IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-12-05
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03:17:13 <Nite_Owl> Any ye ole developer types still around ??
03:19:17 <Nite_Owl> Always the wrong time of day for me...
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03:19:42 <Nite_Owl> or is it "wrong time of night" ?
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03:27:39 <Nite_Owl> Anyhoot - there is a serious game crashing flaw in tonight's compiled nightly release (r23432). Open the "available trains" drop down and as you click down the list, at some point, the game will crash. I tried this with several train sets. I suspect that the culprit might be commit 23419 as it is the only commit dealing with sprites but I could be wrong. The previously released compiled...
03:27:41 <Nite_Owl> ...nightly (23401) works correctly.
03:31:01 <Nite_Owl> This should be easily repeatable for anyone giving it a try. Hopefully someone will read the logs at a more reasonable hour for your part of the world and see this info. I will try and be around at a more reasonable hour tomorrow should more info be needed.
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03:33:13 <Nite_Owl> If needed I will do the Flyspray thing as a last resort but this should be easy to duplicate. Later all.
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06:14:23 <planetmaker> moin
06:14:44 <Rubidium> moin planetmaker
06:22:21 <Prof_Frink> Monday rears its ugly head once more
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06:59:45 <Lachie> planetmaker: what up?
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07:18:15 <planetmaker> usually the direction anti-parallel to the gravitational vector
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07:23:45 <Lachie> it is said.
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07:30:00 <SpComb> today is a silly monday that doesn't actually exist
07:30:15 <V453000> oh great I am not going anywhere nor going to do any work then :D
07:30:38 <appe> :e
07:30:38 <SpComb> because tomorrow is a national holiday and yesterday was sunday
07:31:40 <V453000> hm I cant seem to replicate the bug Nite_Owl talked about at 04:27 CET :z
07:47:01 <peter1138> the joy of "easily reproducible" bugs
07:56:05 <planetmaker> NiteOwl's one?
07:56:25 <Xaroth> want a copy/paste?
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07:59:57 <planetmaker> I'd like a bug report with a step-by-step on how to reproduce with a crash log, Xaroth
08:02:32 <peter1138> quite
08:02:46 <Xaroth> planetmaker: wait what?
08:02:59 <Xaroth> I'm not going to figure that all out
08:03:03 <Xaroth> i got a LoL game to play! :P
08:03:32 <planetmaker> I can read the irc fine. But it's 100% pointless without more info or a crash log
08:03:38 <planetmaker> could as well not have been written
08:04:51 * Xaroth shrugs
08:04:54 <planetmaker> if one cannot reproduce it
08:04:59 <planetmaker> which I can't either
08:08:30 <V453000> I was actually scrolling through train lists all evening yesterday and I did not encounter any "serious game crashing flaw" as he refered to
08:19:16 <appe> does ttd always create a crash log?
08:19:20 <appe> or is that a feature
08:23:52 <planetmaker> ttd has no such feature
08:28:26 <appe> and where do you mean this should come from?
08:28:51 <Lachie> ttdp does?
08:30:26 <Yexo> appe: ttd usually refers to "transport tycoon deluxe", not to OpenTTD
08:31:28 <planetmaker> openttd usually does when it crashes
08:31:40 <appe> oh
08:31:54 <appe> i was refering to ottd. :)
08:33:01 <planetmaker> you should say what you mean otherwise you'll never mean what you say ;-)
08:35:37 <planetmaker> Lachie: ttdp iirc has also some sort of crash log
08:45:11 <appe> :)
08:48:25 <Lachie> that was more of a rhetorical question mark
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08:57:05 <Celestar> \o
09:00:33 <peter1138> morning
09:02:08 <Eddi|zuHause> why is there always a cat sleeping wherever i want to sit down?
09:02:47 <peter1138> because you haven't got rid of it yet
09:04:00 <peter1138> hmm, back in the office after 2 weeks off
09:04:08 <peter1138> no-one else in :p
09:04:56 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: "Hunde haben Herrchen, Katzen haben Personal" ;-)
09:08:35 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: how many cats you got?
09:09:14 <Eddi|zuHause> 2
09:15:59 <Celestar> ;)
09:20:56 * Celestar likes cats
09:24:37 <Lachie> I love cats. When we get a place that allows pets myself and the girlfriend are going to buy one
09:26:03 <Eddi|zuHause> where do you find places that don't allow pets?
09:26:51 <peter1138> rental properties
09:26:53 <peter1138> most don't
09:27:16 * Eddi|zuHause never heard about that
09:28:57 <planetmaker> in Germany you cannot disallow a cat iirc
09:29:07 <planetmaker> though you can disallow a dog
09:29:21 <Lachie> wish we had German rental laws then.
09:29:53 <planetmaker> but as usual: ianal
09:30:07 <Lachie> but the whole layout of the place isn't particularly pet-friendly regardless
09:31:44 <peter1138> telnet to imap server:
09:31:46 <peter1138> * BYE Connection refused
09:32:01 <peter1138> well no, you accepted the connection, then closed it...
09:32:35 <Lachie> derpaderp
09:34:52 <Lachie> alright, ECS, FIRS, what's more popular with the kids these days?
09:35:45 <peter1138> PBI :DF
09:36:15 <Lachie> that's what I use still, but I understand people like having a ridiculous amount of cargos
09:38:21 <peter1138> 32 isn't enough!
09:38:22 <Celestar> PBI?
09:38:28 <Celestar> plain basic industries?
09:38:58 <Lachie> Pikka's Base Industries?
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09:45:53 <Lachie> Could ofcourse just pick the 32 cargoes I feel would be most useful in the Australian climate and define them first
09:47:38 <peter1138> passengers, mail, lager, lager, lager, lager, lager, bruce
09:48:16 <peter1138> Lachie, define them first? are you talking refit masks?
