
01:55:22 <Eddi|zuHause> so in the slightly slanted views, make one bogey turned
01:57:12 <Elukka> i'm not sure it'd be noticeable on this wagon, since this is the longer type that is coupled as normal to each other, but seems like a good idea for the smaller ones with a lot of empty space in between
01:57:22 <Elukka> i have a hard idea picturing just how to draw it, though
02:00:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm imagining like this: take the - view as 0, the \ view as 3, and the in-between ones as 1 and 2. in the 1 view, copy the front wagon from the 2 view, and the back wagon from the 0 view, draw the wood according to the 1 template
02:00:41 <Eddi|zuHause> in the 2 view, take the front wagon from 3 and the back wagon from 1, and draw the wood like 2
02:01:29 <Eddi|zuHause> the 0 and 3 view are straight, like normal
02:12:11 <Elukka> i suppose i should draw a sprite with processed lumber too
02:21:25 <BUTTMUNCH> if cities are happier with you, do towns gro faster?
02:38:09 <Elukka> this is an odd sprite... i'd like to see it in game before i start doing all the variants to see if there are issues
02:44:16 <Elukka> in the meantime, i found some nice references for prussian stake/low side wagons in this year's fleischmann catalog so i guess i'll do those
02:54:30 <BUTTMUNCH> lol funding towns in multiplayer is insane
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04:55:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: why is it length 4? i see only 3 and 5 in the tracking table
04:57:36 <Elukka> if i remember right... the length 5 one is era II, and i figured i should do an era I wagon, and i figured the longer one would be more useful to do first since it can function as a normal stake wagon
04:57:41 <Elukka> i didn't realize it wasn't on the tracking table
04:57:59 <Elukka> it's based on the bavarian wagon, i understand only the prussians kept the short (length 3) ones around for very long
04:59:57 <encoded> openttd needs highways
05:00:03 <Eddi|zuHause> you have length source?
05:00:09 <encoded> or atleast multi lane roads
05:01:11 <Elukka> the 'info about the original' tab talks about the length of the real wagons
05:01:37 <Eddi|zuHause> wheelbase != length
05:02:07 <encoded> and a federal goverment to build them
05:03:11 <Elukka> the length is based on the length of the model which jives with the real vehicle's wheelbase visually
05:03:59 <Elukka> the big difference to the shorter ones is they seem to be coupled to each other conventionally, not by a long drawbar
05:05:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i noted 9300mm for the second Ep I wagon, and 9450mm for the Ep II one
05:05:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll put 8999 for now, that'll round down to length 4
05:06:01 <Eddi|zuHause> may be better this way
05:08:38 <Elukka> one of the bavarian wagons according to the model's dimensions is 8465 mm
05:12:18 <Elukka> out of curiosity, what exactly do the goods wagons class districts mean?
05:12:25 <Elukka> does it have something to do with where they were originally used, build, or what?
05:17:03 <Eddi|zuHause> no, they're just randomly chosen city names, to group similar wagon types
05:18:33 <Elukka> well, it's more descriptive than Ghmglls 37 or something
05:27:43 <Eddi|zuHause> so, pushed now, grf should be available shortly
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05:36:25 <Elukka> high capacity hopper cars for coal and ore transport appeared some time in the 20's, but smaller, conventional high side wagons were used for the same purpose for a long time
05:36:40 <Elukka> i dunno if there can be any gameplay use for the latter once the hoppers appear
05:36:56 <Elukka> dbset handles it by simply not having any of the early high capacity hoppers
05:37:30 <Eddi|zuHause> you worry about the drawing, i worry about the gameplay :)
05:38:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the hoppers may not be refitable to all cargos the open wagons are
05:40:42 <Elukka> there's another such oddity in dbset: streamlined br06's all over because they're simply the best passenger locomotive for a long time
05:41:02 <Elukka> some factors just don't translate to game terms
05:41:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i rarely use it, actually
05:42:43 <Elukka> i think rare or unique vehicles like it should have some downside in game
05:43:10 <Elukka> heh. i remember in railroad tycoon 2 the pennsylvania GG1 obsoleted everything else for a very long time
05:44:51 <Elukka> hm. i should try drawing a locomotive for a change some time
05:45:12 <Elukka> though i guess oberhümer's got most of that covered
05:47:37 <Eddi|zuHause> we're not running out of engines to draw anytime soon :p
05:49:36 <Elukka> yeah, but we already have a playable set of era I engines but wagons are extremely lacking
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06:14:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23753 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix [FS#4952]: use plurals for the infrastructure stats
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13:04:42 <TrueBrain> I was sick of the pages of purple text in my window :P
13:14:10 <Rubidium> what purple? It's all green ;)
13:15:14 <__ln__> you're confusing green with cyan
13:15:45 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I dunno why you would be watching in my window, but I also wonder why you think it would be green :D
13:17:48 <TrueBrain> hello mister Wolf01
13:23:06 <TrueBrain> indexed RGBA .. now that would be mindblowing :D
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13:53:32 <BUTTMUNCH> what is an average end game income?
