IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-12-15
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00:29:14 <kais58> anyone got a decent basic set of grf's I could put on my server that wouldn't scare away new players?
00:29:44 <Yexo> OpenGFX+
00:35:26 <kais58> I can only see industries roadvehicles trains and tress for opengfx+ in the downloader, is that right?
00:52:21 <Yexo> yes, there is also OpenGFX+Landscape and OpenGFX+Airports, but those require a nightly version of OpenTTD
00:53:44 <Eddi|zuHause> "requires nightly" is certainly not fitting the "don't scare away" proposition :p
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00:56:08 <kais58> yeah, I'm building our server to match the version in the fedora repo as it changes which is 1.3 currently as that's what our desktops run, so no chance of running nightlies :)
00:56:40 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, they have a version from the future? :p
00:57:02 <kais58> 1.1.3...
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04:20:47 <Elukka>
04:20:51 <Elukka> a slight incongruity between the size of the locomotives and coaches
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07:33:44 <planetmaker> moin
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08:01:13 <dihedral> good morning
08:01:16 <appe> Elukka: how cute
08:02:28 <appe>
08:02:31 <appe> it's a nice one
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08:45:27 <Elukka> ...
08:46:18 <Elukka> the i-have-issues-with-human-sexuality-and-i-wanna-make-my-denial-law -bill
08:46:32 <appe> yeah
08:46:38 <appe> i think its horrid
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09:06:57 <peter1138> that's 8 months old
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09:09:21 <appe> im finding it hard to find new info about it
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09:38:39 <peter1138> hmm, pikka's level crossings have no signs/lights/barriers :S
09:44:48 <planetmaker> those make lot of work, if you want to cater for left and right side traffic, open and closed state, snowy and non-snowy state
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09:50:32 <peter1138> simple lights don't
10:09:29 <fjb|tab> Moin
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12:25:59 <Nite> Hi
12:26:32 <fjb|tab> Moin Nite.
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13:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> statistics of the day: "men with children work longer than men without children"
13:21:34 <appe> does the test imply wether or not unemployed is accounted for?
13:21:56 <appe> most fathers do need a job to continue being a father.
13:22:32 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: logic. men w ith children no longer wants to fuck his wife. Logic.
13:23:34 <__ln__> or: children make work less efficient, so it takes longer.
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13:25:20 <TrueBrain> after a child you lost parts of your brain?
13:31:23 <fjb|tab> TrueBrain: I don't see the logic there.
13:31:45 <TrueBrain> fjb|tab: how many children do you have? :P
13:34:12 <fjb|tab> Depends if you count my own or the children of my girlfriends. ;-)
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13:37:30 <fjb|tab> Moines glx.
13:37:47 <fjb|tab> Moin
13:38:52 <fjb|tab> Strange auto correction...
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13:54:28 <Amis> Hello o/
13:54:54 <Amis> I was wondering if it's possible to lower the rate at what the game places transmitters all over the map or at least turn it off?
13:55:19 <Yexo> no
13:55:27 <Yexo> you can enable the magic bulldozer and remove them that way
13:56:40 <Amis> But the problem is that each time I generate a map it's all ugly when zoomed out because there are transmitters all over the place
13:56:50 <Amis> It's plain ugly and there are unnaturally too much of em
13:58:24 <XeryusTC> if you live in a country where you have multiple mobile network operators then you'll notice that there are not too much in openttd ;)
13:59:02 <Amis> Pic related:
13:59:35 <Yexo> that map looks too empty anyway :p
13:59:35 <XeryusTC> and you can also make them transparent if you find them ugly
13:59:47 <Amis> Yexo, I like playing on huge map with big distances
14:00:47 <planetmaker> given the size of typical towns that does not look like many transmitters
14:01:52 <Amis> I guess I'll just use the rock newgrf if there's no option to remove it
14:02:02 <Amis> Btw, are there any year limit for lighthouses?
14:02:04 <Amis> I don't have any
14:03:52 <Yexo> they're only build near the edges of the map and IIRC also only if there is water nearby
14:05:31 <planetmaker> hm, near map edges only? I thought water vicinity was the only requirement. But granted, I didn't look at that piece of code so far
14:07:30 <Amis> Hmmm
14:07:41 <Amis> Now that's something I would also like to be changeable
14:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you can make a newobject grf
14:08:12 <Amis> Hahh
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14:12:23 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, but that won't change the com tower
14:14:08 <Amis> I wonder if an intelligent newgrf could be made that detects "peeks" in the generated landscape and places transmitters on the top of em
14:14:28 <planetmaker> objects are not auto-placed on world generation
14:14:49 <planetmaker> other than lighthouses and transmitters
14:15:36 <Amis> That means: ...?