09:49:15 <Sacro> some of them sheilas?
09:49:37 <Lachie> labels
09:49:38 <Sacro> peter1138: what happened to pikka's industries :(
09:49:45 <Lachie> and we like a good Draught too
09:50:27 <peter1138> they still work?
09:50:33 <peter1138> you can have 255 labels, iirc
09:51:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Lachie: if you restrict your GRF to OpenTTD 1.2 (nightly and above) then there's no need to stick to 32 cargos
09:51:48 <Lachie> considering the time it's going to take to bring the NSW Set back up to release standard, that's not a bad idea.
09:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause> below that, it's only the refit mask that has that limit
09:52:35 <Lachie> it may well be OTTD 4.7 by the time I actually get this released
09:52:39 <peter1138> :D
09:53:25 <peter1138> i remember seeing the landscape several years ago
09:53:50 <Lachie> yeah, that's still kicking around.
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09:54:08 <peter1138> it should be released :S
09:54:13 <peter1138> and stuck on bananas
09:54:23 <Lachie> the problem with the landscape is that the graphics aren't actually complete.
09:56:57 <Lachie> and while I don't mind my skill at recolouring train sprites and doing the odd original bit, drawing landscape tiles is beyond my skills and, to be completely honest tedious as fuck
10:07:05 <planetmaker> which landscape? The australian?
10:10:09 <planetmaker> <-- I implemented that once as a NewGRF as part of OpenGFX+ Landscape
10:10:48 <planetmaker> But I may only use that on the condition that I write a completely separate NewGRF. Well. That's not going to happen
10:12:13 <peter1138> what?
10:12:36 <peter1138> strange license terms?
10:12:42 <planetmaker> the graphics have no license
10:12:48 <peter1138> hm
10:12:51 <peter1138> useful
10:12:53 <planetmaker> and I asked the artist and concurrently implemented it
10:13:03 <planetmaker> and was done when I received that reply ;-)
10:13:26 <planetmaker> The graphics have been laying around for 5 years. I now know why
10:14:12 <peter1138> heh
10:14:29 <planetmaker> it would be released by now as savannah 'climate', if I'd had been given a 'sure, please do'
10:14:48 <peter1138> what was the exact response? heh
10:15:38 <Lachie> this is an interesting development.
10:16:11 <Lachie> yeah, those graphics come under my managerial wing
10:16:34 <Lachie> never knew you wanted them though
10:17:28 <Lachie> but yeah, the only reason they weren't released years ago is because they aren't strictly complete
10:17:53 <planetmaker>
10:17:58 <planetmaker> ^ peter1138
10:18:05 <Lachie> they're also meant to be temperate graphics :P
10:18:31 <planetmaker> Lachie: complete or not. I'd have done all necessary work myself to make it a complete landscape set
10:18:51 <planetmaker> I actually had done that, it just would need a few more exports from the graphics file
10:19:18 <planetmaker> no further coding work except a bit copy&paste required. Everything already templated
10:19:18 <Lachie> indeed. well, a complete release isn't that far away, so rejoice.
10:19:38 <Lachie> the whole thing's coded on my end, just needed a few extra pieces
10:20:12 <planetmaker> well. IMHO it doesn't make the response better ;-)
10:20:33 <peter1138> how is it tied into opengf?
10:20:34 <peter1138> +x
10:20:45 <planetmaker> by the name of the landscape newgrf
10:20:59 <planetmaker> which will give you wanter in opengfx style then
10:21:17 <Lachie> I understand where he's coming from though. I really hope I'm not creating animosity, I appreciate OpenGFX and how it's improved OTTD
10:21:24 <planetmaker> and actually roads and rails, too
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10:21:59 <Lachie> but it's always been, from an end user point of view, as something made by faceless people. coalroads has done a beautiful job on the graphics and he deserves full credit for it.
10:22:08 <planetmaker> Lachie: the preference of whatever base set doesn't lend this response good reason.
10:22:24 <planetmaker> Anyone is free to take my code, and modify it and attach additional / other sprites
10:22:28 <planetmaker> little work to do.
10:22:37 <planetmaker> But it's arrogant to assume I'll do that work, too
10:23:08 <planetmaker> "faceless people"?
10:23:42 <planetmaker> you think credits are not given?
10:23:43 <Lachie> put it this way. I don't know anyone who's worked on the OpenGFX. I assume from this discussion that you have, but I never knew before this instance.
10:24:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i agree, putting an "opengfx" label on your grf makes it very unpersonal
10:25:04 <planetmaker> And how could that be changed?
10:25:22 <planetmaker> why does it make it unpersonal?
10:25:33 <planetmaker> honest question
10:26:01 <planetmaker> of course, no single NewGRF covers what OpenGFX covers. Has to cover
10:26:05 <V453000> if you have a newgrf with only 1 name under it, it is more obvious who did what I guess
10:26:15 <Eddi|zuHause> if you say "alpine climate" you have an immediate association "by MB"
10:26:25 <Eddi|zuHause> if you say "opengfx landscape" there is nothing
10:26:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it's an anonymous mass
10:26:46 <peter1138> + SetRoadType(t, ROADTYPESTORE_SECOND, rt2);
10:26:47 <peter1138> hmm
10:26:51 <peter1138> i guess this is my roadtypes code...
10:27:11 <Lachie> honest answer. It just seems like each GFX is just another opengfx set
10:27:25 <planetmaker> eh?
10:27:27 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: is that an "oh, i found what i was searching for 2 weeks ago" :p
10:27:35 <peter1138> no, not really
10:27:43 <peter1138> although it is in a dir called "trunk"
10:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not like that ever meant anything :p
10:28:46 <Lachie> my wording's poor at this time of the night. Spend all day creating english and now I have no capability to write anything resembling sense.
