IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-12-03
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09:33:54 <planetmaker> hm, with about 3 dozen instances of gimp launched simultaneously I can manage to render my computer virtually unresponsive :-P
09:41:34 <planetmaker> yeah, I did exactly that :-)
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10:52:37 <andythenorth> do any of you contribute to wikipedia?
10:52:42 <andythenorth> and if not, what prevents you?
10:53:04 <Terkhen> no, a mixture of laziness and not having anything important to add
10:53:50 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I once started. But I got frustrated very quickly as everything was undone by admins again
10:53:51 <andythenorth> I met a wiki-media employee last night and was arguing about why wikipedia doesn't get contributions
10:54:15 <andythenorth> apparently the two things they want are (1) contributors (2) money
10:54:34 <andythenorth> I said that everyone I knew who contributed had their stuff removed, so they don't contribute again
10:54:51 <planetmaker> i.e. new articles I wrote were trashed with the "not relevant" cireterion
10:56:02 <andythenorth> anyone else got wikipedia experiences?
10:56:32 <Rubidium> well, OpenTTD got almost removed because it was not notable
10:56:58 <Rubidium> so I scholar-googled and added some "sources"
10:58:03 <Rubidium> what is interesting is that the most 'notable' source, is IMO the least reliable source
10:58:22 <Rubidium> (OpenTTD being 8th most active to receive patches)
10:58:36 <Terkhen> my only edits to wikipedia are updating the spanish page of OpenTTD whenever we get a new major version and changing the description
10:59:47 <Rubidium> what annoys me most about wikipedia is that the OpenTTD website (or its source code) is not seen as a reliable source for events that happened
11:00:13 <Terkhen> what else can you use?
11:00:37 <Rubidium> well, you must find some 'third party' that has written something and use that as 'source'
11:00:49 <Rubidium> which is totally stupid
11:01:56 <Terkhen> but that third party article is either based on whatever we have or wrong :P
11:01:57 <planetmaker> which is part of the frustrating experience
11:03:01 <Terkhen> heh, that link illustrates your point completely
11:07:41 <Rubidium> which is more reliable (wikipedia speaking) than a post of Ludde saying what he did
11:07:50 <Rubidium> but I digress and should've been on a shopping run
11:15:29 <andythenorth> the rules for sources seem very stupid
11:19:43 <Wolf01> I updated an old nightly I had on a thumb drive, but also after downloading all the updated open graphics/sounds/music it still complain I miss sprites and in fact I do, what's the problem?
11:24:11 <MNIM> I wish they released the UT2004 source.
11:24:16 <MNIM> now that would be amusing
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11:31:28 <Rubidium> Wolf01: from where did you download the updated files? Also, what base graphics set did you use, and if you used the original one, did you update the files in the 'data' directory as well?
11:32:45 <Wolf01> I use original windows, I dlded the updated ones with the download content menu
11:33:08 <Wolf01> maybe I have old data files all around
11:34:27 <Rubidium> in the openttd nightly directory, are there both a "data" and a "baseset" directory? If so, remove the "data" directory
11:53:35 <TrueBrain> Why does fucking Windows not show when it is still gathering information about a direectory when you hit Properties on a map :(
11:53:38 <TrueBrain> IT MAKES NO SENSE :(
12:16:20 <Alberth> yeah, IT makes little sense indeed.
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12:27:00 <TrueBrain> fact of life about Windows: how ever big your partition is, within a year, it will be too small
12:27:51 <MNIM> you mean the windows partition?
12:28:08 <TrueBrain> no, the linux partition
12:28:29 <MNIM> my linux partition is okay >.>
12:28:40 <TrueBrain> silly questions silly answers ;)
12:29:20 <MNIM> well, partitions generally become too small within a year regardless of OS :P
12:29:32 <TrueBrain> well, I install Windows, and it consumes 12GB
12:29:37 <TrueBrain> within a year it consumes 60GB
12:29:40 <TrueBrain> all I did was install updates
12:29:46 <TrueBrain> I never had that issue with Linux or Mac
12:29:49 <MNIM> unless of course you tend to buy, like me, a HD that is ten times too large at the time
12:30:08 <TrueBrain> so no, it doesn't seem to be regardless of OS :)
12:30:46 <MNIM> my windows partition only uses 25 gb of the 40 I assigned to it 0-0
12:31:34 <MNIM> then again, I rarely update windows, rarely allow it to last more than half a year and all programs are installed on another partition.
12:31:57 <Alberth> Mine uses 0GB :) on the other hand, I had a Linux system with 1.5GB in 1994 :p
12:32:25 <TrueBrain> Windows SBS has a start requirement of 40GB. Last year, they changed that to 60GB ..
12:32:28 <TrueBrain> says enough I am afraid :P
12:32:59 <MNIM> huh. apparently / has only 15 Gb free
12:33:02 <TrueBrain> what annoys me most, is that you cannot see all the space used ...
12:33:18 <TrueBrain> it is impossible to locate 15GB for me on this drive ... it is 'hidden'
12:33:31 <MNIM> which is odd, considering that partition is 50gb :S
12:33:41 <MNIM> truebrain: windows snapshot
12:34:00 <TrueBrain> rootfs 18G 15G 2.8G 85% / <- hihi :D
12:34:26 <MNIM> then again, unlike in windows, I don't install programs on a separate partition in linux
12:34:47 <TrueBrain> I just mount partitions when a map gets too big :P
12:35:01 <Terkhen> both windows and windows programs create an unbelievable amount of garbage
12:35:20 <TrueBrain> problem with windows: once a dll is installed, it will almost certainally remain instaleld
12:35:23 <TrueBrain> and with this winsxs shit
12:35:28 <TrueBrain> that only increased in size
12:35:43 <TrueBrain> the more versions of a dll you install, the more it collects dust there
12:35:56 <Terkhen> I disable system restore and every 3 or 4 months I format the whole thing with a clonezilla image
12:35:56 <TrueBrain> and no sane way to validate if one is still used
12:36:11 <MNIM> ut2004 does eat more than 8GB of space on /
12:36:17 <TrueBrain> these are production servers for customers ... they will not like my formatting it :D
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13:38:15 <Eddi|zuHause> "Schwäbisch Gmünd opens 'Bud Bad'" (public bath named after Bud Spencer)
13:49:23 <andythenorth> so maybe BANDIT could be as few as 10 trucks (or 10 types, with models evolving over time)
13:49:40 <andythenorth> but to allow trailers, I have to duplicate perhaps 6 of them
13:50:20 <planetmaker> would be ok, not?
13:52:09 <andythenorth> it's not that many
13:52:35 * andythenorth is on a quest for best balance of variety / simplicity in the buy menu
13:53:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i need for nml to generate a v8 grf, to test the new articulation callback
13:54:07 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: now we're past 0.2.0 of NML we can switch to generally creating grf v8.
13:54:13 <planetmaker> Patches welcome ;-)
13:54:42 <andythenorth> anybody want to play multiplayer, HEQS, starting 1870-ish?
13:54:47 * andythenorth needs to test trams
13:55:14 <planetmaker> hm... if you have a few days patience, andythenorth, that might make a good RV-only game for #openttdcoop
13:55:29 <andythenorth> what is that please?