14:17:37 <Amis> Transmitters on top of hills would at least make sense
14:22:40 <Belugas> hello
14:23:38 <planetmaker> arent't they on top of hills?
14:24:53 <Amis> planetmaker, nope
14:25:04 <Amis> I mean, not in OpenTTD
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14:25:56 * Belugas starts mumbling about discussion getting too RL oriented...
14:26:55 <Amis> ~.~
14:31:47 <planetmaker> Amis, I'm quite sure they're not in valleys. Looking at your map: it has so little topography that height hardly matters
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14:32:44 <fjb|tab> Moin Belugas.
14:33:43 <Amis> planetmaker, but I could image a newgrf that has a "roughness" slider for bigger, more smoother maps
14:34:09 <XeryusTC> s/slider/parameter/
14:34:34 <Amis> That
14:36:34 <planetmaker> I can imagine many things. But maps topography is not NewGRF-influenced.
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14:37:16 <kleinerdrache> hi there
14:37:21 <planetmaker> And yes, the newgame settings have parameters to adjust smoothness and size of features
14:37:25 <planetmaker> hi kleinerdrache
14:37:32 <planetmaker> do you breath fire?
14:38:33 <kleinerdrache> I have a railway station and a haven next to each other, and it says that can be connected with the ctrl key, but this doesn't work, how can I do that?
14:38:42 <kleinerdrache> both have their own names
14:41:27 <planetmaker> you can't connect existing stations
14:41:42 <planetmaker> you can only connect via ctrl new parts to an existing station
14:41:42 <kleinerdrache> planetmaker what now?
14:41:55 <planetmaker> even when they would not touch
14:42:26 <kleinerdrache> thats bad, but they are so close together. Maybe I build a new one next to it, move all by ship and then remove the first one?
14:42:57 <planetmaker> you can just delete one and rebuild it by using ctrl+click and then attach it to the other existing one
14:43:24 <planetmaker> just forget about the existing cargo. More hassle than gain ;-)
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14:46:36 <Amis> I had much trouble with reconfiguring all vehicles orders' when moving em to other stations till I found out about shared orders
14:46:41 <Amis> \o/
14:52:00 <fjb|tab> Sharing makes your life easy.
15:06:26 <peter1138> do you need an undo knob?
15:10:28 <fjb|tab> Psssssssst!
15:17:48 <Belugas> <PLAY AND WATCH> button?
15:19:09 <fjb|tab> That is called public server.
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15:28:52 <Belugas> good one :)
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15:36:07 <nitraat> hi all, hope someone here who knows the OpenTTD source well can help me out with a question
15:36:44 <nitraat> how is the number of days in transit calculated? especially with regards to waiting in a station and transferred cargo
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15:47:12 <TrueBrain> from moment it came into existance till you deliver it
15:47:18 <TrueBrain> kinda the most obvious one :)
15:47:44 <peter1138> not entirely true :)
15:50:12 <TrueBrain> odd, I cannot find anything on the wiki which specifies the term
15:50:14 <TrueBrain> it only uses it
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17:11:58 <Belugas> hoo.. Chirac kapput
17:12:05 <Belugas> no one is untouchable!
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17:40:28 <appe> chirac, that french duder?
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17:46:57 <Belugas> duder?
17:47:07 <Belugas> watzdat?
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17:54:47 <Rubidium> nitraat: every 185 ticks (default) the cargo is in a vehicle it is aged
17:59:21 <appe> Belugas: never mind.
18:01:55 <Belugas> ah
18:02:29 * Belugas enters the Kingdom of Ignorance
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18:08:55 <peter1138> what's more likely to see fruitition?
18:09:22 <peter1138> a) transport empire b) p1sim c) openlocomotion
18:09:47 <peter1138> *fruition
18:09:50 <SnowDragon> None
18:10:34 <Alberth> a) seems to make some progress at least
18:10:44 <Belugas> a) is the one with the more code written, i'd say a). But the dev team is... dunno... not... open?