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13:57:06 <BUTTMUNCH> im now making my own airports with funded towns around them
13:57:52 <frosch123> BUTTMUNCH: about factor 10 to 20 between train income and train running cost
13:58:04 <frosch123> the rest matters on map size, industry count etc
13:58:11 <frosch123> and inflation of course :)
13:59:00 <frosch123> hmm, actually factor 10 to 20 only holds if you use only normal rail vehicles (no maglev etc) and no insane train lengths (> 10 tiles)
13:59:30 <BUTTMUNCH> how does that work anyway
13:59:35 <BUTTMUNCH> stations can’t be longer than 7 tiles
13:59:41 <BUTTMUNCH> i set trains to 14 long
13:59:48 <BUTTMUNCH> but i can’t build stations longer than that
13:59:50 <frosch123> you can make stations up to 64x64
14:00:02 <BUTTMUNCH> how would iachieve this?
14:00:19 <frosch123> there are a lot of poor kids who play on complete flat maps, build 64 lines in parallel to run 32 trains on them or so
14:00:39 <frosch123> go to advanced settings, increse max station spread to 64, and use drag&drop to build the station
14:00:43 <frosch123> resp. build it from multiple parts
14:01:27 <BUTTMUNCH> i flattened a piece of land and made my own place
14:03:49 <BUTTMUNCH> i have 2 of those one in left bottom corner, other one in top right corner
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14:59:47 * Hirundo ponders changing static grfs during the game
15:00:28 <Hirundo> It'd make most sense if changes would affect both new games and the current game
15:02:42 <frosch123> same as basesets :)
15:02:54 <frosch123> except you cannot change basesets inside game either
15:03:07 <frosch123> you have to go back to main menu first
15:04:15 <Hirundo> Currently you can edit (assuming you have the required privileges) static newgrfs already in-game
15:04:36 <Hirundo> Removing that capability would make no sense
15:05:17 <frosch123> how do you do that?
15:05:26 <frosch123> reload config or something like that?
15:05:29 <Hirundo> Currently they are just in the same list
15:05:49 <Hirundo> You can edit static grfs in-game, but upon reloading changes are lost
15:05:56 <frosch123> you can remove them, but not add?
15:06:07 <Hirundo> And adding grfs as static is indeed not possible
15:06:08 <frosch123> resp. aren't the even added to the save when applying? :o
15:06:18 <Hirundo> All added grfs are non-static
15:06:42 <Hirundo> Simply because the GUI doesn't have the 'add as static' button (yet?)