13:57:01 <planetmaker> the thing your young son or daughter probably has in over-abundance when it comes to making loud noises at night ;-)
13:57:22 <andythenorth> I don't think it runs in my family :P
13:57:28 <andythenorth> my wife has no patience either
13:57:37 <andythenorth> our house is...shouty
13:57:59 <andythenorth> maybe a game will inspire me to work on FIRS
13:58:26 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/articulation_pattern.txt <-- i'd like to try this out, but without the new articulation callback, i can't fit enough dummy vehicles in
13:59:37 <Eddi|zuHause> variant 1 or variant 2
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14:05:15 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: not sure if that's a devzone bug, but my latest commit doesn't appear in activity
14:08:38 <LordAro> woo, christmas-y forums
14:09:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i _really_ hate this style
14:14:14 <LordAro> how to find palette in gimp... ?
14:15:22 <LordAro> or, how to change greyscale image to rgb?
14:16:06 <planetmaker> LordAro: image -> mode
14:20:30 * andythenorth has forums in vanilla skin
14:27:21 <Eddi|zuHause> "in Valladolid a road was named after an internet vote 'calle de ma falta un tornillo' ('i-am-lacking-a-screw-road'). it leads to a well-known furniture store."
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14:30:14 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: I guess the DevZone orders it by date, and your last commit date is in the past.
14:31:08 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: but it doesn't appear there either
14:35:17 * andythenorth has *never* used the Iron Works in FIRS
14:35:21 <andythenorth> is it pointless?
14:35:51 <Eddi|zuHause> turn it into a factory
14:37:49 <Hirundo> iron works is the early wood+iron=metal industry?
14:39:29 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: the 2nd option in votes was even more stupid IIRC
14:39:40 <planetmaker> Hirundo: iirc, yes
14:58:27 <Hirundo> it seems sensible to me to keep that one in, though I've not played that early games with FIRS
15:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the problem with it is that it stays around after steel mills are available
15:02:24 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r23400 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix (r23393, r23382): Text query window was hidden in numerous cases
15:03:05 <planetmaker> now, that was SLOW
15:03:51 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: better than the one from rubidium yesterday :)
15:04:09 <Alberth> it appreciated the nice round number for a while :)
15:04:18 <planetmaker> how long there, Eddi|zuHause :-)
15:04:33 <planetmaker> Alberth: I'd say at least 10 minutes or so :-)
15:06:25 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: not entirely sure what happened, but it showed a completely empty message
15:06:53 <planetmaker> wrong spelling :-P
15:07:01 <planetmaker> and pronounciation :-P
15:07:36 <Eddi|zuHause> it's spelled pronunciation :)
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15:23:32 <Eddi|zuHause> PS: what exactly are "default vales"? :)
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15:35:00 <Terkhen> I know that I already asked this, but... is there any NewGRF with houses that produce something besides mail and passengers'
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15:38:08 <planetmaker> ECS houses and tourists maybe?
15:38:57 <michi_cc> There are definitely some houses that accept others cargoes, but I'm not sure if anyone coded some houses that produce other cargoes.
15:39:07 <Terkhen> hmm... I have ECS town vector and TTRS, let me check for ECS houses
15:42:43 <Eddi|zuHause> "ECS houses" is just the special houses from TTRS that accept other stuff (fuel station, etc.)
15:43:11 <Eddi|zuHause> TTRS produces tourists if ECS is loaded
15:44:54 * Terkhen wonders if that's true for TTRS nightly r36 too
15:46:02 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the Iron Works is a flawed design
15:46:08 <andythenorth> it *has* to stay around by design
15:46:51 <Terkhen> it doesn't help that those tourist things are really hard to build
15:46:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the "early industries" should probably get the same conversion-efficiency as the later, but a production cap
15:47:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: the regular tourist attraction (tower) only needs a slope
15:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: and IIRC some TTRS houses also accept tourists (statue, hotel)
15:48:05 <Terkhen> thanks, I managed to build the easy one :)
15:48:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but i haven't played with it in ages
15:48:56 <Terkhen> yes, the houses produce tourists :)
15:49:18 <Terkhen> let's see if I can get a tourist subsidy or not
15:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i stopped using TTRS for two reasons: a) the houses are green, and b) they produce too many passengers
15:50:35 <planetmaker> what's wrong with green houses, Eddi|zuHause?
15:51:18 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: looks like a toyland town...
15:51:36 <planetmaker> you've never seen Scandinavia for real, eh?
15:51:40 <Eddi|zuHause> swedish houses is only slightly better in both aspects
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15:57:08 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: production cap - max output, or stop accepting input?
15:57:26 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: max output might be less limiting
15:58:04 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: since i know your dislike of PBI-style acception limits
15:58:48 <andythenorth> I like them in PBI
15:58:59 <andythenorth> I don't like handling the moaning from players
15:59:07 <andythenorth> coop players don't like them destroying routes :P
15:59:30 <andythenorth> same reason we can't shut industries :|
16:00:44 <planetmaker> Maybe we should introduce two economies ;-)
16:00:53 <planetmaker> or more parameters :-P
16:02:18 <andythenorth> we should devise a way to delegate closures to GS
16:02:34 <andythenorth> for both 'no production' and 'historical changes'
16:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but that needs a sane GS<->NewGRF communication interface
16:05:20 <andythenorth> or just make FIRS respect cb 29, 35
16:05:25 <andythenorth> and give the GS control over those
16:05:49 <andythenorth> it's proven that newgrf can't handle industry closure
16:05:55 <andythenorth> so it should stop trying
16:06:01 <andythenorth> I should just remove that code from FIRS
16:06:51 <Terkhen> we should let both control industries, and obey one or the other randomly each time
16:07:32 <andythenorth> for some definition of fun :P
16:07:48 <andythenorth> FIRS has tractors on farms in 1869
16:07:54 <andythenorth> which idiot did that? :o
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16:08:36 <Terkhen> I haven't tested but I'm quite sure that even more things look broken if you start in 1011
16:09:00 <Terkhen> you shouldn't bother that much with stuff like that :P
16:09:11 <Eddi|zuHause> tractors were probably not common before 1950-ish
16:09:30 <Eddi|zuHause> so the graphics could maybe "update" from horses to tractors
16:09:49 <Eddi|zuHause> with some randomisation between 1940 and 1960
16:12:02 <andythenorth> that would require me to learn how the templates work :P
16:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't you (try to) do the same with the sand pit?
16:15:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i need an option for "mv": "leave symlink to new location"
16:16:56 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: doesn't cp do that?
16:17:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: no, only the other way round
16:17:49 <Eddi|zuHause> leave a symlink at the new location to the existing file
16:18:46 <Alberth> ah, mv old new; cp --whatever-options new old ?
16:19:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: that requires remembering what files were copied
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16:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> especially if files were copied only partially, etc.
16:20:52 <Alberth> partial copies?? that does not sound very sane :p
16:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean only half the files were copied, due to errors
16:22:10 <Alberth> I'd do 'rm -r new' then :p
16:22:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but at that point the old files were already deleted
16:22:58 <Eddi|zuHause> the ones that were successfully moved
16:24:04 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I haven't done any date-specific graphics for FIRS yet
16:24:27 <andythenorth> it's far from even being ready to start doing that :|
16:25:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: why? it needs only a handful of varaction2s :)
16:25:29 <andythenorth> bigger tasks that should be done first ;)
16:25:37 <Eddi|zuHause> plus the graphics, of course :)
16:26:55 <Eddi|zuHause> switch(date) { <1940: old gfx; 1940-1960: random switch; >1960: new gfx; }
16:27:29 <andythenorth> I'll draw if you code ;)
16:28:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd end up completely rewriting everything :p
16:28:51 <Pinkbeast> I would love it if the anachronistic cranes and bulldozers vanished and were replaced with first horse traction and then things like steam shovels. :-)
16:29:02 <andythenorth> I have steam shovel graphics
16:29:23 <Pinkbeast> And narrow-gauge industrials with crane tanks. I love crane tanks, and there's about two still running.