10:29:09 <peter1138> hmm, and my attempt at delaunay/voronoi
10:29:20 <planetmaker> well. But sounds like I just should scrap OpenGFX*. And leave ;-)
10:29:22 <Lachie> what I mean is, there's a certain... anonymity about anything under the guise of OpenGFX
10:29:27 <Lachie> no.
10:29:30 <planetmaker> Not appreciated. Anonymous. Pointless
10:29:40 <planetmaker> And considered bad. Not worth to contribute
10:29:46 <Lachie> you completely disregarded the very first thing I said befoer I started talking about this.
10:29:53 <planetmaker> That's the attitude communicated. Frequently
10:30:02 <peter1138> opengfx is kinda anonymous
10:30:15 <peter1138> i don't think that's anything bad though
10:30:33 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody said that it's bad
10:31:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but i mean that i understand why some artists don't want to throw their stuff in there
10:31:27 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, it can easily be taken as implied
10:31:54 <peter1138> personally i prefer the original graphics, but i think opengfx is fantastic too
10:32:18 <peter1138> part of that is no doubt a "what i'm used to" thing too
10:32:26 <Lachie> at first I preferred the original graphics but now I use OpenGFX. I prefer it now.
10:32:34 <Lachie> indeed, it's a bit of a change.
10:33:29 <peter1138> now that we had a text viewer, who wants to implement support for hyperlinks? :D
10:33:33 <peter1138> *have
10:35:02 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: implement a html browser :)
10:36:56 <peter1138> someone™ should™!
10:37:41 <appe> hah
10:37:53 <appe> that reminds me
10:38:03 <appe>
10:38:31 <Yexo> <- very much unfinished
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11:02:09 <Lachie> I'm a tiny bit turned around by the syntax in an NML cargo table. The idea I'm getting is that it goes (eg) like PASS [, COAL [, MAIL [, etc etc etc?
11:02:32 <Eddi|zuHause> no
11:02:35 <Yexo> cargotable { PASS, COAL, MAIL }
11:02:51 <Yexo> [] is used in the documentation to indicate that part is optional
11:02:56 <Eddi|zuHause> [] in the syntax means "this part can be left out"
11:03:13 <Lachie> ah. that would explain why it made no sense to me. cheers. :)
11:06:53 <planetmaker> Yexo: the line in must read [ [ NSWorkspace sharedWorkspace ] openURL:[ NSURL URLWithString:[ NSString stringWithUTF8String:url ] ] ];
11:07:18 <Yexo> ok, that was pretty much a guess based on a simple search
11:07:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea how to read objective c
11:09:11 <planetmaker> [ NSxxx blah:blub ] is the same as NSxxx::blah(blub)
11:09:13 <planetmaker> roughtly
11:09:21 <planetmaker> -t
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11:29:43 <planetmaker> in any case, the patch to view the website before download works well for me, Yexo ;-)
11:30:06 <planetmaker> it even opens the page as I would want in a tab, thus obeys my browser's default settings well
11:30:42 <Yexo> there is no code yet for linux, and that is the hardest case I think
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11:31:21 <peter1138> yeah
11:31:40 <planetmaker> would still help 85% of the players ;-)
11:31:43 <peter1138> DESKTOP_SESSION="gnome"
11:31:53 <peter1138> what's that for kde/etc ?
11:32:08 <peter1138> if DESKTOP_SESSION == "gnome" then gnome-open url
11:32:15 <peter1138> if DESKTOP_SESSION == "kde" then do kde's thing
11:32:35 <peter1138> else ... erm... something else? heh
11:33:15 <Yexo> xdg-open, gvfs-open
11:33:34 <peter1138> oh, xdg-open's a good choice
11:33:44 <peter1138> should be fairly standard these days
11:33:45 <Yexo> kfmclient exec <url> <- I think that for kde
11:33:50 <planetmaker> I have no such variable here, peter1138
11:33:57 <peter1138> planetmaker, what OS?
11:34:02 <planetmaker> suse linux
11:34:07 <peter1138> what DE?
11:34:13 <Yexo> planetmaker: do you have either GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID or KDE_FULL_SESSION?
11:34:13 <peter1138> do you have xdg-open?
11:34:13 <planetmaker> kde
11:35:02 <Yexo> oh, there is also "sensible-browser" and "x-www-browser" to chose from
11:35:06 <planetmaker> KDE_BUILD_GLOBAL_SYCOCA, KDE_USE_IPV6 and KDE_USE_IDN... nothing else related to my DE
11:35:07 <peter1138> they're debian things
11:35:40 <peter1138> planetmaker, that's silly :)
11:35:42 <planetmaker> I have a WINDOWMANAGER variable
11:35:46 <peter1138> planetmaker, no xdg-open?
11:35:59 <planetmaker> I do have that, yes
11:36:03 <peter1138> okay good
11:36:07 <peter1138> i vote for just using that
11:36:44 <planetmaker> indeed, looks like that's tailored for exactly that purpose
11:37:05 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 500/26
11:37:05 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 19.2307692308
11:37:27 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (500/26-19)*26
11:37:27 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 6.0
11:37:29 <peter1138> oh good QC's updated now
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11:38:34 <peter1138> it is the truest of the brainy ones
11:39:19 <TrueBrain> who? where? what? when? why?
11:39:20 <planetmaker> yup
11:39:29 <planetmaker> questionable content
11:42:11 <peter1138> planetmaker, your landscape has dots on it?
11:42:47 <planetmaker> in that screenshot: yes
11:42:50 <peter1138> what are they?