15:07:14 <frosch123> displaying them in the same list has always been weird, since you can change the order, but it is not saved
15:07:52 <Hirundo> Perhaps I should file a bug report about it ;-)
15:08:29 <Hirundo> Basic issue is that _grfconfig_static contains a list of static grfs used for new games
15:08:37 <Hirundo> _grfconfig also contains static grfs during a game
15:08:39 <frosch123> personally i would put static grf configuration into the game options, next to the basesets
15:08:43 <Hirundo> but these lists may or may not match
15:08:44 <frosch123> and not disaply them in the same list
15:09:08 <frosch123> afaik there is some STATIC flag in the grfconfig
15:09:14 <frosch123> if it is loaded as static
15:09:29 <frosch123> so they could be filtered from the list in the gui
15:09:49 <frosch123> (would be my fix to the bug report ^^ :p)
15:10:05 <Hirundo> If a grf is loaded as static and non-static, the static grf is removed
15:10:46 <Hirundo> so saving the list of static grfs in a game back to _grfconfig_static has problems
15:11:15 <frosch123> well, you would have to edit _grfconfig_static directly
15:11:25 <Hirundo> on the other hand, showing the list in _grfconfig_static during a game doesn't allow any errors to be displayed
15:11:25 <frosch123> no matter whether some of them are removed
15:11:36 <frosch123> (removed from the game, not from _grfconfig_static)
15:12:04 <Hirundo> If an error occurs when loading a static grf, you'd want to show that
15:12:23 <frosch123> ideally they should also display an error if they were removed for some reason
15:13:44 <Hirundo> so perhaps, double grfs should get some other treatment instead of removing them
15:14:53 <Hirundo> i.e. setting some flag that causes them to not be processed during grf loading
15:17:43 <Remi_Woler> is it expected behavior that in the "almost current" trunk (nightly from 3 days ago), you can no longer see the signs from opponents?
15:18:08 <Remi_Woler> Not in the list, nor in the world
15:18:14 <frosch123> there is a setting to hide them
15:18:37 <frosch123> no idea about the default :)
15:18:45 <Remi_Woler> found it, under transparency. That's new, I think
15:18:51 <TrueBrain> seens by the reports, I would say default is off frosch123 ;)
15:19:13 <frosch123> maybe :p and yes, it is new in 1.2
15:20:13 <Remi_Woler> I *just* taught my human competitor to place a sign if a train "won't move" again, and then the signs get hidden :P
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15:32:42 <Ammler> hmm, a little bit windy here
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16:40:11 <Elukka> interesting. in newer nightlies (possibly ever since EZ), the 32 bit simple blitter is a lot slower when zooming or scrolling around the map
16:40:43 <Elukka> i had it on because i had messed around with 32 bit stuff at some point and it didn't make a difference in normal play so i couldn't be bothered to turn it off, but now it sure does
16:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> use optimized or animated
16:42:12 <Rubidium> simple has never been fast, nor will it ever be fast
16:42:38 <Rubidium> it's basically the most trivial implementation
16:44:29 <Elukka> eddi, the new express wagons have the same issue as the compartment coaches where in the - view they have a 2 px gap rather than 1
16:45:29 <Eddi|zuHause> right... i wanted to investigate that
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16:48:48 <Elukka> hmm. the langholzwagen could maybe use a slight gap on the diagonals
16:49:16 <welshdragon> Good Afternoon/Evening/Morning All
16:52:46 <welshdragon> perhaps a slightly repetitive question (one I have asked before I think) but can saves from a patched build of OpenTTD be hacked into another patched version (say from IS2.1.1 to Chill's)?
16:53:15 <welshdragon> else I'm going to have a lot of repetition on my hands...
16:53:29 <Rubidium> welshdragon: I see no reason why they can't be
16:54:07 <Rubidium> assuming *YOU* come up with the logic for handing that properly
16:54:24 <welshdragon> I get 'unexpexted end of chunk' at the moment
16:55:06 <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: you need to add a lot of magic in settings.ini and afterload.cpp
16:55:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: i think i spotted the error, care to test?
16:57:17 <welshdragon> 'chunks' is kind of a weird term to use for a file :p
16:57:36 <welshdragon> unless 'm making a mistake eher
16:58:02 <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: a riff file is made of chunks
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17:08:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23754 /trunk/src/network/network_udp.cpp: -Fix (r23752): the locks aren't reentrant
17:09:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: binary now available at the devzone
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17:41:42 <Elukka> various combinations draw correctly too
17:43:25 <Elukka> i wonder if there'd be some way to improve the looks of the wheels on steam locomotives
17:43:31 <Elukka> they look kinda odd to me currently
17:46:57 <Elukka> specifically the light grey
17:47:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i'm not really convinced about those either
17:47:47 <Eddi|zuHause> especially in / and \ view
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18:19:41 <Wolf01> nice, but looks derailed
18:22:14 <Eddi|zuHause> no wonder when there's a corner in the rails...