16:31:02 <Pinkbeast> Obviously I can't speak for anyone else but you'd make one player happy. :-)
16:31:39 <Pinkbeast> Aha, you're ahead of me already.
16:32:17 <Pinkbeast> But I was thinking of having them as scenery, although it would be odd to have a buildable vehicle also hanging about at industries, I suppose?
16:32:51 <andythenorth> there are HEQS vehicles used as eye candy in lots of sets
16:33:05 * andythenorth is baffled by timetables
16:33:15 <andythenorth> how can my vehicle 'travel for 10 days' ?
16:33:32 <andythenorth> I tried it, and the game doesn't make the vehicle travel slower or faster to cover the distance in 10 days
16:33:37 <Eddi|zuHause> use the 24h-timetable patch :)
16:33:51 <Pinkbeast> It will wait for longer at the next station if it is running fast
16:33:57 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the vehicle travels always max speed, it just waits longer at the station
16:34:09 <Pinkbeast> ... which tends to exacerbate platform congestion, yes
16:34:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it'd be nice to tell vehicles "travel at 80% speed, unless vehicle is late"
16:34:54 <Pinkbeast> Particularly with automatic timetable management, where vehicle A waits because it is early so vehicle B can't get in so vehicle B increases the estimate of the time taken to make the journey so vehicle C waits so...
16:35:12 <andythenorth> locks are stupid
16:35:32 <Pinkbeast> ... and especially with RV operations where vehicles don't manage multiple-tile stations well
16:35:51 <andythenorth> locks are too big, and disproportionately expensive
16:36:03 <Pinkbeast> Canals themselves are entirely made out of money
16:36:08 <andythenorth> I don't suppose anyone will be happy if I make FISH fix base costs
16:36:20 <andythenorth> I'll have to make a stupid standalone grf for this
16:36:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd just divide canal base costs by 4 or 8 or so
16:36:39 <Eddi|zuHause> canals are way too expensive
16:36:51 <andythenorth> a lock is 4x the price of a 6 tile, 70mph bridge
16:36:59 <Pinkbeast> Especially since if you _are_ going to use them it'll likely be in 1820 or so when the game's just started
16:37:01 <andythenorth> it's just a fricking hole in the mud, with water in it
16:37:29 <Alberth> but it costs an insane amount of manual labour to make the hole :)
16:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but in 1820, manual labour is cheap
16:37:48 <andythenorth> Alberth: built any bridges recently? :P
16:37:59 <Pinkbeast> In reality canals are much more expensive than railways but in the game if we're going to have canals they should be relatively viable
16:38:27 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: they build one of the longest bridges on mainland europe here.
16:38:31 <Pinkbeast> In the Rennford game I did build one canal in the days of horse traction and I think it was eventually profitable, but I could only do it once the company was quite large.
16:38:43 <andythenorth> Pinkbeast: no no, it's a train game. The other transport types *should* be punished
16:38:55 <andythenorth> else how will anyone ever see the superiority of trains
16:39:03 <Pinkbeast> andy> yabbut RV pathing does that job without any effort on your part. :-/
16:40:14 <Pinkbeast> timetables> I would love to see a way to say "if you're just waiting at a station because of the timetable and another vehicle wants to get in, start moving" but recognising that the latter part of that has happened looks tricky
16:41:06 <b_jonas> just build large enough stations
16:41:37 <Pinkbeast> jonas> The easiest thing in the world at a city centre terminus. :-)
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16:42:13 <Pinkbeast> Also that would work better if, as previously mentioned, a long line of RV approaching a multi-tile station didn't love to all rush up to the same tile of it and see what happens
16:43:06 <Pinkbeast> Steam Railway #395 has a nice picture of a preserved crane tank actually using the crane :-)
16:46:53 <andythenorth> not possible. no junctions on bridges
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17:06:22 <__ln__> speaking of leipzig, i should arrive there in two hours
17:08:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that's about the time it would take me to get there
17:12:56 <frosch123> so you have 4 hours left until ln arrives at your place :p
17:13:59 <Eddi|zuHause> if he could find it :p
17:14:18 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ found that kinda tricky last time :p
17:18:17 <Pinkbeast> I didn't realise some of you were in that neck of the woods (we go to the WGT in Leipzig)
17:20:58 * andythenorth wonders how to do a base costs grf in nml :P
17:21:10 <andythenorth> probably by following the documentation I guess
17:21:34 <andythenorth> is it really wrong for FISH to adjust canal construction costs?
17:21:40 <frosch123> there are some basecosts grfs on the devzone, maybe some uses nml?
17:21:52 <frosch123> andythenorth: add a switch :p
17:22:36 <frosch123> it should be possible to disable such things to solve conflicts
17:23:29 <andythenorth> I'll add it to FISH trunk
17:23:38 <andythenorth> when someone complains, I'll add a disable parameter :P
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17:26:32 <andythenorth> making canals cheaper also makes it ridiculously cheap to bulldoze sea :P
17:27:14 <andythenorth> I misread the spec
17:27:21 <andythenorth> that happens too often :P
17:28:39 <planetmaker> andythenorth: with the old base costs that might have been. With the new: no. Especially not with newgrf v8 :-P
17:29:21 <planetmaker> andythenorth: and the base cost newgrfs are afaik in NML. But I might err
17:29:37 <planetmaker> but you don't use FISH to change canal building costs, do you?
17:29:47 <andythenorth> I am for my own game right now
17:30:16 <planetmaker> making a default change to canal building costs IMHO is wrong
17:30:20 <frosch123> planetmaker: newgrf authors always mess things up :p
17:30:24 <planetmaker> that's what base cost newgrfs are for
17:30:56 <planetmaker> make a sensible preset which covers also other costs to what you consider a useful cost balance and make that a separate newgrf
17:31:09 <planetmaker> much more versatile
17:31:31 <andythenorth> one more thing to forget to add to the newgrf list :P
17:31:42 <andythenorth> but I can add anything I want in game, so meh
17:31:56 <planetmaker> and if you create yourself a newgrf preset just with the base cost newgrf which changes costs like you need, you can always re-use it
17:32:00 <planetmaker> without programming anything
17:32:13 <planetmaker> it has already a nice, readible gui
17:33:49 <andythenorth> we need drop down menus for the newgrf gui though :P
17:35:16 <planetmaker> just make sure you save that as preset somehow... ;-)
17:35:23 <planetmaker> if you want it back in another game
17:35:34 <planetmaker> might save you many clicks ;-)
17:35:38 <andythenorth> why not just ship it by default in every game?
17:35:39 <frosch123> what... nested classes cannot have static declarations... oh java
17:36:07 <planetmaker> that's what presets are for, andythenorth ;-)
17:36:22 <planetmaker> or how I use them: some stations + cost newgrf pre-configured
17:36:31 <planetmaker> and then the rest is individualized to the map
17:36:32 <Alberth> frosch123: does making it a static class work?