11:42:56 <planetmaker> missing grid sprites
11:43:00 <peter1138> hm
11:43:02 <planetmaker> thus the transparent ? icon
11:43:10 <peter1138> ah
11:43:44 <planetmaker> cba to compile that just for the test
11:43:49 <peter1138> indeed
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11:56:35 <Eddi|zuHause> it always strikes me as odd every year that the dutch celebrate "nikolaus" one day early
11:59:54 <peter1138> they're dutch, say no more
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12:29:17 <peter1138> good news: roadtypes is too far gone, it needs to be rewritten
12:29:30 <Nite_Owl> Any Development Team Members around ?
12:29:36 <peter1138> none
12:29:48 <Nite_Owl> Oh good...
12:29:51 <andythenorth> great
12:29:56 <andythenorth> peter1138: watertypes
12:30:01 <peter1138> we have them
12:30:40 <Nite_Owl> Are you aware of the fatal flaw in yesterday's compiled nightly ?
12:31:08 <peter1138> you need to post your crash files
12:32:26 <planetmaker> Nite_Owl, always make a bug report about such things
12:32:32 <andythenorth> we need fast flowing or slow flowing rivers :P
12:32:41 <Nite_Owl> Will do
12:32:52 <andythenorth> we actually found a valid case for watertypes
12:32:55 <andythenorth> but I forgot it
12:32:59 <andythenorth> :?
12:33:15 <peter1138> oh, water classes are full
12:33:16 <planetmaker> and tell us how we can reproduce your crash as part of the report
12:34:48 <Nite_Owl> Will do again
12:35:03 <peter1138> you didn't the first time :)
12:36:20 <planetmaker> Nite_Owl, your description as on IRC didn't allow anyone to reproduce it
12:37:12 <planetmaker> thus be more specific
12:40:11 <peter1138> signals are obvious at 2x :)
12:40:24 <Nite_Owl> "Open the "available trains" drop down and as you click down the list, at some point, the game will crash." Sorry I left something out - Set the year to 2050 so that the drop down list is very long. As you click on trains near the bottom of the list you get the crash.
12:40:55 <Nite_Owl> I will try and reproduce it again - give me a few minutes
12:40:57 <andythenorth> oh
12:41:08 <andythenorth> ship canals + non-ship canals
12:41:11 <peter1138> nope, no crash here
12:41:11 <andythenorth> maybe that was it
12:41:30 <andythenorth> and also let logs go down rapids
12:42:30 <Nite_Owl> I just got it to crash again - will post the files
12:44:41 <Nite_Owl> Dang it - the full screen shrank and it will not let me out of the crash to create the files
12:47:21 <planetmaker> if the list is very long, you're most likely also using a particular NewGRF. Important info which also is contained in the crash files
12:47:59 <Nite_Owl> I cannot get out to generate the crash files
12:48:12 <planetmaker> ?
12:48:19 <peter1138> openttd generates them itself
12:48:59 <planetmaker> should do so yes.
12:49:11 <planetmaker> Only in rare cases when the crash handler also crashes
12:50:02 <planetmaker> you should find them near your openttd.cfg
12:50:16 <Nite_Owl> Error - assertion fail - clicking on 'OK' or the red X will not close it - if I do it another way the files will not be generated
12:51:00 <planetmaker> an assertion fail is always more verbose already as it says where it fails
12:51:42 <planetmaker> if you can't get the crash files: take your savegame and give detailed instructions how we crash that savegame
12:53:34 <Nite_Owl> Assertion failed at line 1686 of... \src\window.cpp: w->nested_root->resize_y==0 || new_yinc % w->nested_root->resize_y ==0
12:54:39 <Nite_Owl> No save game - brand new game just started to test the crash which is the same circumstance that it occurred originally
12:54:43 <Yexo> are you using a custom font?
12:54:59 <Nite_Owl> Arial Bold
12:55:04 <Yexo> which size?
12:55:42 <Nite_Owl> small_size = 10 medium_size = 12 large_size = 14
12:57:55 <Nite_Owl> I closed it in Task Manager and got the crash files. Do you still want me to post them?
12:58:05 <Yexo> yes
12:58:15 <Nite_Owl> Will do
13:15:34 <Nite_Owl> Bug report done.
13:16:19 <Nite_Owl> Let me know if you need more information. I tried to get in everything I could think of that was relevant.
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13:18:42 <peter1138> i would guess r23429
13:18:47 <peter1138> but hey
13:23:04 <Nite_Owl> Clicking on a train would move a window beyond the main window boundaries? Could be tied into the code somehow I guess.
13:23:19 * Nite_Owl knows very little about coding
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14:15:42 <peter1138> that's why it's better to just post the report instead of speculate ;)
14:19:23 <Nite_Owl> True - I had hoped it would be something obvious though...
14:24:47 <Belugas> hello all
14:25:08 <Nite_Owl> Hello Belugas
14:27:15 <Belugas> hello Nite_Owl. been a while i've noticed you :)
14:28:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that must be because of the time shift :p
14:28:33 <Nite_Owl> Life has been taking up a lot of my time lately. It will be calling me in about half an hour.
14:28:41 <Eddi|zuHause> like Rubidium and Celestar_ don't live in the same time zone either :)
14:29:01 <planetmaker> hello Belugas
14:29:24 <planetmaker> Nite_Owl, as long as _life_ is calling you, you should be fine ;-)
14:29:31 <planetmaker> I'll only worry, if it's not life :-P
14:32:21 <glx> DorpsGek:
14:32:38 <glx> oups
14:33:00 <DorpsGek> yes
14:33:28 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.1.4 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only"
14:40:10 <TGYoshi> Triangles are so awful :)
14:40:46 <peter1138> cubicals!
14:40:57 <TGYoshi> if life was cubic..