18:22:56 <michi_cc> Elukka: In my personal, totally subjective view I like it better when the carriages are visually more distinct. In the - view this is quite well done, bit IMHO the diagonal view could have a little more contrast there.
18:23:03 <Wolf01> so bend the rails too ;)
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18:29:03 <Elukka> bending the rails too is some kind of holy grail, isn't it :P
18:30:48 <Elukka> i did have some contrast issues, and i made the windows on the diagonal brighter than they 'should' be, but i'm not sure what more to do
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18:31:05 <Elukka> one possibility is making everything a notch brighter than they ought to be, which dbset and probably others do
18:31:08 <Elukka> that way you have more colors
18:31:26 <Elukka> that don't contrast each other too much
18:31:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: he means something that distinguishes one wagon from the other, like making the ends darker
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18:35:11 <Elukka> well, that'd involve either making them black (same color as the gangways which are pretty narrow) or actually brighter
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18:35:58 <Elukka> a darker green would just blend them in more
18:36:19 <Eddi|zuHause> just the end sections, not the sides
18:38:58 <Elukka> yeah i was talking about them
18:40:42 <Elukka> darker would make the ends either practically the same color and the sides, or near black (no green darker than that)
18:46:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23755 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
18:46:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: croatian - 3 changes by VoyagerOne
18:46:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: english_US - 5 changes by Rubidium
18:46:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: finnish - 5 changes by jpx_
18:46:20 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 32 changes by Devastator
18:46:20 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 8 changes by eloekset
18:57:47 <Zuu> Doh, tried to max out the non-custom settings that affect number of towns just to figure out that I had by mistake made a 2048x1024 and not a 2048x2048 map. So I had to re-run my test again. But now while writing this, it finished after some 29510 ticks :-)
18:58:53 <Remi_Woler> Zuu: purely out of curiousity: how do you test it? Like with what technology?
18:59:41 <Zuu> I record the result from GSController.GetTick() before setup start and then when setup is done. Print the difference.
18:59:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: make sure your town name generator has enough names
19:00:10 <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause: Does that limit the amount of towns created?
19:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> if it runs out of names, no further towns will get generated
19:01:59 <Zuu> Hmm, I think I got about 400 towns or so.
19:02:22 <Zuu> No idea how to see the town amount other than dividing the world population with the estimated average.
19:02:39 <Zuu> or by making an AI/GS output it.
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19:12:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that's really a "missing feature" on the town list
19:13:09 <Eddi|zuHause> but you can easily get like 3000 towns
19:16:53 <welshdragon> So, can I debug saves?
19:17:45 <Yexo> please ask your real question
19:20:04 <welshdragon> I want to find out where OpenTTD doesn't like the chunk size, Having defaulted the save back to vanilla settings it still complains about 'unexpected end of chunk'
19:20:11 <welshdragon> which is why I want to debug
19:24:48 <Alberth> set a breakpoint at the line that reports the error?
19:26:17 <Rubidium> -dsdl=9 and see the chunks being loaded
19:26:17 <Alberth> there seems to be a 'sl' debug setting as well (openttd -d sl=9)
19:26:59 <TrueBrain> sdl? Guess that is a typo?
19:28:10 <Rubidium> yeah, I like making typos
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19:28:19 <TrueBrain> I like making pies!
19:28:48 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23756 /trunk/src/lang/norwegian_nynorsk.txt: -Fix (r23755): ... and WT3 likes some strings that strgen doesn't like ;)
19:31:18 <welshdragon> where is Build While Paused hidden?
19:32:30 <welshdragon> i'm using the latest version of Chill's PP hca7f5804
19:32:53 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23757 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Unify the drawing of toggle buttons for boolean settings.