17:38:10 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 41.6666666667
17:38:22 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's no static class :p
17:38:30 <frosch123> i just moved it to the outside class
17:38:45 <frosch123> its non-public anyway
17:38:45 <andythenorth> much as I like the base mod grf (very nice), I'm not convinced there's any justification for canals being 41x more expensive than rail
17:39:00 <Terkhen> historical reasons probably
17:39:16 <Terkhen> it's unplayable, but written in stone :P
17:39:37 <andythenorth> I don't like the idea that to fix that, every player has to (a) know about base mod grf (b) remember to add it *before* starting their game (c) save presets or spend a lot of time clicking
17:39:58 <Eddi|zuHause> suggestion: remove "better roads" algorithm, replace with "town road spacing" setting
17:40:09 <andythenorth> the cost of water construction really adds to the current pointlessness of rivers
17:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause> suggestion-addendum: apply change to grid as well
17:41:11 <Eddi|zuHause> so: town-road-algorithm: {natural, grid}, town-road-spacing: {1-4}
17:41:11 <andythenorth> suggestion-addendum-addendum: have towns leave some tiles unused
17:41:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that'd be the "natural" algorithm with spacing 3
17:42:00 <Pinkbeast> andy> Could FISH complain gently if some base costs mod isn't applied, in the way av8 complains now if you have the old av8-extras in play?
17:42:15 <Alberth> nice winter-ish theme :)
17:42:18 <andythenorth> Pinkbeast: that's kind of annoying rather then helpful, even if well intentioned
17:42:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: apparently my scenario editor was set to generate very high land :)
17:43:06 * andythenorth is not convinced world ends if FISH adjusts base costs
17:43:52 <Pinkbeast> annoying> Well, better annoying than unplayable, and is it too annoying if there's a parameter to say "yes, shut up about base costs now"
17:44:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you mean you want to set the canal base cost in FISH?
17:44:38 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: possibly add a parameter
17:44:41 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I just set it as my desktop background :)
17:45:06 <planetmaker> that's a sparse town, Eddi|zuHause?
17:45:16 <Pinkbeast> FISH adjusts base costs> conceptually dreadful but I'm inclined to agree it's actually the right thing since otherwise a novice player has no hope of using canals
17:45:21 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: a sparser-than-current town
17:46:07 <planetmaker> andythenorth: adjusting single base costs unrelated exactly to the thing provided in a newgrf IMHO is quite wrong conceptually
17:46:18 <planetmaker> That's what cost newgrfs are for. Or it gets really messy
17:46:31 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: cost newgrfs are unweildy...
17:46:50 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: but it's easy to create a "sane costs newgrf"
17:46:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i have to set all 20 parameters to some random value, just because i want to change one cost
17:46:53 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I've been playing the game for (?) years. This is the first time I tried the cost newgrf
17:47:22 <andythenorth> if the water construction costs weren't so utterly wrong I'd agree
17:47:29 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: sounds like an interface problem to me
17:47:29 <planetmaker> there exist a few cost preset newgrfs which each have some focus or another
17:47:29 <andythenorth> but if the game won't fix bugs, I need to
17:47:34 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but it's just as easy to have a parameter at FISH: "lower canal cost: {1, 1/2, 1/4}"
17:47:49 <andythenorth> I shouldn't have to tell every FISH user 'now also download this base cost mod newgrf'
17:47:55 <andythenorth> to fix an ottd bug
17:48:13 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: and just as messy then when you really want to adjust costs generally and have to set a parameter in every frigging newgrf to enable / disable /set back to defaults
17:48:15 <Terkhen> it's not a bug, those are the default TTD costs
17:48:50 <Terkhen> keeping the default games as similar as possible to TTD has drawbacks too :P
17:49:47 <planetmaker> if you add a parameter make sure that the default value is "don't change costs"
17:50:09 <planetmaker> for things you don't define yourself.
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18:45:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23401 /trunk/src/lang/ (korean.txt serbian.txt):
18:45:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by junho2813
18:45:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: serbian - 17 changes by etran
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19:04:19 <andythenorth> canal build cost - 5x rail, or 10x ?
19:04:31 * andythenorth thinks 5x is too generous, 10x still expensive
19:04:36 <andythenorth> but it *is* a ship canal
19:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause> compare with the cheapest rails from nutracks
19:05:19 * andythenorth downloads nutracks
19:05:40 <Eddi|zuHause> (that even makes roads seem pretty expensive)
19:05:49 <andythenorth> that's just silly
19:05:58 <andythenorth> that's < 50% of normal cost
19:05:59 <Eddi|zuHause> we need roadtypes! :)
19:06:10 <Eddi|zuHause> and canaltypes! :p
19:06:15 <TrueBrain> OMG! WINTER HAS COME! NOOO
19:06:28 <andythenorth> maybe we could actually interest peter1138 in watertypes. no crossings, no catenary, reduced hassle :P
19:07:14 <andythenorth> should building canal cost same as the method of 'lower land, flood' ?
19:07:18 <andythenorth> or less? or more?
19:07:56 <andythenorth> lower land removes 2x the volume of material
19:08:23 <Eddi|zuHause> imho it should be less
19:17:34 <andythenorth> cost of removing an aqueduct?
19:18:36 <andythenorth> removing an aqueduct costs 40x as much as removing the same distance train bridge
19:23:34 <andythenorth> now I need to skip some sprites depending on parameter
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19:32:51 <Eddi|zuHause> cost of rail bridges is way too low anyway
19:47:37 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: and there the (cost) madness begins
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20:03:01 <andythenorth> ^ one of about three reasons I never want to run a listed company :P
20:03:58 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
20:18:16 <Terkhen> which of course uses a completely different syntax
20:18:43 <Eddi|zuHause> one should create a convention to name patches .p0.diff and .p1.diff
20:19:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r23402 /trunk/src/ (tilearea.cpp tilearea_type.h): -Add: Function to check if a TileArea contains a tile. (michi_cc)
20:23:27 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: it's clear from the first lines how it wants to be used
20:23:41 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but that means i have to look at the file first
20:23:57 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: as patch has no "autodetection"
20:24:19 <Terkhen> I created a patch script with autodetection while working with my patchpack
20:24:39 <Terkhen> so it is not complicated :P
20:24:44 <planetmaker> he. looking for src/... or a/src ?
20:25:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: but custom-made scripts are almost always worse than builtin functionality
20:25:40 <Alberth> the real fun starts when you are in src :)
20:25:42 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: of course :P
20:27:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that link doesn't seem to have autodetection
20:28:17 <Terkhen> it tries to patch and checks the output
20:29:19 <Alberth> yeah, a good way to make a mess :p
20:29:41 <Terkhen> yes, I'm starting to remember why I abandoned those scripts
20:29:45 <frosch123> if it uses --dry-run, it should be fine
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20:55:21 <LordAro> MInecraft fans: yogscast doing a livestream of OTTD :)
20:58:28 <LordAro> lewis is being a bit stupid :L
20:59:52 <TinoDidriksen> Isn't that what we expect from them?
21:00:00 <LordAro> and wooden bridges! :'(
21:04:28 <LordAro> well-known minecraft youtubers
21:04:56 <Zuu> Oh.. never played minecraft.
21:05:16 <frosch123> are they playing chillpp ?
21:05:41 <LordAro> seems not, but they do seem to have found 32bpp graphics
21:06:08 <LordAro> actually, the population of the towns are red...
21:06:39 <LordAro> some sort of patched version, certainly
21:08:54 <Terkhen> that's definitely rating in town label or one of the updated versions
21:09:50 <frosch123> i think it also has some cargod*st
21:10:09 <frosch123> the gui has some stuff for that
21:11:00 <frosch123> anyway, 3300 people watching ottd
21:11:21 <frosch123> compare that to the only 32000 people watching nasl sc2 finals :p
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21:11:25 <andythenorth> if it was HD, we would get much more players
21:11:29 <Zuu> And they don't even play it well :-)
21:11:43 <Terkhen> and only 100 of them are shouting that the game is boring or worse :P
21:12:12 <LordAro> Terkhen: wouldn't worry about that, yogscast fanboys are extremely stupid
21:12:13 <frosch123> Terkhen: they are also shouting that in the sc2 channels :p
21:12:31 <frosch123> so, i would just judge by number of watchers
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21:12:41 <TrueBrain> so what does lewis have to say about ottd?