14:41:01 <planetmaker> you mean voxels, peter1138
14:42:32 <peter1138> :)
14:48:23 <TGYoshi> You guys probably know this... lnx = ln(x) or ln(x)
14:48:29 <TrueBrain> dont' talk about voxels :'(
14:48:30 <TGYoshi> Instant confusion
14:48:31 <TrueBrain> it depresses me
14:49:57 <peter1138>
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15:00:24 <Nite_Owl> Time to fly - later all.
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15:10:08 <Belugas> salut planetmaker :) Sorry, i've been caugh in an unexpected meeting
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16:06:54 <peter1138> hmmm
16:07:36 * peter1138 ponders ez sprites
16:07:45 <peter1138> and what to do with the simple blitters...
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16:08:16 * planetmaker gives peter1138 an EZ sprite. And a cookie
16:12:45 <peter1138> yers
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16:33:38 <Rubidium> peter1138: why would ez sprites influence the blitters? Shouldn't it all be done in the loader?
16:34:11 <peter1138> if we add support for supplying different zoom levels, it matters a lot
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16:34:54 <Rubidium> but they currently already zoom in and out, right? So it's just zooming a different amount, or am I missing some very important point?
16:35:37 <peter1138> -simple blitters don't, they zoom out when they draw
16:37:22 <peter1138> well, could be adjust i suppose
16:37:42 <peter1138> +ed
16:38:22 <Rubidium> trashing the sprite cache would probably be bad when zooming in/out, right?
16:38:33 <peter1138> probably :)
16:38:49 <peter1138> and viewports...
16:39:46 <Rubidium> then I'd go for using the most zoomed in sprite and scaling that for the simple blitter, and some lines of documentation and maybe removal of the simple blitters when not a DEBUG build
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17:22:32 <grondo> hi!
17:22:47 <planetmaker> hullo
17:23:09 <grondo> im new in this game
17:23:23 <planetmaker> then have fun exploring it ;-)
17:23:49 <grondo> how i do to leave if i play online?
17:24:03 <planetmaker> the same way as in single player
17:24:26 <planetmaker> ctrl+w or 'leave game' from the main menu (disk icon)
17:24:39 <grondo> oh thanks!
17:24:56 <planetmaker> or ctrl+q to quit completely
17:25:14 <grondo> are somewone from sweaden here?
17:25:21 <grondo> sweden?
17:25:28 <planetmaker> yes
17:25:33 <Arkabzol> yes
17:25:42 <grondo> Hej!
17:25:47 <Arkabzol> Eh.
17:25:51 <planetmaker> English only :-P
17:25:59 <grondo> oh sorry!
17:26:04 <Arkabzol> I'm so-so about speaking other languages in crowds.
17:26:12 <Arkabzol> Even if there wasn't a rule about that.
17:26:45 <planetmaker>
17:26:50 <grondo> im not good to speak english here
17:27:00 <planetmaker> ^ has some nice tutorial for the first steps, IMHO
17:27:15 <grondo> oh thanks!
17:27:36 <planetmaker> we're working on an ingame tutorial :D
17:28:11 <Arkabzol> Ooh.
17:28:15 <grondo> nice!
17:28:15 <Belugas> i speak english not good too. but I do practice. and hey.. man... after a while, i'm almost like a native speaker! Guess they are right when they say practice makes perfect!
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17:28:30 <grondo> maybye a swedish chat!
17:28:32 <planetmaker> hehe, Belugas :-)
17:29:28 <Belugas> sounds like an add ;)
17:29:28 <grondo> im gonna play minecraft now bye!
17:29:37 <planetmaker> lol
17:29:52 <Arkabzol> OpenTTD clone in Minecraft. Now I'm getting bad ideas.
17:30:31 <Belugas> Why clone it? Use minecraft!
17:30:47 <Arkabzol> I meant like
17:30:57 <Arkabzol> OpenTTD like it is... but in Minecraft.
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17:47:48 <grondo> hi im back!
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17:57:53 <Belugas> I wonder if it would possible to ask the guys of Minecraft to do it like OpenTTD...
17:58:38 <planetmaker> which would be...?
17:58:40 <Kogut> please, define "guys of Minecraft" and "it"
17:59:23 <appe> i guess he is refering to ..trains
17:59:52 <TrueBrain> I think he listens to too much Bloodhungang
18:04:17 <Kogut> @Yexo "dbg:[misc][squirrel] Failed to compile '...\info.nut'" Is it possible to receive info what is wrong?
18:04:38 <Kogut> I enabled ai tools
18:04:46 <Kogut> r23432
18:07:16 <glx> check ai debug window
18:08:14 <Kogut> unfortunately, it is impossible to run ai as it is not recognised by openttd
18:08:18 <Kogut> as ai
18:10:25 <glx> anyway info.nut is very basic, it's hard to fail to write it ;)
18:10:32 <Terkhen> hello
18:11:01 <Kogut> well
18:11:06 <Kogut> it worked before
18:11:29 <TrueBrain> Kogut: check for missng ;
18:11:31 <TrueBrain> wrong }
18:11:33 <TrueBrain> stuff like that
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18:16:49 <Yexo> Kogut: the failure reason should be in the same console window as that line
18:17:37 <glx> and before that line if I read the source correctly
18:17:46 <Yexo> yes
18:19:06 <Kogut> it is appearing in stable (1.1.4, but not in trunk 23432)
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18:19:42 <loss> how do you play transport tycoon?
18:19:46 <Yexo> it works for me
18:20:24 <Yexo> <- Kogut see changes since trunk there
18:20:42 <Yexo> perhaps you're using AICONFIG_DEVELOPER instead of CONFIG_DEVELOPER?
18:20:49 <Yexo> that was recently changed in trunk
18:21:20 <loss> i mean where to download the full game, i don't get how you download it lol
18:21:27 <Yexo> from
18:21:40 <Yexo> loss: which os are you using?