19:34:30 * frosch123 notes that tb will make the r30k pie
19:40:35 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23758 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp rail.cpp rail.h rail_cmd.cpp table/railtypes.h): -Feature: [NewGRF] Alternate rail type label list.
19:41:18 <welshdragon> Alberth: thanks, found it, it's changed since the IS2.1.1 version I've been playing :P
19:41:45 <welshdragon> i gave up tryin to make the saves compatible
19:41:46 <Alberth> welshdragon: the concept has not changed as far as I know :p
19:42:11 <welshdragon> Alberth: but the selection for the setting has :P
19:42:28 <Alberth> yeah, we made it less hidden ;)
19:43:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: hidden in plain sight :p
19:44:08 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: often a very good place :)
19:44:51 <Alberth> as demonstrated a few moments ago :p
19:50:55 * Zuu just got the evil idea of adding the consequence that congested towns get road works :-)
19:53:32 <Zuu> just stop town growth is not that evil after all :-)
19:55:19 <Alberth> just play tropical or arctic climate :)
19:55:51 <Zuu> Alberth: did you see my latest GameScript relaese just minutes ago?
19:56:13 <Alberth> I have not seen any gamescript yet :D
19:56:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r23759 /trunk/src/townname.cpp: -Fix (r17612)[FS#4951]: the check for duplicate town names wasn't really working
19:58:08 <Alberth> interesting, how do you measure congestion?
19:58:53 <Terkhen> interesting indeed :)
19:59:13 <Eddi|zuHause> great... so now i have a dependency-chain in the tracking table, but how do i sensibly use it (in term of translating it into model life/early retire)
20:01:53 <Zuu> Congestion is measured as [vehicles / squares]
20:02:31 <Eddi|zuHause> road works sounds nice :)
20:03:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23760 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 5 dirs): -Feature: Allow readonly display of NewGRF parameters, if GRF list may not be edited.
20:03:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but that may backfire... some "stupid" AIs take congestion as a reason to build even more vehicles
20:03:24 <Zuu> Maybe if you don't resolve the situation within some time, the town start road works.
20:04:12 <Zuu> Yes, several AIs does probably not listen for the road works event for example.
20:14:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:27:00 <__ln__> are there any starfleet ranks between captain and admiral?
20:28:11 <Alberth> the internets does not know ?? :O
20:30:46 <andythenorth> __ln__: try #trek :P
20:30:54 <__ln__> Alberth: i'm trying the internets, using the internet relay chat protocol search engine.
20:32:07 <__ln__> besides that's the kind of piece of trivia i'd assume at least someone to know by heart :)
20:34:27 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
20:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause> trivia: english and french people know "by heart", while german people know "by head" :)
20:37:39 <Eddi|zuHause> (occasionally germans also know "by hat" :))
20:38:33 <andythenorth> should FIRS have a parameter for primary production amounts?
20:38:58 <Eddi|zuHause> low/medium/high? perhaps...
20:42:31 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
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21:06:27 <Terkhen> another one of those 128MB flash drives modified to write bigger sizes in a loop?
21:08:52 <Elukka> andy, if you add that i'd like to try a game with high production but few industries
21:09:05 <Elukka> mainly because i like the aesthetics of longer trains
21:09:31 <Eddi|zuHause> kate gets _really_ slow when opening more than 100 files
21:11:45 <Hirundo> Is it possible to copy a GRFConfig, without copying the status, flags and other stuff that changes during grf loading?
21:12:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Hirundo: you mean like writing a preset?
21:13:17 <Hirundo> Not exactly, presets are just written to the ini file
21:13:53 <Hirundo> Currently, upon starting a new game, the newgame (normal / static) GRFConfigs are copied
21:14:48 <Hirundo> I'd like to apply changes made to the static in-game grf config apply to the static newgame config as well
21:15:18 <Hirundo> But plain copying copies all kind of unwanted status info
21:30:41 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
21:33:30 <frosch123> shall we add some disaster to ottd to advertise it?