21:12:52 <Terkhen> LordAro: I used to check SPUF, I know what kind of guys follow this thing :P
21:13:33 <Terkhen> rage, whine and troll forms
21:13:43 <frosch123> anyway, they noly seem to know two way signals, so all trains mess up :p
21:14:19 <Zuu> That station they are building at at least got some pre signals.
21:14:31 <glx> Terkhen: the usual "don't buy this game" ?
21:14:32 <TrueBrain> should I reinforce our servers, or will they be fine? :P
21:14:54 <LordAro> TB: i wouldn't worry too much :)
21:15:07 <glx> TrueBrain: our servers survived notch playing openttd
21:15:15 <glx> (and telling it on twitter)
21:15:16 <TrueBrain> even slashdot, so no, I am not really worried :P
21:15:47 <glx> a notch tweet can kill a server
21:16:22 <TrueBrain> poor sysops with poor servers :P
21:16:34 <glx> jeb_ has this power too I think
21:16:50 <TrueBrain> at least they can write with roads
21:17:23 <frosch123> yeah, but i wonder whether he does not like autoroad, or whether he does not know about it :p
21:17:28 <LordAro> apart from the fact that he doesn't know about autorail
21:17:45 <Terkhen> yeah, they are going to bankrupt :P
21:17:47 <frosch123> though usually those who do not like autoroad, use hotkeys
21:18:12 <glx> it's really possible to bankrupt ?
21:18:41 <planetmaker> Indeed, I think they haven't discovered it, the auto* features.
21:18:56 <planetmaker> they really need the tutorial goal script :-)
21:19:01 <LordAro> since it's quite probable that they look at the forums, should we leave a message for them? :)
21:19:03 <TrueBrain> at least the auto-signals :P
21:19:03 <peter1138> anyone got a twitch.tv login? :p
21:19:10 <Zuu> Yep, planetmaker shall we make it? :-)
21:19:42 <TrueBrain> you _almost_ have the full power to do so :)
21:19:48 <frosch123> LordAro: i doubt they are looking at our forums
21:20:20 <TrueBrain> best comment so far: CREEPER!
21:20:48 <frosch123> peter1138: are you going to stream ottd now?
21:21:06 <planetmaker> well, it's actually good to watch. Shows the bear traps actually
21:21:33 <LordAro> i have a twitch tv account now, if anyone wants to say anythingg :L
21:21:33 <frosch123> hehe, building road like rails :)
21:23:00 <TrueBrain> omg, peter1138, and THAT is what you come up with?! :P
21:23:10 <Zuu> They need to read the wiki page about hidden ctrl clicks etc. :-p
21:23:15 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yeah, thought the same :p
21:23:43 <peter1138> TrueBrain, sorry :(
21:24:10 <TrueBrain> lot of <message deleted>
21:24:37 <peter1138> what's that music? o_O
21:25:30 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: sounds painful
21:25:37 <andythenorth> can we allow some ships to go *down* river rapids please?
21:26:14 <TrueBrain> lol @ loan amount :)
21:26:56 <glx> but with coal they should be able to repay loan easily
21:27:59 <Rubidium> start game, repay loan, ALT-1
21:29:38 <LordAro> yogscast fans are so innocent :)
21:29:45 <frosch123> we need to filter vehicle names for strong word
21:30:37 <LordAro> we should keep telling them until they notice :)
21:30:47 <frosch123> TrueBrain: now they are teaming up for ddos :p
21:31:28 * Terkhen wonders if they'll manage to get it to 50% of the load we get on april
21:31:39 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I will make sure to get some popcorn, watch them try :)
21:31:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23403 /branches/1.1/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
21:31:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk:
21:31:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: [Network] Do not send chat messages to clients that have not joined yet [FS#4826] (r23337)
21:31:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Assertion could be triggered in case a station was removed just after a vehicle delivered cargo to it [FS#4849] (r23312)
21:31:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Pathfinders go haywire when you build a lock over a ship going perpendicular to the axis of the new lock [FS#4845] (r23284)
21:31:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Prevent against writing data for unknown fonts (r23283)
21:32:00 <glx> haha "chat was cleared by moderator"
21:34:53 <peter1138> those 32bpp sprites look terrible :p
21:35:07 <frosch123> well, you must be a special type of person to volunteer for moderatorship in chat :p
21:35:37 <frosch123> LordAro: you already said that
21:35:59 <LordAro> i'm trying to get their attention :)
21:36:19 <peter1138> frosch123, no special reason for it
21:36:50 <Jocke> The yogscast-people sure are awful at the game..
21:37:15 <TrueBrain> I mostly wonder which patched-up version they are using
21:37:20 <TinoDidriksen> They don't play for skill...they play to make fun comments.
21:37:31 <frosch123> TrueBrain: must be chillpp
21:37:37 <frosch123> it has lots of patches
21:37:58 <TrueBrain> and chillpp is the only one who has it
21:38:04 <TrueBrain> so you must be right there frosch123 :)
21:39:04 <frosch123> Jocke: but we can say now, that nasl sc2 finals have only 10 times more viewer than a random ottd stream :p
21:39:49 <Jocke> I usually dont watch yogscast or any gaming-streaming, I just wanted to see if they knew what they were doing
21:40:23 <Zuu> Is it default to not show the coverage area highlight?
21:40:33 <frosch123> i would assume 80% of ottd players do not know what they are doing :p
21:41:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i would assume that to be more like 98% :)
21:42:06 <TrueBrain> I am sure it is 100%, as nobody agrees on what a player that knows what he is doing looks like :D
21:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> do these people have a lower res stream? i get only random 2s excerpts
21:42:43 <TrueBrain> LordAro: at least mention it is irc.oftc.net :P
21:42:47 <TrueBrain> people will think it is twitter
21:43:04 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: can nogo already manipulate the UI, i.e. open / close windows and move mouse?
21:43:08 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i think it is already the lowest res supported by twitchtv
21:43:20 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: no, and the latter is a bit useless sadly
21:43:25 * LordAro modifies the copied text :)
21:43:35 <frosch123> while i have not figured out yet, when twitchtv allows selecting the quality and when not, this stream is worse than the streams i usually watch
21:43:36 <TrueBrain> your screen will be much different than mine :D
21:44:02 <TrueBrain> open en closing windows by ID should be possible I guess
21:44:14 <LordAro> "It's basically just a rollercoaster tycoon parody!"
21:44:14 <planetmaker> hm, I guess we have no map of where a window and / or its widgets are
21:44:17 <Zuu> For malipulating windows, the hotkey definitions might be useful.
21:44:32 <peter1138> planetmaker, as long as you know the widget id...
21:44:33 <Zuu> Not the actual keys assigned, but that most buttons etc. have an ID.
21:44:42 <planetmaker> peter1138: that I'd know as tutorial
21:45:17 <frosch123> maybe we need an api function to highlight some gui button? make it blink or so :p
21:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yep, that would be quite useful
21:45:51 <frosch123> but those would be singleplayer only api function
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21:45:54 <planetmaker> well, yes. We kinda have that with press / unpress or enable / disable
21:46:06 <Zuu> And MoveCursorTo(windowId, widgetId) or similar.