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18:11:08 <Alberth> although 'yay another window' gets a bit tedious :)
18:11:26 <Alberth> the team is just 1 person afaik
18:11:40 <Rubidium> Alberth: but so is the 32bpp thread ;)
18:12:23 <Alberth> 32bpp may be sooner finished that TE :)
18:12:25 <Rubidium> just for the 32bpp thread there are still some 20k sprites to be drawn, and I guess the amount of windows in TE will be two orders of magnitude smaller
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18:13:33 <Alberth> windows is just interface, the real stuff is behind that
18:16:56 <Belugas> mmm... Asus Transformer Prime delayed to the 20th of december :(
18:17:00 <Belugas> bad...
18:17:06 <Belugas> one toy less under the tree :S
18:17:57 <fjb|tab> Alberth: But you need an interface to make things usable.
18:18:30 <Rubidium> fjb|tab: not always
18:18:40 <Alberth> fjb|tab: yes, but it is not the primary problem of the program imho
18:18:47 <fjb|tab> Belugas: But it will be cheaper next year.
18:18:58 <Rubidium> e.g. we need zoomed in sprites to make the zoom in (more) useable ;)
18:19:39 <Belugas> fjb|tab: agreed. But we'll have 1% tax rate increase by then
18:20:34 <Alberth> fjb|tab: that is, it is relatively easy to create yet another window, especially the kind of windows he is doing. It does not add to the core engine however
18:21:32 <fjb|tab> Rubidium: I was speaking about interfaces in general, not that 32bbp stuff which I don't care for.
18:22:27 <Terkhen> hello
18:23:52 <fjb|tab> Belugas: But it will be more than 1% cheaper in a few weeks.
18:24:35 <fjb|tab> Moin Terkhen .
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18:29:04 <Belugas> hey Terkhen :)
18:29:34 <Belugas> fjb|tab, when I see the rate at which they are getting cheaper, i'm not sure i'll have a good deal before summer :(
18:29:40 <Belugas> I WANT MY TOY NOW!!!
18:29:51 <Belugas> ooops... sorry dear.. OUR TOY
18:31:25 <fjb|tab> Belugas: The price will stay high as long as nobody can buy it.
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18:35:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23519 /trunk/src/script/api/doxygen_filter.awk: -Change: do not export enum values in the AI documentation
18:36:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23520 /trunk/src/script/api/script_engine.hpp: -Fix-ish: wrong @param name causing missing documentation
18:36:39 * fjb|tab will have to play with an Archos 80 G9 until then.
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18:39:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i find it worrying that patents have degraded to a system how one can most effectively destroy the other guy's christmas sales.
18:40:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23521 /trunk/ (17 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: use the actual enum values from the 'core' in the API when they refer to the in-game values in the cases where that is possible and sensible
18:45:24 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23522 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt korean.txt unfinished/urdu.txt):
18:45:24 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:24 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: catalan - 19 changes by arnau
18:45:24 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: korean - 22 changes by junho2813, telk5093
18:45:24 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: urdu - 1 changes by haider
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18:46:19 <Belugas> fjb|tab: WE do not like to wait :)
18:46:32 <Belugas> Archos 80? is it good?
18:46:48 <Belugas> "will have to play.. until then" you want the prime too?
18:48:14 <fjb|tab> Belugas: waiting for the prime too. The Archos is ok.
18:48:22 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23523 /trunk/src/lang/korean.txt: -Fix: language compilation error
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19:11:57 <fjb|tab> Belugas: The display of the Archos is not the best and the case feels weak. But it is fast. It still has somet trouble playing HD videos with a high bit rate. And you have to buy an additional license to play mpeg videos with the build in player.
19:13:13 <Belugas> yurk...
19:13:29 * Belugas hopes prime will be as good as they say :)
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19:15:01 <fjb|tab> Three prime will be a lot faster, but the Archos is cheap and gets constant updates.
19:15:14 <fjb|tab> The
19:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> "firefox now too big to compile under win32"
19:16:01 <fjb|tab> Oh oh…
19:16:44 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently the "profile guided optimization" linker phase exceeds 3GB ram
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19:19:58 <Belugas> yeah... 4 core cpu will help indeed :) plus the battery life and all.
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19:21:42 <kleinerdrache> is it possible to get an overview over railway stations to see how much things/passengers are waiting?
19:22:13 <Eddi|zuHause> click on them?
19:22:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the station list has small icons displaying how much is waiting as well
19:23:24 <fjb|tab> Yes, just click at the stations button in the toolbar.
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19:24:31 <kleinerdrache> thanks fjb|tab
19:24:37 <andythenorth> hello
19:25:30 <fjb|tab> Moin andythenorth.