21:33:50 <TWerkhoven[l]> or one thats actually a remake of the original as opposed to a new game that replays the original story?
21:34:52 <frosch123> hmm, some gs should trigger a news message in 2004: "ottd released" :p
21:35:08 <Terkhen> but it is looking good, if it was like the others I wouldn't even mention it
21:35:35 <Eddi|zuHause> civ IV had an event "civ released" where you could earn money or increase university output
21:36:18 <Terkhen> yes, FFH2 changes that event into a "fantasy game called civilization" :P
21:37:00 <Elukka> i loved the hell out of FFH2
21:37:26 <Alberth> frosch123: I liked the land slide disaster :)
21:37:41 <Elukka> "Set consists of 3 models of the class 03 express locomotive with tender. One each model in a version with the locomotive and tender body made of solid 18 carat gold, sterling silver, and solid bronze. 3 cut diamonds shine as triple headlights on each locomotive. 3 rubies serve to represent the marker lights on each tender. The locomotives are fully functional and are equipped with a 5-pole
21:37:45 <Elukka> unrelated, but hilarious z scale bling
21:37:57 <Terkhen> Elukka: I discovered it recently, it has been sucking most of my free time lately :P
21:38:08 <Elukka> i've been feeling like playing it again
21:38:20 <frosch123> Alberth: is that like earthquake? clear every second tile on the map?
21:38:41 <Elukka> i like historical games, but never really liked vanilla civ4 much. somehow the fantasy world seems more believable than the aztecs assaulting the united states with nukes for oil
21:38:58 <Terkhen> I play with / against my brother when I'm back home, it is really fun
21:39:12 <Elukka> i hope they do a mod for civ5
21:39:18 <TWerkhoven[l]> i preferred the advisors from civ2 (or was that 3)
21:39:23 <Elukka> i experimented with modding civ4 once
21:39:28 <Terkhen> nah, the guy who did FFH2 is working on commercial games now
21:39:44 <Terkhen> also, from what I heard civ5 modding sucks
21:40:36 <Eddi|zuHause> civ5 suddenly stopped working for me...
21:40:38 <Rubidium> so does modding for openttd 5; the modding interface is not even documented ;)
21:40:41 <Elukka> i took an old and simple 3D model, gave it some textures (my first try at texturing!) and jammed it into the game
21:40:57 <Terkhen> OpenTTD is completely moddable, I have the source :P
21:41:07 <Rubidium> Terkhen: not of OpenTTD 5
21:41:40 <Rubidium> it's still shrouded in mystery
21:41:49 <Alberth> everything you add to it!
21:41:54 <Eddi|zuHause> all existing source code of openttd 5 is available :p
21:42:21 <Elukka> civ4 was rather easier to mod than openttd :P
21:42:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that depends how far your mod wanted to go :)
21:42:58 <Terkhen> Elukka: I fixed a few annoying FFH2 bugs but coding civ4 mods is rather boring
21:43:20 <Elukka> well, it let you go pretty far with mods
21:43:22 <lugo> *9++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
21:43:22 <lugo> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
21:43:25 <lugo> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
21:43:28 <lugo> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
21:43:33 <lugo> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
21:43:34 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!lugo@209.141.56.5
21:43:35 *** lugo was kicked by DorpsGek (frosch123)
21:43:47 <Terkhen> heh, that guy never says anything and now that
21:44:07 <Terkhen> Elukka: you can only modify a dll and python code, the "basics" are hidden
21:44:14 <frosch123> maybe he dropped something on his keyboard :p
21:44:38 <Rubidium> he definitely said stuff before
21:44:48 <Rubidium> even fairly recently-ish
21:44:52 <Elukka> yeah but that means modifying most of the game
21:44:57 <Terkhen> really? I did not notice :)
21:45:03 <Elukka> there's xml, dll and python modding
21:45:34 <Terkhen> Elukka: yes, it is really confusing :P
21:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i never had a sufficent compiler for dll modding
21:45:38 <Rubidium> oh, you can mod OpenTTD with XMLs as well
21:45:56 <Rubidium> not very much... but still ;)
21:46:11 <Rubidium> (and only for certain platforms)
21:46:26 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
21:46:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the most elaborate "modding" i did was extracting the german translation of alpha centauri
21:47:00 * Terkhen has just started using XML at work and he already hates it
21:47:24 <__ln__> XML is the solution for everything!