18:21:46 <loss> os?
18:21:55 <Yexo> operating system, probably windows
18:22:00 <loss> windows 7
18:22:07 <Yexo> go
18:22:14 <Yexo> download the installer and run it
18:22:26 <Yexo> don't forget to enable the "download opengfx / opensfx" during installation
18:22:33 <loss> ah thanks mate.
18:23:44 <Kogut> @Yexo - I fixed this problem (CONFIG_DEVELOPER), but in trunk it still silently failes and in 1.1.4 it complains about undefined properties
18:24:06 <Yexo> can you upload it somewhere?
18:24:13 <TrueBrain> that switch is trunk only, is it not?
18:24:16 <TrueBrain> 1.2, not 1.1
18:24:19 <Yexo> CONFIG_DEVELOPER is not valid in 1.1.4 btw
18:24:48 <loss> yexo how come you have a yellow star next to your name :o?
18:25:16 <Yexo> loss: become I'm marked as "operator" for this irc channel I guess, it depends on your client how it shows that
18:27:02 <loss> kk
18:27:25 <Kogut> @Yexo - info.nut failed due to lack of medium_value = something, what was permitted in earlier version
18:27:58 <Yexo> can you provide an info.nut that works in 1.1 but not in trunk?
18:28:04 <Kogut> but still there is something strange as I receive console window, what is broken in the trunk
18:30:38 <Yexo> <- according to the documentation "medium_value" was already required in 1.1.3
18:31:47 <Kogut> whatever
18:32:03 <Kogut> On windows 7
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18:32:27 <Kogut> I created folder named "bug" in ai folder, with empty file info.nut inside
18:32:30 <__ln_____> ciao a tutti
18:32:56 <Kogut> started openttd, recent trunk (23432) - without console
18:33:23 <Kogut> started openttd, recent stable (1.1.4) - console appeared
18:33:43 <Yexo> do you start the stable 1.1.4 through a link?
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18:33:54 <Yexo> if you start it with "openttd.exe -d" a console will appear
18:34:10 <glx> debug build have console without -d
18:34:31 <Kogut> "do you start the stable 1.1.4 through a link?" - no, but I opened trunk through shortcut
18:34:49 <Yexo> is your 1.1.4 build a debug build?
18:34:59 <Kogut> running exe results in openttd starting with a console
18:35:20 <glx> then your shortcut adds the -d
18:35:29 <Kogut> <s>running exe results in openttd starting with a console</s>
18:35:32 <Kogut> untrue
18:36:35 <Kogut> still, running openttd with a broken info.nut: 1.1.4 results in game window+console window, trunk - only console window
18:36:39 <loss> where the graphics options?
18:37:04 <Yexo> loss: what "graphic options" are you refering to?
18:37:37 <glx> Kogut: you compiled 1.1.4 yourself ?
18:37:41 <Kogut> no
18:37:45 <Kogut> downloaded
18:37:49 <glx> 32 or 64 ?
18:37:57 <Kogut> 32
18:38:04 <loss> full screen, resolution etc
18:38:06 <Kogut> I will try with fresh openttd
18:38:12 <Kogut> windowed
18:38:18 <Kogut> 1440x900
18:38:40 <planetmaker> loss: in the game options
18:38:47 <loss> kk
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18:39:25 <planetmaker> has our wiki been recommended to you? ;-)
18:39:45 <Yexo> Kogut: just downloaded the 32bit 1.1.4 from openttd,org, added an ai "bug" with empty info.nut, but no console opens
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18:40:17 <Kogut> well, I will try with a fresh openttd
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18:41:33 <LordAro> evening
18:42:19 <LordAro> is it me, or is tt-f not working as it should?
18:42:42 <Rubidium> LordAro: what, isn't it snowing?
18:42:48 <V453000> :D
18:42:51 <LordAro> :)
18:43:09 <LordAro> hmm. my internet as a whole seems to have stopped working
18:43:14 <LordAro> ...but not this :L
18:43:32 <Rubidium> broken DNS resolution?
18:43:50 <LordAro> wouldn't know what that means :P
18:44:03 <LordAro> but ping is returning 'unknown host'
18:44:08 <glx> dns
18:44:27 <Rubidium> DNS resolution = resolving the address you typed to an IP address
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18:44:34 <Rubidium> LordAro: ping works, right?
18:45:07 <LordAro> yes
18:45:09 <Rubidium> but ping fails (as it can't resolve that address to
18:45:33 <LordAro> it would seem so
18:46:10 <Rubidium> LordAro: ;)
18:46:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23437 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:46:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: belarusian - 27 changes by Wowanxm
18:46:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: dutch - 25 changes by habell
18:46:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
18:46:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: italian - 25 changes by lorenzodv
18:46:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: korean - 24 changes by junho2813
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18:49:01 <LordAro_> thats better
18:49:37 <loss> this game hard :o
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18:49:54 <Kogut> @Devs - what happened with location of openttd files? it was in C:\Users\username\documents\openttd (and still should be, according to readme.txt)
18:50:13 <LordAro> loss: no, just more complicated thatyour average fps ;)
18:50:19 <Kogut> @loss - try loooooooong, unrealistic train line hauling coal
18:50:22 <Kogut> or oil
18:51:07 <Kogut>
18:51:09 <MNIM> train lines hauling coal can be really long.