21:46:13 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I think it is sufficient to know when a window opens, and to have some highlight function
21:46:19 <frosch123> i would let the player move the mouse
21:46:19 <TrueBrain> so when you say: Open window bla
21:46:22 <TrueBrain> you know when it happens
21:46:34 <TrueBrain> I dislike tutorials which open random windows for me, as I can never find them back after the tutorial :D
21:46:41 <planetmaker> yes. An API to highlight a button or widget is sufficient
21:47:00 <Zuu> Makes sense though that the player should move the mouse him/herself.
21:47:02 <Eddi|zuHause> this is useless. i need an ACTUAL internet connection...
21:47:08 <Eddi|zuHause> not this garden hose thingy
21:47:12 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I only have no clue what so ever HOW to make a highlight :D
21:47:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i should sue somebody. they promised 100% coverage with 1Mbit by LAST YEAR!
21:47:47 <Zuu> TrueBrain: Make the button background lighter/darker for a second?
21:47:53 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: possibly by some ^
21:47:56 <Zuu> Try just make it black to begin with :-)
21:47:58 <TrueBrain> the Dutch law has this new thing, where I have to pay UPFRONT a legal fee before I can go defend myself ....
21:48:18 <TrueBrain> so you can sue me, I won't have any money, I cannot defend myself, you will win
21:48:25 <TrueBrain> you got to love twisted laws that get accepted :s
21:48:55 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: the stream sometime pauses for me (but I'm watching a 3.5Mb tv channel at the same time)
21:48:57 <Zuu> But it might make better sense to draw a white border around the button instead as we then don't get into the problem of inverting the text color.
21:49:32 <TrueBrain> we will have to debug that (a lot :))
21:50:18 <frosch123> Zuu: ottd uses recolouring
21:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is this Expresso guy talking about? sounds to me like incoherent babble
21:50:53 <frosch123> for a start you could make it darker like in the coloured newspaper
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21:51:25 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 40.7833333333
21:51:39 <peter1138> "this game looks old"< heh
21:51:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd make it a flashy frame like the error tile highlighting
21:51:44 <LuxorCZ> Everyone watching Lewis, Duncan and Sips playing?
21:51:47 <LordAro> lol, 10 valubles trucks
21:51:59 <LordAro> LuxorCZ: for about 30mins, yes :P
21:52:08 <LuxorCZ> I am watching from the start.
21:52:28 <LuxorCZ> He made alot of mistakes along the way.
21:52:35 <glx> LordAro: see what you've done ;)
21:53:13 <LuxorCZ> Really,alot of these trucks.
21:53:34 <andythenorth> wtf tech levels?
21:53:45 <TrueBrain> we have 4 time as heavy load atm (in hits/s) on our servers, lolz
21:53:49 <planetmaker> yeah. heqs trucks surely are at most tech 1 :-P
21:53:54 * andythenorth should stay out of suggestions forum
21:53:58 <TrueBrain> doesn't mean much, as around this time it is always relative quiet, but still :)
21:54:07 <LuxorCZ> I wonder how long they are going to play.
21:54:29 <planetmaker> till they reached the goal ;-)
21:54:46 <Zuu> What goal are they playing for?
21:54:48 <planetmaker> no no. you exagerate.
21:54:55 * andythenorth tests the !oberhumer rule again
21:55:12 <Murdox> they said a couple of hours and that is up soon
21:55:14 <Lcawte> I hear there is discussion about the yogscast gameplay in here? :P
21:55:19 <LordAro> TrueBrain: the yogscast effect :)
21:55:26 <LuxorCZ> For the next twenty minutes,we are gonna watch my ship.
21:55:33 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I am not really impressed sadly :P
21:55:47 <orudge> hmm, he is making some amount of money, it seems
21:55:56 <orudge> how long has this been going on?
21:55:59 <LordAro> LuxorCZ: your ship? you are not Lewis, are you?
21:56:42 <LuxorCZ> I was saying what he said. Watching the ship is one of the most funny things in OTTD.
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21:56:52 <TrueBrain> did he seriously just mention goatse? Omfg :P
21:57:04 <Lcawte> Its like watching paint dry but on a computer screen :P
21:57:09 <orudge> where else would you see a guy stretch open his anus like that?
21:57:46 <orudge> hmm, this is actually the first time I've heard the OpenMSX music :p
21:57:55 <LuxorCZ> I prefer the old one.
21:58:00 <LordAro> i have had the bad luck of having seen that :L
21:58:08 <frosch123> LordAro: tell him to use the follow vehicle command :p
21:58:09 <orudge> I imagine most people have
21:58:10 <TrueBrain> an estimation of 4000 people visited our website over the normal flow of people we get. Just to throw in some random stats
21:58:13 <Zuu> I prefered when it was silent until they decided to put it on again.
21:58:23 <Zuu> Not that the music is bad, but just annoying strong.
21:58:26 <frosch123> LordAro: ctrl+click onto the topmost icon in vehicle view
21:58:36 <Eddi|zuHause> overall i have heard like 0.3 seconds of the music
21:58:44 <orudge> how do we communicate with them, then?
21:58:47 <LordAro> yay! it got mentioned :)
21:58:50 <LuxorCZ> The chat is still crazy after the long time.
21:58:59 <orudge> oh, there's a chat thing
21:59:02 <LuxorCZ> What did they say about you?
21:59:05 <Lcawte> Lewis from YogsCast wants you in their vent :P
21:59:55 <Lcawte> And apparently, OpenTTD developers, your either nerdy or gansters apparently ^.^
22:00:09 <peter1138> could be nerdy gangsters
22:00:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Age of the Geek!
22:00:48 <LuxorCZ> 3162 people watching a slow boat.
22:01:13 *** jacobus52999 has joined #openttd
22:01:24 <__ln__> i was surprised about the leipzig hbf
22:01:48 *** chillcore has joined #openttd
22:02:10 <chillcore> Was lurking and had to come over :)
22:02:11 <Lcawte> I wish I was playing on the stream with them, you'd just see this new company take over...
22:02:29 <LuxorCZ> I wish I played with them.
22:02:48 *** Eraclea has joined #openttd
22:03:02 <LuxorCZ> This is far nicer place than the chat at stream.
22:03:24 <frosch123> you can say that about any chat on any stream :p
22:03:31 <TrueBrain> oeh, we are almost at 50% of what slashdot caused last time (hits/s)
22:03:42 <Lcawte> Well, this stream is rather good, its getting the site a lot more hits and the game some more new players... even if its only short lived :P
22:03:47 <glx> (and we survived slashdot)
22:04:13 <frosch123> (with the old server)
22:04:15 <orudge> We have a somewhat beefier server now than then, too
22:04:23 <peter1138> he should ctrl-click on the boat's view button :)
22:04:30 <LuxorCZ> Who was that talking? I haven't understood.
22:04:37 <TrueBrain> if you don't know slashdot, you are a bad nerd :)
22:04:40 <LuxorCZ> Cause of that music..