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19:52:45 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23524 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_core.cpp ai_scanner.cpp ai_scanner.hpp): -Codechange: move the name of the scanner to a level deeper
19:54:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23525 /trunk/src/ (20 files in 3 dirs):
19:54:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Codechange: make Window::flags4 WindowFlags instead of uint16, with only values known in WindowFlags (and move out 2 timers to their own variable)
19:54:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Codechange: rename Window::flags4 to Window::flags
19:54:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Codechange: move some non-inline functions from .hpp to .cpp
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20:46:45 <lappro> hi all
20:47:19 <Zuu> Hello lappro
20:47:30 <fjb|tab> Moin lappro.
20:47:55 <lappro> wow wouldn't have thought the chat of this originally old game would be this active :O
20:49:04 <lappro> just came here after seeing yogscast vid :P though i would discover some ancient stuff, its quite the opposite
20:49:17 <V453000> you obviously do not realize what openttd offers :p
20:49:20 <V453000> welcome
20:50:08 <lappro> anything important i need to know? or should i just pioneer my way through the community/game/something i dont know yet?
20:50:27 <V453000> discovering on your own is best I think :)
20:50:54 * Zuu agrees
20:51:27 <lappro> yea 1 question, i couldnt find a server file or something so i can run my own server for friends im going to invite?
20:52:05 <Zuu> You don't need a separte OpenTTD version for that.
20:52:18 <Zuu> You need to set up your network properly however
20:52:19 <lappro> its build into the client?
20:52:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, every client can act as server
20:52:50 <Eddi|zuHause> just start a multiplayer game
20:52:51 <lappro> thx for the info
20:54:38 <Zuu> @ports
20:54:38 <DorpsGek> Zuu: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
20:55:13 <Zuu> For portforwarding see above.
20:55:21 <lappro> thx :D
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20:59:56 <lappro> bye zuu?
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21:04:06 <Zuu> hello again :-)
21:05:10 <Zuu> Windows decided to screw up my keyboard input each time I pressed Alt GR until I forced it to work by switching keyboard layout back and forth. A reboot fixed that. :-)
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21:12:31 <lappro> is there a tutorial available?
21:12:36 <Zuu> Yes
21:12:45 <Zuu> Download TutorialAI
21:12:56 <Zuu> (from online content in the game)
21:13:09 <Zuu> Set it as AI opponent and start a new game.
21:13:57 <lappro> i can download that from within the game or do i have to download it from the site or something and put it in the game directory
21:14:16 <Zuu> Start the game and click on the lower left button in the menu.
21:14:26 <Zuu> It should say "online content" or similar.
21:14:47 <lappro> got it thanks
21:15:03 <lappro> i shall check it out tomorrow, bed time now :P
21:15:21 <lappro> bye all
21:15:22 <Zuu> That tutorial is a bit experimental. For longer tutorials, see the wiki or youtube.
21:15:57 <lappro> i will see if i understand it afterwards have to go now
21:16:01 <lappro> thx btw
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21:16:05 <Zuu> good night
21:27:03 <Terkhen> good night
21:35:05 * andythenorth -> bed
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21:38:04 <peter1138> greebling
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21:52:53 <Eddi|zuHause>
21:53:13 <Eddi|zuHause> if you like conspiracies :)
21:54:33 <V453000> nice one :D
21:56:08 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23526 /trunk/src/ (37 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: unify cargos vs cargoes
21:56:31 <Eddi|zuHause> car goes wrrmm wrrmm
21:57:40 <TWerkhoven[l]> mine goes putputputput
21:57:43 <TWerkhoven[l]> :p
21:59:37 <TrueBrain> mine goes zoef
22:00:13 <Eddi|zuHause> what's cargös anyway?
22:01:40 <frosch123> a relative of cargøs
22:02:01 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23527 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: unify colo(u)r as far as it goes
22:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause> (my german mind is conditioned to do s/oe/ö/g)
22:02:52 <frosch123> oh, of course there is also cargœs
22:03:30 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: so you read gös all day?