18:51:10 <planetmaker> loss: hard? Most people complain after a few games about too much money too easily ;-)
18:51:16 <Kogut>
18:51:29 <planetmaker> ho, that even exists as guide on the wiki. nice
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18:52:09 <loss> haha
18:52:21 <loss> its hard to get use to it all :P
18:52:23 <Kogut> What happened with location of downloaded newgrfs? it was in C:\Users\username\documents\openttd (and still should be, according to readme.txt) [windows 7]
18:53:13 <Rubidium> Kogut: nothing happened to that. Though... the readme defines quite a few extra locations
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18:53:38 <Rubidium> it primarily depends on the location of the config file
18:53:44 <Wolf01> evenink
18:53:46 <Kogut> well, it is getting ridiculous. I found it
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18:59:23 <Kogut> it is getting funnier and funnier. In fresh install of 1.1.4 broken info.nut is completely ignored
18:59:55 <Yexo> that is exactly as it should be
19:00:13 <Yexo> that is, if you force a console window it should show in there
19:00:35 <Kogut> even in ~ console, even with ai_developer_tools setting
19:00:53 <Yexo> ai_developer_tools is completely irrelevant
19:01:02 <Yexo> the openttd-internal console is not the right one
19:02:01 <Kogut> what is quite confusing. During making of my first AI my battle with info.nut was victorious but way too long
19:02:20 <Yexo> hmm, something does seem to be wrong
19:02:28 <Kogut> mainly due to "and now info.nut compilations will silently fail"
19:03:32 <Kogut> maybe it is hard to change (squirrel etc) but it may be really nice
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19:08:58 <Kogut> and somehow it works now (thanks for info about CONFIG_DEVELOPER it was one of the problems)
19:09:43 <loss> this game is way to confusing, trying to get trains and bus moving
19:09:49 <loss> :(
19:10:07 <Yexo> loss: did you follow the tutorial on the wiki?
19:10:33 <loss> there a wiki page?
19:10:58 <planetmaker> ...
19:11:15 <loss> plantmark I'm a noob ok :p
19:11:21 <planetmaker> 19:39 planetmaker: has our wiki been recommended to you? ;-)
19:11:23 <V453000> you manage to find IRC but not wiki ? :D
19:11:53 <loss> yup :)
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19:13:19 <Terkhen> the path of less effort :)
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19:21:26 <Kogut> oho. I love new superzoom
19:21:49 <Belugas> FEED ME FEED ME!
19:22:01 <planetmaker> cookie for Belugas!
19:22:12 <V453000> it is handful when figuring offsets :p
19:22:31 <planetmaker> though... I rather have Christmas stollen here
19:22:33 <Belugas> BURP
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19:25:20 <Belugas> milk for planetmaker
19:25:30 <Belugas> i stole if from santa for you
19:25:37 <planetmaker> :-O
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19:30:04 <Kogut> poor Yogscast. Playing with old train acceleration model :(
19:31:12 <V453000> some people even consider it better :D :p
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19:32:59 <Kogut> some people prefer goats
19:33:15 <V453000> :d
19:33:35 <Belugas> some others ghosts
19:34:10 <planetmaker> what about ghost goats?
19:34:30 <Kogut> heh, my little sister decided that she will catch Santa Claus
19:35:23 <planetmaker> make sure you got a camera at hand :-)
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19:41:25 <Kogut> my computer decided to celebrate Murphy law day. Inserting headphones will mute sound.
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20:06:58 <Nite_Owl_> frosch123: So if I keep the the drop down list results window small the crash should not happen ?
20:07:18 * Nite_Owl_ too many the's
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20:08:23 <frosch123> ...
20:09:19 <Zuu> Woho, my NoGo now can build a bus stop for player 0. :-)
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20:11:44 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23438 /trunk/ ( config.lib): -Fix [FS#4867]: perform checks for nforenum/grfcodec in configure, including a version check so a proper error can be given when a too old grfcodec or nforenum is used
20:11:49 <Terkhen> hmm... sounds buggy
20:12:49 <planetmaker> for the town?
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20:12:58 <planetmaker> Zuu: can every player use it?
20:13:01 <planetmaker> or what happens?
20:13:21 <Nite_Owl> Darn this flaky internet connection
20:13:28 <Zuu> No, it builds it as company 0. (index being the internal ones)
20:13:49 <Zuu> I just wanted to test that the tutorial script can execute player actions.
20:14:04 <Zuu> So now, that code has been removed again.
20:15:23 <Nite_Owl> Sorry frosch123 - I was referencing the report I made on Flyspray earlier today.
20:15:45 <Nite_Owl> 4871
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20:16:52 <Nite_Owl> I will run some tests.
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20:20:33 <Zuu> In which forum does NoGo script theards belong? OpenTTD Development?
20:21:19 <Yexo> it's been suggested to rename "OpenTTD AIs" to "OpenTTD Scripts", but that's not yet done
20:21:25 <Yexo> feel free to post in there though
20:21:30 <Zuu> Okay
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20:22:51 <frosch123> Nite_Owl: the window resizes itself when it needs more space for the addtional text
20:23:01 <frosch123> if it then becomes higher than the ottd window, it crashes
20:23:13 <frosch123> so, just do not resize the list too high
20:23:56 <planetmaker> Zuu: working on the tutorial?
20:24:21 <Zuu> a bit yes, but I'm unsure about the arcitecture, so I think I'll post what I got along with some questions.
20:24:33 <planetmaker> Zuu: I wonder whether we sh/could start an experiment repo ;-)
20:24:41 <planetmaker> would get me a bit started.
20:24:53 <planetmaker> But I didn't yet do much with scripts or AIs
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20:25:44 <Zuu> planetmaker: That means you have fresh eyes :-)
20:26:07 <planetmaker> :-D
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20:31:56 <Nite_Owl> Test successful and you are correct sir. I was making the window too large for the additional text to expand into and still stay within the boundaries of the overall window. I will keep my windows smaller in the future.
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20:35:23 <planetmaker> Zuu: I'll be very happy to provide them :-)
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20:42:41 <andythenorth> efenink
20:42:56 <V453000> hi andy
20:44:03 <Kogut> hi
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20:50:27 <Zuu> planetmaker: Posted to NoAI forum.