22:04:54 <frosch123> peter1138: lordaro tried to tell him, but said "eye-icon". there is no eye-icon in opengfx :p
22:05:21 <Jocke> TrueBrain: slashdot aint that great
22:05:27 <LordAro> i've changed my clipboard-text since then :)
22:05:41 <peter1138> slashdot is poor, yes
22:05:58 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> [...] there is no eye-icon in opengfx :p <- i always said that changing the icons like that is bad
22:06:24 <chillcore> Cute how the one dude goes *dududududu* on the beat of the music from time to time. :P
22:06:25 <TrueBrain> Jocke: many many many many many many many webservers claim otherwise :P
22:06:45 <Eddi|zuHause> changing the wrench icon to a gear icon
22:06:51 <Eddi|zuHause> changing the ? icon to an i icon
22:07:05 <Eddi|zuHause> it only adds to confusion when describing stuff
22:07:38 <Jocke> TrueBrain: it's greatly overrated and really not that good, no matter what anyone says
22:08:01 <TrueBrain> I am guessing that is your opinion, and you are free to have it. I am only afraid many do not share it with you :)
22:08:22 <LuxorCZ> Now they are playing SOI music. My life is complete.
22:08:30 <Jocke> Well, alot of people does share it with me TrueBrain ;)
22:08:36 <LuxorCZ> OTTD + Yogscast + SOI Music.
22:08:46 <Rubidium> I think there is a difference between quality (of content) and quantity of "followers"
22:08:47 <LuxorCZ> It made the ship moving epic.
22:08:54 <Jocke> Also, there's different kinds of 'nerds'
22:09:29 <Rubidium> the following of slashdot is what is the fear of many (small) hosters
22:09:35 <Jocke> There's those who use a computer to read stuff online who considers themselves to be nerds, then there's those who knows how to do stuff
22:09:37 <LuxorCZ> Thing that made yogscast alot famous.
22:09:42 <LordAro> peter1138: their main youtube minecraft series
22:10:00 <TrueBrain> Jocke: however, the slashdot effect is very real :)
22:10:04 <TrueBrain> and not to be taken as a joke
22:11:12 <LordAro> OTTD should have this music
22:11:43 <frosch123> it will get boring within hours
22:12:12 <frosch123> game music must be suited to be played looped over and over all day
22:12:42 <frosch123> most importantly it has to exclude vocals for that :)
22:13:19 <LordAro> i never think these things through :)
22:13:27 <frosch123> LordAro: it's not that we want to shout at them about their playing style :p
22:13:42 <TrueBrain> some quickly give Xaroth the magic link to the cast :P
22:13:53 <TrueBrain> damn, you guys are getting slow :D:D
22:13:54 <chillcore> LordAro Kill music and play MP3? Besides the cheesy midi fits the game well IMHO.
22:14:05 <Xaroth> almost forgot i had this window open..
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22:14:35 <Xaroth> right, i'm actually pausing apollo18 for this
22:14:37 <Xaroth> so this better be good
22:14:43 <LuxorCZ> I hope I will get mentioned. Somewhy I want to.
22:14:48 <Xaroth> lol @ the fail track layout :o
22:14:50 <frosch123> TrueBrain: more than fb?
22:15:01 <TrueBrain> frosch123: not sure, will be a tie
22:15:21 <chillcore> I think they is lurking here too ... lol
22:15:43 <glx> Xaroth: blue and yellow are AIs
22:15:58 * Jocke goes back to building a droid-brain
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22:17:22 <Xaroth> well red's rails is also missing a few.. er.. optimizations
22:17:41 <Xaroth> and why aren't they testing nogo, TrueBrain! :o
22:17:48 <chillcore> My patchpack for sure ... I hope it does not crash on them though :P
22:17:51 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: ugh, please no
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22:18:09 <TrueBrain> hahaha; we do not chat here :D
22:18:15 <LordAro> chillcore: you must be so proud :)
22:18:20 <chillcore> Xarath: Nogo not yet included.
22:18:26 <LuxorCZ> I guess they mentioned this IRC once mor.e
22:18:26 <LordAro> TrueBrain: we're all bots :)
22:18:42 <TrueBrain> chillcore: and I think NoGo is not good enough yet to be included in your pack ;)
22:18:47 <TrueBrain> it changes on daily base :)
22:18:48 <chillcore> pretty awesome for sure and lot of publicity ofcourse.
22:18:54 <DorpsGek> you need a key to talk here?
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22:19:10 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r23404 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add: Tilematrix structure (michi_cc).
22:19:22 <glx> TrueBrain: NoGo is progressively added to trunk anyway
22:19:32 <chillcore> TrueBrian: I agree and I must admit I have not yet tested much.
22:19:39 <TrueBrain> glx: parts of it :)
22:19:45 <TrueBrain> chillcore: no worries :)
22:19:56 <TrueBrain> I have enough testers atm :)
22:20:46 <chillcore> TrueBrain: Cool. If it makes trunk it will be in when I restart anyway. ;)
22:20:57 <TrueBrain> still lots to do :)
22:21:00 <LordAro> well, that was interesting :)
22:21:09 <LuxorCZ> I guess they ended. :(
22:21:29 <chillcore> It is a big patch and touches everything. yeah I imagine.
22:21:29 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r23405 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Keep a matrix of cargos accepted by houses for each town (michi_cc).
22:21:50 <chillcore> Aaaaaaaah they stopped.
22:22:00 <TrueBrain> so a peak of 50hits/s, not bad for a livecast tbh
22:22:27 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r23406 /trunk/src/date.cpp: -Change: Run the monthly subsidy loop after cargo acceptance has been calculated.
22:22:41 <LordAro> TrueBrain: see? if i hadn't told you, you wouldn't know why :)
22:22:49 <TrueBrain> LordAro: very true, tnx for that :)
22:23:05 <TrueBrain> and I wanted to stress-test the latest setup for a while now
22:23:08 <TrueBrain> nothing beats a live-test
22:23:12 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r23407 /trunk/src/ (saveload/town_sl.cpp town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Keep a bitmap of all cargos accepted by towns.
22:23:27 <TrueBrain> and I am content with the new setup, the CPU didn't even increase :P
22:23:32 *** jacobus52999 has left #openttd
22:23:58 <TrueBrain> so OpenTTD is ready for the next slashdot and notch-effect combined :P :)
22:24:58 <TrueBrain> guess it is the perfect time to thank OVH.de for hosting us :D
22:25:55 * chillcore is glad the PP did not crash on them. :)
22:26:23 <TrueBrain> a nice compliment there for you chillcore ;)
22:26:27 <TrueBrain> no obvious bugs and issues :)
22:26:36 <chillcore> still they should have tested trunk ... or the stable RC
22:26:47 <chillcore> Thank you TrueBrain
22:27:06 <TrueBrain> its not easy to combine a shitload of patches, and make them work together :)
22:27:10 <TrueBrain> often underrated tbh
22:27:36 <Xaroth> ugh, HoN, right, back to apollo18
22:27:36 <chillcore> Ofcourse also due the high quality of the patches chosen ;)
22:28:48 <chillcore> And indeed underrated sometimes. I took me over a year an many many hours to get this far.
22:30:07 <Xaroth> __ln__: at least you're using irssi, so the fail isn't -that- bad..
22:31:56 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by terkhen :: r23408 trunk/src/subsidy.cpp (2011-12-03 22:26:30 UTC)
22:31:57 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Feature: Allow to create subsidies for any combination of source and destination types.
22:31:58 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Change: Do not rely in TownEffects for awarding subsidies.
22:32:00 <LordAro> :O not fixed subsidies??
22:32:05 <TrueBrain> at least DorpsGek is more available
22:32:10 <__ln__> das letzte sendung von gottschalk oder etw?
22:32:21 <TrueBrain> __ln__: wrong language; please change your language and try again :D
22:32:32 <Xaroth> __ln__: you missed a /win somewhere :P
22:32:42 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r23408 /trunk/src/subsidy.cpp:
22:32:42 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Feature: Allow to create subsidies for any combination of source and destination types.