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22:03:40 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: then read it as cargoës :p
22:04:09 <Eddi|zuHause> which brings us back to cars :)
22:04:17 <frosch123> i love my compose key ♥
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22:04:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i rather like dead keys
22:05:08 <frosch123> dead keys are the death of programming or so
22:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause> or let's say i've gotten used to them
22:06:00 <Eddi|zuHause> the only relevant dead key for programming is ^
22:06:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and you quickly learn to type [^][space]
22:06:21 <frosch123> there is also `
22:06:33 <frosch123> and ~
22:06:43 <frosch123> though maybe the latter is usually not dead
22:06:45 <Eddi|zuHause> ~ is not a dead key (usually)
22:06:55 <Eddi|zuHause> and ` is not used in many languages
22:07:09 <frosch123> sh :)
22:07:21 <Eddi|zuHause> use $() :)
22:07:25 <frosch123> though you can use xargs in some case
22:07:38 <Eddi|zuHause> that's better, because it can be nested
22:08:04 <Eddi|zuHause> what's usually more troublesome for programming is the placing of {[]} on german keyboards
22:08:15 <Alberth> and ' and "
22:09:05 <frosch123> or searching in vi an man :p
22:09:12 <frosch123> *and
22:09:58 * Alberth consistently fails to remember that possibility :p
22:10:12 <frosch123> searching in man?
22:10:29 <frosch123> it's the only way to use the bash manual :p
22:10:39 <frosch123> (well, if there is actually any)
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22:14:08 <fjb|tab> frosch123: Use tcsh.
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22:15:31 <frosch123> i use both tcsh and bash, that's why i am continuously failing at both :p
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22:21:58 <appe> evening
22:22:01 <appe> scones, anyone?
22:23:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23528 /trunk/ (111 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: move widget enums to widgets/NNN_type.h
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22:54:24 <V453000> ^^
22:58:31 <virrpanna> nyaa~~
22:59:30 <Eddi|zuHause> might need a few adjustments to lighting etc.
23:00:19 <V453000> nah, true colour :D
23:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and you should have different wagon sprite offsets depending on position_in_vehid_chain and motion_counter
23:01:29 <V453000> yes, this is just the first version :)
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23:09:54 <frosch123> nightoes
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23:13:24 <Immy> Hi there, I was wondering if it is possible to change the "victory"/"win" conditions in the multiplayer mode of the game.
23:14:23 <dotwaffle> silly question: if a train is at 100% full of passengers, but won't leave a station, and has any orders, but specifically not "full load" - any ideas how to "fix" it so it will leave without hitting skip?
23:18:59 <planetmaker> dotwaffle: most likely: improve your signaling
23:19:29 <dotwaffle> planetmaker: signalling?
23:19:43 <planetmaker> or, if the train carries other cargo, you use full load all and that cargo is not yet 100% loaded
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23:23:23 <dotwaffle> what's strange is the order isn't ful load!
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23:24:45 <planetmaker> dotwaffle: well. Needs more than words, I guess :-) i.e. a savegame
23:25:08 <planetmaker> Immy: not quite (yet)
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23:27:16 <dotwaffle> planetmaker: - much appreciated!
23:28:02 <dotwaffle> and yes, i suck at rail planning ;)
23:28:19 <planetmaker> everyone has his own style
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23:35:55 <Eddi|zuHause> lazyness is also a style! :p
23:37:15 <dotwaffle> =)
23:37:17 <planetmaker> dotwaffle: I honestly don't know.
23:37:31 <planetmaker> The train should just leave the station. It does if you tell it to skip orders
23:37:52 <planetmaker> interestingly the others do
23:37:58 <dotwaffle> planetmaker: exactly. it's *very weird*
23:38:45 <planetmaker> oh, no
23:38:50 <planetmaker> You gave it a timetable
23:38:58 <planetmaker> and told it to wait in the station for 316 days
23:39:56 <planetmaker> go to the orders screen of the train and click 'timetable' (upper right)
23:41:26 <planetmaker> click then on the first order and choose 'clear time'
23:41:33 <planetmaker> ^ dotwafflew
23:43:35 <dotwaffle> got rid of timetable, pressed skip twice, still happens :S
23:44:38 <dotwaffle> (last time i ever press autofill...)
23:45:22 <dotwaffle> it moves! and i have absolutely no idea what i hit! =)
23:45:31 <dotwaffle> thanks a bunch, i appreciate it a lot.
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23:45:54 <dotwaffle> i *thnk* i hit reset late counter
23:46:37 <planetmaker> of course it moves somewhen...
23:48:38 <dotwaffle> ah, but when train 27 (who shares orders) gets down there... IT WAITS! I have a feeling I'm just being a numpty and wasting your time ;)
23:49:12 <Eddi|zuHause> just reset the counter there as well, it'll sort out eventually
23:49:51 <planetmaker> yeah. Resetting all time table stuff does the trick
23:49:54 <dotwaffle> yeah, it did that. just need to find if i "experimente" with any other timetables ;)
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