20:50:57 <Zuu> Maybe you can move the posts in the NoGo thread over to that thread?
21:00:02 <Zuu> I'm currently temped to say godbye to save/loading tutorial and go for a simple code layout.
21:10:36 <planetmaker> simple is fine for me :-)
21:10:59 <planetmaker> the tutorial should probably be simple, single steps
21:11:10 <planetmaker> you meant with save/load the memory where one left?
21:14:42 <TrueBrain> maybe also move out the idea of accident recovery vehicles? :)
21:14:51 <TrueBrain> I love the idea, but it is a bit misplaced inside NoGo, in the size if grew
21:17:00 <TrueBrain> if=it :D
21:17:39 <andythenorth> seems like GS could easily become a scope monster :D
21:17:47 <andythenorth> and the all purpose solution to every pony :P
21:18:26 <TrueBrain> :D
21:19:28 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: the idea of the accident recovery vehicle is nice. But IMHO for now a bit out-of-scope. Or maybe not out-of-scope but something for later
21:19:43 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: that is what I mean :)
21:19:50 <TrueBrain> so to make sure it doesnt get lost, maybe move it to its own thread?
21:19:55 <planetmaker> I was just confirming you :-)
21:20:00 <TrueBrain> :D
21:20:21 <andythenorth> it won't get lost :)
21:20:22 <TrueBrain> it really would be an epic eye-candy :D
21:20:26 <planetmaker> maybe a split would be nice
21:20:33 <planetmaker> for that reason
21:20:34 <andythenorth> if it's a good idea it will be remembered, or suggested again
21:20:36 <TrueBrain> well, andythenorth just promised it wont get lost, so :P
21:20:43 <planetmaker> good :p
21:20:50 <TrueBrain> saves me splitting the topic :D
21:20:55 <TrueBrain> I hate that ... forum software .. ugh ..
21:20:58 <andythenorth> unfortunately 'suggested again' also applies to bad ideas :P
21:21:06 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD 3D?!
21:21:17 <planetmaker> no. 4D. with voxels
21:21:31 <planetmaker> 3D would be boring. No time progression. Just full rotation
21:21:47 <planetmaker> I really don't understand 3D obsession ;-)
21:22:09 <TrueBrain> BUT THE WORLD IS 3D?!!?!?!?!??!?!?!!1!!!!!111oneelven
21:22:18 <SpComb> 3.5D
21:22:19 <TrueBrain> I NEED GLASSES TO WATCH MY TV!
21:22:27 <TrueBrain> @kick TrueBrain CAPITALS
21:22:32 <TrueBrain> DorpsGek: you are a pussy
21:22:39 <andythenorth> make it 3D
21:22:48 <TrueBrain> @whoami
21:22:48 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: I don't recognize you.
21:22:50 <TrueBrain> pfffff
21:22:52 <Kogut> well, I prefer ASCII than lame 3D like skyrimi or crysis
21:23:02 <andythenorth> you have to choose three out of the four readily accessible dimensions :P
21:23:20 <Kogut> photo realistic 3D is something that may be acceptable
21:23:49 <andythenorth> Kogut: that's done already
21:23:53 <andythenorth> you missed the patch :P
21:24:14 <andythenorth> it even has weather:
21:25:36 <Rubidium> but openttd only has 1D
21:27:30 <planetmaker> :-)
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21:28:06 <Rubidium> hmm... this is a bit late for me to be working ;)
21:31:24 <Kogut> Yogscast: coal on vacation. And I think that here, this expression is justified: lol
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21:58:36 <Terkhen> good night
22:00:09 * andythenorth has a pony request
22:00:31 <andythenorth> build locks over rapids without bulldozing the rapids first
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22:21:16 <Wolf01> 'night o/
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22:21:48 *** TrueBrain was kicked by DorpsGek (CAPITALS (sorry for the delay))
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22:23:45 <TrueBrain> lol @ glx :)
22:23:46 <TrueBrain> cheers mate :)
22:24:09 <glx> you don't have autojoin, but at least you autojoin on invite
22:24:34 <TrueBrain> only to trusted :)
22:25:58 * Zuu wonders what Tedstery will do if we tell him that OpenTTD is an unpopular vs. popular game... ( @ general forums )
22:26:16 <TrueBrain> Zuu: did you try NoGo-0.1, with GSCompanyMode?
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22:26:24 <Zuu> TrueBrain: Yes
22:26:28 <TrueBrain> did I fix it? :D
22:26:28 <Zuu> And it worked
22:26:31 <TrueBrain> epic :)
22:26:47 <TrueBrain> I tried a few of the script snippets, but that were not real tests .. so I was just hoping the code would be fine :P
22:26:56 <Zuu> Great work
22:27:03 <TrueBrain> stupid oversight :P
22:27:22 <glx> maybe you need a regression test :)
22:27:40 <TrueBrain> nah :P
22:30:54 <planetmaker> g'night
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23:19:16 <Jocke> [22:24:21] <andythenorth> it even has weather: <- There's also a passenger train running on that line, I've gone on it when I've visited my uncle ^^
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23:25:10 <DDR> Trains have been run through stupider conditions... basically, see a history of railroading in British Coloumbia for details. :P
23:25:33 <DDR> Though, to spoil the surprise, just tilt that picture by 60 degrees.
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23:37:19 <Jocke> DDR: Hm? I think you misread what I wrote there
23:37:30 <Jocke> I've been on a train on those tracks, with that snow around
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23:51:02 <DDR> Yeah; it looks like a standard railway in a cold climate.
23:52:09 <DDR> Just in B.C., it's not only in deep snow, it's also on a mountain. And in avalanche country.
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