22:32:42 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Change: Do not rely in TownEffects for awarding subsidies.
22:32:45 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: well, he wanted to quit half a year ago already...
22:33:16 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: he wanted to quit 10 years ago
22:33:27 <Terkhen> oh, I have to edit the specs
22:34:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: glx * r23409 /trunk/projects/ (10 files): -Change: reorder files in langs project
22:34:44 * Terkhen closes FS#954 before anyone else does it first :P
22:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: didn't he once quit and come back?
22:38:15 <frosch123> yes, but that is 20 years ago
22:38:39 <frosch123> he wanted to quit when he became 50 because the show is meant for age < 50
22:38:46 <frosch123> but i think now he is 60 :p
22:39:24 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't the average ZDF viewer like 65? :p
22:39:46 <frosch123> i thought they are watching ard?
22:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause> allegedly, ZDF is the worst
22:40:31 <frosch123> (1987–1992; 1994–2011) <- according to wiki
22:44:39 <chillcore> Anyone knows if yogscast records its live sessions? I only got to see the end of the game and if I understood correctly they played for an hour or so ...
22:44:53 <Eddi|zuHause> age statistic i could find: privates: min: Pro 7: 35, max: Sat 1: 51, public: main: ZDF, ARD: 60, 3rd: min: MDR, WDR: 61, max: BR: 64
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22:45:19 <LordAro> chillcore: i think twitch tv keeps archives
22:45:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i think he just split :p
22:45:41 <Zuu> Yep, I found the stream in the archive. Didn't try it though.
22:45:59 <LordAro> i think he just came back :P
22:46:52 <chillcore> Zuu: Do you have a link perhaps?
22:46:57 <Eddi|zuHause> complementing that statistic: the average german is 44, the average tv viewer 51
22:50:16 <chillcore> Zuu: Yeah thats the one I still have open ... they is playing something else now.
22:50:38 <chillcore> LordAro: ... Linkie to archives perhaps?
22:50:59 <LordAro> chillcore: i'm looking.. :)
22:51:03 <Zuu> Sorry, I mistook it for being an archive but it clearly says that it is a live stream. :-(
22:51:34 <Zuu> Maybe LordAro who has an account there can figure out if they have archives for the members.
22:52:22 <chillcore> Zuu: No problem. I just killed the livestream anyway ... hack and slash ... was fun when I was younger.
22:55:33 <LordAro> hmm, i can see links to archives, but they don't seem to do anything
22:56:43 <Eddi|zuHause> that just redirects me to the live cast
22:57:09 <LordAro> that's what i thought
22:57:32 <chillcore> Yes but still the same stream as before. and Eddi|zuHause was faster. :)
22:58:16 <LordAro> i think perhaps it is the same stream, and they haven't 'split' it
22:58:28 <LordAro> so, come back tomorrow and it'll be there
22:59:52 <Zuu> LOL, someone joined the stream and asked for a link to download OpenTTD just to find out that it didn't look like that kill-game that they were currently playing :-p
23:00:28 <LordAro> you're still watching? :P
23:00:31 <chillcore> Ah Ok. Will bookmark the link then. Thank you for searching and the info LordAro.
23:00:53 <appe> tip on any fun industry grf?
23:01:46 <Zuu> appe: OpenGFX+ Industries?
23:03:09 <chillcore> appe: FIRS or ECS Vectors? Or try them all? <- but not all at once though :P
23:06:23 <appe> im trying the ECS wood now.
23:08:50 <chillcore> the ECS vectors can be combined with the ECS vectors, for a more complete experience, without problems ... but it is a lot harder to play with then with FIRS. I have not yet tried OpenGFX+ industries. First finish my FIRS game ...
23:09:28 <appe> i usually play rather small maps, wich complicates using lots of ECS vectors at the same time
23:11:26 <chillcore> True ... as long as you are having fun all is good. ;)
23:19:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:27:58 * Rubidium wonders whether there are monthly commit stats of OpenTTD somewhere; I got the feeling there are some months that are generally more quiet than others regarding the amount of development getting done
23:29:31 <chillcore> sweet dreams Terkhen.
23:30:49 <chillcore> Rubidium: I somehow have the impression that it depends the weather ... the colder the more :)
23:30:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: it does seem to be massively increasing over the last month :)
23:32:49 <LordAro> with the code analyst set to 'commits'
23:34:46 <LordAro> seems most commits in a month was 433, in january 2007
23:38:56 <chillcore> 80% C++, 10% C. almost there .... except that is still 29257 lines of C. ;)
23:39:41 * LordAro thinks that Truebrain shouldn't be 'retired' in the credits
23:39:58 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I very much am :) But tnx ;)
23:40:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23411 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Add: Company infrastructure counts for rail.
23:40:24 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23410 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Add: A window with a detailed overview over the infrastructure of a company.
23:40:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23412 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Add: Company infrastructure counts for road.
23:40:28 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23413 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Add: Company infrastructure counts for canals.
23:40:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23414 /trunk/src/ (saveload/company_sl.cpp station_cmd.cpp waypoint_cmd.cpp): -Add: Company infrastructure counts for stations/airports.
23:40:53 <LordAro> ah! a wild commit appeared!
23:40:54 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23415 /trunk/src/ (21 files in 5 dirs): -Feature: Infrastructure maintenance costs.
23:40:59 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23416 /trunk/ (20 files in 6 dirs): -Add: [NoAI] API for querying infrastructure costs.
23:42:21 <LordAro> so, that's YAIM in trunk, i guess
23:43:00 <Rubidium> so september and october are generally the quiet months
23:43:45 <TrueBrain> haha, nice Rubidium :)
23:44:13 <LordAro> gah, why can chrome not view pdfs??
23:44:41 <chillcore> TrueBrain: /me agrees with LordAro little a bit. Anyway I do understand your point of view. Anyway I updated the wiki's readmes with your nick as per readme. ;)
23:45:24 <LordAro> Jurgis: my version cannot (17.0.950.0)
23:47:44 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23417 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix: wrong argument to printf
23:48:39 <appe> the ecs wood vector only seems to start the game with one forest
23:49:41 <chillcore> appe: try a (slightly) bigger map and set the number of industries higher in the options.
23:50:46 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: now your efforts are free to finish YACD :p
23:51:00 <Rubidium> those stats might be skewed due to changed working procedures, e.g. I looked at the whole repository so branches are accounted for
23:51:11 <Rubidium> and those branches we don't use anymore
23:52:44 <michi_cc> Yeah, local branches in DVCS lead to less "stupid, revert/fix/redo" commits in SVN :)
23:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause> 2007/2008 is hard to distinguish
23:53:21 <appe> chillcore: how do i set the number of industries?
23:53:32 * chillcore thinks YACD and CargoDist should be joined somehow before merge in trunk. Both have their advantages.
23:55:09 <chillcore> appe: when you click new game ... number of industries? Click on the high/low/none part. I do not have OpenTTD open right now.
23:55:23 <chillcore> same as you choose number of towns ;)
23:56:34 <Eddi|zuHause> (due to the other text not having shadow, i presume)
23:57:48 <TrueBrain> shadow effects playing tricks on you?
23:57:50 <TrueBrain> check with paint :)
23:58:35 <chillcore> Also ... michi_cc: woot. I am really tempted to play a clean trunk game these days. (and restart my PP too)
23:59:27 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: well, you just released a "as good as final" version of your PP, so starting over now is best :)
23:59:55 <chillcore> rivers, zoom, infrastructure and everything else.
continue to next day ⏵