21:47:30 <frosch123> ttdviewer can be modded using xml :)
21:47:36 <frosch123> it even has xsd validation
21:47:40 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
21:47:45 * Alberth folds __ln__ into xml
21:48:28 <frosch123> @unban *!lugo@209.141.56.5
21:48:29 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -b *!lugo@209.141.56.5
21:52:52 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
21:59:26 <appe_> i happend to do some elevation near a city
21:59:36 <appe_> and they no longer allow building near it
22:00:08 <frosch123> the terraforming does not matter
22:00:17 <frosch123> only the tree-killing which is involved with it
22:00:24 <frosch123> plant new trees, or bribe them :)
22:03:33 <appe_> built a statue for nothing :,(
22:03:57 <frosch123> a statue is never for nothing :)
22:05:45 <Elukka> glah. i wish the toggle to turn off yacd for cargo worked
22:05:57 <Elukka> i hear it has less issues for passengers, and it probably wouldn't be half as cpu killing
22:06:42 <peter1138> pretty sure it works
22:08:06 <Elukka> ...yeah, it might just not work with FIRS
22:08:11 <Elukka> i tested this but i don't remember the result :D
22:09:08 <peter1138> absolutely possitive it's unrelated to cargo sets
22:09:49 <Elukka> okay, some industries still say they have destinations, but it says 0 to 0 of the production should go there
22:09:55 <Elukka> is that how it's supposed to be?
22:10:19 <Elukka> seems to be random whether they have destinations listed or not
22:12:32 <Pixa> I've found that if I change the setting to off part way through a game, industries I've already looked at have destinations with 0 of 0, whereas others don't
22:15:38 <Elukka> i started a new test game
22:15:44 <Elukka> does it still work right, though?
23:02:53 <Elukka> i thought i'd have a lot of trouble making a decent stake wagon at openttd's resolution but i guess it's alright
23:05:28 <Elukka> 3x actually, but that's a normal size sprite :P
23:06:42 <Elukka> 1 click and the stakes are gone and it's a low side wagon
23:06:45 <Elukka> easiest 2 sprites ever
23:10:59 * Yexo wonders why people create caching mechanics if those makes things way slower
23:11:40 <Yexo> joomla/com_sh404sef module. Disable caching and page load time goes from 8-something to 0.7 seconds
23:12:11 <peter1138> bjarni-optimizations?
23:12:37 <Yexo> cache in plain text files, something like: "orig-url nice-url\n".....
23:12:48 <Yexo> after that using strpos to see if an url has a nice url attached to it
23:16:51 <Yexo> actually nvm, the cache file is a php file (with 3500 lines currently)
23:19:01 <Yexo> for some reason urls are compared using strpos, which resulted in 1.5M calls to strpos for one page load
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23:51:35 <swissfan91> does anyone know how to calculate HorsePower (hp) from kN?
23:54:50 <MinchinWeb> "The most common definitions [of a horsepower is] equal between 735.5 and 750 watts."
23:55:40 <swissfan91> but the values I was getting didn't match up.
23:56:18 <MinchinWeb> sure they do: 1hp = 0.7459999999980754 kW
23:56:28 <MinchinWeb> do you want kW or kN?
23:56:56 <swissfan91> sorry, kW. The websites that I find specs for trains, they give it in kW, and I need hp.
23:57:53 <MinchinWeb> well, I think your site works... 0.75kW = 750W
23:58:10 <swissfan91> okay so here is the RhB ABe 4/4 I
23:58:27 <swissfan91> and it is said to have 395kW power output
23:58:50 <swissfan91> and the converter gives that to be ~529
23:59:45 <MinchinWeb> 395kW / (0.75kW /hp) = 526.6667hp
continue to next day ⏵
